TheAgitator.com
Discount Logic
Monday, June 28th, 2004I’m a little puzzled by the Wal-Mart sex discrimination suit. Seems to me there are three assumptions the left takes with respect to the retailer, and to the business world in general:
A) Wal-Mart is a ruthless mega-corp that will do virtually anything to cut costs.
B) Women, particularly women executives, make a fraction of the salaries men do.
C) Women are just as competent, experienced and eager to assume executive roles in retail as men.
Now, given those three assumptions, we’re to conclude that:
D) Wal-Mart knowingly promotes costlier men to executive positions than less costly women who are just as eager to take those positions, and who are equally or better qualified.
I’m no labor economist. But to me, it just doesn’t add up.
You have never been around the ‘good ol boy network” have you?
Logic or business has nothing to do with it.
Good point, chief. Just goes to show how little the anti-corporate/anti-capitalism crowd understands economics. I mean, even if mysogeny and sexism are existent in the halls of WalMartdom, why in god’s name would they matter more than the al-ighty-ollar? And if it’s ultimately true, and the boys would rather promote a man than the best person for the job, then it just goes to show that Wal-Mart isn’t as ruthlessly capitalistic as the anti-capitalists would have us believe.
Um, which might it be?
I’ve been around the “good old boy” network quite a bit, Lee. And the fact of the matter is, as women begin to saturate the marketplace with equally competent skill levels, the good ol boy network is suffering bigtime—because it is becoming more and more financially risky to ignore economics in liu of sexist tendencies.
The firm I work in is a great example. We’re swamped with work; when I started here 4 years ago, there was 1 women working here. The principles aren’t exactly mysogenists or good old boys, but that was the market. Now, we need people, the best people, and half of our firm is now female. It has everything to do with capitalism.
The point is that, in the free market, the good ol’ boy network system can work only as long as women are prevented from even offering the skills to compete. But the cultural barriers that prevented women from being educated and trained in equally competent manners have been broken. And so the “good ol boy” network is now in direct conflict with capitalism, with profits, with MONEY. These days, for someone to stick to their good ol boy guns is to make a bad business decision. And with industry and other markets going overseas, the competition is now even greater. This is not to say that the good ol boy network has disappeared, but simply, that it no longer is a sound business model. And given that WalMart is a wildly successful corporation, and is obsessively capitalistic, it just doesn’t make sense for them.
These kind of cut and dry arguments do not really explain anything, but just reframe the issue to crop out the point. I doubt there is some overall discrimination plan at Walmart that governs their promotions. I think it is more “wink wink” and subversive then that. I also bet the difference in wage between male and female employees at whatever level we are talking about pales in comparison to the companies profits. Perhaps they are selling cheep to make more (the men that is)
The real argument is that if these women were so highly qualified and so underpaid, why did they not go work somewhere that appreciated them? It should have only taken a few before Walmart would have revised its practices (especially if they all went to Target or Kmart or whatever).
Evan Williams,
Perhaps your work would be able to better cope with the work load if you were not on the Agitator all day.
what would you do if you were at work and a coworker said to you, or you overheard someone say “a woman’s place is in the home.” i am very grateful this kind of thinking is outside my realm of experience. one more thing to be thankful for! michelle
WalMart does more than one stupid thing that costs them more money -
I worked as a cashier for a year at WalMart during college - in my law classes we studied their legal mistakes. They repeatedly ignore lawsuits, even wrongful-death type suits, and the juries give plaintiffs millions of dollars than what’s justified because of it.
Of course, our store took in more than $1.5 million a week to help cover the awards.
It may not add up, but the simple fact is that it is reality.
My mom worked for Walmart, and was always complaining bout just this same issue.
Thanks for the advice. I haven’t had a day off in a month. I’m finally between projects. Commenting on the Agitator keeps me sane.
There’s really nothing they, or anyone else can do about Wal-Mart. Isn’t Wal-Mart a bigger producer than every country but ten or something? I heard the five kids (not kids, but his kids) that own Wal-Mart just passed or are soon to pass Gates as the five richest people in the world? Can anyone confirm?
Wal-Mart isn’t just a big corporation, they are a country. With the money they have, they probably have hired a military force to defend their headquarters. They pay them $7 an hour, make them wear those blue, red and green vests depending on rank and duty (only this time their bullet proof and somewhat camo), and only hire men to be officers. They have secret (customer) service agents on staff to protect the family. I’ve even heard they are writing their own constitution and creating their own currency (called Wal-Bucks).
Low prices are just the beginning - remember that slogan. Now, they’re taking over. NNNNOOOOOOO!!!! Everything now is too little, too late.
Sometimes 2+2=5.
I used to work at WalMart while I was in college, and so did my wife.
There were several women in management at the stores we had involvement with. They were all older women whose kids were grown and could work the long hours and bizarre shifts that WalMart makes its trainees work.
Recently I worked in management in a Call Center. There were many women that we tried to promote to management, good quality individuals. However, new managers, male or female get crappy shifts. Seniority rules. Many of these women turned down the management jobs because of their kids (understandable) OR (get this, absolutley true) because their husbands TOLD them they wouldn’t let them work second or third shift hours.
So, in many cases we end up promoting single males, who jump at the chance rather than complaining about the hours. Not always our first choices but they still got the job.
And those women that turned down the jobs? Yeah, they could be overheard in the breakrooms talking about how management is a good ole boy network and how she should have gotten that job.
So, sometimes the numbers may say that there are more men then women in management, but that does NOT necessarily mean that a company is discriminating against anyone.
Wal-Bucks, huh? I imagine they’d have that price-slashing happy face on one side, and a portrait of Sam Walton on the other.
Not sure what color Wal-Bucks would be. . . red would be too reminiscent of Target. Maybe blue, since that wouldn’t clash too badly with the happy face.
Now where would the gingerbread man go? He’s a Wal-Mart spokesman, right? I may be confusing my mega-discount mascots. . .
It has always been my experience that the “good ole boy” network is far less powerful than the “bottom line.” (Not a Vegas Revue).
I think a lot of people are missing the point that even if A, B, C, and D were true Walmart would be entitled to hire and fire on the basis of any criteria it’s owners chose. You play into the hands of the collectivists when you entertain these objections as potentially valid. Even if they were all true they wouldn’t add up to a valid reason to force Walmart to do anything.
So, sometimes the numbers may say that there are more men then women in management, but that does NOT necessarily mean that a company is discriminating against anyone.
Fine, but if they are discriminating on the basis of gender or race or whatever it’s still properly a private matter between them and their employees.
John, i disagree.
A company that benefits from the protection of a state to which i am forced to pay taxes, can damn well play fair. Since companies have shown time and again that they can not be trusted to play fair, legislation has been enacted. Sweet.
If the women agreed to work those jobs for the pay they received, they don’t have a leg to stand on, morally.
wade, you’re an idiot. What the f*ck is playing fair? Paying everyone the exact same wage?
Walmart is ruthless from a buyer/seller standpoint, why would anyone think that they would be ethical in other aspects of their business?
“A company that benefits from the protection of a state to which i am forced to pay taxes, can damn well play fair.”
Fair to who? And you don’t think that Walmart is paying 100x the taxes you do in that state every year just in sales taxes? They cover their own protection just fine. Fair to one is not necessarily fair to all. And if you do not provide business to Walmart or have stock(in other cases), who are you to have an opinion that matters? When did it become your company? Many things have been legislated on that were not necessary. Try 3/4 of our laws.
Wal-Mart class action
Steve Malanga of the Manhattan Institute has an op-ed in today’s Wall Street Journal on last week’s certification of a sex discrimination class action against the world’s largest retailer. “To read the individual stories of the original plaintiffs of t…
The ole boy network does not hang out at Wal-Mart. It is not like Enron or say the White House?
John, my thooughts exactly. What kind of screwed up socialist society are we becoming that we tell companies how to run their businesses? As if the fed govt is an expert on running a tight ship. Pffft.
I am a good ole boy! Where is my membership card? Where is my cush, overpaid job I got at the expense of more deserving women? Where is my preferential treatment because I am ‘in network’? Dammit, Where is my good ole boy check!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This bullshit just isn’t fair! In fact, I know lots of good ole boys and we haven’t gotten a damn thing!
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