TheAgitator.com
“Sailors Aren’t Soldiers”
Saturday, April 24th, 2004Cato’s Chris Preble debates, and destroys, Rep. Charles Rangel on CNNfn.
Topic: the draft.
I’ll have more on the draft later (I think my next Fox column may be on conscription). Frankly, the momentum the idea is generating depresses me.
But the news out of this debate is the slur Rep. Rangel casts on the Navy. Both Rangel and Preble are introduced on the program as veterans, Rangel from the army, Preble from the Navy. The anchor begins the segment by saying she’s looking for a forward a draft debate “between two former soldiers.”
Rangel immediately corrects her by saying, with noted condescention, “Sailors are not soldiers. And I doubt the Navy has much to do with the war in Iraq”
Later in the debate, Rangel again disparages the Navy by saying of Preble, “…it’s fine for a Navy officer to say that…”
I’m guessing the family of Petty Officer 3rd Class Fernando A. Mendezaceves, 27, would disagree with Rep. Rangel’s assessment of Navy valor. Mendazaceves was killed on April 6, 2004 during combat operations in the Al-Anbar province of Iraq. At least 10 other coalition deaths served in the Navies of their respective countries. I’m sure the 37,000 Navy men who died in World War II would beg to differ with Rangel, too. Or the 1600 that died in Vietnam. Or the 500 who died in Korea.
Correct me if I’m overreacting here, but isn’t it awfully shady for a sitting member of the U.S. Congress to disparage the men and women of the Navy this way? Particularly in wartime? This wasn’t off-the-cuff between-branch rivalry talking. It’s pretty obvious to me that Rangel simply doesn’t have much respect for the Navy.
It’s wonderful that Rep. Rangel served his country, and that he made the Army the branch where he’d perform that service. But plenty of Navy men and women have died in service of the country. And it’s disgusting that a man of Rep. Rangel’s rank and position would undermine the sacrifice those men and women made on national television.
Here’s Rangel’s official web page. Drop him a note if you like.
Rangel always gets a pass on this shit. Don’t worry, Sean Hannity will facilitate his “rehabilitation”. Sean will have Rangel on for a “tough” square-off on the radio where Sean yells ant him Rangel doesn’t back down a bit. Later that same day Rangel will appear with Sean on TV. Sean will say something like “With all due respect congressman, and I do respect you, isn’t it an insult blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah?”
On this queue Rangel will soften his stance a hair, offer a qualified non-apology, and all will be well.
Write to Rangel? He’ll take that as positive reinforcement. The man knows exactly what he’s doing.
Has it occurred to anyone that this whole draft debate may just be a clever ploy to make military pay increases more palatable to taxpayers and opponents?
Believe it or not, I think Rangel is using it, in part, as an anti-war strategy. The theory of such advocates is that if all citizens face the draft war will be less likely.
JTK –
That’s exactly what he’s doing, though I do think the ugly class warfare aspect of his argument is genuine (I want more white people dying).
But it won’t work. Give Congress more tax dollars and they’ll find new social programs. Give them more troops, and they’ll find more wars to fight.
Volunteer service is one of the limited tools individuals have to keep the nations military actions in check. Congress undermines that when they coerce the citizenry into to fighting. People continuing to volunteer for their country in a time of war shows that at some level there is support for the action. When the flow of new recruits slows considerably it indicates that even the most ardent of supporters no longer see a particular military action of being worthy of their sacrifice. Granted this tool is not as powerful today as it was 60 years ago when the peace time army was not capable of sustaining any level of decisive engagement without the help of the citizen soldier. A large standing army and the ability of congress to suspend people from leaving when there contractual time is up negates a draft until it is absolutely necessary to replace dead or wounded soldiers.
I think most of this was covered in the draft topic. JTK is exactly right … it’s all just so that we’ll be all the more afraid to ever go to war.
“That’s exactly what he’s doing, though I do think the ugly class warfare aspect of his argument is genuine (I want more white people dying).”
He genuinely thinks it helps him politically, and he’s probably right about that. I’d be wary of calling anything else about him genuine.
>I want more white people dying
If you’d actually studied the matter instead of just shooting your mouth off, you’d know that “white people” are actually overrepresented among front line combat units and among casualties. While minorities are overrepresented in the military as a whole, they tend to be more concentrated in support units.
Today’s irony. Wonder what Rangel would have to say about this:
Saturday, April 24, 2004
BAGHDAD â Two U.S. sailors were killed and four were wounded Saturday in apparent homicide boat bombings near an oil platform off Iraq’s Persian Gulf coast.
Stormy, if you’d actually read for context before shooting your mouth off, you’d see that I was paraphrasing Rangel, not stating my own opinion.
No explanation needed Radley, the rest of us understood, and stormy just looks like a jackass.
Rangel forgets that Navy Hospital Corpsmen provide all medical care for the Marines in the field.
Rangel can kiss my ex-Corpsman ass. And the asses of my friends who served with the Marines during the first Gulf War, Somalia, Gulf War II: Return of the Son, etc.
“It’s wonderful that Rep. Rangel served his country,…”
Well actually to hear Rangel tell it he didn’t join to “serve his country”, he joined because it was the best deal government was offering him. He feels he was effectively forced to enlist. I don’t see how this is more “service” than any other job.
>Stormy, if you’d actually read for
>context before shooting your mouth
>off, you’d see that I was paraphrasing
>Rangel, not stating my own opinion.
Well, I apologize then, since I misuderstood you.
However, you sentence is rather confusing, since you use “I” twice in the same sentence, the first I referring to you (”I do think the ugly class warfare aspect of his argument is genuine”) and the second time referring indirectly to Rangel (”I want more white people dying”), with nothing to indicate a change of antecedents.
Not to be a grammar bitch, Sormy, but I think it’s clear that the “I think more white people should be dying” bit is clearly parenthetic to “his argument” not to Radley’s first person use of “I.”
M. Smith,
If I could have,I would have e-mailed you. FMF Corpsman were ALWAYS afforded a place of honor at any Marine Corps function I have ever attended. They always will.
For once, I agree with Charlie Rengle, “sailors are not soldiers.”
The statistics on the navy men who were killed should be compared with the army and Marine losses. And please, remove the navy Corpsmen numbers from the navy list and add them to the Marines, where they belong.
Thank you Doc Smith, and Welcome Home.
Mike Farrell
1st Sgt of Marines
(retired)
Once again, Rangel shows bias where there should be none.
I’m going to have to agree with Mike Farrell. Some in the Navy can honestly be considered soldiers, but, as a general rule, Rangel is right. Sailors aren’t soldiers, they are sailors. That’s nothing to be ashamed of and is just as valuable as what a soldier does.
However, Rangel did mean it in a disparaging way and should be chastised. He is discounting the unique hardships a sailor faces because he isn’t “in the trenches.” I suggest Rangel spends a few months at sea to see what the Navy is really about.
And, for those of you who aren’t regulars, I spent six years as a Navy Corpsman…all of it with the Marines. Mike is right about one other thing, I am always given tremendous respect and affection from any current or former Marine I ever meet. For that, I thank all Marines.
Sempre Fi, Chris
meek
In Case You Needed Proof…
That Charlie Rangel is a Jackass… But the news out of this debate is the slur Rep. Rangel casts on the Navy. Both Rangel and Preble are introduced on the program as veterans, Rangel from the army, Preble from the Navy. The anchor begins the segment b…
Corpsman Up!! Guess Rangel has no idea what that means.
I don’t know about that Preble “destroy”ed Rangel. I think he did not go far enough to state that for a government to seize the lives of individuals and command them to join the army is about the most unamerican policy ever. If they can conscript them into the Army why not conscript them into coal mining? That is a dangerous job that is done almost exclusively by poor people. He also did not pin Rangel on the whole draft=lower benefits issue or a possible crowding out effect for drafties taking spots that would have previously been taken by a volunteer.
Is it just me or does it sound like Rangel whines all the time?
Are you ready for the junta?
Kevin Drum’s “Political Animal” column has become quite popular with many on the left recently. He’s a good writer, and he sometimes has insightful comments, but he has absolutely no clue how the military works. It was obvious during the…
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