Afternoon Links

Monday, October 29th, 2012

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59 Responses to “Afternoon Links”

  1. #1 |  BamBam | 

    Moral of the story: never call 911. The State happened to the family and their son is dead.

  2. #2 |  Xenocles | 

    Anyone else think it’s odd that Michigan fans skew Republican when the University (and its city) are so far left?

  3. #3 |  Mattocracy | 

    I’m kinda suprised that WWE, MMA, and monster truck fans skew left.

  4. #4 |  el coronado | 

    Of course the WWE, MMA & monster trucks skew left. They’re made-up “sports” which can be easily simulated in a video game. Perfect for the typical leftwing thought process. All you need is over-the-top announcers and comic book-style ‘good guys’ vs. ‘bad guys’. So *of course* they skew left: that’s what dumbshits _do_. (still not sure about the WNBA. can’t imagine anybody actually admitting they watch it.)

    The big surprise was the LPGA skewing right. Didn’t see that one coming, must admit.

  5. #5 |  omar | 

    They’re made-up “sports” which can be easily simulated in a video game. Perfect for the typical leftwing thought process.

    Care to elaborate on this?

  6. #6 |  Mario | 

    I worked as a bartender in a small neighborhood bar about 20 years ago, and we had the cops come in one evening looking for illegal slot machines. (Thankfully, we had a band that night, so ours was locked in the back room.) Of course, years ago, the police didn’t have all of the fun toys they have today. Somehow, four of them managed to control a “desperate” and “potentially dangerous” situation armed with nothing but their pistols, which stayed holstered the entire time.

    Where will be be 20 years from now?

  7. #7 |  Bad Medicine | 

    Of course Florida didn’t just send a cease-and-desist, or notify them they were breaking the law. If they had, the state wouldn’t be able to confiscate the restaurant and all assets of all involved and take those trips to Vegas themselves.

  8. #8 |  Chris C. | 

    Many areas of this country are getting to the point at which anything that is not mandatory is forbidden.

  9. #9 |  Mattocracy | 

    Thanks coronado. So basically, liberals like dumb shit therefore they like wrestling and monster trucks. What brilliant and unbiased insite into the minds of millions of people who you don’t even know.

  10. #10 |  Yizmo Gizmo | 

    •What your favorite sport says about your politics.

    Also, the team you root for is telling, and the way you
    root. I find left-wingers rarely wear baseball Jerseys, and stuff Miller lite and chicken wings down their mullets while they offer support for da home teme.
    “Where will be be 20 years from now?”
    Badged or incarcerated/deceased, perhaps?

  11. #11 |  Helmut O' Hooligan | 

    “Evidently the Florida Division of Alcoholic Beverages and Tobacco disagreed. It expressed this disagreement by sending its agents, assisted by black-masked local police officers “in full riot gear” with “weapons drawn,” to raid a Texas Hold ‘Em tournament at Louie’s Grill and Sports Bar in Largo the Saturday before last.”

    A great balance of police terrorism and utter stupidity. Were the poker players known to be armed with long rifles and lying in wait for revenuers? What a joke! This black mask thing is getting ridiculous. What are you hiding from, officer. Accountability or embarrassment?

    Shit, before to long patrol officers are going to be wearing balaclavas.

  12. #12 |  Miroker | 

    Hey EC, I think someone should have made a different choice 9 months before you were put here to come up with idiotic statements,

  13. #13 |  nigmalg | 

    Poker Raid…

    Considering it is Florida, they might want to put the brakes on the retirement home bingo games. I wouldn’t want grandma to get arrested by a riot officer.

  14. #14 |  nigmalg | 

    Many areas of this country are getting to the point at which anything that is not mandatory is forbidden.

    Brilliant way of putting it! We’re losing control of our lives at a rapid rate.

  15. #15 |  Helmut O' Hooligan | 

    RE: Georgia case…
    “There is nobody in there with him. There is nobody at risk except himself. You just give it time, just wait,” Pekor said.

    Exactly! And if he did indeed have his back to negotiators, how in the hell can this be justified? Get people out of his way, set up a perimeter and give the kid space.

    If there are no hostages, the people in charge of these situations should be crisis counselors and/or medical professionals, not police. People with mental illnesses see the police as bad news, and this incident proves that this isn’t just because they are delusional. The aggressive nature of many officers is guaranteed to escalate a situation involving a “behavioral emergency,” as it is called in EMS.

    But at least the neighbors are beginning to see the big picture.

  16. #16 |  Helmut O' Hooligan | 

    “If you do not approve of government surveillance of foreign communications, or you think the law lends itself to abuse, then make your voice heard on Election Day.”

    LOL! Wow, how inspiring Mr. Posner. So we get to choose between two people who share your fetish for the strong executive. I think Mr. Posner is trying to get himself a job in the next administration so he can write briefs to justify whatever crackdowns might be coming next.

  17. #17 |  Verbum Vincet | 

    Bam Bam: You’re 100% correct. I’ve been surprised by some of the people I’ve spoken to who’ve learned this valuable lesson. Upper-crusty types who, to look at them, would seem to be the first to pick up the phone…

    Chris C. and Nigmalg: I don’t mean this in a sarcastic manner at all, but I’ve been hearing this for years. Yes, Police militarization is getting worse, has been getting worse, and will continue to do so. When will it reach critical mass? Will we have fascism or freedom? Something’s got to give. What do you think the answer is, and what are you prepared to do? At every turn, all I hear is talk and more talk. When do we some action, en masse?

    I’m currently fighting the police state in court (I can’t elaborate at this point) but I have very, very little hope. The odds are overwhelmingly stacked in favor of the state and its money. We know that – what’s next? Is it even safe to talk about other courses of action? I know I hesitate before I type these days, after being terrorized by DHS/FBI…

  18. #18 |  Cynical in New York | 

    RE: Sports

    With the recent report that most MLB players skew right I’m surprised how to the center MLB is on that chart.

  19. #19 |  John222 | 

    Re: poker raid- just a thought, what about all the sales tax revenue generated by sales to players during the games? Wouldn’t the state be guilty of profiting from illegal activity?

  20. #20 |  Athena | 

    #4: MMA is a made-up sport? Seriously. What do you think they were watching at the original Olympics? Women’s Fencing?

    I suppose I may be the exception to the rule, but I am a rabid MMA fan, and I am even more fervently politically-active, leaning just left of traditional libertarianism, so I suppose that part is fairly accurate.

    That said, I buy that there is low voter turnout among the average MMA fans. We’re talking about a significant percentage of fickle and shallow “fans” who will boo when two evenly-matched competitors are grappling for more than 10 seconds. I would not even begin to speculate as to their political skew, however. I find “none” would be the most accurate answer.

  21. #21 |  Xenocles | 

    @ #18-

    If that defense doesn’t work for asset forfeiture, I doubt it holds for sales tax revenue.

  22. #22 |  el coronado | 

    Athena – “MMA is a made-up sport?” “Etc”

    1) Well……yeah. Did MMA, in its current UFC/Strikeforce/Whatever configuration *exist* 20 years ago? No? Then how did the ‘sport’ come into being? Did someone….um….kinda make it up?

    2) While I don’t endorse or reject *your* estimation of the MMA fan stew, the subject in question was National Journals article featuring a political skew in the fans of various spectator ‘sports’; a chart “based on an analysis of over 200,000 interviews conducted by Scarborough Research”.

  23. #23 |  Eric | 

    I suspect that some of the reason for the blue collar sports (WWE, MMA, etc.) skewing left is that there is a decent union population among those fans.

    And I suspect that the WNBA is so far left because a large number of those people saying it was their favorite sport would be either feminists or lesbians. The league has at times both resisted and embraced its gay fanbase.

  24. #24 |  Weird Willy | 

    Wait a minute. Upon finding her son despondent and emotionally agitated, “Lisa Messina called the cops…hoping an officer would come talk to him.” Not a suicide prevention hotline or crisis line, but the cops? Isn’t that a bit like calling a psychotically aggressive taxidermist to your home because your son needs help with his social studies homework? What meaningful assistance could a professional bully have offered to her son? I might understand her making the ignorant mistake of calling the police if she sought aid of a sort that fell anywhere within the nominal purview of police work, but this just makes no sense at all.

  25. #25 |  greenback | 

    I’m guessing MLB’s popularity is a function of geography. Baseball is probably most popular in the northeast and not so popular in the south.

  26. #26 |  PermaLurker | 

    @Weird Willy . Most people I’ve run into who haven’t run into cops have a strange notion (probably gathered from TV cop shows) about cops being caring professional individuals. I’ve never suffered from this delusion, even before I started reading the Agitator. I live in a small town and know about 80% of the cops personally…either went to high school with them or relatives of people I went to high school with…and almost universally they were/are the jock thugs who thought the highest form of entertainment imaginable was stuffing a freshman into a locker. I would NEVER call them.

  27. #27 |  EH | 

    Check out Weird Willy and his, “I told you so,” to nobody in particular.

  28. #28 |  Brandon | 

    #21, Do you think football was ordained by God? Every sport is made up.

  29. #29 |  Chris Mallory | 

    Or the Monster Truck and wrestling fans could live in areas where to vote in local elections you have to be a registered Democrat.

  30. #30 |  curiosa | 

    EH, I don’t notice anyone saying “I told you so.” Do you have a link to Weird Willy’s website or something?

  31. #31 |  Bob | 

    Poker raid:

    “to play for money or other valuable thing at any game whatever, whether heretofore prohibited or not.”

    Well, that’s not all encompassing at all! I guess Lottos, Bingo games, and, since you don’t have to ante at all, even Sweepstakes are illegal in Florida.

    Shit, I could even argue that Credit Cards that offer rewards qualify as “gambling” with that wording.

  32. #32 |  awp | 

    “The Times says the Nutz Poker League raid followed “a months-long undercover investigation dubbed Operation Cracked Aces.” It took months of undercover work to build a case against a poker league that operates openly and advertises its rules on its website?”

    Upset that we are in a police state?


    happy that we have an incompetent police state?

  33. #33 |  a_random_guy | 

    The thing about the politics vs. sports is: I think they have a pretty strange definition of left-vs-right. Judging from the people I know, they’ve defined the “right” as the social/religious conservatives.

    US politics seems to play only along the top edge of the political compass. Everyone is for big government; the only question is whether you want to be on the progressive side or the religious-conservative side.

  34. #34 |  demize! | 

    Sweet Jesus these goons snipered a distraught 16 year old kid, responded in an inappropriate heavy handed manor and used the exact tactical opposite of appropriate hostage/talk down protocol and Sheriff Klanfuck thinks its all just Jim dandy. Is this correct?

  35. #35 |  Dante | 

    So we all agree:

    There is no situation, no matter how dire, that will be improved by calling the police. Never, ever, ever call the police. Unless you are already dead, then OK.

  36. #36 |  Mike T | 

    Eric Posner, the law professor last seen arguing that the First Amendment is overrated, now argues that executive power should trump the Fourth Amendment.

    The apple doesn’t fall far from the tree does it? More proof for why we should pass a federal law forcibly disbanding all law schools for at least two generations.

  37. #37 |  Michael B. | 

    I hate sports. Fascistic, tribalistic nonsense. Large sporting events vaguely remind me of black and white footage from the Nuremberg rally.

  38. #38 |  Burgers Allday | 

    p-cide Omaha:

  39. #39 |  Let's Be Free | 

    Golfers as a general rule are independent minded and individualistic, which probably explains the President’s appeal to the left. They view Obama as unique.

  40. #40 |  liberranter | 

    “We thought that they would (be) experts in being able to diffuse the situation. And that was not what happened. Instead of the fire being put out, they brought gasoline,” Nick Messina said.

    Apparently Lisa and Nick Messina have only recently rejoined (what passes for) the civilized world, having lived either on another planet or in a cave for the last several years. Otherwise, assuming that both are of at least average intelligence, they would have known better than to even CONSIDER requesting the services of armed psychopaths to talk their suicidal son out of killing himself (I mean, c’mon folks, seriously – chew on that for a second).

    RIP, Andrew. My condolences on your choice of parents. It’s a wonder that either one of them survived beyond the age you were when you were murdered.

  41. #41 |  Len | 

    Concerning the background of the sherrif; how on Earth does his possibly racist background tie in to the killing of this kid? It’s a non sequitur.

  42. #42 |  omar | 

    RIP, Andrew. My condolences on your choice of parents. It’s a wonder that either one of them survived beyond the age you were when you were murdered.

    This is a pretty vile thing to say to someone who just lost their kid.

  43. #43 |  Helmut O' Hooligan | 

    #39 Omar:

    Seconded Omar!

    Hey liberranter, not everyone reads The Agitator or other sources that continuously document the routine abuses of law enforcement. Plenty of people out there would have made the same assumption as these parents. Most people don’t think the police are armed psychopaths. And while they are armed, most officers are certainly not psychopaths. Don’t overuse the word please. Hell, with calloused, glib comments like that, people might confuse YOU for a psychopath. Feel free to read “Without Conscience” by Dr. Robert Hare in order to develop a more informed view of who is and isn’t a psychopath.

    Very few people would consider themselves to be libertarians or anarchists. And if libertarians conduct themselves like you just did, this is unlikely to change. Maybe you don’t care. Maybe it’s all about purity tests and stone cold logic for you. Fine. Go live on an island or some gated community that will keep the “rabble” (read: all non-believers) out.

    But most of us want to engage with other people and persuade them of the wisdom of making this society more libertarian. And it will be really hard to do that if people associate the freedom movement with dicks.

  44. #44 |  Brandon | 

    I hate sports. Fascistic, tribalistic nonsense. Large sporting events vaguely remind me of black and white footage from the Nuremberg rally.

    That’s not a ridiculous irrational generalization at all.

  45. #45 |  el coronado | 

    While Omar & Helmut are right in that Liberranter’s comment is off-the-charts lowlife – ragging on parents who tried to get help for their suicidal son, and that “help” ended up killing him. Stay classy, Libberranter! – if this blog has taught us anything, it’s that cops ARE psychopaths.

    The vast (but ever-shrinking) majority of the public still sees cops as good guys – that’s why Andrew’s parents called them for help: they thought the good guys “trained for situations like that” would be able to talk some sense into the boy & peacefully defuse the situation – but for those who pay attention, or read this blog & others like it, it’s crystal clear that’s not the case. From rampant militarization to ever-more blatant brutality disguised as ‘procedures for officer safety’ to killing the first dog they see….cops are psychopaths. Simple as that. And as for the standard blanket “defense” (LOL) that ‘most cops aren’t psychopathic’ (“Most NYPD cops aren’t planning to murder and eat random women! Just a few bad apples!”)….how do you know ‘most of ’em are OK’? How exactly do you KNOW this??

    Consider just 2 things: 1) a semi-reasonable estimate would be that for every one story of police brutality/misconduct/corruption that gets reported, there are probably at least 500 that *don’t* get reported. So what we know of cop thuggery is _actually about .02%_ of what’s really out there. 2) all these ‘non-psychotic’ cops: they all still adhere to the Blue Wall of Silence Code of Omerta, don’t they? Meaning even if *they* didn’t actually gun down the dog/innocent bystander/unarmed guy and then drop a throw-down piece on the body, they know damn well the shooter cop did. Yet they almost always say…..nothing. Then they help delete the on-car video. What do you call someone who covers for & hides the crimes of a psychopath? No….not “an enabler”….

    The word in question….. the *Legal Concept* here is “accomplice.”

  46. #46 |  Rick H. | 

    US politics seems to play only along the top edge of the political compass. Everyone is for big government; the only question is whether you want to be on the progressive side or the religious-conservative side.

    Too true. That’s why “left” and “right” mean very little to me. The majority has an unshakeable faith in government as the solution to all problems, and in many cases, they agree on what those problems are (i.e., prohibition of everything they don’t personally enjoy). When the “left” is pro-war, and the “right” is for massive bailouts and entitlements, who could take such a paradigm seriously?

    Re: the sports chart, I couldn’t find any mention of boxing. Maybe it’s been subsumed into the MMA category.

  47. #47 |  Helmut O' Hooligan | 

    El Coranado: “And as for the standard blanket “defense” (LOL) that ‘most cops aren’t psychopathic’ (“Most NYPD cops aren’t planning to murder and eat random women! Just a few bad apples!”)….how do you know ‘most of ‘em are OK’? How exactly do you KNOW this??”

    I’m not sure arguing with you is worth it anymore (LOL), but here goes (LOL).

    First, do you know what a pyschopath is? Can you provide me with a standard definition that would be widely accepted by, say, psychologists who actually study real psychopaths. I noticed in your post you used the terms psychopath/psychopathic, but at one point also you also said “non-pyschotic.” This suggests to me that you may not be familiar with the difference. Psychosis is not the same as psychopathy. A person with psychosis would be out of touch with reality. A psychopath is not delusional, but instead has a total lack of empathy for others.

    Though psychopathy is more prevalent in our society than we would like to think, the aforementioned Dr. Hare (perhaps the most recognized current expert on psychopathy) estimates that about 3-4% of the population may qualify as a psychopath. There are places where psychopathic personalities congregate: prisons, for one. And, I have also come to the conclusion, unfortunately, that psychopathy is probably more present in policing than some other areas. I also think that psychopathic personalities–based on the actual commonly accepted cluster of signs/symptoms–are overrepresented in politics and in the ranks of corporate managers.

    With this being said, I stand by my statement that most cops are probably not psychopaths. However, some people–in their institutional roles–are essentially trained to act like psychopaths (cops who participate in cover-ups, corporate executives who rationalize horrific actions based on the profit motive). This is the larger problem. And as for your reference to the NYPD cannibal guy, I never, ever made the “bad apples claim,” so kindly tear down that strawman.

  48. #48 |  David | 

    I figured the MMA/wrestling/monster truck fans skew left because they also skew young.

  49. #49 |  el coronado | 

    Kinda splitting hairs there, aintcha, Helmut? So your position, if I can wade through your muddled ‘logic’, seems to be that cops “aren’t psychopaths”, they just a) tend to be more psychopathic than the general population. (“…I have come to the conclusion that psychopathy is more present in policing than in some other areas.”)(since the only other ‘area’ you mention is “prisons”, this is hardly a ringing endorsement for cop mental health status, is it. Not exactly the HIGHEST of bars, eh?) And, elsewhere, cops AREN’T psychopaths, but they ARE “essentially trained to act like psychopaths.” *Completely* different, see? Never mind Hannah Arendt! Ignore that woman behind the curtain!!

    Your words, Hoss, not mine. It is said that Beria wept as he filled out the lists of those to be executed in Stalin’s purges. Do those tears mean Beria wasn’t a psychopath? Just a sensitive, gentle soul who ruthlessly ordered & arranged for the deaths of millions? Oh! Well then! Problem solved!

    Notwithstanding your remarkably blatant attempt to have it both ways, I think we’ll leave the final word on this to the late great Douglas Adams. “If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, we have to at least consider the possibility that we have a small aquatic bird of the family anatidae on our hands.” Same with psycho cops, say I. (LOL)

  50. #50 |  Roho | 


    * They responded to a suicidal teen with a tank, sniper, and riot shields
    * They cut the line, on which his father was attempting to talk him down, and replaced it with someone shouting belligerent orders
    * They ignored pleas from both sides to put the father back on
    * They shot him while he was facing away from him
    * The chief then struts about how it was a ‘Good shoot’, and how it was all the victim’s fault. Bonus points for trotting out the “Our officers have families they want to go home to.” Implication as usual, better 100 dead innocents than 1 dead cop.

    Only thing missing was for them to tie poor Andrew’s body to the hood of a squad car afterward.

  51. #51 |  demize! | 

    @boyd @coronado I believe you will have a higher representation of psycopathy within law enforcement as you do in politics because the nature of the fields will draw those predisposed to authoritarianism and narcissism. The clever ones go into politics, the average intelligence ones want to become cops. It draws those who want to impose their will on others, need a ready made identity, like the idea of having authoritah basically. I studied this personality type when I was in the military, which is rife with them. Im no academic so this is just my take. However I would be happy to accept any grants bestowed upon me for future research.

  52. #52 |  Roho | 

    On second reading, maybe the sheriff was misquoted:

    “Had that officer not taken the action, there is a good chance one of those negotiators that was there who also has a family, also would not be going home before supper,” Garrison said.

    Perfectly understandable in that light. The sniper had to act fast to resolve the situation before dinner got cold.

  53. #53 |  liberranter | 

    Omar, Helmut, et al.:

    While I’ll cop (no pun intended here) to my comments about the Messinas as being less than, shall we say, couth, I still stand firmly by my assertion that they are as responsible for their son’s death as the cop who put the fatal shot into him. For any Amerikan parent in this day and age –an age of rampant, systematic, and in-your-face violence practiced by those who claim to “protect and serve”– to put their child in harm’s way by forcing an encounter with these predatory creatures is the very epitome of reckless endangerment. In an ideal universe in which justice and reason prevailed (unlike the one in which we are unfortunate enough to now find ourselves), the Messinas, their obvious and understandable grief at their loss notwithstanding, would still be held to answer for the reckless negligence that caused their son’s unnecessary death in the first place, just as the cowardly and psychotic cop who callously and recklessly fired the fatal shot would held to answer for murder (or at the very least, manslaughter). But of course there’s a greater chance of Andrew Messina arising from the grave than of any kind of justice emerging from this tragedy.

    What is it going to take, people? How many more innocents (especially innocent children) are going to die at the hands of the neo-Waffen SS before 1) so-called “adults” wake up to reality and cure their rectal-cranial inversion and 2) those who have already awakened decided that ENOUGH IS FINALLY ENOUGH? Dare we hope that maybe, just maybe, this incident can be the proverbial spark that ignites the haystack, the catalyst for that change? Let us hope so. I don’t EVER want to read or hear about another Andrew Messina again!

  54. #54 |  Jay | 

    libberranter: Thanks for showing us that you’re still an asshole.

  55. #55 |  Andrew | 

    A visit to their site shows Louie’s Grill and Sports Bar has been in business for over 28 years…paying taxes and supporting jobs. The decision to secretly investigate, then abruptly raid a legitimate place of business and charge it’s owner with a felony over a nonviolent, debatable violation of the law shows the hopelessly disconnected mindset of a career government leech. All of their weapons and cute little masks were funded by the sweat, risk, and capital of others…so they could put their bravado on display to remind everyone who’s in charge, like a bunch of cowards.

  56. #56 |  Personanongrata | 

    Mask-clad cops in riot gear raid a free, openly advertised poker tournament in Florida.

    “We don’t understand what’s the law,” one league member complained. “The league’s been going on for years, and all of a sudden it’s against the law?”

    This is what happens when tyranny is afoot the tryants and their lackeys make up the rules as they go along.

  57. #57 |  Linda | 

    The last link (about the teenager killed by the sniper) is very upsetting. I wonder how things might have turned out had they let him speak to his father again? Very sad.

  58. #58 |  liberranter | 

    Hey, Jay: you were getting lonely out there and I thought you needed some company.

  59. #59 |  markm | 

    Doesn’t Georgia have a law against assisting a suicide?