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	<title>Comments on: A Boy in a Dress</title>
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	<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2012/08/08/a-boy-in-a-dress/</link>
	<description>It rankles me when somebody tries to tell somebody what to do.</description>
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		<title>By: Aaron Fown</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2012/08/08/a-boy-in-a-dress/comment-page-1/#comment-3684931</link>
		<dc:creator>Aaron Fown</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Aug 2012 02:08:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=25985#comment-3684931</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The only reason we men wear pants rather than dresses, kilts, robes or tunics is that the most effective military forces of the past thousand years used mounted infantry, and there are few things more awkward than riding a horse in a dress. 

However, I have not in my life ridden a horse for any purpose besides fun, and few of us ride motorcycles. By connecting the whole &quot;Open or closed at the crotch&quot; feature to gender, we are sadly forgoing a whole spectrum of cool fashion choices, many of which would be of great benefit to men, as they require far fewer motions in order to complete a whole host of daily bodily functions.

Give the boy a plaid dress and tell him to have fun. More power to them.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The only reason we men wear pants rather than dresses, kilts, robes or tunics is that the most effective military forces of the past thousand years used mounted infantry, and there are few things more awkward than riding a horse in a dress. </p>
<p>However, I have not in my life ridden a horse for any purpose besides fun, and few of us ride motorcycles. By connecting the whole &#8220;Open or closed at the crotch&#8221; feature to gender, we are sadly forgoing a whole spectrum of cool fashion choices, many of which would be of great benefit to men, as they require far fewer motions in order to complete a whole host of daily bodily functions.</p>
<p>Give the boy a plaid dress and tell him to have fun. More power to them.</p>
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		<title>By: Katie</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2012/08/08/a-boy-in-a-dress/comment-page-1/#comment-3678498</link>
		<dc:creator>Katie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Aug 2012 14:45:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=25985#comment-3678498</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@Sertorius -- I homeschool. My kids draw on their faces, wear pajamas, and I help them make costumes to wear. They are kids. Why not? Right now my 2 year old has a face covered in green marker. My daughter has a kit of little gel pens and stencils to draw colorful tattoos on her skin. I&#039;ve never had a person make a cruel comment. I did get a few questions after the 2 year old put red paint in her ear, but it was a bit disturbing-looking and was hard to clean out.

Many little boys like dresses and pink just as much as the next kid. Who cares? Seriously people, if the kid wears it and doesn&#039;t like the reaction... then he won&#039;t wear it. If he likes wearing it despite the reaction.. then he&#039;s decided. Why does it have to be something the parents step in on? It sounds to me that you are making it all about the comfort of the school, the parents... anyone but the kid. I&#039;m not sure I would have emailed all of the parents, but you wouldn&#039;t believe how often people assume the parents want other parents to step in and encourage the child to not be weird. So maybe this was their nice way of saying &quot;back off&quot;. 

I was a tomboy. I have a degree in science. I played sports, I like construction vehicles. I was awesome at math. I also liked sparkly unicorns and skirts that twirled when I spun around. Why is that ok for girls, but not boys? 

I don&#039;t really get what &quot;proper&quot; girl behavior and boy behavior is I guess. I dressed like my favorite AD&amp;D character for the middle school Halloween dance. :D Should my parents have worried and put their foot down and made sure I wore a proper fairy slut costume?

Anyway, I find this conversation all rather surprising. I guess libertarian non-coercion is only for adults, huh? Repeat after me, &quot;It&#039;s for his own good...&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Sertorius &#8212; I homeschool. My kids draw on their faces, wear pajamas, and I help them make costumes to wear. They are kids. Why not? Right now my 2 year old has a face covered in green marker. My daughter has a kit of little gel pens and stencils to draw colorful tattoos on her skin. I&#8217;ve never had a person make a cruel comment. I did get a few questions after the 2 year old put red paint in her ear, but it was a bit disturbing-looking and was hard to clean out.</p>
<p>Many little boys like dresses and pink just as much as the next kid. Who cares? Seriously people, if the kid wears it and doesn&#8217;t like the reaction&#8230; then he won&#8217;t wear it. If he likes wearing it despite the reaction.. then he&#8217;s decided. Why does it have to be something the parents step in on? It sounds to me that you are making it all about the comfort of the school, the parents&#8230; anyone but the kid. I&#8217;m not sure I would have emailed all of the parents, but you wouldn&#8217;t believe how often people assume the parents want other parents to step in and encourage the child to not be weird. So maybe this was their nice way of saying &#8220;back off&#8221;. </p>
<p>I was a tomboy. I have a degree in science. I played sports, I like construction vehicles. I was awesome at math. I also liked sparkly unicorns and skirts that twirled when I spun around. Why is that ok for girls, but not boys? </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t really get what &#8220;proper&#8221; girl behavior and boy behavior is I guess. I dressed like my favorite AD&amp;D character for the middle school Halloween dance. :D Should my parents have worried and put their foot down and made sure I wore a proper fairy slut costume?</p>
<p>Anyway, I find this conversation all rather surprising. I guess libertarian non-coercion is only for adults, huh? Repeat after me, &#8220;It&#8217;s for his own good&#8230;&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Kat</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2012/08/08/a-boy-in-a-dress/comment-page-1/#comment-3678287</link>
		<dc:creator>Kat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Aug 2012 13:44:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=25985#comment-3678287</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I wish I could say I was surprised by the reactions I&#039;m reading here, but I guess the issue of gender identity is still that divisive, even among libertarians.

To Maggie&#039;s and many other commentators&#039; point, I wish people could feel uncomfortable with each other&#039;s choices and let it go at that, but history tells us otherwise. Almost all of our terrible social laws stem from one group of people feeling really uncomfortable with another group&#039;s choices. From drug use to homosexuality to prostitution to gender identity - these laws and rules are in place to keep some one from feeling all out of sorts about some one else&#039;s choices. 

Maybe what we should focus on is addressing the discomfort (i.e., homophobia, racism, misogyny, xenophobia, etc) and coming to a point where we can say: &quot;I don&#039;t have an issue with that person doing what they need to do, but I would never make that choice for myself.&quot; 

Maybe then no one would care if a boy wore a dress.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wish I could say I was surprised by the reactions I&#8217;m reading here, but I guess the issue of gender identity is still that divisive, even among libertarians.</p>
<p>To Maggie&#8217;s and many other commentators&#8217; point, I wish people could feel uncomfortable with each other&#8217;s choices and let it go at that, but history tells us otherwise. Almost all of our terrible social laws stem from one group of people feeling really uncomfortable with another group&#8217;s choices. From drug use to homosexuality to prostitution to gender identity &#8211; these laws and rules are in place to keep some one from feeling all out of sorts about some one else&#8217;s choices. </p>
<p>Maybe what we should focus on is addressing the discomfort (i.e., homophobia, racism, misogyny, xenophobia, etc) and coming to a point where we can say: &#8220;I don&#8217;t have an issue with that person doing what they need to do, but I would never make that choice for myself.&#8221; </p>
<p>Maybe then no one would care if a boy wore a dress.</p>
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		<title>By: el coronado</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2012/08/08/a-boy-in-a-dress/comment-page-1/#comment-3672275</link>
		<dc:creator>el coronado</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Aug 2012 03:14:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=25985#comment-3672275</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;...[if] there are 6-year-olds who have imbibed enough hatefulness from their fathers....&quot; 

LOL. Naw, no womynly agenda HERE. Nuh-UH!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;&#8230;[if] there are 6-year-olds who have imbibed enough hatefulness from their fathers&#8230;.&#8221; </p>
<p>LOL. Naw, no womynly agenda HERE. Nuh-UH!</p>
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		<title>By: Belle Waring</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2012/08/08/a-boy-in-a-dress/comment-page-1/#comment-3672148</link>
		<dc:creator>Belle Waring</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Aug 2012 02:28:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=25985#comment-3672148</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Libertarians do make curiously authoritarian parents, by all appearances. Look, there are plenty of things in life for which healthy, successful parents must be authoritarians: it&#039;s 8, turn off the light; eat what the rest of the family is eating; bathe occasionally; do your homework. There are wide swathes of life where no such authoritarianism is required. You want to go outside and eat dirt? Not my thing, and you better take your shoes off when you come in, but sure. You want to cut off your hair with those stupid round scissors (my daughter did this. Adorable pixie cut--well, after some cleanup by mom) Boys want to wear purple? Jesus, who cares. Little kid wants to wear dress? Again, who the fuck cares? And no, schools are not allowed to supervise beatings of boys who wear dresses when they&#039;re not supposed to. Schools are not allowed to let any of the little kids beat each other, it&#039;s pretty much their only fucking job. 

And yes, if my kid wants to wear a dress, and there are 6 year olds who have imbibed enough hatefulness from their fathers to stand around in a circle calling him a faggot, then yes, I would feel absolutely right in saying, &quot;kid, those children at the school today, calling you faggot? They were wrong, and you are right. Furthermore, they are small-minded morons. And I&#039;m sorry you had to learn this so early, but we have a technical term for grown-ups like that: they are called &#039;assholes.&#039; Those kids were assholes, and their parents are assholes, but you can&#039;t use this word, only grown-ups can.&quot; Wholesome child: &quot;like fuck?&quot; Me: &quot;Exactly.&quot; 

Who&#039;s right when an interracial couple moves to a South Carolina town so small there are white and black schools (i.e. church and public) and they send their kid to the church school and a whole bunch of kids want to beat up the new 7th grader for being a nigger? Are the parents right to say &quot;all those kids are racist assholes, and their families are too, down unto the last cousin-sister.&quot; 

If this was 1954 what makes you all so sure you wouldn&#039;t have a lot of good reason why girls shouldn&#039;t be allowed to wear slacks to school?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Libertarians do make curiously authoritarian parents, by all appearances. Look, there are plenty of things in life for which healthy, successful parents must be authoritarians: it&#8217;s 8, turn off the light; eat what the rest of the family is eating; bathe occasionally; do your homework. There are wide swathes of life where no such authoritarianism is required. You want to go outside and eat dirt? Not my thing, and you better take your shoes off when you come in, but sure. You want to cut off your hair with those stupid round scissors (my daughter did this. Adorable pixie cut&#8211;well, after some cleanup by mom) Boys want to wear purple? Jesus, who cares. Little kid wants to wear dress? Again, who the fuck cares? And no, schools are not allowed to supervise beatings of boys who wear dresses when they&#8217;re not supposed to. Schools are not allowed to let any of the little kids beat each other, it&#8217;s pretty much their only fucking job. </p>
<p>And yes, if my kid wants to wear a dress, and there are 6 year olds who have imbibed enough hatefulness from their fathers to stand around in a circle calling him a faggot, then yes, I would feel absolutely right in saying, &#8220;kid, those children at the school today, calling you faggot? They were wrong, and you are right. Furthermore, they are small-minded morons. And I&#8217;m sorry you had to learn this so early, but we have a technical term for grown-ups like that: they are called &#8216;assholes.&#8217; Those kids were assholes, and their parents are assholes, but you can&#8217;t use this word, only grown-ups can.&#8221; Wholesome child: &#8220;like fuck?&#8221; Me: &#8220;Exactly.&#8221; </p>
<p>Who&#8217;s right when an interracial couple moves to a South Carolina town so small there are white and black schools (i.e. church and public) and they send their kid to the church school and a whole bunch of kids want to beat up the new 7th grader for being a nigger? Are the parents right to say &#8220;all those kids are racist assholes, and their families are too, down unto the last cousin-sister.&#8221; </p>
<p>If this was 1954 what makes you all so sure you wouldn&#8217;t have a lot of good reason why girls shouldn&#8217;t be allowed to wear slacks to school?</p>
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		<title>By: Mairead</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2012/08/08/a-boy-in-a-dress/comment-page-1/#comment-3671662</link>
		<dc:creator>Mairead</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Aug 2012 23:26:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=25985#comment-3671662</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Sorry, but I feel no responsibility for your ignorance.  If you refuse to make the small effort required to cure it, I won&#039;t stop you.  You&#039;ve evidently survived all this time while ignorant of many things that are far more important.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry, but I feel no responsibility for your ignorance.  If you refuse to make the small effort required to cure it, I won&#8217;t stop you.  You&#8217;ve evidently survived all this time while ignorant of many things that are far more important.</p>
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		<title>By: el coronado</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2012/08/08/a-boy-in-a-dress/comment-page-1/#comment-3671545</link>
		<dc:creator>el coronado</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Aug 2012 22:40:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=25985#comment-3671545</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[In my many decades here on this planet, I have noticed an odd thing, Mairead. The way to tell if someone doesn&#039;t really understand; or agree with; or is proud of; or actually *believes in* any argument he/she is making is a curious reluctance to make an absolute - or &#039;blanket&#039; - statement, or even answer the simplest of questions about those statements/arguments/pontifications. We see examples of this in politicians telling us that pissing away hundreds of billions of dollars on boondoggle projects will help us all....but then they get very vague as to details. In Human Psychology, however, it&#039;s much MUCH more....telling, shall we say.

Now what would Freud make, I wonder, of someone who is so reluctant to state something as simple &amp; basic as his/her *gender*? As you no doubt larnt in all them thar doctoral-level psychology classes, this is clearly indicative of a whole *squirming* can o&#039; psychological worms, wouldn&#039;t you agree? Gender Identity issues? Gender confusion? _Shame_?!? 

Or, more to the point, obfuscation? 
Manfully yours, _EL_ Coronado]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In my many decades here on this planet, I have noticed an odd thing, Mairead. The way to tell if someone doesn&#8217;t really understand; or agree with; or is proud of; or actually *believes in* any argument he/she is making is a curious reluctance to make an absolute &#8211; or &#8216;blanket&#8217; &#8211; statement, or even answer the simplest of questions about those statements/arguments/pontifications. We see examples of this in politicians telling us that pissing away hundreds of billions of dollars on boondoggle projects will help us all&#8230;.but then they get very vague as to details. In Human Psychology, however, it&#8217;s much MUCH more&#8230;.telling, shall we say.</p>
<p>Now what would Freud make, I wonder, of someone who is so reluctant to state something as simple &amp; basic as his/her *gender*? As you no doubt larnt in all them thar doctoral-level psychology classes, this is clearly indicative of a whole *squirming* can o&#8217; psychological worms, wouldn&#8217;t you agree? Gender Identity issues? Gender confusion? _Shame_?!? </p>
<p>Or, more to the point, obfuscation?<br />
Manfully yours, _EL_ Coronado</p>
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		<title>By: Mairead</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2012/08/08/a-boy-in-a-dress/comment-page-1/#comment-3671366</link>
		<dc:creator>Mairead</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Aug 2012 21:50:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=25985#comment-3671366</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@36: &lt;i&gt;Say, apropos of nothing, are you a woman, by chance, #35?&lt;/i&gt;

If you&#039;re not smart enough to be able to find out something so simple as that, what makes you believe you&#039;re smart enough to understand anything more complicated?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@36: <i>Say, apropos of nothing, are you a woman, by chance, #35?</i></p>
<p>If you&#8217;re not smart enough to be able to find out something so simple as that, what makes you believe you&#8217;re smart enough to understand anything more complicated?</p>
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		<title>By: el coronado</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2012/08/08/a-boy-in-a-dress/comment-page-1/#comment-3671208</link>
		<dc:creator>el coronado</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Aug 2012 20:42:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=25985#comment-3671208</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@#35 - That....was a most interesting example of what passes for (I suppose) the thought processes that are taught at college-level these days. Oh, to be sure, it was Grade A PC Womyn-centric Bullshit, but still. And I *will* admit you did seem to eschew the word &#039;should&#039; in your nonsensical little rant/lecture.

But it&#039;s still bullshit nonetheless. Here in the real world , any &quot;nervousness&quot; you so (erroneously)(condescendingly) detected isn&#039;t because I/we are worried about the continued &quot;justification of male privilege&quot;, fool. It&#039;s concern for the boy in question. Because here in the real world, his little *issue* - and his parents&#039; profoundly stupid and destructive mass publication of it - is going to guarantee him a world of hurt and ass-whuppings until he a) ax-murders his folks one night or b) graduates HS and then changes his name &amp; moves far away - never to speak to his &#039;doting&#039; parents again. Because boys _will_ be boys, despite the best efforts of doctoral-level psychologists to load them up on literal and psychological estrogen.

As opposed to Victorian times, when the natalist imperative was so pervasive and demanding. YOU know! Say, apropos of nothing, are you a woman, by chance, #35?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@#35 &#8211; That&#8230;.was a most interesting example of what passes for (I suppose) the thought processes that are taught at college-level these days. Oh, to be sure, it was Grade A PC Womyn-centric Bullshit, but still. And I *will* admit you did seem to eschew the word &#8216;should&#8217; in your nonsensical little rant/lecture.</p>
<p>But it&#8217;s still bullshit nonetheless. Here in the real world , any &#8220;nervousness&#8221; you so (erroneously)(condescendingly) detected isn&#8217;t because I/we are worried about the continued &#8220;justification of male privilege&#8221;, fool. It&#8217;s concern for the boy in question. Because here in the real world, his little *issue* &#8211; and his parents&#8217; profoundly stupid and destructive mass publication of it &#8211; is going to guarantee him a world of hurt and ass-whuppings until he a) ax-murders his folks one night or b) graduates HS and then changes his name &amp; moves far away &#8211; never to speak to his &#8216;doting&#8217; parents again. Because boys _will_ be boys, despite the best efforts of doctoral-level psychologists to load them up on literal and psychological estrogen.</p>
<p>As opposed to Victorian times, when the natalist imperative was so pervasive and demanding. YOU know! Say, apropos of nothing, are you a woman, by chance, #35?</p>
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		<title>By: Mairead</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2012/08/08/a-boy-in-a-dress/comment-page-1/#comment-3671117</link>
		<dc:creator>Mairead</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Aug 2012 20:08:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=25985#comment-3671117</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[(full disclosure:  I trained at the doctoral level as a psychologist.)

Nature not only abhors vaccuums, she abhors bright-line differences.  That&#039;s how she does speciation:  through imperceptible gradations from one state to another.  

We humans are limited-capacity, serial processors (there&#039;s a little self-test by which anyone who doubts that can prove it to themselves).  

That means our ability to perceive those gradations is limited, as is our ability even to label them meaningfully, and so we tend to reduce difference to categories.  Our taxonomies ignore detail.

Gender is a continuum just as sexuality is.  Both are distributed under that so-called &quot;bell&quot; curve that everyone&#039;s seen in schoolbooks.  

Most people are bisexual by nature, but western religions and political cultures demand that we be heterosexual:  the kings, priests, and wealthy get more warm bodies that way for their army, religion, or labor pool.

We know that most people are bi by nature because we&#039;ve lots of evidence from non-western cultures, where same-sex affection and sexual expression is accepted or even, for certain life-stages, &lt;i&gt;demanded&lt;/i&gt;.

We know gender is a continuum because most of us are androgenous in our likes and dislikes.  Women enjoy sports, men cook, women do carpentry, men enjoy childcare - the list goes on.  We also know it from a Polynesian society written up by the late anthro Dr Margaret Mead and from the anthropology of an area in India (I&#039;m blanking on the name) where gender roles are nearly reversed.

Even sex membership is a continuum.  We used to think everyone was either M or F, with the few cases of ambiguous genitalia dismissed as extremely rare anomalies.  

But we can now share information around the world very easily, and tests that were once impossible are now commonplace.  And so, lo and behold, it turns out that such anomalies aren&#039;t that rare after all.

There are even cases in the literature now of XX men and XY women.  Seventy years ago, nobody could test for such conditions.  Now we know that there&#039;s at least one woman in the world who, despite lab work that shows her to be what convention calls a &quot;normal male&quot;, she&#039;s a normal female who had periods, got pregnant in the usual way, and had a daughter.  This was thought to be &lt;i&gt;100% impossible&lt;/i&gt;.  But she&#039;s a member of an extended clan in Croatia all of whom present with various differences from what was thought to be &quot;normal&quot;.

&quot;Normal&quot; is not really &quot;normal&quot;, it&#039;s just &quot;usual&quot;.

Males have higher social standing than females.  This is true &lt;i&gt;almost&lt;/i&gt; everywhere in the world.

So, it&#039;s &quot;understandable&quot; that girls will be tomboys, but it&#039;s conventionally a terrible status violation for boys to be ...we don&#039;t even have a name for it, that&#039;s how terrible it is.  

It&#039;s like Victorian times, when the natalist imperative was so pervasive and demanding that legislators who wanted to criminalise non-missionary-position sex found that they had no way to describe what they meant.  And it was totally impolite to refer to a &quot;leg&quot;.  It had to be referred to as a &quot;limb&quot; -even if it was a table&#039;s!

That&#039;s what all the nervousness on this topic is about:  unlike a girl in a shirt and jeans, a boy in a dress is a Major Status Violation.  He&#039;s rejecting the symbols of male privilege and threatening the status of every male, because if boys really &lt;i&gt;aren&#039;t&lt;/i&gt; both different and superior to girls, what justifies male privilege?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>(full disclosure:  I trained at the doctoral level as a psychologist.)</p>
<p>Nature not only abhors vaccuums, she abhors bright-line differences.  That&#8217;s how she does speciation:  through imperceptible gradations from one state to another.  </p>
<p>We humans are limited-capacity, serial processors (there&#8217;s a little self-test by which anyone who doubts that can prove it to themselves).  </p>
<p>That means our ability to perceive those gradations is limited, as is our ability even to label them meaningfully, and so we tend to reduce difference to categories.  Our taxonomies ignore detail.</p>
<p>Gender is a continuum just as sexuality is.  Both are distributed under that so-called &#8220;bell&#8221; curve that everyone&#8217;s seen in schoolbooks.  </p>
<p>Most people are bisexual by nature, but western religions and political cultures demand that we be heterosexual:  the kings, priests, and wealthy get more warm bodies that way for their army, religion, or labor pool.</p>
<p>We know that most people are bi by nature because we&#8217;ve lots of evidence from non-western cultures, where same-sex affection and sexual expression is accepted or even, for certain life-stages, <i>demanded</i>.</p>
<p>We know gender is a continuum because most of us are androgenous in our likes and dislikes.  Women enjoy sports, men cook, women do carpentry, men enjoy childcare &#8211; the list goes on.  We also know it from a Polynesian society written up by the late anthro Dr Margaret Mead and from the anthropology of an area in India (I&#8217;m blanking on the name) where gender roles are nearly reversed.</p>
<p>Even sex membership is a continuum.  We used to think everyone was either M or F, with the few cases of ambiguous genitalia dismissed as extremely rare anomalies.  </p>
<p>But we can now share information around the world very easily, and tests that were once impossible are now commonplace.  And so, lo and behold, it turns out that such anomalies aren&#8217;t that rare after all.</p>
<p>There are even cases in the literature now of XX men and XY women.  Seventy years ago, nobody could test for such conditions.  Now we know that there&#8217;s at least one woman in the world who, despite lab work that shows her to be what convention calls a &#8220;normal male&#8221;, she&#8217;s a normal female who had periods, got pregnant in the usual way, and had a daughter.  This was thought to be <i>100% impossible</i>.  But she&#8217;s a member of an extended clan in Croatia all of whom present with various differences from what was thought to be &#8220;normal&#8221;.</p>
<p>&#8220;Normal&#8221; is not really &#8220;normal&#8221;, it&#8217;s just &#8220;usual&#8221;.</p>
<p>Males have higher social standing than females.  This is true <i>almost</i> everywhere in the world.</p>
<p>So, it&#8217;s &#8220;understandable&#8221; that girls will be tomboys, but it&#8217;s conventionally a terrible status violation for boys to be &#8230;we don&#8217;t even have a name for it, that&#8217;s how terrible it is.  </p>
<p>It&#8217;s like Victorian times, when the natalist imperative was so pervasive and demanding that legislators who wanted to criminalise non-missionary-position sex found that they had no way to describe what they meant.  And it was totally impolite to refer to a &#8220;leg&#8221;.  It had to be referred to as a &#8220;limb&#8221; -even if it was a table&#8217;s!</p>
<p>That&#8217;s what all the nervousness on this topic is about:  unlike a girl in a shirt and jeans, a boy in a dress is a Major Status Violation.  He&#8217;s rejecting the symbols of male privilege and threatening the status of every male, because if boys really <i>aren&#8217;t</i> both different and superior to girls, what justifies male privilege?</p>
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		<title>By: PauL</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2012/08/08/a-boy-in-a-dress/comment-page-1/#comment-3670195</link>
		<dc:creator>PauL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Aug 2012 14:56:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=25985#comment-3670195</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Clothes are, among other things, symbolic and they send a message about the wearer.  Dresses are items of female clothing and your son is not a female.  What is so difficult to understand about that?  

If an African-American child wanted to put on white-face and dress like a Klansman, I would hope that his parents wouldn&#039;t go along with such nonsense and send out an email to the neighbors asking for their understanding as he “has been race-fluid for as long as we can remember...&quot;.  

No, people would rightly wonder why he disliked who he was so much that he&#039;d pretend to be something he wasn&#039;t.  Why would it be any different with one&#039;s sex?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Clothes are, among other things, symbolic and they send a message about the wearer.  Dresses are items of female clothing and your son is not a female.  What is so difficult to understand about that?  </p>
<p>If an African-American child wanted to put on white-face and dress like a Klansman, I would hope that his parents wouldn&#8217;t go along with such nonsense and send out an email to the neighbors asking for their understanding as he “has been race-fluid for as long as we can remember&#8230;&#8221;.  </p>
<p>No, people would rightly wonder why he disliked who he was so much that he&#8217;d pretend to be something he wasn&#8217;t.  Why would it be any different with one&#8217;s sex?</p>
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		<title>By: Solomon</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2012/08/08/a-boy-in-a-dress/comment-page-1/#comment-3667698</link>
		<dc:creator>Solomon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Aug 2012 02:40:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=25985#comment-3667698</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It sounds like the parents are the ones with issues. Where did this preschooler get the dress? Did he go to the store, find the dress aisle, pick it out and pay for it with money that he earned from his lemonade stand? I doubt it, but I would be a lot more understanding and tolerant were that the case. &quot;an it harm none, do as ye will&quot;

In this case, the parents are grooming and encouraging their child to &quot;make a statement&quot; on their behalf that conforms with their beliefs. I am less tolerant of parents who use their children in such a manner. They may claim that he threw a tantrum in the store until we bought it and then threw a tantrum until we let him wear it to school. I call BS on that. I have three children of my own, 2 girls and a boy. Throwing a tantrum in a store because they want me to buy something for them is the quickest way to ensure that they don&#039;t get the item in question. 

As far as their fashion taste goes, I am more concerned that all the important areas are covered than in the color or style. If my daughter wants to wear hiking boots with a dress, fine. I will tell her she looks ridiculous and some people will laugh or make fun of her. The same goes for my son who wanted to wear a scuba mask and snorkel for a thankfully short phase. He has lately taken a fancy to a fedora that he purchased with his own money earned through extra chores and yard work. He wears it well and gets complements from the ladies. It&#039;s not every day you see a 7 year old boy in a fedora. If he told me he wanted to wear a dress, I would ask why. As his sisters are more than willing to point out, dresses are not all that practical for many situations they find themselves in- ie: playing, climbing, running etc. then you also have to be careful how you sit so people don&#039;t see your underwear. 

If they want to make a statement, fine- make it. Get some signs, picket somewhere, start a petition whatever. Don&#039;t put a boy in a dress and expect everyone to be understanding and accepting of something that is clearly not the norm in social behavior. If you want to change the norms, go for it- more power to you, but you don&#039;t start trying to make that change by sending your 3-4 year old boy to preschool in a dress and announcing to everyone ahead of time this is his decision and we should accept his gender fluidity.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It sounds like the parents are the ones with issues. Where did this preschooler get the dress? Did he go to the store, find the dress aisle, pick it out and pay for it with money that he earned from his lemonade stand? I doubt it, but I would be a lot more understanding and tolerant were that the case. &#8220;an it harm none, do as ye will&#8221;</p>
<p>In this case, the parents are grooming and encouraging their child to &#8220;make a statement&#8221; on their behalf that conforms with their beliefs. I am less tolerant of parents who use their children in such a manner. They may claim that he threw a tantrum in the store until we bought it and then threw a tantrum until we let him wear it to school. I call BS on that. I have three children of my own, 2 girls and a boy. Throwing a tantrum in a store because they want me to buy something for them is the quickest way to ensure that they don&#8217;t get the item in question. </p>
<p>As far as their fashion taste goes, I am more concerned that all the important areas are covered than in the color or style. If my daughter wants to wear hiking boots with a dress, fine. I will tell her she looks ridiculous and some people will laugh or make fun of her. The same goes for my son who wanted to wear a scuba mask and snorkel for a thankfully short phase. He has lately taken a fancy to a fedora that he purchased with his own money earned through extra chores and yard work. He wears it well and gets complements from the ladies. It&#8217;s not every day you see a 7 year old boy in a fedora. If he told me he wanted to wear a dress, I would ask why. As his sisters are more than willing to point out, dresses are not all that practical for many situations they find themselves in- ie: playing, climbing, running etc. then you also have to be careful how you sit so people don&#8217;t see your underwear. </p>
<p>If they want to make a statement, fine- make it. Get some signs, picket somewhere, start a petition whatever. Don&#8217;t put a boy in a dress and expect everyone to be understanding and accepting of something that is clearly not the norm in social behavior. If you want to change the norms, go for it- more power to you, but you don&#8217;t start trying to make that change by sending your 3-4 year old boy to preschool in a dress and announcing to everyone ahead of time this is his decision and we should accept his gender fluidity.</p>
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		<title>By: Pete</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2012/08/08/a-boy-in-a-dress/comment-page-1/#comment-3667558</link>
		<dc:creator>Pete</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Aug 2012 02:15:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=25985#comment-3667558</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Ideally, the world will become more accepting than in our current stage of social evolution.  But until such time, allowing a young child to publicly gender cross dress is a bad idea.

A young child is not mature enough to undertstand the likely short term and long term consequences of these actions.  Open bullying of the child would be prohibited, but the child would surely be subjected to subtle forms of harassment if not outright social rejection from many of his/her peers.  The impacts to the child&#039;s feelings of acceptance and self worth (often synonymous at young ages) would no doubt be severe and long lasting.

I think the child would be better served by parents who were loving and accepting of this behavior at home, but explain to the child that it&#039;s not allowed publicly until he/she is more mature.  When the child becomes a young adult, he/she will be in a better position to evaluate just how important this behavior is to them relative to potential consequences in terms of narrow public acceptance, employability, and even physical danger from bigoted douchebags.

This is clearly not ideal, but I&#039;m afraid it&#039;s reality.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ideally, the world will become more accepting than in our current stage of social evolution.  But until such time, allowing a young child to publicly gender cross dress is a bad idea.</p>
<p>A young child is not mature enough to undertstand the likely short term and long term consequences of these actions.  Open bullying of the child would be prohibited, but the child would surely be subjected to subtle forms of harassment if not outright social rejection from many of his/her peers.  The impacts to the child&#8217;s feelings of acceptance and self worth (often synonymous at young ages) would no doubt be severe and long lasting.</p>
<p>I think the child would be better served by parents who were loving and accepting of this behavior at home, but explain to the child that it&#8217;s not allowed publicly until he/she is more mature.  When the child becomes a young adult, he/she will be in a better position to evaluate just how important this behavior is to them relative to potential consequences in terms of narrow public acceptance, employability, and even physical danger from bigoted douchebags.</p>
<p>This is clearly not ideal, but I&#8217;m afraid it&#8217;s reality.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian V.</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2012/08/08/a-boy-in-a-dress/comment-page-1/#comment-3667248</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian V.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Aug 2012 00:28:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=25985#comment-3667248</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@23

&quot;...therapeutic high school...?&quot; 

You made that up.  There is absolutely no such thing!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@23</p>
<p>&#8220;&#8230;therapeutic high school&#8230;?&#8221; </p>
<p>You made that up.  There is absolutely no such thing!</p>
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		<title>By: el coronado</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2012/08/08/a-boy-in-a-dress/comment-page-1/#comment-3666968</link>
		<dc:creator>el coronado</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Aug 2012 23:07:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=25985#comment-3666968</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Can&#039;t help but notice that a lot of the comments here are focusing on what *should* be done/not done in this situation. As opposed to, you know, to _reality_. &quot;Should&quot; and 5 bucks will get you a cup of Starbucks, last I checked. 

Oh, and for the record, the parents &quot;susan&quot; and &quot;rob&quot; are either the world&#039;s biggest assholes, or complete idiots. They put evidence of their son&#039;s uniqueness/nonconformity/whatever *ON PAPER*, and then sent it off to a crapload of strangers. Yeah, that &quot;our son likes to wear dresses sometimes&quot; email won&#039;t follow their son around and make his life utterly miserable until he moves away and changes his name. Sure it won&#039;t.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Can&#8217;t help but notice that a lot of the comments here are focusing on what *should* be done/not done in this situation. As opposed to, you know, to _reality_. &#8220;Should&#8221; and 5 bucks will get you a cup of Starbucks, last I checked. </p>
<p>Oh, and for the record, the parents &#8220;susan&#8221; and &#8220;rob&#8221; are either the world&#8217;s biggest assholes, or complete idiots. They put evidence of their son&#8217;s uniqueness/nonconformity/whatever *ON PAPER*, and then sent it off to a crapload of strangers. Yeah, that &#8220;our son likes to wear dresses sometimes&#8221; email won&#8217;t follow their son around and make his life utterly miserable until he moves away and changes his name. Sure it won&#8217;t.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2012/08/08/a-boy-in-a-dress/comment-page-1/#comment-3666666</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Aug 2012 22:20:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=25985#comment-3666666</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[What a messed up time we&#039;re living in.  If you want me to explain what I mean, I&#039;m sure you wouldn&#039;t understand anyway.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What a messed up time we&#8217;re living in.  If you want me to explain what I mean, I&#8217;m sure you wouldn&#8217;t understand anyway.</p>
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		<title>By: Leah</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2012/08/08/a-boy-in-a-dress/comment-page-1/#comment-3666283</link>
		<dc:creator>Leah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Aug 2012 20:34:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=25985#comment-3666283</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Jet, I think it&#039;s wonderful that your son trusts you enough to come to you with something he&#039;s hiding. All parents should strive for that kind of relationship.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jet, I think it&#8217;s wonderful that your son trusts you enough to come to you with something he&#8217;s hiding. All parents should strive for that kind of relationship.</p>
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		<title>By: Jet</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2012/08/08/a-boy-in-a-dress/comment-page-1/#comment-3666197</link>
		<dc:creator>Jet</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Aug 2012 20:08:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=25985#comment-3666197</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;ve had to have some of these kinds of conversations with my nine-year-old son recently. About six months ago, he came out of his room looking tearful and sat down next to me saying, &quot;Mom, I&#039;ve been keeping a secret and it&#039;s really bothering me, so I&#039;d like to tell you about it.&quot; Imagine my relief when I heard, after having imagined the worst, that he was a Brony. Since then he&#039;s encountered the kinds of flak, both in real life and online, that one would expect. 

All I can do is continue to assure him that it&#039;s fine to like what he likes as long as he&#039;s not hurting anyone else and that the people who attack him for his likes are either ignorant or are afraid of what they don&#039;t understand. I can&#039;t shield him from all of the consequences of his choice, but when I hear someone being purposefully cruel -- adult or child -- I can and will nip that in the bud, which may simply be a matter of avoidance. 

Long before all of this started, I taught my son that unless he was offering a compliment or was speaking out of a concern for someone&#039;s immediate well-being that he shouldn&#039;t comment on others&#039; appearances. In fact, I think Edith Ann said it best: &quot;If you can&#039;t say nothin&#039; nice, don&#039;t say nothin&#039; at all.&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve had to have some of these kinds of conversations with my nine-year-old son recently. About six months ago, he came out of his room looking tearful and sat down next to me saying, &#8220;Mom, I&#8217;ve been keeping a secret and it&#8217;s really bothering me, so I&#8217;d like to tell you about it.&#8221; Imagine my relief when I heard, after having imagined the worst, that he was a Brony. Since then he&#8217;s encountered the kinds of flak, both in real life and online, that one would expect. </p>
<p>All I can do is continue to assure him that it&#8217;s fine to like what he likes as long as he&#8217;s not hurting anyone else and that the people who attack him for his likes are either ignorant or are afraid of what they don&#8217;t understand. I can&#8217;t shield him from all of the consequences of his choice, but when I hear someone being purposefully cruel &#8212; adult or child &#8212; I can and will nip that in the bud, which may simply be a matter of avoidance. </p>
<p>Long before all of this started, I taught my son that unless he was offering a compliment or was speaking out of a concern for someone&#8217;s immediate well-being that he shouldn&#8217;t comment on others&#8217; appearances. In fact, I think Edith Ann said it best: &#8220;If you can&#8217;t say nothin&#8217; nice, don&#8217;t say nothin&#8217; at all.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Ken Hagler</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2012/08/08/a-boy-in-a-dress/comment-page-1/#comment-3666107</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken Hagler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Aug 2012 19:33:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=25985#comment-3666107</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The parents should explain to the kid that there are a great many people in our country who are very deeply invested in rigidly defined rules about how boys and girls are &quot;supposed&quot; to behave, and that they react very badly to people challenging those rules. He should be given some examples of what could happen: for example, the preschool might send him home and refuse to let him return unless he dresses the way the preschool staff wants him too. His best friend might come up to him and say, &quot;My parents say I can&#039;t play with you any more because your whole family is going to hell.&quot; Worst case, armed government employees may kidnap him and never let him see his parents again.

Then let him make an informed decision on what to wear to preschool.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The parents should explain to the kid that there are a great many people in our country who are very deeply invested in rigidly defined rules about how boys and girls are &#8220;supposed&#8221; to behave, and that they react very badly to people challenging those rules. He should be given some examples of what could happen: for example, the preschool might send him home and refuse to let him return unless he dresses the way the preschool staff wants him too. His best friend might come up to him and say, &#8220;My parents say I can&#8217;t play with you any more because your whole family is going to hell.&#8221; Worst case, armed government employees may kidnap him and never let him see his parents again.</p>
<p>Then let him make an informed decision on what to wear to preschool.</p>
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		<title>By: William</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2012/08/08/a-boy-in-a-dress/comment-page-1/#comment-3666062</link>
		<dc:creator>William</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Aug 2012 19:21:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=25985#comment-3666062</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[These kids shouldn&#039;t get beaten up and school officials ought to step in if thats happening. At the same time, we ought to be teaching kids in general to respond less favorably to social coercion. Maybe that means letting boys who want to wear dresses to wear them and teaching them the unsettling laugh that tends to put bullies off their game, maybe that means coming down hard on people who bully others, maybe that means everyone fucking with expectations and social standards to upset the field as a whole.

I&#039;m a psychologist at a small therapeutic high school. We&#039;ve got a fair number of gender noncomforming students. You can lecture other children to death and they&#039;ll still make snarky comments, but when I walk through the door as a hyper-masculine, well-respected authority figure wearing a kilt and all but daring someone to make a comment about it the perceived norms start to fray. It takes bravery, it takes a willingness to soak up social opprobrium and laugh at it, but at the end of the day social rules are just constraints whose power comes from the people constrained by them. If you&#039;re a libertarian because you believe that liberty (in the form of choices restricted only by harm to others) is a virtue in itself then you need to stand up and challenge rules which have no grounding in the protection of others.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>These kids shouldn&#8217;t get beaten up and school officials ought to step in if thats happening. At the same time, we ought to be teaching kids in general to respond less favorably to social coercion. Maybe that means letting boys who want to wear dresses to wear them and teaching them the unsettling laugh that tends to put bullies off their game, maybe that means coming down hard on people who bully others, maybe that means everyone fucking with expectations and social standards to upset the field as a whole.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m a psychologist at a small therapeutic high school. We&#8217;ve got a fair number of gender noncomforming students. You can lecture other children to death and they&#8217;ll still make snarky comments, but when I walk through the door as a hyper-masculine, well-respected authority figure wearing a kilt and all but daring someone to make a comment about it the perceived norms start to fray. It takes bravery, it takes a willingness to soak up social opprobrium and laugh at it, but at the end of the day social rules are just constraints whose power comes from the people constrained by them. If you&#8217;re a libertarian because you believe that liberty (in the form of choices restricted only by harm to others) is a virtue in itself then you need to stand up and challenge rules which have no grounding in the protection of others.</p>
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