Maggie’s Saturday Links

Saturday, July 7th, 2012

And here are two from Radley’s Twitter stream:

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55 Responses to “Maggie’s Saturday Links”

  1. #1 |  MacK | 

    TSA story is incorrect link.

  2. #2 |  StrangeOne | 

    The Huff-Po comments on Obama’s accomplishments are depressing.

    It’s amazing what they give him credit for. Leaving Iraq, which he actively opposed. Saving the Auto Industry, which was actual saving the union which had bleed the auto industry dry. Wall Street Reform, which resulted in bailing out and shielding the institutions responsible for the economic collapse. Cleaning up deep horizon, which hasn’t been cleaned up and his administration shielded BP from paying for it while prohibiting news outlets from reporting on the actual condition of the gulf coast. Providing more people with health care, which seems to confuse “providing” with “force them to buy insurance”. Lowering middle class taxes, which at face value is wrong and doubly so with “health care” they are now required to pay for. Finally, killing Osama bin Laden. No he ordered one of many attempted military strikes that actually managed to kill Osama, its not like he personally hunted him down and beat him to death. I never understood how killing Osama, 1) has anything to do with his effectiveness as President, and 2) is viewed as a unique accomplishment that no other President could have done.

    It would be one thing if they actually countered the points in the article, or at least tried to. But no, they all go on to list a bunch of things that aren’t on the list and manage to get them all completely wrong. I really thought the Bush administration had cornered the market on cognitive dissonance in its supporters. Then the Democrats put a right-wing corporate hawk into power and had to convince themselves that hes progressive Jesus.

  3. #3 |  stronginva | 

    The TSA “freeze” story was discussed in detail in a NYT article from a few months ago. http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/29/business/29road.html?_r=1 It seems to be part of a TSA training exercise.

  4. #4 |  Maggie McNeill | 

    #1 – It works just fine for me; where does it take you?

  5. #5 |  Leon Wolfeson | 

    lol Bitcoin. Dollars perhaps.

  6. #6 |  DoubleU | 

    Maggie, there is two links in the title, the “TSA’s newest policy: ” part takes you to the link in the second story.

    Strange One, yes I laughed at the comments at the HuffingtonPuffington.

  7. #7 |  Dedward | 

    The “TSA’s newest policy:” part links to the Drug Map

  8. #8 |  Kit Smith | 

    I am amused by the griping about Obama saving the Auto Unions and not the auto industry. Maybe it’s just because I live near all the plants getting shut down, but I watched the supply chain panic as the US manufacturers faltered. There was no Chapter 11 reorganization waiting for GM and Chrysler if the government hadn’t stepped in – they would have been pushed into Chapter 7 liquidation without the government capital and taken their supply chains with them. I cannot predict how it would have affected Ford if the other two had gone under, but even two out of three would have left the Midwest an economic wasteland and dealt a staggering blow to the rest of the economy when it was at its weakest state in 80 years. Once you get past the dislike of unions, you see that maybe there were some good reasons to get involved.

    Also, I don’t ever recall Obama ever saying anything but support for stepping up our efforts in Afghanistan, unlike what Mr. Boaz glibly implies in his column (for the record, I’d like to get out of Afghanistan as well as Iraq, so please don’t constitute this as my support for Obama’s foreign policy in total).

    Finally, can you blame him for holding the most fundraisers of any previous president? In a post-Citizen’s United landscape, lots and lots of money is a key step to getting reelected. It’s like the people who complain about how first term congressmen spend half of their working time trying to raise money for reelection but complain about any real campaign finance reform to make elections more about ideas than the size of warchests – can’t have it both ways.

    I will not defend the other points as I am more in concurrence with Mr Boaz than the administration’s actions in those cases.

  9. #9 |  William Kern | 

    The comments on the Boaz article are unreal.

  10. #10 |  Leon Wolfeson | 

    @9 – No, they’re VERY real. The problem is your denial of other attitudes, as usual. I completely agree that Obama is a mid-right President. However, he’s managed NOT to completely tank your economy as, say, the UK Tories have done.

    It’s a sad commentary when you view that as a negative.

  11. #11 |  C. S. P. Schofield | 

    Kit Smith,

    “In a post-Citizen’s United landscape, lots and lots of money is a key step to getting reelected.”

    In a pre-citizen’s united, too, save for a brief period when the fantastically anti-free speech McCain-Whosis restrictions were in place. Which makes your phrasing strike my ear as more than a little weird.

    I will also say that if Jug-Ears never actually came out and SAID “I will get us out of Afghanistan”, he certainly spent a lot of time in his campaign trying to give the impression that he was the answer to an anti-war maiden’s prayers.

    Myself, I am less concerned with his decisions in the military/foreign policy area than I am with the impression he gives me that he hasn’t much of a grasp of what is going on.

    Not that I expected McCain to be anything but a disaster either.

  12. #12 |  Brian | 

    #8 | Kit Smith

    “…they would have been pushed into Chapter 7 liquidation without the government capital and taken their supply chains with them.”

    You make the assumption that some other auto company wouldn’t come in and gobble them up and continue producing cars. This is the same “oh my God we have to do something” attitude that the state always uses to justify its largess. It’s entirely possible they wouldn’t be making GM or Chrysler cars but GM and Chrysler are shit anyway.

  13. #13 |  Marshall | 

    #2:

    Actually what’s most shocking is not them being upset that Boaz left out his other accomplishments. I can understand lefties, even if I have policy disagreements with them, saying that it’s not a total picture of Obama’s legacy. But what blows my mind are the one or two sentence posts that just dismiss it as outright lies or bullshit, or as “right-wing” criticism. Those are all facts. Jesus, cue Julian’s “epistemic closure” for progressives.

  14. #14 |  EH | 

    Funny how DNA exonerations get so much pushback from law enforcement agencies, yet DNA prosecutions for old cases are hunky-dory.

    http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/dwi-leads-mo-mans-arrest-cold-case-killing-16733400

  15. #15 |  George | 

    Kit Smith — Living close to the plants does not make you knowledgeable in bankruptcy. You have no basis for saying the auto manufacturers could not have done Chapter 11s. Even if they’d bulk-sold in a 363, buyers could have carried on the brands.

  16. #16 |  Other Sean | 

    StrangeOne, DoubleU, William Kern…anyone else.

    You can get a humor/horror boost by reading the HuffPo comments policy along with this particular batch of comments.

    It says things like: “This community does not tolerate direct or indirect attacks, name-calling or insults, nor does it tolerate intentional attempts to derail, hijack, troll or bait others into an emotional response.” It goes on to describe how moderators and specially selected users are empowered to purge the forum of “ad hominem attacks”.

    Then, when you go read the comments, you see all these purple shaded “Super Users” with 2,200 fans and more badges than a retired Soviet field marshall, and what are they writing? What powerful combination of deep thought and high style earned them such admiration. Well, it turns out to be a long series of comments like this:

    “Don’t listen to David Boazo!!! He’s a swiftboater and a major bigwig in the Kochsucker empire. Boycott faux news!”

  17. #17 |  Bob | 

    Greece’s currency choices are not limited to the euro and the drachma.

    Bitcoin? You’re kidding, right? No, seriously… you’re kidding, right?

    Greece’s choices are limited to currencies it can devalue. There are exactly one of those, the drachma. Once it succeeds in inflating it’s debt away by devaluing the drachma, it can switch to a more stable currency.

    Basically, the only way out of a debt bubble is to wipe out the debt. You can default by saying “Get bent, we won’t pay. Neeener neener!” or you can say “Sure, we’ll pay! In this massively devalued currency that isn’t worth shit.” Both methods will work, and of course, clobber your ability to get NEW debt… but the devalue route won’t need a massive political confluence, just the collusion of a few in charge of the numbers.

    But Bitcoin? Really? I cannot see how that could possible work. Where would they even get enough Bitcoin to run an actual economy? Even if they could, you can’t “spend” the stuff without a “wallet”. And you can’t valuate the stuff without a reference point that takes into account the amount of local Bitcoin. At that point, all you have is an electronic version of the drachma, fully under the control of the Greek government.

    If someone wants to try to convince me that Bitcoin could actually work, I’ll listen to the argument.

  18. #18 |  johnl | 

    Bob it is not entirely up to the Greek government what currency Greeks use for their savings or business dealings. USD, Boomers tokens, or candy can all be used for trading so long as both parties agree.

  19. #19 |  Mattocracy | 

    Hurray, Leon is here to be a troll again.

  20. #20 |  Matt | 

    @Bob

    Think of it like this: All of the money you make you put into bitcoins. You buy what you can with Bitcoins, but with most things you’ll need the national currency – the Drachma. So whenever you need to buy something, you quickly convert the Bitcoins to Drachma at the rate at that time.

    This allows you to keep your currency, so if the Drachma goes Weimar your current savings are still protected.

    You could do similar things with foreign currencies, but it is more complicated and the government might take active steps against you doing this (or at least use a tax/penalty to discourage you from doing this), something it can’t do with Bitcoins.

    As for the Greek government – hell if I know what they are going to do. They seem pretty fucked regardless of their actions at this point.

  21. #21 |  Other Sean | 

    Bob,

    What johnl said. The idea is not that some broke-ass European state would adopt Bitcoin as it official currency. No,no, no…that wouldn’t save Greece, it would just turn Bitcoin into a disaster and totally defeat its purpose.

    The idea is that people will spontaneously start using an exchange medium that is neither the euro nor the drachma, just as people started using foreign money in Zimbabwe or, you know, tubs of laundry detergent in Detroit.

  22. #22 |  Maggie McNeill | 

    #6 & 7 – How very strange! It seems to have duplicated from the second link, maybe when I put in the picture. Well, it’s fixed now; thank you!

  23. #23 |  Kevin | 

    HuffPo comments on Boaz basically boil down to, “lol, did you just say something I disagree with? Pretty sure that means I can just ignore you now.”

    Self-evidently feeble-minded.

  24. #24 |  Other Sean | 

    Kevin,

    You’re being unfair to the rich diversity of opinion over at HuffPo. Several commenters had already decided to ignore Boaz before he said anything at all.

    “What kind of conversation do you usually have here?”

    “Oh, we got both kinds: liberal AND progressive.”

  25. #25 |  Cornellian | 

    A few lines from the article about funding religious schools:

    “Rep. Valarie Hodges, R-Watson, says she had no idea that Gov. Bobby Jindal’s overhaul of the state’s educational system might mean taxpayer support of Muslim schools.”

    “Hodges mistakenly assumed that “religious” meant “Christian.””

    “Hodges said she was sympathetic with the Governor’s overall goal of bringing “meaningful reform to our education system, because we are next to the last in the nation.””

    It seems to me that it’s not entirely a coincidence that they’re “next to last in the nation” in education and they elect people who “assume ‘religious’ meant ‘Christian’.”

  26. #26 |  Leon Wolfeson | 

    @16 – Pfft. Not the real problem. The real problem is silent editing by moderators to change the meaning of posts.

    (And why would they not use a currency like the USD which is stable, or (I can practically guarantee this…) keep using the Euro for many things? The only time you’ll “need” drachmas is when dealing with the government).

    @19 – That’s right, I’m not parroting your Party Line! I’m a twoll!

    You’re no different from the posters at the HuffPost doing the same thing the other way.

  27. #27 |  Other Sean | 

    So the HuffPo hall monitors don’t just remove posts, they edit them? Seriously? That’s something I did not know.

    One thing you can be sure of, Leon, is that once this blog makes the jump to HuffPo, you’ll never have to argue with the likes of me again. There’s a fair chance I get banned the first week. Hell, I may not get a single comment off before they boot me.

    The upshot is that’ll save me the embarrassment of having to post under a banner that says: “Other Sean – Zero Fans”.

  28. #28 |  Bergman | 

    It always astounds me how many people assume “freedom of religion” means “freedom to pick whatever Christian denomination you want.” As if other beliefs are somehow not real religions.

  29. #29 |  Leon Wolfeson | 

    @27 – I no longer have a HuffPo account, or any posts there, after that.

    I suspect it isn’t policy, but they refused to investigate, so…

  30. #30 |  Pete | 

    #8 – “I am amused by the griping about Obama saving the Auto Unions and not the auto industry”

    Five or six years ago (before GM and Chrysler tanked), I remember reading a Time Magazine article that explained that the average United Auto Worker made more money than the average college professor, when comparing total value of wages, overtime, vacation pay, benefits. I can’t find that article online, but even the NY Times confirms that wages plus benefits for the average UAW worker is $55 hour (compared to Honda and Toyota’s $45/hour) which is more than double what the typical American manufacturing worker makes.

    So here’s the key. When Obama spent $23 billion (I think) to bail out GM and Chrysler, his plan resulted in zero reduction to wages/benefits for current UAW employees. As such, the bailout MAY HAVE saved some union jobs in the short run (probably not, since these companies would likely have been bought and continued to operate), but the bailout did zilch to improve the competitiveness of these companies since they are still hamstrung by UAW. Stand by for future bailouts.

  31. #31 |  Bob | 

    #18 johnl

    Bob it is not entirely up to the Greek government what currency Greeks use for their savings or business dealings. USD, Boomers tokens, or candy can all be used for trading so long as both parties agree.

    Um. It kind of IS up to the Greek government. Barter is fun, but it’s an inefficient and clunky way to buy things. People use money because it works so well. You can’t get a foreign country’s money unless it’s made available to you by the banks in YOUR country… You can’t arbitrarily say “Hey! My account is in USD now!” if you’re in a country that doesn’t use USD as it’s currency. You have to literally purchase actual USD in literal greenbacks. And you are only going to do that with the local government’s blessing. Not only that, but if your country is currently tanking… you will pay a really bad exchange rate.

    #20 Matt

    @Bob

    Think of it like this: All of the money you make you put into bitcoins. You buy what you can with Bitcoins, but with most things you’ll need the national currency – the Drachma. So whenever you need to buy something, you quickly convert the Bitcoins to Drachma at the rate at that time.

    This allows you to keep your currency, so if the Drachma goes Weimar your current savings are still protected.

    You could do similar things with foreign currencies, but it is more complicated and the government might take active steps against you doing this (or at least use a tax/penalty to discourage you from doing this), something it can’t do with Bitcoins.

    As for the Greek government – hell if I know what they are going to do. They seem pretty fucked regardless of their actions at this point.

    First, you can’t just put your money into Bitcoins. You can only buy them IF they are available in your currency. If EVERYONE in your country is trying to buy them, the exchange rate will go to hell. In addition, I think I can guarantee that the conversion BACK into drachma (To avoid the hyperinflation.) will have such an exchange rate as to make it either impossible, or at the least, make it not effective to have bought the Bitcoin in the first place.

    And yes, they are fairly boned at this point. This is the path of debt. It ends in failure.

    #21 Other Sean

    Bob,

    What johnl said. The idea is not that some broke-ass European state would adopt Bitcoin as it official currency. No,no, no…that wouldn’t save Greece, it would just turn Bitcoin into a disaster and totally defeat its purpose.

    The idea is that people will spontaneously start using an exchange medium that is neither the euro nor the drachma, just as people started using foreign money in Zimbabwe or, you know, tubs of laundry detergent in Detroit.

    LOL You did not just reference the use of Tide in drug sales. The issue there is the dubious bargaining posture of low level drug dealers, not the value of a bottle of Tide. In Zimbabwe, the currency collapsed… and the USD replaced it. Unfortunately, the Zimbabwean government is sucking at supporting it… so you can’t get new bills to replace worn ones, or make change because the supply of US coins is seriously low.

    Riddle me this: If your currency collapses, and you (as a market force in your society) decide to use a foreign currency to replace it… HOW will you get new bills to replace worn ones? HOW will you get sufficient coins with which to make change? Hmm? Will a private company do it? There’s no profit in this! Let me explain what will happen… Counterfeiting will step in.

    Oh! Too late:
    http://bulawayo24.com/index-id-news-sc-national-byo-5510-article-Fake+dollar+notes+flood+Zimbabwean+shops.html

  32. #32 |  that guy | 

    Sorry to jump in Bob, but did you just say private banks would be unable to make a profit issuing bank notes?

  33. #33 |  Eric Hanneken | 

    Sean Hannity: “You are the exception to the rule. Here you’re a libertarian that is not arguing to legalize drugs because you want to use drugs. . . . You are the exception to the rule for libertarians. You know that, right?”

    Penn Jillette: “I do know that. But I also do know that the most important thing is for the government to allow more freedom than I want for myself.”

    I can’t recall meeting a single self-described libertarian who has ever made a case for drug legalization based on, “I want to use them.” That is a calumny, and I’m sorry Penn Jillette didn’t challenge Sean Hannity when he uttered it.

  34. #34 |  Linda | 

    Will the guest bloggers be keeping the site up to date on Puppycide cases? If so, here is a recent one.
    http://www.ksla.com/story/18949365/outrage-grows-over-police-shooting-of-dog-named-monkey

  35. #35 |  Other Sean | 

    Bob,

    You wrote: “You can’t get a foreign country’s money unless it’s made available to you by the banks in YOUR country… You can’t arbitrarily say “Hey! My account is in USD now!”

    Actually it’s quite easy to do that very thing with E-Trade, Scottrade, etc. I live in the U.S. but I always keep some money denominated in Canadian, Australian, Swedish, Swiss. It’s like Matt said. When the need arises you switch back to dollars at the current rate, having avoided most of the devaluation that came between.

    Of course there is some political risk of confiscation in the event of a major economic collapse, but that’s just unavoidable. If I were a Greek looking to save some money (not too many of those running around), I’d be happy to risk that before taking some of the other options available to me.

  36. #36 |  Bob | 

    #35 Other Sean

    Bob,

    You wrote: “You can’t get a foreign country’s money unless it’s made available to you by the banks in YOUR country… You can’t arbitrarily say “Hey! My account is in USD now!”

    Actually it’s quite easy to do that very thing with E-Trade, Scottrade, etc. I live in the U.S. but I always keep some money denominated in Canadian, Australian, Swedish, Swiss. It’s like Matt said. When the need arises you switch back to dollars at the current rate, having avoided most of the devaluation that came between.

    Of course there is some political risk of confiscation in the event of a major economic collapse, but that’s just unavoidable. If I were a Greek looking to save some money (not too many of those running around), I’d be happy to risk that before taking some of the other options available to me.

    That’s all well and good when the exchange rates are stable, but as soon as inflation (Or hyperinflation) rears it’s ugly head in your local currency… that’s all over.

    When you have currency in a brokerage account like E-Trade or Scottrade, etc. It’s not actual currency. It’s a number in an account. Every actor involved (You, the brokerage company, the companies THEY are dealing with…) are subject to their local government’s laws and problems.

    It’s easy to convert currency when the conditions are stable… but when the shit hits the fan, that stability is over. You can’t just switch from one currency to another if the one your switching FROM is one no one wants.

  37. #37 |  Matt | 

    First, you can’t just put your money into Bitcoins. You can only buy them IF they are available in your currency. If EVERYONE in your country is trying to buy them, the exchange rate will go to hell. In addition, I think I can guarantee that the conversion BACK into drachma (To avoid the hyperinflation.) will have such an exchange rate as to make it either impossible, or at the least, make it not effective to have bought the Bitcoin in the first place.

    1. If you are a greek wanting a stable currency, and the government has cut off your easy ways to convert your local currency to foreign currency (exactly as you said in #36) you basically have one choice; the only currency exchange the government cannot shut down. There will certainly be a method to convert Drachmas to Bitcoins if there is a demand for Bitcoins by people with Drachmas.

    2. What about the other way? Well, in Greece you’ll need to pay taxes, utilities, and other things in Drachmas. Anyone who currently has Drachmas but wants Bitcoins (because they have enough cash but want to save some from Weimarization) will want your Bitcoins. Thus exchange in both directions could happen. The exchange will only break down if it isn’t possible to buy goods or services with Drachmas. And if that is the case you are fucked regardless.

  38. #38 |  Cornellian | 

    There’s a very interesting story in the April 2012 ABA Journal about the state bar disbarment proceeding against former Maricopa County AZ County Attorney Andrew Thomas. One fascinating detail – they had to fly in lawyers from Colorado to prosecute the case and those lawyers had to stay in a bunch of different hotels under assumed names for security reasons.

  39. #39 |  johnl | 

    Bob if you expect your local currency to devalue, then you get rid of any you are holding ASAP and put only good money into savings. Europeans are too well informed and have too many options these days for a devaluation to be an efficient wealth tax. Greece needs to find another way to renegotiate its public employee salaries and public pensions.

  40. #40 |  Pi Guy | 

    Love this Penn Jillette quote: “I don’t know what’s right for everyone else.”

    That’s as succint and complete a definition of libertarianism as there is.

  41. #41 |  marco73 | 

    It is interesting to read the argument that if GM and Chrysler had not been bailed out, they’d have shut their doors and completely, taking the whole auto supply chain with them. That same supply chain also creates parts for Ford and the domestic operations of Toyota, Honda, BMW, Mercedes, etc.
    When an airline declares bankruptcy, the planes keep flying until a debt agreement can be worked out, sometimes taking several months. Even with a chapter 7 bankruptcy, with a liquidation of assets, planes keep flying and the public keeps moving. They just repaint the planes.
    There is no reason to believe that a liquidation of GM or Chrysler would be any different. Certainly there would be disruption, but America and the world need cars, and just because the Chevy or Dodge nameplates would be owned by someone else, doesn’t mean that cars and trucks wouldn’t be built.
    The bailout preserved the wages of the older union workers for GM and Chrysler. Newer hired union workers are getting screwed, with the 2 tier wage scale in place. But that is old news to anyone who has been paying attention:
    http://newsbusters.org/content/governmentgeneral-motors-uaw-hose-long-time-members-twice-two-weeks

  42. #42 |  perlhaqr | 

    Holy fuck! Europe uses a lot of drugs!

  43. #43 |  Other Sean | 

    Finally, a point in Europe’s favor. It makes me wonder: if you take enough X, do their movies start to seem coherent, exciting, and unpretentious?

  44. #44 |  Yizmo Gizmo | 

    “It [Freeze!!] seems to be part of a TSA training exercise.”

    Er….training for what? Armageddon? Or passengers with too
    much shampoo? If it’s the former, I’ll go with it.

  45. #45 |  Warren Bonesteel | 

    I’m… distracted by the Roberts’ decision and by Professor Volokh’s query.

    It seems that my choice is to argue over whether to surrender my freedoms to the IRS…or to surrender them to the Commerce Department.

    My question is this: Why can’t people (sic. especially in government) leave me the hell alone?

  46. #46 |  Leon Wolfeson | 

    @41 – Aircraft are easily-transferable, expensive assets. Both are necessary for that to work. A factory isn’t easily-transferable, it’s in a fixed place.

    Moreover, that aircraft only needs repainting and some minor internal adjustments (seating plans, etc.) which are routine. Changing over to a different production line for a factory is expensive and time consuming, and that assumes the factory is right for what you need in the first place!

    Of course you want EVERYONE to be screwed over rather than just some, gotta get that share margin up!

  47. #47 |  Leon Wolfeson | 

    @45 – Because you don’t live in Somalia.

  48. #48 |  CharlesWT | 

    A woman celebrating the weekend before her 25th birthday was fatally shot Sunday when she hugged an off-duty police officer while dancing at a party, causing the officer’s service weapon to fire, according to police and her mother.
    [...]

    Police: Hug Triggers Officer’s Gun, Kills Woman

  49. #49 |  Matt | 

    @48

    That story doesn’t smell right. Why would a hug make a gun go off? Was the gun in a holster? Holstered guns don’t fire, that’s sort of the whole point of a holster. Was it not holstered? Did he just stuff it in his waistband? If so that is criminally negligent. I find it hard to believe a non-member of the brutalizing class in such a situation wouldn’t face some sort of criminal negligence charges in these circumstances.

  50. #50 |  Bob | 

    #37 Matt

    There will certainly be a method to convert Drachmas to Bitcoins if there is a demand for Bitcoins by people with Drachmas.

    There will be a demand for the drachma to Bitcoin conversion…. and vice-versa too. Bit it’s small, it’s currency laundering for drug transactions. Now, I don’t have a dog in that fight… as far as I’m concerned, drugs should be legal. But the important consideration is that the total transaction level is small. The net demand for transfers will be totally lopsided on the drachma side. And that will drive it’s exchange rate to … well, sub optimal levels.

    What about the other way? Well, in Greece you’ll need to pay taxes, utilities, and other things in Drachmas.

    That won’t be a problem. That’s why they’ll devalue the new currency. And by “Not a problem”, I don’t mean “Not a problem for the people trying to pay their bills.” Those people will be screwed.

    Smart Greeks have already transferred their bank accounts to other countries in the EU, or have pulled out their cash in Euros and stashed it in their mattresses. (So to speak.) But “Smart” doesn’t drive the human race, so there are still plenty of deposits left in Greek banks to be confiscated in the Euro/drachma conversion.

    I don’t want to seem like a Gloomy Gus here, I really want to see this work out. But I just don’t think it will. To me? I think the solution is obvious: Greece needs to dump it’s long held political system of corruption and control and just let businesses operate.

    I don’t see that happening. I think this will all end very badly.

  51. #51 |  Bob | 

    #48 CharlesWT

    Police: Hug Triggers Officer’s Gun, Kills Woman

    According to Stephens, the woman “embraced the officer from behind, causing the holstered weapon to accidently discharge.” The bullet punctured Miller’s lung and hit her heart, and she died at a hospital.

    I call bullshit on this. The only possible way this could happen is with a cross draw, under arm holster with a revolver in it. Even then, the revolver would have to have been almost completely on the guy’s back in order to get a heart shot. It’s just impossible.

    What really happened?

  52. #52 |  Matt | 

    There will be a demand for the drachma to Bitcoin conversion…. and vice-versa too. Bit it’s small, it’s currency laundering for drug transactions.

    What? This isn’t about drug transactions. This is about ordinary Greeks who want a stable place to store their currency if the state-issued currency starts going to shit. Isn’t that what we are talking about? That’s what I was talking about. Wouldn’t those people naturally be interested in Bitcoins, and willing to convert their Drachmas to Bitcoins? I’m not sure I understand your argument.

    That won’t be a problem. That’s why they’ll devalue the new currency. And by “Not a problem”, I don’t mean “Not a problem for the people trying to pay their bills.” Those people will be screwed.

    The people trying to pay their bills will not have a problem and will be screwed? What? I’m not sure I follow? The point is that since you’ll need Drachmas to pay for many things there will be a demand for Drachmas by people with Bitcoins, even if the currency is starting to inflate.

    Smart Greeks have already transferred their bank accounts to other countries in the EU, or have pulled out their cash in Euros and stashed it in their mattresses.

    Would you trust Euros at this point in time? Sure Greece is in worse shape than Europe as a whole, but not by much. That’s the point of Bitcoins, its an international currency that won’t be affected by Europe exploding.

  53. #53 |  Boyd Durkin | 

    they would have been pushed into Chapter 7 liquidation without the government capital and taken their supply chains with them.

    Nope. Not even close to being right.

  54. #54 |  Leon Wolfeson | 

    @52 – Why would there be? Bitcoins are an online currency, you don’t need one to pay food or rent. Utilities, sure…

    Bitcoins have been MASSIVELY volatile in price. USD is the smart bet, or GBP if you’re not thinking straight.

  55. #55 |  Sean L. | 

    Re: Penn Gillette wasting his vote:

    I live in California. A vote for Romney is a total waste. He has ZERO chance of winning the state. (Same goes for you if you’re in New York or Illinois.)

    So exactly how is that any different for me than voting for Gary Johnson?

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