Late Morning Links

Friday, June 22nd, 2012

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128 Responses to “Late Morning Links”

  1. #1 |  Other Sean | 

    Demize 103,

    You got that wrong. Your logic doesn’t let you seize my house from me. It demands that we BOTH surrender our homes to someone else – in my case, the most likely claimants would be Cherokee.

  2. #2 |  demize! | 

    Dude I would say continously residency for over 2000 years is pretty frigging indigenous. In fact this is without going into the ethno-anthropology that shows the Palestiniains as the original Jewish population converted to Islam and Christianity. But your utter chauvinism is apparent, have you not heard of Al Andalus? My Saphardic ancestors did quite well there, not too good after the reconquista. You know The Inquisition DUNDUNDUN! Aside from your chauvinism your knowledge of Levantine culture is also lacking as Palestine was completely culturally and religiously mixed and tolerant under The Ottoman Empire and before. In fact the entire Arabic world had huge Jewish populations. These thousands of years of Jewish-Arabic cultures were sacrificed on the alter of Herzl and Weitzmann not to mention Jabotinsky and Begin.

  3. #3 |  demize! | 

    PS. mine would be Algonquin. I don’t see thousands of them lining up at checkpoints each morning to get permits to work in Manhattan. You see what I’m saying here?

  4. #4 |  Duncan20903 | 

    In 2010 more than 22% of the homicides in Vermont were committed by persons with dementia. Their victims were other persons with dementia.

  5. #5 |  el coronado | 

    Hey, quick little question for ya, demize –

    If “palestine” is the idyllic wonderland of peace and tolerance that you’re (mendaciously) claiming it is, why then do whichever bunch of thugs that run the place – first fatah, now hamas? – why is it they drag their fellow brother “palestinians” out into the street and shoot them in broad daylight for the unforgivable, heinous “crime” of…….selling land or structures to a Jew??

    Why is that, hmmmm? Doesn’t sound all that peaceful or religiously idyllic, does it. In fact, it kinda makes what you’ve been saying sound…let us be charitable, here….sound *incorrect*, don’t it.

    Also, before you reflexively squawk that all that is a “Jew lie”, google the phrase ‘palestinians killed for selling land to Jews” and explain to me how such a “lie” could rack up _10.6 million_ results? Jew Black Magic? Jewish control of the media? Might it be Obama’s fault somehow??

  6. #6 |  Other Sean | 


    You can’t be all bad – your “Inquisition DUNDUNDUN” comment worked both as a Monty Python reference and a musical cue to Mel Brooks.

    Unfortunately your college professors sold you a load of nonsense about “tolerance” in the medieval caliphate. They were actually just trying to smear the West, but to do that I guess they didn’t mind flattering some various undeserving parties in the bargain.

    Know what it was like to be a Jew under the Islamic empire? It sucked. Know what it was like to be a Muslim under the the Islamic empire? It sucked. Know what it was like to be any kind of individual human being under any kind of cultural or political system until very, very, recently? It sucked.

    Israel is one of a very few places on earth that only half sucks today.

    And you said it yourself: even with all its faults, Israel is still the place where thousands of Palestinians want to go for work.

    Think what might happen if they could only stop their brothers and cousins from trying to blow the place up! Those checkpoints and bulldozers would be gone in three years. It wasn’t easy making a nation of hardliners out of Jewish people. It took a lot of idiotic violence in the name of honor and of Allah to do that. It could be undone very easily. The Palestinians don’t even need to move away physically. They just need to move on.

  7. #7 |  Boyd Durkin | 

    Israel is one of a very few places on earth that only half sucks today.

    Because there’s an objective measure for these things. The myside bias of Israelis is equaled only by that of every other statist of the world.

  8. #8 |  Other Sean | 


    You’re right. There is no objective measure for these things. There is something much better than that: a complex set of SUBJECTIVE measures, as expressed in the choices of real life human beings.

    When people in large numbers decide they want out of one place and into another, that’s measure enough for me. It’s not my right to tell them they’re mistaken.

    Israel is one of the places people are trying to get into – even the people who believe Israel is inherently biased against them, are trying to find work there. That says something about the surrounding area, to be sure, but it says a lot about Israel, too.

  9. #9 |  CyniCAl | 

    #96 | Other Sean — “CyniCAL, A similar thought occurred to me. If someone arguing against SWAT raids had noted “the risk of such raids is massively concentrated among the poor”, that would have been taken as a non-controversial statement of fact. But when Swatzi McDouchenozzle says it with that attitude of cheery approval, it becomes a revolting glimpse into the world of free-fire-zone ghetto policing.”

    First, Sean, let me compliment you on your style … I find it witty, entertaining and all other similar adjectives. This blog is better for your presence in the comments. You really should write your own blog too, I would read it.

    Second, I obviously wasn’t condoning SWAT tactics or SWAT existence, not that you were implying that. I am as anti-state as the suburban bum that I am can be. But it is amahzing how easily some confuse pure statements of reality with support of said reality.

    Third, reality exists, and it exists for a reason. The romanticism of this blog aside, Mencius Moldbug of Unqualified Reservations has proved the necessity of the omnipotent sovereign, as have countless others before him. Where sovereignty is contested, there one finds mass death and destruction, as one finds in present-day Syria and wherever empires border each other. My anarchist self wishes it weren’t so, but humans have a lot of evolving to do before anarchy stops being the dirtiest word.

    In America, sovereignty is uncontested, but the sovereign still finds it useful to demonstrate its power through ultra-violent SWAT teams et. al., just to remind anyone who might contest sovereignty that it’s a bad idea. The police in America are the biggest, baddest gang on the block. And Douchey McDoucheDouche SWAT team roid freak knows it and is just spreading the word via the 1st Amendment. He’s a symptom, not a cause.

    We are all contestants in the SWAT team raid lottery of life, and I hate to admit the possibility, but all Americans might be better off this way rather than have sovereignty contests if the alternative is Syria, Iraq or Afghanistan.

    And if modern policing in American is inevitable, then the privileged wealthy who own this country would simply rather the SWAT teams lavish their attention on the non-wealthy. LOL life. Maybe they’ll be the last to be eaten by the crocodile. Then we can all laugh about it.

    Sorry for the ramble, it’s been a while, keep up the lively commenting.

  10. #10 |  CyniCAl | 

    “I found them all to be similar young men, uniformly indoctrinated into a sub-culture of swaggering machismo and casual brutality.”

    A concise definition of a gang if I ever heard one.

  11. #11 |  Whiplash | 

    That Gabe, he know Violence (according to him)

  12. #12 |  Other Sean | 

    CyniCAL, (thanks first of all for your many kind words)

    “Where sovereignty is contested, there one finds mass death and destruction… my anarchist self wishes it weren’t so, but humans have a lot of evolving to do before anarchy stops being the dirtiest word.”

    The state is definitely one of those animals that becomes more dangerous when wounded.

    Perhaps this proves me a hypocrite, but if a mass anarchist movement poured out into the streets tomorrow, I wouldn’t join it. As you point out, we are not ready. At best, we might end up with 1793. At worst, it would be the Paris Commune meets Phnom Penh.

    Unlike everyone else around me, I never got excited about the so-called Arab Spring. I still cannot believe how many people remain blind to the creeping menace of those events. When I see the crowds in Syria I think: “There goes a mob of people who’ve never heard of subjective utility or public choice, never read Animal Farm or Nineteen-Eighty-Four, never watched an atheist debate a rabbi on Youtube. Any society they manage to build will be a prolific exporter of human misery.”

    Speaking of Orwell, I’m always haunted by this description of the resistance: “They are not an organization in the sense we know. Nothing holds it together but an idea. There is no possibility of change in their lifetime. In the face of the thought police, they cannot act collectively. ”

    He was wrong about that. It turns out the regular police are quite enough to keep us where we are. For insecure people terrified of drifting away from the safety of consensus, well…the thoughts mostly just police themselves.

  13. #13 |  Frank Hummel | 

    I just spent the last 15 min reading thru this thread especially the “Palestine” issue. Let’s all get back to earth here and admit that land belongs to whomever is able and willing to defend it. It’s always been like that and it shall always be.

    There’s always gonna be some bleeding heart that sheds tears for some tribe/people/group which faded into the darkness of history because they were not strong or adaptable enough to survive. It happened to the Egyptians and the Mayans. It’s gonna even happen to the US someday (not today). Live with it, adapt and survive…

  14. #14 |  JAY BEE | 

    You didnt get my point about him being former SWAT. The consensus here seems to be once a cop always a cop or once a SWAT always a SWAT. Sorry I dont buy that bullshit. I believe the man is honest when he speaks about his conversion. Does that mean he sees eye to eye with many on this site? No he is not a reformed anti-cop cop but he is not a badge licker either.
    You also are reading into my words the exact same thing you read into his. I didnt say the SWAT team does not NEED to be thinking about right or wrong. I said they DONT! Thats completely different. Thats exactly how he put it as well. What he is telling you in this peice is
    “hey back in my bad old days I worked with these guys, I know how they are thinking when they stack up on your door. They dont care if you are innocent or guilty, they dont care if you have rights on not. All they care about is getting you in cuffs”
    Hes not telling you he thinks thats a good thing. Hes telling you its how it is.
    You can think he is being too harsh on the poor….fine whatever but you cant deny his advice on reducing your odds of a raid is not valid.
    I just think most of you saw “former SWAT officer” and got spun up about it. I think you are reading too much into it.

  15. #15 |  World’s Strangest | Thanks for Clearing That Up | 

    […] -via The Agitator | Ottawa […]

  16. #16 |  demize! | 

    @el coranado I don’t care if there are ten billion hits on Google, that’s like pointing me to a Wikipedia article about a controversial occurrence, not real helpful or verifiable. But that’s beside the fact Gaza is a closed entity, West Bank is behind the wall, and except for settlements, both “illegal” “legal” and outposts. So as for Arabs selling thier land lol, fucking Israelis just take it, declare it a closed military zone.. And don’t give me this ‘joo lie” shit I already intimated that I am one which I shouldn’t have to or like to do because it doesn’t matter. And @othersean I didn’t go to college so don’t go constructing an entire straw persona for me. What baffles me is why people who consistently stick up for the unarmed, assaulted underdog stop doing so in this one case. But this shit ain’t going nowhere #sigh

  17. #17 |  demize! | 

    “If “palestine” is the idyllic wonderland of peace and tolerance that you’re (mendaciously) claiming it is, why then do whichever bunch of thugs that run the place –first fatah, now hamas?” I think you better go back to Google marine because FATAH runs the West Bank under Abbas and HAMAS runs Gaza nominally at this current time.

  18. #18 |  demize! | 

    But you gotta love how the non aggression principle and property rights just go right out the window when its the wrong kind of people asserting them.

  19. #19 |  Z | 

    #102: “Yes I would choose the single State of Palestine where all are welcome as equals regardless of their Religion or Ethnicity, the arrangement prior to the mandate.”

    Ummm….. 1) The British went out of their way to minimize Jewish presence in Palestine. 2) The grand Mufti of Jerusalem shacked up with Hitler specifically to keep it that way, since dead Jews don’t migrate.

  20. #20 |  demize! | 

    @Z you seriously dont know wtf your talking about. Do like I do when people are discussing nuclear physics and stfu. Then went out of there way when the Irgun blew up the King David Hotel, The British High Command HQ? UMMMMM. The Balfour Agreement? Dude just shut up.

  21. #21 |  Other Sean | 


    You wondered: “What baffles me is why people who consistently stick up for the unarmed, assaulted underdog stop doing so in this one case.”

    Be baffled no more: those of us who didn’t arbitrarily start the clock in 1947 (or 1917 if you prefer) recognize the Jews as the most assaulted and least armed underdogs in the known history of the world. The fact that they’ve been armed for the last few milliseconds of geologic time doesn’t change that, and doesn’t distress me a bit.

    You also wrote: “But you gotta love how the non aggression principle and property rights just go right out the window when its the wrong kind of people asserting them.”

    This too is simple: we don’t believe in unilateral non-aggression, only in non-aggression pacts. And no one ever made a reliable non-aggression pact with the Jews before, so there was no agreement or principle for them to violate when they started building the Jewish state.

    You fundamentally misunderstand the origin of property rights. From a libertarian and especially an anarcho-capitalistic perspective, the Palestinian tribes didn’t own that land any more than the Queen of England legitimately owns Buckingham Palace. They had one collectivist tribal claim, the Jews had another. Since both of those claims are equally silly and illegitimate, it comes down to homesteading. And in that respect no one can deny that the Jewish claim proved to be vastly superior.

  22. #22 |  Monday Grab Bag Of Links … | The Pretense of Knowledge | 

    […] greatest crisis of American democracy is not getting your way. Still No Accountability for Torture Late Morning Links – The Agitator If it Moves, Regulate It – Stossel’s Take Orszag: Compulsory Voting for All! The Law of […]

  23. #23 |  Omri | 

    “In fact the entire Arabic world had huge Jewish populations. ”

    Know where they are today? Know why? They were not “sacrificed on the altar of Hertzl.” They suffered discrimination and brutal violence from the Arab Muslim populations, decided “fuck this” and left en masse. Just one more reason why your ideological blinders are making you particularly unable to grasp what’s happening in the Middle East.

  24. #24 |  demize! | 

    I’m arguing with uninformed dolts who’s concept of history comes from the back of a cereal box. If you choose to believe hasbara and myths that’s on you. But Google The USS.. Liberty. All you fine patriots and see what this plucky little shithole does to its allies then look. Up The Lavon Affair and then Sabra and Shatila and then Deir Yassin and then just keep on and then learn were the Jews were given refuge during the crusades and The Inquisition.

  25. #25 |  Omri | 

    First to use insults loses the argument. Nice going, demize. And for the record, my concept of history comes from living in the middle of it.

  26. #26 |  Other Sean | 


    I think Demize comes from the school of thought which holds that wretchedness and righteousness are the same thing.

    If the Jews of the world were still acting like helpless victims, I’m sure he’d have no trouble with them.

    If the Arab world ever stopped wallowing in superstition, prejudice, misogyny, tyranny, and vengeance, I’m sure he’d lose whatever sympathy he has misplaced there.

  27. #27 |  Deoxy | 

    Stop feeding the troll. Demize has decided on the set of facts in the world in his head, and nothing we say will change them. Please stop trying.

    Demize: I’ve done a LOT of looking into the Israel/Palestine thing, checking first sources whenever possible. You making making wild and ridiculous claims about how racist everyone is for not going along with the intended genocide of the Jews is not going to change my mind (or the mind of anyone else here) any more than us showing you real world evidence will change yours.

    But, since I’m stubborn to the point of stupidity:
    -Every nation in the middle east has a sizable (or larger) portion of Arab citizens (including Israel). Only one has more than a tiny handful of Jews, and most have absolutely none. This did not happen by accident.
    -Jordan and other neighboring nations actually made it illegal for Palestinian Arabs (and in come cases, even their descendants) to become citizens of those nations. Israel has Palestinian citizens. The “permanent refuge camps” in Gaza and the West Bank are there because the neighboring countries found it politcally useful to create them.
    -Israel has offered the contested lands to its foes on more than one occasion with the simple terms of “stop trying to kill us”. Hamas (and other groups) have founding and controlling documents stating that their intent and reason for existence is to kill the Jews.
    -If given the power to kill all the Jews in Israel, which Arab group would not use it? Israel HAS and HAS HAD FOR SOME TIME the power to kill ALL the Palestinians, if they so desired, and they have not done so.

    I could go on. No, I don’t AT ALL expect to convince you. I would appreciate it, though, if you would respect us enough to not call US racists for looking at carefully and thoroughly gathered facts and making decisions without account for race.

  28. #28 |  el coronado | 

    Aw, c’mon, we can’t leave the troll with a reasonable and ciivil denouement – what fun would that be??

    Here, lemme try. Ahhh, Jordan! Prosperous and Gentle Land of nectar and honey, long populated by the followers of the prophet, and thus presumably well-schooled in the sacred islamic tenets of peace and charity and brotherhood, especially towards their fellow moslems.

    So why is it that Jordan killed more palestinians in one ‘black’ September than Israel has in 60+ years? How is that? More to the point, WHY did Jordan feel the need to kill 20,000 of their peaceful and tolerant palestinian brethren? Why’d they do that, hmmm?