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	<title>Comments on: Woman Set Ablaze. Florida Fines Her.</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.theagitator.com/2012/06/16/woman-set-ablaze-florida-fines-her/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2012/06/16/woman-set-ablaze-florida-fines-her/</link>
	<description>It rankles me when somebody tries to tell somebody what to do.</description>
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		<title>By: FreeWestRadio.com &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Woman Set Ablaze. Florida Fines Her.</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2012/06/16/woman-set-ablaze-florida-fines-her/comment-page-1/#comment-3457738</link>
		<dc:creator>FreeWestRadio.com &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Woman Set Ablaze. Florida Fines Her.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Jun 2012 21:32:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=25045#comment-3457738</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] by The Agitator [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] by The Agitator [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Before It's News</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2012/06/16/woman-set-ablaze-florida-fines-her/comment-page-1/#comment-3443002</link>
		<dc:creator>Before It's News</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jun 2012 03:04:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=25045#comment-3443002</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] by The Agitator [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] by The Agitator [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Militant Libertarian &#187; Woman Set Ablaze. Florida Fines Her.</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2012/06/16/woman-set-ablaze-florida-fines-her/comment-page-1/#comment-3442913</link>
		<dc:creator>Militant Libertarian &#187; Woman Set Ablaze. Florida Fines Her.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jun 2012 02:32:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=25045#comment-3442913</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Posted: June 24th, 2012 by Militant Libertarian by The Agitator [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Posted: June 24th, 2012 by Militant Libertarian by The Agitator [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Marcus</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2012/06/16/woman-set-ablaze-florida-fines-her/comment-page-1/#comment-3410915</link>
		<dc:creator>Marcus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Jun 2012 13:44:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=25045#comment-3410915</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Obviously this appears to be a very stupid and callous move by the FL government.  But lets look at this a different way for a second.  It seems most people are looking for a result driven action by the gov.

Assuming that you do not object to the towing company getting paid for towing, and further assuming that you do not think the property owner/business operator should be on the hook for the charges, who SHOULD be?  Obviously the emotional reaction is that the victim should not get this bill, but how does the gov make that happen?

Does the group sending the bill, which is not the cops or the mayor office, but some groups that gets invoices from XYZ towing company, and by statute/ordinance/law has to invoice the owners individually and severally for those charges.  Should this group also initiate an investigation to find why the car was there, and what happened to the owners?  How much would this investigation cost?  Is it reasonable to expect this level of investigation?  Is it reasonable to lay this at the feet of the government?  The tow truck driver probably had a good idea what happened, as they were at the scene, should they have eaten the cost?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Obviously this appears to be a very stupid and callous move by the FL government.  But lets look at this a different way for a second.  It seems most people are looking for a result driven action by the gov.</p>
<p>Assuming that you do not object to the towing company getting paid for towing, and further assuming that you do not think the property owner/business operator should be on the hook for the charges, who SHOULD be?  Obviously the emotional reaction is that the victim should not get this bill, but how does the gov make that happen?</p>
<p>Does the group sending the bill, which is not the cops or the mayor office, but some groups that gets invoices from XYZ towing company, and by statute/ordinance/law has to invoice the owners individually and severally for those charges.  Should this group also initiate an investigation to find why the car was there, and what happened to the owners?  How much would this investigation cost?  Is it reasonable to expect this level of investigation?  Is it reasonable to lay this at the feet of the government?  The tow truck driver probably had a good idea what happened, as they were at the scene, should they have eaten the cost?</p>
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		<title>By: parsimon</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2012/06/16/woman-set-ablaze-florida-fines-her/comment-page-1/#comment-3406924</link>
		<dc:creator>parsimon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jun 2012 20:09:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=25045#comment-3406924</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks for the clarification, StrangeOne.  I admit I don&#039;t think Radley believes in doing away with all government, or all police forces, but I confess I was frustrated by the closing line, which seemed, indeed, to suggest that your government is not (ever) here to help you.

It&#039;s part of a larger frustration:  Radley&#039;s work in documenting police abuses is very welcome and necessary, but every once in a while I feel as though it&#039;s a constant barrage of things done wrong, with very little, or no, acknowledgment of what&#039;s done right, what&#039;s valuable and helpful and essential.  It can feed into the increasingly prevalent sentiment among champions of the private sector that public sector workers are always corrupt, bloated, and leech-like.  And that is simply not the case.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the clarification, StrangeOne.  I admit I don&#8217;t think Radley believes in doing away with all government, or all police forces, but I confess I was frustrated by the closing line, which seemed, indeed, to suggest that your government is not (ever) here to help you.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s part of a larger frustration:  Radley&#8217;s work in documenting police abuses is very welcome and necessary, but every once in a while I feel as though it&#8217;s a constant barrage of things done wrong, with very little, or no, acknowledgment of what&#8217;s done right, what&#8217;s valuable and helpful and essential.  It can feed into the increasingly prevalent sentiment among champions of the private sector that public sector workers are always corrupt, bloated, and leech-like.  And that is simply not the case.</p>
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		<title>By: StrangeOne</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2012/06/16/woman-set-ablaze-florida-fines-her/comment-page-1/#comment-3403376</link>
		<dc:creator>StrangeOne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jun 2012 04:15:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=25045#comment-3403376</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Parismon, you&#039;re analogy has nothing to do with Radley&#039;s claims. Hes not an anarchist and has never advocated the total elimination of government. 

A better analogy is if everyone operated under the assumption that auto-repair shops were always honest and helpful. But if you pay attention you notice that many auto-repair shops are frequently disingenuous and rude. You then make a blog pointing out as many bad auto-repair shops as you can find. Then when you mock the common belief in the universal integrity of auto-repair shops some wise ass comes along and declares that you think &quot;we should do away with repair shops altogether&quot;. Even though you have never advocated this, nor would any reasonable person imply as such from your posts on the subject.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Parismon, you&#8217;re analogy has nothing to do with Radley&#8217;s claims. Hes not an anarchist and has never advocated the total elimination of government. </p>
<p>A better analogy is if everyone operated under the assumption that auto-repair shops were always honest and helpful. But if you pay attention you notice that many auto-repair shops are frequently disingenuous and rude. You then make a blog pointing out as many bad auto-repair shops as you can find. Then when you mock the common belief in the universal integrity of auto-repair shops some wise ass comes along and declares that you think &#8220;we should do away with repair shops altogether&#8221;. Even though you have never advocated this, nor would any reasonable person imply as such from your posts on the subject.</p>
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		<title>By: parsimon</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2012/06/16/woman-set-ablaze-florida-fines-her/comment-page-1/#comment-3402796</link>
		<dc:creator>parsimon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jun 2012 00:51:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=25045#comment-3402796</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;The government is here to help you, Ms. Breton.&lt;/i&gt;

You know, this conclusion -- or the reverse that&#039;s implied by the sarcasm -- isn&#039;t warranted.

If I may be permitted to indulge in an analogy, it&#039;s as though you got scammed by an auto repair shop and decided that that meant that you should never go to a repair shop, and in fact we should do away with repair shops altogether.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>The government is here to help you, Ms. Breton.</i></p>
<p>You know, this conclusion &#8212; or the reverse that&#8217;s implied by the sarcasm &#8212; isn&#8217;t warranted.</p>
<p>If I may be permitted to indulge in an analogy, it&#8217;s as though you got scammed by an auto repair shop and decided that that meant that you should never go to a repair shop, and in fact we should do away with repair shops altogether.</p>
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		<title>By: JThompson</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2012/06/16/woman-set-ablaze-florida-fines-her/comment-page-1/#comment-3402701</link>
		<dc:creator>JThompson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jun 2012 00:07:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=25045#comment-3402701</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@#27: Well yeah, the state could force Zuccala to bill the attacker instead of the victim, but that would be &quot;Teh Evil Government Interfering With The Free Market&quot;, which is always wrong.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@#27: Well yeah, the state could force Zuccala to bill the attacker instead of the victim, but that would be &#8220;Teh Evil Government Interfering With The Free Market&#8221;, which is always wrong.</p>
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		<title>By: Mattocracy</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2012/06/16/woman-set-ablaze-florida-fines-her/comment-page-1/#comment-3401345</link>
		<dc:creator>Mattocracy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Jun 2012 18:00:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=25045#comment-3401345</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;The fees are coming from Zuccala’s Wrecker Service, the company that towed her car. Private companies…they’re here to help you&#039;

I could just as easily say that the state is at fault for one, not flipping the bill and then have the attacker reimburse the state or two, telling Zuccala to bill the attacker themselves.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The fees are coming from Zuccala’s Wrecker Service, the company that towed her car. Private companies…they’re here to help you&#8217;</p>
<p>I could just as easily say that the state is at fault for one, not flipping the bill and then have the attacker reimburse the state or two, telling Zuccala to bill the attacker themselves.</p>
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		<title>By: Woog</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2012/06/16/woman-set-ablaze-florida-fines-her/comment-page-1/#comment-3401307</link>
		<dc:creator>Woog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Jun 2012 17:44:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=25045#comment-3401307</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[There&#039;s another victim here: the gas station owner. Some violent sociopath attacked someone, and part of the fallout is a vehicle stranded someplace it shouldn&#039;t be.

Nothing is free, and if both the sociopath and the primary victim&#039;s names are on the title, well, welcome to the world of debt collection - it ain&#039;t pretty nowheres.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There&#8217;s another victim here: the gas station owner. Some violent sociopath attacked someone, and part of the fallout is a vehicle stranded someplace it shouldn&#8217;t be.</p>
<p>Nothing is free, and if both the sociopath and the primary victim&#8217;s names are on the title, well, welcome to the world of debt collection &#8211; it ain&#8217;t pretty nowheres.</p>
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		<title>By: plutosdad</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2012/06/16/woman-set-ablaze-florida-fines-her/comment-page-1/#comment-3400550</link>
		<dc:creator>plutosdad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Jun 2012 13:09:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=25045#comment-3400550</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I asked my fiance about this (she is a criminal defense attorney) and she says the police have victim advocates that will usually tell the person yes you will get billed for damage and emergency services, but here are the forms to fill out so the govt will pay them for you. Bills don&#039;t get sent directly to the government. I guess this is just easier for them since so many of these services are contracted out. Having worked on plenty of billing systems in IT, it is no small task to add special codes and processing for crime victims. And to have everyone that contracts with the county or city do that would be well pretty expensive and it would probably get screwed up.

The problem in this case is that the police did not let her know to expect this and how to get it paid. well that&#039;s one of the problems.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I asked my fiance about this (she is a criminal defense attorney) and she says the police have victim advocates that will usually tell the person yes you will get billed for damage and emergency services, but here are the forms to fill out so the govt will pay them for you. Bills don&#8217;t get sent directly to the government. I guess this is just easier for them since so many of these services are contracted out. Having worked on plenty of billing systems in IT, it is no small task to add special codes and processing for crime victims. And to have everyone that contracts with the county or city do that would be well pretty expensive and it would probably get screwed up.</p>
<p>The problem in this case is that the police did not let her know to expect this and how to get it paid. well that&#8217;s one of the problems.</p>
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		<title>By: supercat</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2012/06/16/woman-set-ablaze-florida-fines-her/comment-page-1/#comment-3400522</link>
		<dc:creator>supercat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Jun 2012 12:56:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=25045#comment-3400522</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[#11 &#124;  ms1170 &#124;  &quot;What good is a restraining order against someone who wants to kill you. I would think it would just make them madder.&quot;

The proper function of a restraining order obtained by X against Y is to put Y on notice that if Y seeks out X, and X shoots Y, the shooting will be considered self-defense, and thus if Y does not wish to get shot he should avoid X.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#11 |  ms1170 |  &#8220;What good is a restraining order against someone who wants to kill you. I would think it would just make them madder.&#8221;</p>
<p>The proper function of a restraining order obtained by X against Y is to put Y on notice that if Y seeks out X, and X shoots Y, the shooting will be considered self-defense, and thus if Y does not wish to get shot he should avoid X.</p>
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		<title>By: Laura</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2012/06/16/woman-set-ablaze-florida-fines-her/comment-page-1/#comment-3400479</link>
		<dc:creator>Laura</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Jun 2012 12:43:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=25045#comment-3400479</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[That&#039;s Florida, the someting-for-nothing state dominated by people who lived off the government one way or another all their lives, and now want to retire with tax cuts for themsleves and a balanced state budget by screwing over everyone else.

 Conservatism is a rationale for selfishness. And all too often libertarianism is an excuse for being a conservative.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s Florida, the someting-for-nothing state dominated by people who lived off the government one way or another all their lives, and now want to retire with tax cuts for themsleves and a balanced state budget by screwing over everyone else.</p>
<p> Conservatism is a rationale for selfishness. And all too often libertarianism is an excuse for being a conservative.</p>
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		<title>By: CyniCAl</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2012/06/16/woman-set-ablaze-florida-fines-her/comment-page-1/#comment-3399592</link>
		<dc:creator>CyniCAl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Jun 2012 06:24:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=25045#comment-3399592</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I just love it when State agents behave this way.  It makes it so clear to everyone involved just what they&#039;re all about.  And this is the State in all its glory.  There simply is no defending it.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just love it when State agents behave this way.  It makes it so clear to everyone involved just what they&#8217;re all about.  And this is the State in all its glory.  There simply is no defending it.</p>
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		<title>By: C.E.</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2012/06/16/woman-set-ablaze-florida-fines-her/comment-page-1/#comment-3399433</link>
		<dc:creator>C.E.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Jun 2012 05:19:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=25045#comment-3399433</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Well look, I&#039;m don&#039;t want to play devil&#039;s advocate, but my guess is that there is a process by which towing companies bill the state, and the state automatically turns around and bills the owners of vehicles.  The towing company just wants to be paid.  The state passes the bill through to the car owner.  The bill was probably sent out by computer.  It&#039;s not like some government official saw what happened to this poor woman and decided, &quot;Well, if she&#039;s going to get herself lit on fire, then she needs to pay for the towing!&quot;  The article doesn&#039;t say that the matter has even been brought to the attention of anyone responsible for sending her the bill.  

I&#039;m not saying that it&#039;s OK to bill her.  I&#039;m just saying that it&#039;s probably not an intentional, callous act.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well look, I&#8217;m don&#8217;t want to play devil&#8217;s advocate, but my guess is that there is a process by which towing companies bill the state, and the state automatically turns around and bills the owners of vehicles.  The towing company just wants to be paid.  The state passes the bill through to the car owner.  The bill was probably sent out by computer.  It&#8217;s not like some government official saw what happened to this poor woman and decided, &#8220;Well, if she&#8217;s going to get herself lit on fire, then she needs to pay for the towing!&#8221;  The article doesn&#8217;t say that the matter has even been brought to the attention of anyone responsible for sending her the bill.  </p>
<p>I&#8217;m not saying that it&#8217;s OK to bill her.  I&#8217;m just saying that it&#8217;s probably not an intentional, callous act.</p>
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		<title>By: Leon Wolfeson</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2012/06/16/woman-set-ablaze-florida-fines-her/comment-page-1/#comment-3398966</link>
		<dc:creator>Leon Wolfeson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Jun 2012 02:27:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=25045#comment-3398966</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@12 - Where does the constitution use those words?

Well, then.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@12 &#8211; Where does the constitution use those words?</p>
<p>Well, then.</p>
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		<title>By: Herb</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2012/06/16/woman-set-ablaze-florida-fines-her/comment-page-1/#comment-3398868</link>
		<dc:creator>Herb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Jun 2012 02:07:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=25045#comment-3398868</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The fees are coming from Zuccala&#039;s Wrecker Service, the company that towed her car.  Private companies...they&#039;re here to help you, Mr. Balko.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The fees are coming from Zuccala&#8217;s Wrecker Service, the company that towed her car.  Private companies&#8230;they&#8217;re here to help you, Mr. Balko.</p>
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		<title>By: plutosdad</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2012/06/16/woman-set-ablaze-florida-fines-her/comment-page-1/#comment-3398812</link>
		<dc:creator>plutosdad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Jun 2012 01:53:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=25045#comment-3398812</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This happens all the time. The problem is no one tells crime victims they can be reimbursed. She needs to check out this site or have someone help her fill out this paperwork:

http://myfloridalegal.com/pages.nsf/main/a13e1518920d0de685256cc6004bd490!OpenDocument


yes in a perfect world there would be no charges assessed at all.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This happens all the time. The problem is no one tells crime victims they can be reimbursed. She needs to check out this site or have someone help her fill out this paperwork:</p>
<p><a href="http://myfloridalegal.com/pages.nsf/main/a13e1518920d0de685256cc6004bd490!OpenDocument" rel="nofollow">http://myfloridalegal.com/pages.nsf/main/a13e1518920d0de685256cc6004bd490!OpenDocument</a></p>
<p>yes in a perfect world there would be no charges assessed at all.</p>
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		<title>By: ShelbyC</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2012/06/16/woman-set-ablaze-florida-fines-her/comment-page-1/#comment-3398708</link>
		<dc:creator>ShelbyC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Jun 2012 01:35:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=25045#comment-3398708</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I don&#039;t get it.  Who should pay to have her cars towed?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t get it.  Who should pay to have her cars towed?</p>
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		<title>By: croaker</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2012/06/16/woman-set-ablaze-florida-fines-her/comment-page-1/#comment-3398634</link>
		<dc:creator>croaker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Jun 2012 01:24:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=25045#comment-3398634</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Apparently in Florida you have to be an asshole to be selected as law enforcement.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Apparently in Florida you have to be an asshole to be selected as law enforcement.</p>
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