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	<title>Comments on: Tiny Victories</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.theagitator.com/2012/06/13/tiny-victories-5/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2012/06/13/tiny-victories-5/</link>
	<description>It rankles me when somebody tries to tell somebody what to do.</description>
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		<title>By: Ed</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2012/06/13/tiny-victories-5/comment-page-1/#comment-3400324</link>
		<dc:creator>Ed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Jun 2012 11:48:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=25014#comment-3400324</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[#16 I suggest preemptive strikes.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#16 I suggest preemptive strikes.</p>
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		<title>By: GreginOz</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2012/06/13/tiny-victories-5/comment-page-1/#comment-3391021</link>
		<dc:creator>GreginOz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Jun 2012 06:30:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=25014#comment-3391021</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Nope, I am not sorry to say this &amp; it&#039;s got to happen soon...

Point a gun at my 11 year old, coppa? You are a dead man walking, you just don&#039;t know it yet. I will hunt you down &amp; blow your fucking head off. No histrionics, no ranting or raving, just locate, identify, confirm, kill.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nope, I am not sorry to say this &amp; it&#8217;s got to happen soon&#8230;</p>
<p>Point a gun at my 11 year old, coppa? You are a dead man walking, you just don&#8217;t know it yet. I will hunt you down &amp; blow your fucking head off. No histrionics, no ranting or raving, just locate, identify, confirm, kill.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Rattner</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2012/06/13/tiny-victories-5/comment-page-1/#comment-3390726</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Rattner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Jun 2012 04:24:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=25014#comment-3390726</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[What&#039;s the big deal?  The courts are right when they say it is perfectly reasonable for the DEA, or any other armed state or federal agency, to kick down your door, shoot your dog, hold your kids at gunpoint, and ransack your house on suspicion of whatever crime they think you may be involved in.  And if you don&#039;t get &quot;down on the fucking ground&quot; quickly enough, or make a &quot;furtive move toward the waistband&quot; and get shot, well, the agent was only defending his own life, you monster.  

How could any sane adult think otherwise?  And while a surface reading of the constitution seems to specifically forbid these sorts of raids and the laws behind them, experts like highly trained government lawyers and supreme court judges read that same language and and can definitively assure us those words don&#039;t mean what ordinary people think they mean.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What&#8217;s the big deal?  The courts are right when they say it is perfectly reasonable for the DEA, or any other armed state or federal agency, to kick down your door, shoot your dog, hold your kids at gunpoint, and ransack your house on suspicion of whatever crime they think you may be involved in.  And if you don&#8217;t get &#8220;down on the fucking ground&#8221; quickly enough, or make a &#8220;furtive move toward the waistband&#8221; and get shot, well, the agent was only defending his own life, you monster.  </p>
<p>How could any sane adult think otherwise?  And while a surface reading of the constitution seems to specifically forbid these sorts of raids and the laws behind them, experts like highly trained government lawyers and supreme court judges read that same language and and can definitively assure us those words don&#8217;t mean what ordinary people think they mean.</p>
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		<title>By: croaker</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2012/06/13/tiny-victories-5/comment-page-1/#comment-3390222</link>
		<dc:creator>croaker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Jun 2012 01:15:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=25014#comment-3390222</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[#10 Though Scott Greenberg supports the Twinkie Defense in that case.

#13 Because then they wouldn&#039;t have the opportunity to use the fun military toys they brought along or the opportunity to instill fear into the neighborhood, which is the primary purpose of such raids.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#10 Though Scott Greenberg supports the Twinkie Defense in that case.</p>
<p>#13 Because then they wouldn&#8217;t have the opportunity to use the fun military toys they brought along or the opportunity to instill fear into the neighborhood, which is the primary purpose of such raids.</p>
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		<title>By: Personanongrata</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2012/06/13/tiny-victories-5/comment-page-1/#comment-3389225</link>
		<dc:creator>Personanongrata</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Jun 2012 21:22:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=25014#comment-3389225</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[PS  Why didn&#039;t DEA simply knock on the door?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>PS  Why didn&#8217;t DEA simply knock on the door?</p>
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		<title>By: Personanongrata</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2012/06/13/tiny-victories-5/comment-page-1/#comment-3389204</link>
		<dc:creator>Personanongrata</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Jun 2012 21:14:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=25014#comment-3389204</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;em&gt;The lawsuit comes from a mistaken drug raid (someone apparently wrote down the wrong license plate number) in which DEA agents pointed a gun at the head of an 11-year-old girl while she lay handcuffed on the floor.&lt;/em&gt;

&lt;em&gt;The panel also upheld Whalen’s ruling that there was nothing unreasonable about DEA agents cuffing and pointing guns at the girls’ parents while serving a search warrant for a consensual crime at the wrong house.&lt;/em&gt;

So much for the presumption of innocence and so much for proper weapons safety (eg pointing your weapon at the head of an 11 year old).

However would the panel for the US 9th Circut react if the &quot;professionals&quot; at the DEA kicked in their door in a mistaken raid and then had the &quot;professionals&quot; terrorize everyone found on site by waving loaded weapons at them?

Move along folks, nothing to see here, simply business as usual.

These types of para-military police actions remind me of a quote from Aleksandr I Solzhenitsyn&#039;s experiment in literary investigation, The Gulag Archipelago:

&lt;em&gt;&lt;b&gt;“And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if every Security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family? Or if, during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat there in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand?... The Organs would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin&#039;s thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt! If...if...We didn&#039;t love freedom enough. And even more – we had no awareness of the real situation.... We purely and simply deserved everything that happened afterward.” &lt;/b&gt;&lt;/em&gt;

I guess Americans &lt;em&gt;&lt;b&gt;didn&#039;t love freedom enough&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/em&gt; to cast of the repressive yoke of US government terrorism and tyranny&lt;em&gt;&lt;b&gt;we purely and simply&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/b&gt; deserve what will happen afterward.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>The lawsuit comes from a mistaken drug raid (someone apparently wrote down the wrong license plate number) in which DEA agents pointed a gun at the head of an 11-year-old girl while she lay handcuffed on the floor.</em></p>
<p><em>The panel also upheld Whalen’s ruling that there was nothing unreasonable about DEA agents cuffing and pointing guns at the girls’ parents while serving a search warrant for a consensual crime at the wrong house.</em></p>
<p>So much for the presumption of innocence and so much for proper weapons safety (eg pointing your weapon at the head of an 11 year old).</p>
<p>However would the panel for the US 9th Circut react if the &#8220;professionals&#8221; at the DEA kicked in their door in a mistaken raid and then had the &#8220;professionals&#8221; terrorize everyone found on site by waving loaded weapons at them?</p>
<p>Move along folks, nothing to see here, simply business as usual.</p>
<p>These types of para-military police actions remind me of a quote from Aleksandr I Solzhenitsyn&#8217;s experiment in literary investigation, The Gulag Archipelago:</p>
<p><em><b>“And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if every Security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family? Or if, during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat there in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand?&#8230; The Organs would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin&#8217;s thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt! If&#8230;if&#8230;We didn&#8217;t love freedom enough. And even more – we had no awareness of the real situation&#8230;. We purely and simply deserved everything that happened afterward.” </b></em></p>
<p>I guess Americans <em><b>didn&#8217;t love freedom enough</b></em> to cast of the repressive yoke of US government terrorism and tyranny<em><b>we purely and simply</b></em> deserve what will happen afterward.</p>
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		<title>By: Boyd Durkin</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2012/06/13/tiny-victories-5/comment-page-1/#comment-3388857</link>
		<dc:creator>Boyd Durkin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Jun 2012 19:03:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=25014#comment-3388857</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The state works hand-in-hand.  One hand punches you in the mouth and the other hand washes your blood off the knuckles.

Respect authority.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The state works hand-in-hand.  One hand punches you in the mouth and the other hand washes your blood off the knuckles.</p>
<p>Respect authority.</p>
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		<title>By: CyniCAl</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2012/06/13/tiny-victories-5/comment-page-1/#comment-3388307</link>
		<dc:creator>CyniCAl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Jun 2012 15:21:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=25014#comment-3388307</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Another dog bites man story.  The system supports the agents deputized to perpetuate the system. 

Shocker.

The system itself is beyond reproach and always will be, else the system ceases to exist.  Prime directive #1 is that the system takes priority above all else.

Only if it can be proved that a State agent acted solely for personal gain or in otherwise purely criminal fashion will the agent be punished or the methods called into question.  This is another way of saying that the agent in question has threatened the system, challenged its sovereignty by propounding his own.

Meanwhile, in CA yesterday, a jury found a Riverside cop guilty of rape for purely criminal behavior conducted outside the line of duty.  That&#039;s a victory, but a small one imposed by the State on itself and well after the harm was done.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Another dog bites man story.  The system supports the agents deputized to perpetuate the system. </p>
<p>Shocker.</p>
<p>The system itself is beyond reproach and always will be, else the system ceases to exist.  Prime directive #1 is that the system takes priority above all else.</p>
<p>Only if it can be proved that a State agent acted solely for personal gain or in otherwise purely criminal fashion will the agent be punished or the methods called into question.  This is another way of saying that the agent in question has threatened the system, challenged its sovereignty by propounding his own.</p>
<p>Meanwhile, in CA yesterday, a jury found a Riverside cop guilty of rape for purely criminal behavior conducted outside the line of duty.  That&#8217;s a victory, but a small one imposed by the State on itself and well after the harm was done.</p>
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		<title>By: Jack Dempsey</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2012/06/13/tiny-victories-5/comment-page-1/#comment-3388215</link>
		<dc:creator>Jack Dempsey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Jun 2012 14:43:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=25014#comment-3388215</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Tiny victory indeed.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tiny victory indeed.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike T</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2012/06/13/tiny-victories-5/comment-page-1/#comment-3388154</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike T</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Jun 2012 14:20:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=25014#comment-3388154</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[#6

It should be a shot across the bow to any claim of &quot;new professionalism&quot; that &quot;highly trained&quot; paramilitary professionals dealing with young female civilians have to use the same methods on them that they&#039;d use on grown men. That says that they possess no discernible competence at hand-to-hand combat or restraint, which would by definition be a mark of &quot;being highly trained.&quot; To say nothing of their inability to use psychological tools to control the situation.

What we really need is to end the armaments transfer program and create a national fund/mandate that provides for mandatory Aikido training for all law enforcement officers to complement their firearms qualifications.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#6</p>
<p>It should be a shot across the bow to any claim of &#8220;new professionalism&#8221; that &#8220;highly trained&#8221; paramilitary professionals dealing with young female civilians have to use the same methods on them that they&#8217;d use on grown men. That says that they possess no discernible competence at hand-to-hand combat or restraint, which would by definition be a mark of &#8220;being highly trained.&#8221; To say nothing of their inability to use psychological tools to control the situation.</p>
<p>What we really need is to end the armaments transfer program and create a national fund/mandate that provides for mandatory Aikido training for all law enforcement officers to complement their firearms qualifications.</p>
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		<title>By: Bronwyn</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2012/06/13/tiny-victories-5/comment-page-1/#comment-3388135</link>
		<dc:creator>Bronwyn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Jun 2012 14:09:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=25014#comment-3388135</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m getting a headache from squinting so hard, trying to find the victory in there.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m getting a headache from squinting so hard, trying to find the victory in there.</p>
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		<title>By: jmcross</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2012/06/13/tiny-victories-5/comment-page-1/#comment-3387705</link>
		<dc:creator>jmcross</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Jun 2012 11:40:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=25014#comment-3387705</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Certainly a teenager is more crafty than a dog, even a pit bull, and therefore perfectly capable of causing drug warriors to fear for their safety. Those children should be thankful that they weren&#039;t dropped in a hail of panicky gunfire. And the father who failed to OBEY the lawful commands of those protecting his family from the contraband that wasn&#039;t there is still owed a beatdown for his insolence.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Certainly a teenager is more crafty than a dog, even a pit bull, and therefore perfectly capable of causing drug warriors to fear for their safety. Those children should be thankful that they weren&#8217;t dropped in a hail of panicky gunfire. And the father who failed to OBEY the lawful commands of those protecting his family from the contraband that wasn&#8217;t there is still owed a beatdown for his insolence.</p>
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		<title>By: Ron</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2012/06/13/tiny-victories-5/comment-page-1/#comment-3387438</link>
		<dc:creator>Ron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Jun 2012 10:37:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=25014#comment-3387438</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Yeah, the last two paragraphs of this post makes it feel like yet another defeat.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, the last two paragraphs of this post makes it feel like yet another defeat.</p>
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		<title>By: Pricknick</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2012/06/13/tiny-victories-5/comment-page-1/#comment-3386211</link>
		<dc:creator>Pricknick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Jun 2012 04:03:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=25014#comment-3386211</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[We are so fucked if we call that a tiny victory.  It&#039;s a loss an lessor grounds.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We are so fucked if we call that a tiny victory.  It&#8217;s a loss an lessor grounds.</p>
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		<title>By: Burgers Allday</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2012/06/13/tiny-victories-5/comment-page-1/#comment-3385449</link>
		<dc:creator>Burgers Allday</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Jun 2012 23:41:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=25014#comment-3385449</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think his nam is relly Whelan and he was a Deputy district attorney of San Diego, CA from 1969 to 1989.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think his nam is relly Whelan and he was a Deputy district attorney of San Diego, CA from 1969 to 1989.</p>
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		<title>By: EH</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2012/06/13/tiny-victories-5/comment-page-1/#comment-3385117</link>
		<dc:creator>EH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Jun 2012 21:38:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=25014#comment-3385117</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Loving the ad in the sidebar for &quot;online degrees in criminal justice&quot; from, get this, &quot;American Military University.&quot; Not that they&#039;d be anything more than University of Phoenix debt-collectors, but...&lt;i&gt;shudder&lt;/i&gt;.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Loving the ad in the sidebar for &#8220;online degrees in criminal justice&#8221; from, get this, &#8220;American Military University.&#8221; Not that they&#8217;d be anything more than University of Phoenix debt-collectors, but&#8230;<i>shudder</i>.</p>
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		<title>By: 35-year lawyer</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2012/06/13/tiny-victories-5/comment-page-1/#comment-3385047</link>
		<dc:creator>35-year lawyer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Jun 2012 21:13:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=25014#comment-3385047</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[5 gets you 10 the District Court Judge was a former government lawyer.  

He&#039;d never allow this in HIS home (but of course not even DEA makes &quot;mistaken address&quot; raids on federal judges&#039; homes - the neighborhood is too expensive).  It is sooooooo difficult for the 
Aristocracy to &quot;feel the pain&quot; of the middle class.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>5 gets you 10 the District Court Judge was a former government lawyer.  </p>
<p>He&#8217;d never allow this in HIS home (but of course not even DEA makes &#8220;mistaken address&#8221; raids on federal judges&#8217; homes &#8211; the neighborhood is too expensive).  It is sooooooo difficult for the<br />
Aristocracy to &#8220;feel the pain&#8221; of the middle class.</p>
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