Morning Links

Monday, June 11th, 2012

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74 Responses to “Morning Links”

  1. #1 |  demize! | 

    Here we go, all the Islamophobes masquerading as Libertarians come out of the woodwork. Its like a bell and a salivating dog.

  2. #2 |  demize! | 

    @Deoxy Pulling “Statistics” right out of the secular court of his ass…haha what a goon.

  3. #3 |  Mattocracy | 

    “If you’d actually read the Koran, read what these people live by, perhaps you’d understand how gullible and stupid you are being.”

    The problem I have with statements like this is that you could say the same thing about the Bible. If I were to assume that every Christian harbored the same crazy values written in the old testament, I wouldn’t want Christians anywhere near me. There is just as much crazy shit in there about beating wives and stoning children to death.

    I’m sure you can cite examples of people doing terrible things and justifying it with religion, but the majority of people don’t accept the barbarity advocated in their respective holy books. I don’t understand why we give christians the benefit of a doubt when it comes to this, but not muslims.

  4. #4 |  Rojo | 

    I’m going to start including the phrase “depraved sex acts by penguins” in all my unhinged rants and start sending the links to Radley.

  5. #5 |  Christopher Swing | 

    Just on the general topic of police protecting and serving themselves and their friends first…

    Allen County Sheriff Ken Fries:

    “I’m really not interested in talking about a non-story. Somebody calls me who is not drunk and they didn’t get arrested. The Journal-Gazette and the Fort Wayne Police Department apparently… I’m just not interested in talking about it anymore. Thanks.”

    County councilman Paul Moss calls the sheriff he helped get elected at 3 in the morning to get out of taking a breath test, and we proles have no business questioning whether or not that was special treatment.

    http://www.wane.com/dpp/news/county-councilman-released-statement-after-speculation-of-special-treatment-mre#idc-cover

    Bonus apologist opinion piece in the local Fox News-Sentinel: http://www.news-sentinel.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20120609/NEWS/120609628/1015/OPINION

  6. #6 |  Deoxy | 

    I don’t understand why we give christians the benefit of a doubt when it comes to this, but not muslims.

    No benefit of the doubt is required. Look at the world today, and check what crimes are committed, and by whom.

    Here we go, all the Islamophobes masquerading as Libertarians come out of the woodwork

    Firstly, I’d say it’s quite possible to be both – it’s not like libertarians are some magic, unbiased, and perfect group of people.

    Secondly, taking people at their word and believing them when they threaten you seems a lot more libertarian than condescendingly hand-waving it all away (“Aw, those little brown people are so cute when they get all angry and start screaming about killing us!”).

    @Deoxy Pulling “Statistics” right out of the secular court of his ass

    When every major muslim country in the world is moving away from liberal western values and towards Sharia and other “islamist” positions, I’d have a hard time swallowing anything less than 25%, and really, that’s a pretty significant stretch.

    I have a high enough opinion of them to judge them by their words and deeds without explaining it all away as if they were children.

  7. #7 |  Llewellyn | 

    Regarding the Pima County link:
    The article says: “The group is charged with illegally conducting a criminal enterprise,”

    Is such a thing as conducting a “legal” criminal enterprise?

    If so, what would it be called? A Police or Sheriffs Department

  8. #8 |  supercat | 

    #53 | Mattocracy | “I’m sure you can cite examples of people doing terrible things and justifying it with religion, but the majority of people don’t accept the barbarity advocated in their respective holy books. I don’t understand why we give christians the benefit of a doubt when it comes to this, but not muslims.”

    Some Christian leaders in centuries past did some very bad things which civilized people deem unacceptable; Christians do not deny that, nor do they hold such leaders up as moral exemplars. Mohammed is described in the Koran as having done many things which civilized people should likewise regard as unacceptable. Unlike the Christian leaders of centuries past, however, Mohammed cannot be be looked down upon by members of his faith.

    Further, it’s important to note that while reciprocal tolerance is a good thing, tolerance of intolerance is not. Tolerance of intolerance promotes further intolerance (as the intolerance will be allowed to spread, but tolerance will not). By contrast, intolerance of intolerance promotes tolerance (as those who would be intolerant will be encouraged to become tolerant of others, so as to gain toleration themselves). Muslims should be tolerated to the extent, and only to the extent, that they acknowledge the right of other religions to exist without subservience to Islam, and renounce any claim to the contrary.

  9. #9 |  Les | 

    Some Christian leaders in centuries past did some very bad things which civilized people deem unacceptable; Christians do not deny that, nor do they hold such leaders up as moral exemplars.

    Thomas More tortured and burned people at the stake for having English language versions of the Bible. He was made a Patron Saint in the year 2000.

    How many of the billion Catholics in the world condemn the Vatican for its systematic protection of child rapists?

    Suggesting that an entire group of people are less likely to have nuanced personal interpretations of their scripture is to dehumanize them. Beliefs vary widely among individuals in every group.

    Further, it’s important to note that while reciprocal tolerance is a good thing, tolerance of intolerance is not.

    I agree with this completely. Whether it’s coming from the left or the right, from Christians, Jews, or Muslims, intolerance shouldn’t be tolerated. Every group has its bigoted extremists. Focusing on the group, instead of the individual extremists, makes it harder to weed out the bad behavior.

    Just because there are Christian preachers in the news calling for the deaths of homosexuals, based on a literal reading of the Bible, it doesn’t justify condemning all or even most Christians as intolerant. I think it’s always better to focus on individuals than on groups.

  10. #10 |  Christopher Swing | 

    Guess I have to split this up.

    Just on the general topic of police protecting and serving themselves and their friends first…

    Allen County Sheriff Ken Fries:

    “I’m really not interested in talking about a non-story. Somebody calls me who is not drunk and they didn’t get arrested. The Journal-Gazette and the Fort Wayne Police Department apparently… I’m just not interested in talking about it anymore. Thanks.”

    County councilman Paul Moss calls the sheriff he helped get elected at 3 in the morning to get out of taking a breath test, and we proles have no business questioning whether or not that was special treatment.

    http://www.wane.com/dpp/news/county-councilman-released-statement-after-speculation-of-special-treatment-mre#idc-cover

  11. #11 |  Woog | 

    “Why you guys picking on Hitler so much?? Stalin was just as bad or even worse!”

    Judge people by their actions, their own, today. Barring actions, take them at their word.

  12. #12 |  Andrew Roth | 

    The New York Times had an excellent piece Sunday about the close parallels between human diseases and veterinary diseases, including addictions:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/10/opinion/sunday/our-animal-natures.html?_r=1&ref=opinion

    Re: Adderall: In my experience, it’s some heavy shit. I was on Adderall for a week or two in high school because a psychologist foolishly assumed that I had ADHD when I in fact had pretty much a textbook case of bipolar disorder. This psychologist was the only clinician who ever diagnosed me with ADHD; my regular psychiatrist never did, nor did a psychologist whom I saw for a brief spell in college, and I don’t think there was any basis at all for the ADHD diagnosis. Anyway, this fool put me on Adderall after I very explicitly told him that I sometimes got distracted from my studies because all I could think of was one of my depressive obsessions, and just as I expected, the pills had me flying, sometimes within half an hour. It was kind of fun but also a total pain in the ass when I had homework to do, and it resulted in some of the most rapid whipsawing I have ever had between euphoria and tearfulness.

    I went off Adderall before my next appointment and told my parents that I had no interest in continuing to see that psychologist because I did not trust him to make competent diagnoses. I was convinced that he had diagnosed me on the basis of the current fad rather than any history of my symptoms.

    Later, in college, some of my acquaintances offered to buy Adderall from me when I told them that I had once been on it, and I had to disappoint them. I totally understood why they wanted to get high on it. It can be wicked fun if you feel like bouncing off the walls all night and don’t mind falling behind at school.

  13. #13 |  Andrew Roth | 

    Another thought on Adderall: I’ve had similar experiences when severely amped up on coffee, the most noticeable difference being that coffee (especially bad coffee) has a way of acting as a laxative, while Adderall never did. I agree with Xenia Onatopp that this is a completely legitimate reason to take amphetamines instead of coffee as a stimulant.

    I lean towards making prescription amphetamines available over the counter. The amount of harm that can be prevented by making them easily available is immense. When they aren’t readily available, people looking for a pick-me-up flock to black market methamphetamine, which has likely been cooked from God only knows what by some tweaked-out wreck of an addict.

  14. #14 |  Belle Waring | 

    This is why all types of drugs should be decriminalized. There’s never been a big “legalize PCP” movement, but the same rationale applies. People want to ingest substances that make them have interesting or fun experiences; the state’s role should be to make sure they’re not risking a beatdown or rape from some shady dealer, or getting sold Drano, and that’s IT. I think there would be more drug addicts, because many people who now become alcoholics would fulfill their true destiny as addicts. Also, more people would smoke weed, because everyone would know a dealer. Likewise, more people would take MDMA later into life. It would pack the rooms of NA, sure, but only by thinning out the rooms of AA, and it would shut down the prison industrial complex. This is why I have such a bright future in electoral politics.

  15. #15 |  Cynical in New York | 

    Anytime some neocon or paleocon for that matter comes up to me and tries to “warn” me about Muslims I always ask them if their concern about Muslims is on par with what our own government does to it’s citizens in regards to police abuses and civil liberties abuses. The standard response is usually along the lines of; liberal, traitor, illegal alien and so forth.

  16. #16 |  demize! | 

    #56 you’ve never been to Croatia have you? You think you’re employing a clever rhetorical device, but you’re just exposing your own prejudices. All Muslims aren’t “brown” and all “browns” aren’t Muslims or something like that.

  17. #17 |  Delta | 

    #43: “I wonder why police officers seem to be trained to ALWAYS escalate a situation like this.”

    Haven’t I seen, multiple times, TV documentary of police training, where the primary lesson was “command presence” (control the situation at all times by means of aggressive command voice, etc.)? Seems to me like most of the problems of policing flow out of this single dictum, that the only thing happening on a scene should be things commanded by police officers. I’m a bit mystified by the mystification on this point at the Agitator. Links:

    http://www.lawofficer.com/article/leadership/point-command-presence
    http://www.policetest.info/FORCE_CONTINUUM_POLICE_USE_OF_FORCE.htm

    (Note in the last link on police test prep, mere officer presence counts as the first level of force-initiation. Everything else is a graduated continuation of that.)

  18. #18 |  Delta | 

    #47: “Unlike some other people, I’m willing to treat all people as actual PEOPLE, and take them at their word. They say they want to kill me, to enslave my children, to enslave and/or kill my wife, well, I believe them. And I act accordingly. And, judging by the behaviour on display in muslim countries the world over, I’d say it’s utterly foolish to do otherwise.”

    How about this: Actions speak louder than words. Based on our spending priorities, the USA appears by all lights to be a slavering predatory warmongerer — inasmuch as our military spending is approximately equal to the rest of the world combined.

    So, a modest proposal: Let’s cut the USA military spending back so it’s merely, oh, double that of the second-place military power. (i.e., down to $300B, less than half what it is today). If a byproduct of that is needing to remove the hundred-odd bases in the Middle East and Asia — and reducing outcry from native populations or simply ignoring those who rave on the other side of the planet — then so be it.

    Or I guess we could continue to fuck up our domestic laws in a paranoid response, that seems good, too.

  19. #19 |  Woog | 

    Soooo, Delta… what you’re saying is that all this “Islamophobia” over the behaviors of a certain people-group that proclaim loudly their desire for the death of Westerners is all the fault of the amount of money spent on the US military?

    (I don’t disagree with the idea that the US’ spending is insane and out of control, nor do I disagree that the US political response to “terror” attacks was completely insane; I do mock your attempt to deflect the issue off to a completely unrelated topic.)

  20. #20 |  Deoxy | 

    #56 you’ve never been to Croatia have you? You think you’re employing a clever rhetorical device, but you’re just exposing your own prejudices. All Muslims aren’t “brown” and all “browns” aren’t Muslims or something like that.

    Actually, I very well aware of that, which is why I find it so infuriating when anti-muslim statements are called “racist”. Perhaps you might note that A) the vast majority of the billion+ muslims are non-white, so as a general statement, it’s not inaccurate and B) I was mocking and caricaturing people who arrogantly apply the “bigotry of low expectations” to non-westerners (which would generally include muslims of any skin color), but to non-white people more commonly (despite their claims of being non-racist).

    How about this: Actions speak louder than words. Based on our spending priorities, the USA appears by all lights to be a slavering predatory warmongerer

    Our military capabilities could be absolutely zero, and it would not change the attitude of “islamist” groups towards us in any meaningful way, except perhaps to change the balance between “how much glory there is in hurting them” and “how hard such an operation is to achieve” (both would plummet, and the final balance is hard to judge).

    These groups hate us for being non-muslim. Unless and until we are all converted, or at the very least, openly and explicitly living as “dhimmi” in muslim states (which, in their opinion, should be ALL states), we are the enemy. All that changes is priority of target.

    If you are instead complaining about the military spending on its own merits (and there’s a decent argument for that), I would simply point out the counter-argument that the best bouncer is one so large, strong, and obviously able to kick everyone else to the curb that there are simply no fights at all.

    That’s not to say I necessarily support that argument – there are good arguments on both sides, and I see the merits of both. I tend to lean towards the “peace through superior firepower” methodology, as it is a better backup for when peace fails. Peace will ALWAYS fail at some point… but the counter argument is that it fails more often when there’s so much firepower around waiting to be used, and I think there’s at least some truth to that, as well, so I am conflicted.

  21. #21 |  Delta | 

    “… nothing is more essential than that permanent, inveterate antipathies against particular nations, and passionate attachments for others, should be excluded; and that, in place of them, just and amicable feelings towards all should be cultivated. The nation which indulges towards another a habitual hatred or a habitual fondness is in some degree a slave. It is a slave to its animosity or to its affection, either of which is sufficient to lead it astray from its duty and its interest. Antipathy in one nation against another disposes each more readily to offer insult and injury, to lay hold of slight causes of umbrage, and to be haughty and intractable, when accidental or trifling occasions of dispute occur. Hence, frequent collisions, obstinate, envenomed, and bloody contests…

    Our detached and distant situation invites and enables us to pursue a different course. If we remain one people under an efficient government, the period is not far off when we may defy material injury from external annoyance; when we may take such an attitude as will cause the neutrality we may at any time resolve upon to be scrupulously respected; when belligerent nations, under the impossibility of making acquisitions upon us, will not lightly hazard the giving us provocation; when we may choose peace or war, as our interest, guided by justice, shall counsel.

    Why forego the advantages of so peculiar a situation? Why quit our own to stand upon foreign ground?”

    http://avalon.law.yale.edu/18th_century/washing.asp

  22. #22 |  Penguin Sex « Depressed Economist | 

    […] agree with Radley Balko, any headline that says “depraved sex acts by penguins” should get a link. Share […]

  23. #23 |  Leon Wolfeson | 

    @47 – That’s right, when you repeatedly state that you’re out to kill “the other”, I’ll take you seriously. Islamism is a VERY minor portion of Islamic society, and has no foothold in America.

    There’s plenty of political posturing, but which county invaded Iraq, again?

    Meanwhile, you’re VERY much a threat to a large proportion of the Jewish population which isn’t white (and most of the part that is), and far more common in America. And the UK. So yes, I’m going to treat you as the enemy you’ve declared yourself to be.

    @53/59 – Exactly.

    If you actually track cases of “violence against Jews” in America and Europe, it’s overwhelmingly from white people. Mostly (nominally) Christian or Odinist/Ásatrú (especially from white power movements).

    They’re not terrorists, they’re thugs. And that gets a low “danger” profile in this day and age.

  24. #24 |  Deoxy | 

    Islamism is a VERY minor portion of Islamic society, and has no foothold in America.

    Giggle. The foothold it has in America is fairly small at this point, but it’s not close to none (see “CAIR”, for the most boisterous example).

    And to call it a “very minor portion” is to either A) just make stuff up (commonly known as “lie”), B) define “islamism” so narrowly as to be useless, or C) ascribe to islamists amazing powers of persuasion and/or force (as they are exerting powerful influence in most muslim countries today, including fielding large mobs in multiple cities at the same time).

    There’s plenty of political posturing, but which county invaded Iraq, again?

    The one that was at war with it, after Iraq repeatedly violated multiple conditions of the ceasefire? Yeah, that one. And why was said country at war with Iraq again? Let’s see, genocide against an one of their own people groups and unprovoked invasion of a neighbor both spring to mind.

    But hey, only moral actors can be held accountable for their actions, and, judging by your comments, the US is the only one which can bear blame, so you seem to think we are the only moral actors. Not a good way to think.

    If you actually track cases of “violence against Jews” in America and Europe, it’s overwhelmingly from white people.

    Yes, and 20% of sick days are taken on Fridays! That’s a serious problem…

    In case you missed the sarcasm, white people do “overwhelmingly” everything in Europe and the US, because they are the majority of all people in those places. In fact, if you find something NOT being done primarily by white people in those places, that’s a major statistical outlier begging investigation!

    Meanwhile, you’re VERY much a threat to a large proportion of the Jewish population which isn’t white (and most of the part that is), and far more common in America. And the UK. So yes, I’m going to treat you as the enemy you’ve declared yourself to be.

    Ok, this absolutely mystifies me.

    How did you get from me condemning the most virulently anti-Jewish people on the planet today to me being a threat to Jews?

    That’s some seriously powerful Kool-aid you’ve been drinking.