Morning Links

Monday, June 11th, 2012
Digg it |  reddit |  del.icio.us |  Fark

74 Responses to “Morning Links”

  1. #1 |  dave smith | 

    One of the commenenters from the taser story was right on: The cops are getting lazy. They should have pulled her out of the car and beat the crap out of her while screaming “stop resisting.”

  2. #2 |  xenia onatopp | 

    Here we go again with the Adderall crap. I have a prescription for Adderall for my ADD. I like taking it. Contrary to the NYT story, it doesn’t calm me down, it simply makes me able to focus, and to get things done. Because I guess I’m a terrible parent, if my 20 year old daughter asks me for some, I give it to her. She has two jobs, a full time day job and a 3-night-a-week overnight job, and speed doesn’t fuck up her stomach like caffeine does. She actually had her own prescription for a long time, but at the moment she doesn’t have health insurance.

    Back in the seventies, when I was in my teens, it was a lot easier to get speed from doctors, since it was still legal and common to prescribe it for weight loss. In my late teens I used to get it from a few different doctors who specialized in it, mostly so I could waitress in bars a shitload of hours a week.

    Contrary to the NYT, it’s not particularly addictive, at least physically. Addiction is something that seems to reside in the person, not the substance, but some substances do cause physical dependence leading to uncomfortable and dangerous withdrawal symptoms. Amphetamines do not.

    So fuck the NYT. There’s nothing wrong with using a chemical to help you study when, in fact, it seems to legitimately increase performance.

    Yeah, as a chronic pain patient with ADD, I’m fucking sick of these stupid panics and crusades.

  3. #3 |  Burgers Allday | 

    On Guerena, this:

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/57183432/PCSO-Search-Warrant-Affidavit-Jose-Guerena-Shooting

    is the more important document to read. The police should have realized that this was not enough probable cause to search Guerena’s house. That is probably what Vanessa Guerena is arguing now in court. Fortunately, the fact that the judge signs off on a search warrant does not mean that police automatically get immunity, at least not in the Ninth Circuit.

    Don’t get me wrong. It is not a helpful fact that a search warrant was issued, but the basis for such warrant is so woefully deficient here that the warrant application may end up helping the Guerena family more than it hurts.

    This should be distinguished with situation where police go in warrantless and then can later make up facts to justify the entry. They don’t get to do that on Jose.

  4. #4 |  Mike Williams | 

    Re the pregnant taser victim: In my jurisdiction, we call those P.O.P. encounters. That young lady is clearly guilty of pissing off the poh-lice.

  5. #5 |  David | 

    The comments on that Scribd link are hilarious. Some jackass in a uniform (so either a cop or a wannabe) talks about how because Jose Guerena was arrested (but not convicted) on “weapons related violations,” that means he was a “felony home invasion robbery murder suspect” and therefore a dangerous criminal.

  6. #6 |  Robert | 

    Note to Radley. Animated ads get the ad blocker turned on for your site. Sorry. I’m willing to put up with normal ads, but once they start moving around, the hammer comes out.

  7. #7 |  Difster | 

    A moron at PolicyMic is contributing to the hype with a story long on personal anecdote and completely absent any actual data.

    http://www.policymic.com/articles/9529/adderall-abuse-in-college-students-harms-those-who-actually-have-adhd

  8. #8 |  Yizmo Gizmo | 

    “There’s nothing wrong with using a chemical to help you study when, in fact, it seems to legitimately increase performance.”

    The chemical in question is Adderall (Dextroamphetamine)…
    If it were Amphetamine or Cocaine, would that be okay?
    If kids are using these drugs for the wrong reasons, or can’t study
    properly without them, I call that a story…

  9. #9 |  C. S. P. Schofield | 

    I think three things fuel the “No Sharia Law” attitude;

    1) We have some Liberal lawyers (one of them a Supreme Court Justice, who ought to know better) babbling about taking trends in World law into account. This may be current intellectual fashion among the chattering class, but it isn’t good jurisprudence. Further, it pisses people off.

    2) A lot of wild eyed Islamic ‘leaders” (leaders in the sense that Al Sharpton is a leader) have gone on record demanding that ‘Sharia Law” (by which I presume they mean ‘my every personal whim’) supersede western law. How much this idiocy has actually affected any western nation at all, I simply don’t know. Probably less than the news stories about it would have us believe.

    3) There are, regularly, news stories about ‘honor killings’ and the supposed wall of silence that police encounter when they try to investigate them. Lots of stories dateline Paris or London. Some from U.S. cities, though. How real any of this is, is something I would dearly like some organization like REASON magazine to look into. If it is just as real as UFOs that’s one thing. If it has substance, that’s something else.

    I guess what I’m saying is that while my instinct is that an anti-Sharia Law measure is so much piddle and wind, I would like to see more thoughtful consideration of the roots, because I don’t know how serious they are.

  10. #10 |  SamK | 

    So, just to be clear, they don’t have a damned thing on Jose Guerena but they can talk plenty of trash on his family? Ok, must have been a good shoot.

  11. #11 |  Burgers Allday | 

    The comments on that Scribd link are hilarious. Some jackass in a uniform (so either a cop or a wannabe) talks about how because Jose Guerena was arrested (but not convicted) on “weapons related violations,” that means he was a “felony home invasion robbery murder suspect” and therefore a dangerous criminal.

    Yeah. That is the type of argument that will probably not go over well in the civil suit.

    What the police would have wanted to make up, immediately after it was determined that Guerena did not fire his weapon, would have been a “confidential informant” (used to be called “confidential reliable informant” but not so much anymore). Because they got a search warrant they couldn’t do that.

    I have read long review articles about why search warrants are required. None has ever identified this sort of reason. Law professors seem to assume that police would not make up an informant, or other evidence supporting probable cause.

  12. #12 |  xenia onatopp | 

    The chemical in question is Adderall (Dextroamphetamine)…
    If it were Amphetamine or Cocaine, would that be okay?
    If kids are using these drugs for the wrong reasons, or can’t study
    properly without them, I call that a story…

    1. Adderall is mixed amphetamine salts, a combination of dextroamphetamine and amphetamine, so yes, it’s amphetamine, and yes, that’s ok with me. Cocaine would just be stupid in this context, as it’s too short acting. The use by students of another drug, caffeine, for the same reason is a widely accepted practice, and I see no difference.

    2. What is a “wrong” reason for using any substance? I think that “because I want to” or “because it makes me feel good” are as legitimate as most other reasons.

    3. Nobody is saying these kids can’t study without these chemicals, only that they stude more effectively with them. Also, see #1 and #2 above.

  13. #13 |  Jesse | 

    So the best they can come up with on Jose Guerena is that he had vehicles registered in his name that were paid for by relatives? And that he was related to, and ocassionally visited, family members that were involved in marijuana trafficking?

    Everyone has relatives, just because blood ties exist doesn’t warrant probable cause that every blood relative is involved in illegal activity. But that seems to be the underlying basis for the raid on Jose’s home.

  14. #14 |  David | 

    He also rode in a car that contained felonious quantities of saran wrap.

  15. #15 |  Anything so he can measure up to men… « Whipped Cream Difficulties | 

    […] way of Balko: sexual perversity among the […]

  16. #16 |  Boyd Durkin | 

    @ Yizmo

    “There’s nothing wrong with using a chemical to help you study when, in fact, it seems to legitimately increase performance.””

    If it were Amphetamine or Cocaine, would that be okay?

    Cocaine legitimately increases student performance? WTF was I taking then back in college? Did not get those results.

  17. #17 |  Yizmo Gizmo | 

    Cocaine can be used to study or learn… It is, after all, a stimulant.
    Freud did a lot of his work on cocaine. So did a lot of writers.
    My friend at Berkeley said he took cocaine and thought he was going to
    finish his PhD thesis in one night. Don’t tell me coke can’t be used
    to enhance learning or output….

  18. #18 |  Deoxy | 

    The Sharia Law article:

    If two Jewish merchants have a contract that calls for arbitration of disputes in a rabbinical court, state courts will generally enforce any judgment.

    But that is rather explicitly NOT what people are worried about – that is, if they each sign a contract, and it has a clause on how disputes are resolved, that’s one thing.

    The fear is that some people would try to have “if there are disputes, they shall be resolved according to Sharia law” added on without the other party having signed it as such.

    That is, the article in question is committed a fairly significant version of the strawman fallacy.

    Yes, in the US, the direct fear of sharia law is still quite remote, but there are areas of France where the police do not go without SERIOUS force, and they are governed de facto by Sharia Law. There are areas in England only one or two steps removed from that.

    Acting in advance to specifically prevent such developments here seems like a good idea. A properly drafted law would have very large, sharp teeth… but almost never apply.

    Put whatever you want in the contract (“pistols at dawn” for all I care!), but that’s NOT what this is about.

    The measure was a drone missile targeted specifically at Islam, in brazen defiance of the First Amendment.

    It was targetted at Islam because that’s the group loudly and publicly declaring their desire (or at least a very vocal and not-so-small minority’s desire) to do something like this right now.

    Writing the law to not target any particular group would be a good idea even without First Amendment concerns.

  19. #19 |  Brandon | 

    #15, it can, if you can focus while you’re on it. And frankly, that should be up to the individual to decide, and people who do decide to try it should have the legal ability to get access to a good, pure supply of it at market prices so they don’t have to worry about adulterants or bored SWAT teams kicking down their doors. On the other hand, people who just think it’s fun (I don’t, particularly, it stresses me out and gives me a terrible headache) should have that same option.

  20. #20 |  James D | 

    “The bogus threat of shariah law.”

    Really? Considering the history of Islam what happens as they gain a certain % foothold in a country and what is happening before our eyes in Europe … I’d hardly call it ‘bogus’.

  21. #21 |  David | 

    Speaking of the world-shattering threat of Islam to our way of life, the Supreme Court told seven Guantanamo detainees to pound sand today (per SCOTUSblog, this means that a ruling stands which puts the burden of proof on detainees to prove that US intelligence-gathering which implicates them is flawed). Apparently they’re not too attached to Boumediene, given how the DC Circuit has treated it.

  22. #22 |  Bill Poser | 

    Islamists do indeed want to impose Shari’a law, and that would be vile, but in that scenario we’re talking about a complete change in the legal system. Most of the repulsive aspects of Shari’a law are clearly unconstitutional and could be be adopted without Constitutional amendment. For example, punishments such as amputation violate the 8th Amendment, and discrimination against non-Muslims violates the 1st Amendment. Discrimination against women violates the Equal Protection clause of the 14th Amendment. If Islamists succeed in imposing Shari’a law, they’ll do it by armed takeover or constitutional amendment, in which case anti-Shari’a laws will be useless.

    Existing contract law precludes the imposition of Shari’a law as a form of arbitration without the consent of both parties.

    The one situation in which there is a small but real prospect of Shari’a law affecting our legal system is in cases in which judges have taken it, or other aspects of Muslim custom, into account in determining sentences or deciding civil cases, e.g. a judge reducing a man’s sentence for domestic abuse on the grounds that Shari’a law condones a man beating a disobedient wife. There have only been a few such cases, and they can be dealt with by clarifying law and policy on this type of situation. Since they don’t actually involve reliance on Shari’a law as law, anti-Shari’a law provisions arguably don’t even affect them.

    Even clearer is the situation referred to by another commenter, in which some Muslim-dominated areas in Europe are effectively outside the secular law, unsafe for non-Muslims, and governed, if at all, by Muslim gangs and Shari’a law. This is indeed a very bad situation, but it has nothing to do with the use of Shari’a law in European legal systems. How would a ban on reliance on Shari’a law within a European legal system affect this? Not at all.

    On the other hand, broad legislation barring any reliance on Shari’a law has unfortunate consequences. Suppose, for example, that a man and a woman marry in Saudi Arabia under Shari’a law. They then come to reside, legally, in the US. If Shari’a law is considered null and void, they must be considered unmarried for purposes such as taxation, inheritance, decisions about medical care if one spouse is incapacitated, and legitimacy of children. Surely that is not a desirable result.

  23. #23 |  Bill Poser | 

    Oops. Above I meant “could NOT be adopted without a complete change….”.

  24. #24 |  Lefty | 

    “The bogus threat of shariah law.”

    Banning islamic courts is clearly unconstitutional unless all religious courts are banned. Christian and Jewish courts have been functioning here for a very long time without the hysteria.

  25. #25 |  RobSmalls | 

    “Depraved sex acts by penguins”? Oh Pittsburgh, you have the kinkiest hockey team ever…

  26. #26 |  Weird Willy | 

    Chapman’s article on Sharia law is one of the most brain-dead examples of pseudo-journalism I have ever seen. If two Jewish merchants wish to include a clause defining dispute resolution mechanisms within a contract, and those mechanisms happen to specify a specific arbitration forum, that is simply a matter of contract. The common law right of lawful contract is unlimited, and it includes the ability to choose a means of arbitration. The same would hold true for a Muslim even in a jurisdiction where Sharia law is banned, because, just as the Jewish merchants would not be seeking to supplant domestic statutory/constitutional law, neither would the Muslims. This whole construct is merely a ruse, a red-herring, a straw man designed to distract the reader from the real issue.

    Jewish rabbinical law is not allowed to supplant or supersede conventional statutory laws or constitutional principles and precepts. The same for Catholic canonical law, and no matter what Chapman would like to suggest, no members of the US Supreme Court are actively resisting any measures designed to prevent papal bulls from nullifying the application or enforcement of domestic statutes. The same cannot honestly be said of certain Muslim legal advocates, who routinely push for Sharia law to be enforced alongside of recognized statutory/constitutional law within American courts. These advocates have even enjoyed some success, as in a recent case where a judge dismissed charges against a Muslim who had struck a man for offending his religious sensibilities. The judge ruled in part that it was appropriate for the charges to be dismissed, because the defendant had a right to rely upon the protections that Sharia law affords to those who commit violence in defense of their faith.

    Britain has had a very unfortunate experience with the creep of Sharia law into its system of jurisprudence. I hope we can avoid suffering similar misfortunes here. If, as Chapman suggests, there is absolutely no chance of Sharia law ever being recognized under “the law of the land,” then what is his complaint? If Muslims are already barred from appealing to Sharia law due to de facto exclusions, than why should he object if those same de facto exclusions become codified. The truth is that Sharia recognition activists and the constituency they represent are steadfastly opposed to the existing rule of American law. They should be told the same thing that everyone else has been told regarding any systems of religious law they may hold dear: Do and think what you want on your own time, but when you come to court you must check your foreign legal codes at the door, because they are not allowed inside

  27. #27 |  Marty | 

    is there any truth to the rumor that Bryson, the U.S. Commerce Secretary, yelled ‘Diplomatic immunity!’ in a heavy, South African accent when the cops pulled up?

  28. #28 |  Chuck | 

    I’m 22 years old on my last stretch of a Micro & Molecular biology degree and sweating my ass off studying for a biochem exam today on Adderall IR bought from a friend. I don’t depend on adderall nor do I crave it like a rec drug. I hate caffeine and the headache it gives me, makes me sweat more than adderall usually. I simply have such a massive amount of material to cover that I need this stuff to keep me from sleeping on my book. I go to the 2nd largest university in the states (180 people in this biochem class) and my next step is medical school where I will most likely continue using other people’s adderall.

  29. #29 |  Marc | 

    Just on note on the Commerce Secretary and the accidents: The reporting is now that he had a seizure, which caused the accidents. This sounds wild to some, but I have seen this happen with my own eyes and seen the aftermath in other cases. This is very similar to the problems with diabetics and low blood sugar, with occasionally aggressive behavior and periods where the person is unconscious or incoherent. I’m surprised you haven’t posted a link for situation where a seizure patient has been tasered – though you may have and I am not aware of it.

  30. #30 |  Helmut O' Hooligan | 

    “The same conservatives who accuse judges of trying to stamp out expressions of Christian faith now imagine they are eager to do the bidding of ayatollahs.”

    That’s a good point by Mr. Chapman. “Law and Order” conservatives are all to happy to scare us with the specter of Shariah. That way they can divert our attention away from the terrible abuses that are supported by U.S. law and carried out by U.S. law enforcement personnel. If these conservatives need evidence for this claim they need only read sources like The Agitator. But that would be asking too much.

  31. #31 |  Helmut O' Hooligan | 

    RE: Bryson hit-and-runs…
    “There authorities found him alone and unconscious behind the wheel of his car”

    And the police didn’t find it necessary to pepper spray him through the window (a technique I will now call the “Maryland Chile Suprise”). Sounds like Mr. Bryson got top notch police service!

  32. #32 |  StrangeOne | 

    Creeping Sharia Law is a European problem. They are the ones with the very large populations of non-native Muslims, many of whom have serious aversions to acclimating to their new countries.

    Most of the Muslim immigrants in America have to go through the legal channels to enter the country. That means mostly businessmen and college students, so not the usual demographics that support 14th century religious law. Its not the mass, and largely illegal, migration that is occurring in Europe. The US worrying about Sharia Law imposed by Muslims is like England worrying about being forced to convert to Catholicism by Latin Americans.

    Its also rather ironic that the same people that make waves about Sharia Law have very little concern for the civil liberties lost as our government wages an aggressive campaign against suspected terrorists. Our government is already doing things far worse than even Sharia law allows for, but so long as its only being done to brown people with hyphenated names from half way around the world (at least for the time being) its all good. As usual for authoritarians and nationalists the imagined abuses of some outside group take precedence over the real abuses by the current government.

  33. #33 |  The Late Andy Rooney | 

    I’m surprised the Secretary of Commerce even drives. Not that he shouldn’t have to (like everyone else), but in today’s government, there seems to be a real divide between government officials and ordinary citizens. Perks, like rides in chauffered government cars, are part of what goes into maintaining that divide.

  34. #34 |  Leonson | 

    Jose Guerena, the guy that lived about a block from my parents. The guy that my dad said would get a different car about once a week, strip all the inside panels out, put them back in, and then send the car on it’s way.

    The police overreacted, but don’t mistake that for innocence.

  35. #35 |  Dave Krueger | 

    With regard to the last item, there is another measure by which to gauge the wonderful success of the drug war. Back in 2006, the Justice Dept reported that Mexican drug cartels were operating in 50 American cities. In 2009 it was up to 1,286 cities.

    Let’s all give them a big round of applause!

    http://www.cnn.com/2012/06/09/us/mexican-cartels-small-town-usa/index.html

  36. #36 |  Robert | 

    @ #31: “The guy that my dad said would get a different car about once a week, strip all the inside panels out, put them back in, and then send the car on it’s way.”

    I used to do that. It was called “Car stereo installation technician”.

  37. #37 |  AlgerHiss | 

    Not unlike CATO’s new site on police malfeasance (policemisconduct.net), for a daily report of Islamic criminality, visit:

    http://thereligionofpeace.com/

    Islam: Keep it away from me and my family. And especially, keep it away from females.

  38. #38 |  perlhaqr | 

    I wonder if the Commerce Secretary had a seizure. I got one of those in the ER with a similar tale of repeated car accidents and a drive-off.

  39. #39 |  xenia onatopp | 

    We had a local police officer have a seizure while driving a few weeks back– he managed to take out five cars and a chain-link fence.

  40. #40 |  David | 

    #38: That’s what I’ve heard floated around. It would explain a lot.

  41. #41 |  Leon Wolfeson | 

    @9 – The simple fact is, Beis Din, Jewish courts, have been working for as long as there have been Jews in America. Without undermining the country. It’s media hysteria.

    @18 – Bullshit. There are areas in London, especially, where if you’re a known far right winger it’s not a good idea to go, no. But there are far larger areas in London, Manchester, Liverpool and so on where unless you’re obviously white it’s a really, really, bad idea to go. Especially after dark.

    The UK has a problem with successive governments unwilling to ensure that communities are treated equally – my own Jewish community in London has a fairly hostile relationship with much of it – and a police who are still very much racist.

    You’re completely unable to tell the difference between Islam and Islamism, then you wonder why communities act in defense against blatantly hostile propaganda and actions.

    @34 – And since when did that deserve being shot?

  42. #42 |  Goober | 

    Leonson – Well, that ties it. He had the tenacity and gall to remove the panels out of cars in his driveway. The guy clearly deserved to die.

    unless, i guess, if he was installing car stereos in those cars. Maybe.

    Even IF he was involved in a pot smuggling ring – and stay with me here, because I know that this one is going to be tough for you – I wonder if he deserved to die over it? I wonder if his son deserved to be at risk of being peppered with bullets by police officers with absolutely no fire discipline, or his wife. Or the kids out back playing soccer.

    You know, instead of just being arrested on his way to work at the mine, or when he went out for pizza, or when he came out to get his mail… or, or, or. I fear mightily the day that men break down my door, shout POLICE! and I have but a split second to decide whether i should believe them or not – criminals are known to lie, you know.

    So I get a choice – assume that these are bad guys robbing me (as had happened to Jose’s family very recently), grab my gun, and defend my family and die or end up in prison for the rest of my life…

    OR…

    I assume they are cops, submit to their demands, and find out after I’m handcuffed that they are bad guys and I’ve just bought myself a front-row ticket to the gang rape of my wife.

    You have about 2 seconds before they get to the bedroom. Decide. Ready? GO!!!

    Why put anyone in that position? Why not just have a black and white pull him over on his way to work? Or, if you’re afraid of the car chase, wait until he gets there and nick him while he’s walking across the parking lot? Or, if you’re afraid of that for some reason, sit on the house and wait for him to come outside unarmed? I’d imagine that he’s got to mow his lawn or get his mail or take out the garbage at some point in time.

    I know why – do you?

    *hint – it has something to do with having a SWAT team and all those cools toys to play with, so why not use them?

  43. #43 |  Goober | 

    As for the woman who got tasered – she was acting like a fool, and was being angry and irrational and disrespected the police officer, so a lot of people are going to say that she had it coming. She didn’t. She was a fool, but she didn’t have a tasing coming.

    The issue is that none of those things that she did are illegal – they just piss cops off. She was stupid to do what she did, but I wonder why police officers seem to be trained to ALWAYS escalate a situation like this.

    Why doesn’t their training also teach them that sometimes when no crime was committed, and a person is pissed at you, that it is best to just walk away? Why can’t cops just walk away? Why was it necessary to tase an idiotic, enraged and pregnant moron instead of just shaking your head, turning around, and walking away?

    i think it was this same thinking of “cannot allow disrespect, people must be made to follow orders at all costs” that allowed those cops to escalate the killing of that old marine vet who accidentally triggered his life alert and then told the cops to mind their own business when they showed up. He disrespected the police. he didn’t follow orders. Once they determined that he was fine, and once he told them to leave him alone, why couldn’t they just walk away? Why did they have to break down the door, shoot him with bean bags, tase him twice, and then shoot him to death?

    Because they had to make sure he was okay? Hell of a job, there.

    No, it was because this mundane had the gall to not only choose to not follow orders, but he did so rudely and forcefully, and we can’t have that. Must escalate. Must. Make. Citizen. Obey!

  44. #44 |  Personanongrata | 

    •Well more than a year later, the Pima County Sheriff’s Department claims Jose Guerena was tied to his brothers’ pot smuggling ring.

    Which of course is grounds for executing Jose Guerena.

    Vanessa Guerena and her 4 year old child should count their blessings the Pima County Sheriff’s Department was not operating any drone unmanned aerial aircraft (UAV) as the entire family may have been murdered in the name of officer safety.

    The “cowboys” staffing the Pima County SWAT acted with depraved indiffernece to human life on May 5 2011 as the “tactics” used showed poor intelligence gathering skills, poor weapons discipline, poor to non-existent communications and a poorly executed dynamic entry.

    The dynamic entry was a disaster as Pima SWAT decided that standing in the open door way and silhouetting themselves while squeezing off 70 some-odd rounds without even knowing who was in the home was the proper way in serving the search warrant.

    If these Pima SWAT clowns had actually surveilled Jose Guerena they would have known his work schedule and could simply have approached him in his driveway as he returned home from working the night shift as he did daily.

    Surveillance boring, playing SWAT clown and murdering people in a hail of unanswered gun fire is fun.

  45. #45 |  Woog | 

    The cop tasering a woman is the reverse of the situation explained by last week’s news article of cops shooting a violent man.

    Tasers were sold to the public as an ALTERNATIVE to lethal force. What this news story is saying is that, if not for tasers, the cop would have shot the woman driver, over what could be only considered a misdemeanor littering issue at worst. It is not a question of “not knowing the criminal” – the cop had just written a ticket.

    But for the taser, this cop would be a murderer.

    The most disturbing part is how this story is only newsworthy because the woman in question was pregnant!

  46. #46 |  Woog | 

    I’ll concur with the anti-sharia-laws being useless in legal theory – the Constitution is supreme. From the practical side, however, all I need do is point out both Prohibition amendments and the lack of such an amendment for Prohibition II…

    The important matter involving Islam or any other religion/culture/governmental system is whether or not it sanctions the infringement of the Creator-granted rights of individuals. In cases where the foreign system respects such rights, it is in harmony with the Constitution; if it does not respect such rights, it is incompatible and cannot be allowed to operate as such.

  47. #47 |  Deoxy | 

    You’re completely unable to tell the difference between Islam and Islamism

    You’re right. I’m just like 40-80% of the world’s muslims. That should scare the poop right out of you.

    Let’s assume I’m completely off-base on that number, and it’s “only” 25%. Gee, that’s just 250-300 million people.

    But sure, I’m completely off-base, off my meds, and have no reason to worry about the people who publicly, loudly, and regularly proclaim that they want to kill us all.

    Unlike some other people, I’m willing to treat all people as actual PEOPLE, and take them at their word. They say they want to kill me, to enslave my children, to enslave and/or kill my wife, well, I believe them. And I act accordingly.

    And, judging by the behaviour on display in muslim countries the world over, I’d say it’s utterly foolish to do otherwise.

    Most of the Muslim immigrants in America have to go through the legal channels to enter the country. That means mostly businessmen and college students, so not the usual demographics that support 14th century religious law.

    Yes, nice, safe people, like Mohamed Atta, etc.

    If you’d actually read the Koran, read what these people live by, perhaps you’d understand how gullible and stupid you are being.

  48. #48 |  Michael Chaney | 

    If I were to see the evidence in the Jose Guerena case, I might be able to make the determination that he had some level of involvement in a family drug business. There are two problems here:

    1. Even if he is, the death penalty applied is a little severe
    2. The people saying this have demonstrably lied in the past, there’s no reason to believe them now

  49. #49 |  Leonson | 

    To all the people responding to me.

    Learn to fricking read.

    Did I say the police overreacted? Yes, yes I did.

    Did you also overreact? Yup.

  50. #50 |  Leonson | 

    Also, as an added note-

    My parents had the recent necessity to call the police in their neighborhood. A neighborhood kid pulled a knife on one of my nephews.

    Sheriffs showed up to take a statement. Grilled my 12 year old nephew for an hour outside in the 100+ degree weather. Turns out the kid that pulled the knife was also the son of one of their dispatchers.

    They threatened to arrest my nephew because ‘his story changed’ after being grilled for an hour. Also one officer stepped into my dads personal space (practically chest to chest) and told my dad to back off or he’d be arrested.

    Finally my parents are starting to understand how the culture has changed. They protect each other first, long before the community. My dad always had a hard time seeing that being a retired commisioner.

  51. #51 |  demize! | 

    Here we go, all the Islamophobes masquerading as Libertarians come out of the woodwork. Its like a bell and a salivating dog.

  52. #52 |  demize! | 

    @Deoxy Pulling “Statistics” right out of the secular court of his ass…haha what a goon.

  53. #53 |  Mattocracy | 

    “If you’d actually read the Koran, read what these people live by, perhaps you’d understand how gullible and stupid you are being.”

    The problem I have with statements like this is that you could say the same thing about the Bible. If I were to assume that every Christian harbored the same crazy values written in the old testament, I wouldn’t want Christians anywhere near me. There is just as much crazy shit in there about beating wives and stoning children to death.

    I’m sure you can cite examples of people doing terrible things and justifying it with religion, but the majority of people don’t accept the barbarity advocated in their respective holy books. I don’t understand why we give christians the benefit of a doubt when it comes to this, but not muslims.

  54. #54 |  Rojo | 

    I’m going to start including the phrase “depraved sex acts by penguins” in all my unhinged rants and start sending the links to Radley.

  55. #55 |  Christopher Swing | 

    Just on the general topic of police protecting and serving themselves and their friends first…

    Allen County Sheriff Ken Fries:

    “I’m really not interested in talking about a non-story. Somebody calls me who is not drunk and they didn’t get arrested. The Journal-Gazette and the Fort Wayne Police Department apparently… I’m just not interested in talking about it anymore. Thanks.”

    County councilman Paul Moss calls the sheriff he helped get elected at 3 in the morning to get out of taking a breath test, and we proles have no business questioning whether or not that was special treatment.

    http://www.wane.com/dpp/news/county-councilman-released-statement-after-speculation-of-special-treatment-mre#idc-cover

    Bonus apologist opinion piece in the local Fox News-Sentinel: http://www.news-sentinel.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20120609/NEWS/120609628/1015/OPINION

  56. #56 |  Deoxy | 

    I don’t understand why we give christians the benefit of a doubt when it comes to this, but not muslims.

    No benefit of the doubt is required. Look at the world today, and check what crimes are committed, and by whom.

    Here we go, all the Islamophobes masquerading as Libertarians come out of the woodwork

    Firstly, I’d say it’s quite possible to be both – it’s not like libertarians are some magic, unbiased, and perfect group of people.

    Secondly, taking people at their word and believing them when they threaten you seems a lot more libertarian than condescendingly hand-waving it all away (“Aw, those little brown people are so cute when they get all angry and start screaming about killing us!”).

    @Deoxy Pulling “Statistics” right out of the secular court of his ass

    When every major muslim country in the world is moving away from liberal western values and towards Sharia and other “islamist” positions, I’d have a hard time swallowing anything less than 25%, and really, that’s a pretty significant stretch.

    I have a high enough opinion of them to judge them by their words and deeds without explaining it all away as if they were children.

  57. #57 |  Llewellyn | 

    Regarding the Pima County link:
    The article says: “The group is charged with illegally conducting a criminal enterprise,”

    Is such a thing as conducting a “legal” criminal enterprise?

    If so, what would it be called? A Police or Sheriffs Department

  58. #58 |  supercat | 

    #53 | Mattocracy | “I’m sure you can cite examples of people doing terrible things and justifying it with religion, but the majority of people don’t accept the barbarity advocated in their respective holy books. I don’t understand why we give christians the benefit of a doubt when it comes to this, but not muslims.”

    Some Christian leaders in centuries past did some very bad things which civilized people deem unacceptable; Christians do not deny that, nor do they hold such leaders up as moral exemplars. Mohammed is described in the Koran as having done many things which civilized people should likewise regard as unacceptable. Unlike the Christian leaders of centuries past, however, Mohammed cannot be be looked down upon by members of his faith.

    Further, it’s important to note that while reciprocal tolerance is a good thing, tolerance of intolerance is not. Tolerance of intolerance promotes further intolerance (as the intolerance will be allowed to spread, but tolerance will not). By contrast, intolerance of intolerance promotes tolerance (as those who would be intolerant will be encouraged to become tolerant of others, so as to gain toleration themselves). Muslims should be tolerated to the extent, and only to the extent, that they acknowledge the right of other religions to exist without subservience to Islam, and renounce any claim to the contrary.

  59. #59 |  Les | 

    Some Christian leaders in centuries past did some very bad things which civilized people deem unacceptable; Christians do not deny that, nor do they hold such leaders up as moral exemplars.

    Thomas More tortured and burned people at the stake for having English language versions of the Bible. He was made a Patron Saint in the year 2000.

    How many of the billion Catholics in the world condemn the Vatican for its systematic protection of child rapists?

    Suggesting that an entire group of people are less likely to have nuanced personal interpretations of their scripture is to dehumanize them. Beliefs vary widely among individuals in every group.

    Further, it’s important to note that while reciprocal tolerance is a good thing, tolerance of intolerance is not.

    I agree with this completely. Whether it’s coming from the left or the right, from Christians, Jews, or Muslims, intolerance shouldn’t be tolerated. Every group has its bigoted extremists. Focusing on the group, instead of the individual extremists, makes it harder to weed out the bad behavior.

    Just because there are Christian preachers in the news calling for the deaths of homosexuals, based on a literal reading of the Bible, it doesn’t justify condemning all or even most Christians as intolerant. I think it’s always better to focus on individuals than on groups.

  60. #60 |  Christopher Swing | 

    Guess I have to split this up.

    Just on the general topic of police protecting and serving themselves and their friends first…

    Allen County Sheriff Ken Fries:

    “I’m really not interested in talking about a non-story. Somebody calls me who is not drunk and they didn’t get arrested. The Journal-Gazette and the Fort Wayne Police Department apparently… I’m just not interested in talking about it anymore. Thanks.”

    County councilman Paul Moss calls the sheriff he helped get elected at 3 in the morning to get out of taking a breath test, and we proles have no business questioning whether or not that was special treatment.

    http://www.wane.com/dpp/news/county-councilman-released-statement-after-speculation-of-special-treatment-mre#idc-cover

  61. #61 |  Woog | 

    “Why you guys picking on Hitler so much?? Stalin was just as bad or even worse!”

    Judge people by their actions, their own, today. Barring actions, take them at their word.

  62. #62 |  Andrew Roth | 

    The New York Times had an excellent piece Sunday about the close parallels between human diseases and veterinary diseases, including addictions:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/10/opinion/sunday/our-animal-natures.html?_r=1&ref=opinion

    Re: Adderall: In my experience, it’s some heavy shit. I was on Adderall for a week or two in high school because a psychologist foolishly assumed that I had ADHD when I in fact had pretty much a textbook case of bipolar disorder. This psychologist was the only clinician who ever diagnosed me with ADHD; my regular psychiatrist never did, nor did a psychologist whom I saw for a brief spell in college, and I don’t think there was any basis at all for the ADHD diagnosis. Anyway, this fool put me on Adderall after I very explicitly told him that I sometimes got distracted from my studies because all I could think of was one of my depressive obsessions, and just as I expected, the pills had me flying, sometimes within half an hour. It was kind of fun but also a total pain in the ass when I had homework to do, and it resulted in some of the most rapid whipsawing I have ever had between euphoria and tearfulness.

    I went off Adderall before my next appointment and told my parents that I had no interest in continuing to see that psychologist because I did not trust him to make competent diagnoses. I was convinced that he had diagnosed me on the basis of the current fad rather than any history of my symptoms.

    Later, in college, some of my acquaintances offered to buy Adderall from me when I told them that I had once been on it, and I had to disappoint them. I totally understood why they wanted to get high on it. It can be wicked fun if you feel like bouncing off the walls all night and don’t mind falling behind at school.

  63. #63 |  Andrew Roth | 

    Another thought on Adderall: I’ve had similar experiences when severely amped up on coffee, the most noticeable difference being that coffee (especially bad coffee) has a way of acting as a laxative, while Adderall never did. I agree with Xenia Onatopp that this is a completely legitimate reason to take amphetamines instead of coffee as a stimulant.

    I lean towards making prescription amphetamines available over the counter. The amount of harm that can be prevented by making them easily available is immense. When they aren’t readily available, people looking for a pick-me-up flock to black market methamphetamine, which has likely been cooked from God only knows what by some tweaked-out wreck of an addict.

  64. #64 |  Belle Waring | 

    This is why all types of drugs should be decriminalized. There’s never been a big “legalize PCP” movement, but the same rationale applies. People want to ingest substances that make them have interesting or fun experiences; the state’s role should be to make sure they’re not risking a beatdown or rape from some shady dealer, or getting sold Drano, and that’s IT. I think there would be more drug addicts, because many people who now become alcoholics would fulfill their true destiny as addicts. Also, more people would smoke weed, because everyone would know a dealer. Likewise, more people would take MDMA later into life. It would pack the rooms of NA, sure, but only by thinning out the rooms of AA, and it would shut down the prison industrial complex. This is why I have such a bright future in electoral politics.

  65. #65 |  Cynical in New York | 

    Anytime some neocon or paleocon for that matter comes up to me and tries to “warn” me about Muslims I always ask them if their concern about Muslims is on par with what our own government does to it’s citizens in regards to police abuses and civil liberties abuses. The standard response is usually along the lines of; liberal, traitor, illegal alien and so forth.

  66. #66 |  demize! | 

    #56 you’ve never been to Croatia have you? You think you’re employing a clever rhetorical device, but you’re just exposing your own prejudices. All Muslims aren’t “brown” and all “browns” aren’t Muslims or something like that.

  67. #67 |  Delta | 

    #43: “I wonder why police officers seem to be trained to ALWAYS escalate a situation like this.”

    Haven’t I seen, multiple times, TV documentary of police training, where the primary lesson was “command presence” (control the situation at all times by means of aggressive command voice, etc.)? Seems to me like most of the problems of policing flow out of this single dictum, that the only thing happening on a scene should be things commanded by police officers. I’m a bit mystified by the mystification on this point at the Agitator. Links:

    http://www.lawofficer.com/article/leadership/point-command-presence
    http://www.policetest.info/FORCE_CONTINUUM_POLICE_USE_OF_FORCE.htm

    (Note in the last link on police test prep, mere officer presence counts as the first level of force-initiation. Everything else is a graduated continuation of that.)

  68. #68 |  Delta | 

    #47: “Unlike some other people, I’m willing to treat all people as actual PEOPLE, and take them at their word. They say they want to kill me, to enslave my children, to enslave and/or kill my wife, well, I believe them. And I act accordingly. And, judging by the behaviour on display in muslim countries the world over, I’d say it’s utterly foolish to do otherwise.”

    How about this: Actions speak louder than words. Based on our spending priorities, the USA appears by all lights to be a slavering predatory warmongerer — inasmuch as our military spending is approximately equal to the rest of the world combined.

    So, a modest proposal: Let’s cut the USA military spending back so it’s merely, oh, double that of the second-place military power. (i.e., down to $300B, less than half what it is today). If a byproduct of that is needing to remove the hundred-odd bases in the Middle East and Asia — and reducing outcry from native populations or simply ignoring those who rave on the other side of the planet — then so be it.

    Or I guess we could continue to fuck up our domestic laws in a paranoid response, that seems good, too.

  69. #69 |  Woog | 

    Soooo, Delta… what you’re saying is that all this “Islamophobia” over the behaviors of a certain people-group that proclaim loudly their desire for the death of Westerners is all the fault of the amount of money spent on the US military?

    (I don’t disagree with the idea that the US’ spending is insane and out of control, nor do I disagree that the US political response to “terror” attacks was completely insane; I do mock your attempt to deflect the issue off to a completely unrelated topic.)

  70. #70 |  Deoxy | 

    #56 you’ve never been to Croatia have you? You think you’re employing a clever rhetorical device, but you’re just exposing your own prejudices. All Muslims aren’t “brown” and all “browns” aren’t Muslims or something like that.

    Actually, I very well aware of that, which is why I find it so infuriating when anti-muslim statements are called “racist”. Perhaps you might note that A) the vast majority of the billion+ muslims are non-white, so as a general statement, it’s not inaccurate and B) I was mocking and caricaturing people who arrogantly apply the “bigotry of low expectations” to non-westerners (which would generally include muslims of any skin color), but to non-white people more commonly (despite their claims of being non-racist).

    How about this: Actions speak louder than words. Based on our spending priorities, the USA appears by all lights to be a slavering predatory warmongerer

    Our military capabilities could be absolutely zero, and it would not change the attitude of “islamist” groups towards us in any meaningful way, except perhaps to change the balance between “how much glory there is in hurting them” and “how hard such an operation is to achieve” (both would plummet, and the final balance is hard to judge).

    These groups hate us for being non-muslim. Unless and until we are all converted, or at the very least, openly and explicitly living as “dhimmi” in muslim states (which, in their opinion, should be ALL states), we are the enemy. All that changes is priority of target.

    If you are instead complaining about the military spending on its own merits (and there’s a decent argument for that), I would simply point out the counter-argument that the best bouncer is one so large, strong, and obviously able to kick everyone else to the curb that there are simply no fights at all.

    That’s not to say I necessarily support that argument – there are good arguments on both sides, and I see the merits of both. I tend to lean towards the “peace through superior firepower” methodology, as it is a better backup for when peace fails. Peace will ALWAYS fail at some point… but the counter argument is that it fails more often when there’s so much firepower around waiting to be used, and I think there’s at least some truth to that, as well, so I am conflicted.

  71. #71 |  Delta | 

    “… nothing is more essential than that permanent, inveterate antipathies against particular nations, and passionate attachments for others, should be excluded; and that, in place of them, just and amicable feelings towards all should be cultivated. The nation which indulges towards another a habitual hatred or a habitual fondness is in some degree a slave. It is a slave to its animosity or to its affection, either of which is sufficient to lead it astray from its duty and its interest. Antipathy in one nation against another disposes each more readily to offer insult and injury, to lay hold of slight causes of umbrage, and to be haughty and intractable, when accidental or trifling occasions of dispute occur. Hence, frequent collisions, obstinate, envenomed, and bloody contests…

    Our detached and distant situation invites and enables us to pursue a different course. If we remain one people under an efficient government, the period is not far off when we may defy material injury from external annoyance; when we may take such an attitude as will cause the neutrality we may at any time resolve upon to be scrupulously respected; when belligerent nations, under the impossibility of making acquisitions upon us, will not lightly hazard the giving us provocation; when we may choose peace or war, as our interest, guided by justice, shall counsel.

    Why forego the advantages of so peculiar a situation? Why quit our own to stand upon foreign ground?”

    http://avalon.law.yale.edu/18th_century/washing.asp

  72. #72 |  Penguin Sex « Depressed Economist | 

    […] agree with Radley Balko, any headline that says “depraved sex acts by penguins” should get a link. Share […]

  73. #73 |  Leon Wolfeson | 

    @47 – That’s right, when you repeatedly state that you’re out to kill “the other”, I’ll take you seriously. Islamism is a VERY minor portion of Islamic society, and has no foothold in America.

    There’s plenty of political posturing, but which county invaded Iraq, again?

    Meanwhile, you’re VERY much a threat to a large proportion of the Jewish population which isn’t white (and most of the part that is), and far more common in America. And the UK. So yes, I’m going to treat you as the enemy you’ve declared yourself to be.

    @53/59 – Exactly.

    If you actually track cases of “violence against Jews” in America and Europe, it’s overwhelmingly from white people. Mostly (nominally) Christian or Odinist/Ásatrú (especially from white power movements).

    They’re not terrorists, they’re thugs. And that gets a low “danger” profile in this day and age.

  74. #74 |  Deoxy | 

    Islamism is a VERY minor portion of Islamic society, and has no foothold in America.

    Giggle. The foothold it has in America is fairly small at this point, but it’s not close to none (see “CAIR”, for the most boisterous example).

    And to call it a “very minor portion” is to either A) just make stuff up (commonly known as “lie”), B) define “islamism” so narrowly as to be useless, or C) ascribe to islamists amazing powers of persuasion and/or force (as they are exerting powerful influence in most muslim countries today, including fielding large mobs in multiple cities at the same time).

    There’s plenty of political posturing, but which county invaded Iraq, again?

    The one that was at war with it, after Iraq repeatedly violated multiple conditions of the ceasefire? Yeah, that one. And why was said country at war with Iraq again? Let’s see, genocide against an one of their own people groups and unprovoked invasion of a neighbor both spring to mind.

    But hey, only moral actors can be held accountable for their actions, and, judging by your comments, the US is the only one which can bear blame, so you seem to think we are the only moral actors. Not a good way to think.

    If you actually track cases of “violence against Jews” in America and Europe, it’s overwhelmingly from white people.

    Yes, and 20% of sick days are taken on Fridays! That’s a serious problem…

    In case you missed the sarcasm, white people do “overwhelmingly” everything in Europe and the US, because they are the majority of all people in those places. In fact, if you find something NOT being done primarily by white people in those places, that’s a major statistical outlier begging investigation!

    Meanwhile, you’re VERY much a threat to a large proportion of the Jewish population which isn’t white (and most of the part that is), and far more common in America. And the UK. So yes, I’m going to treat you as the enemy you’ve declared yourself to be.

    Ok, this absolutely mystifies me.

    How did you get from me condemning the most virulently anti-Jewish people on the planet today to me being a threat to Jews?

    That’s some seriously powerful Kool-aid you’ve been drinking.

Leave a Reply