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	<title>Comments on: The Innocence Project Settles With Steven Hayne</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.theagitator.com/2012/05/21/the-innocence-project-settles-with-steven-hayne/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2012/05/21/the-innocence-project-settles-with-steven-hayne/</link>
	<description>It rankles me when somebody tries to tell somebody what to do.</description>
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		<title>By: Thomas</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2012/05/21/the-innocence-project-settles-with-steven-hayne/comment-page-1/#comment-4058465</link>
		<dc:creator>Thomas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Nov 2012 13:48:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=24806#comment-4058465</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Honestly, Steven Hayne needs to be in jail.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Honestly, Steven Hayne needs to be in jail.</p>
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		<title>By: Judi</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2012/05/21/the-innocence-project-settles-with-steven-hayne/comment-page-1/#comment-3274184</link>
		<dc:creator>Judi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 May 2012 13:51:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=24806#comment-3274184</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Pffft...I didn&#039;t give up so easily.  I didn&#039;t give up at all.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pffft&#8230;I didn&#8217;t give up so easily.  I didn&#8217;t give up at all.</p>
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		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2012/05/21/the-innocence-project-settles-with-steven-hayne/comment-page-1/#comment-3270835</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 May 2012 01:08:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=24806#comment-3270835</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[What&#039;s that commercial about being distracted at work, and so doing a bad job and then the wrong guy goest to jail....]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What&#8217;s that commercial about being distracted at work, and so doing a bad job and then the wrong guy goest to jail&#8230;.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: SJE</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2012/05/21/the-innocence-project-settles-with-steven-hayne/comment-page-1/#comment-3270393</link>
		<dc:creator>SJE</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 May 2012 23:14:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=24806#comment-3270393</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[#31: yep.  IMO, we&#039;d go a long way if prosecutor took seriously their job as &quot;justice&quot; instead of &quot;winning convictions,&quot; and the judge as &quot;justice and the law&quot; instead of &quot;processing formalities.&quot;  I do hear more cases of judges intervening, but they are few.  

The best short cut would be to legalize drugs: so far the court system is clogged with drug cases.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#31: yep.  IMO, we&#8217;d go a long way if prosecutor took seriously their job as &#8220;justice&#8221; instead of &#8220;winning convictions,&#8221; and the judge as &#8220;justice and the law&#8221; instead of &#8220;processing formalities.&#8221;  I do hear more cases of judges intervening, but they are few.  </p>
<p>The best short cut would be to legalize drugs: so far the court system is clogged with drug cases.</p>
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		<title>By: Burgers Allday</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2012/05/21/the-innocence-project-settles-with-steven-hayne/comment-page-1/#comment-3270199</link>
		<dc:creator>Burgers Allday</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 May 2012 22:06:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=24806#comment-3270199</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[although the post-iqbal world probably is better for defendants, even relatively impoverished ones (to the extent there are any).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>although the post-iqbal world probably is better for defendants, even relatively impoverished ones (to the extent there are any).</p>
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		<title>By: Burgers Allday</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2012/05/21/the-innocence-project-settles-with-steven-hayne/comment-page-1/#comment-3269956</link>
		<dc:creator>Burgers Allday</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 May 2012 21:13:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=24806#comment-3269956</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@30:  a small pitch for my blog police4aqi.wordpress.com

the latest case i blogged was a semi-interesting en banc out of the 7th cir.  a pro se got all the way to the grant of an en banc hearing by his lonesome.  Big firm lawyer took over for the en banc rehearing.  A sharply divided 9and plurality decision) en banc panel said that the big firm lawyer did a great job on the en banc rehearing, but that the pro se plaintiff was screwed by the new pleading rules before it began.

things my be worse, rather than better, for the undercapitalized in the post-Iqbal world.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@30:  a small pitch for my blog police4aqi.wordpress.com</p>
<p>the latest case i blogged was a semi-interesting en banc out of the 7th cir.  a pro se got all the way to the grant of an en banc hearing by his lonesome.  Big firm lawyer took over for the en banc rehearing.  A sharply divided 9and plurality decision) en banc panel said that the big firm lawyer did a great job on the en banc rehearing, but that the pro se plaintiff was screwed by the new pleading rules before it began.</p>
<p>things my be worse, rather than better, for the undercapitalized in the post-Iqbal world.</p>
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		<title>By: SJE</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2012/05/21/the-innocence-project-settles-with-steven-hayne/comment-page-1/#comment-3269885</link>
		<dc:creator>SJE</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 May 2012 20:49:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=24806#comment-3269885</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[#29: yep, there you have it.  Although I am a lawyer, I really wish that the system were a great deal simpler and cheaper for everyone.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#29: yep, there you have it.  Although I am a lawyer, I really wish that the system were a great deal simpler and cheaper for everyone.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: contrarian</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2012/05/21/the-innocence-project-settles-with-steven-hayne/comment-page-1/#comment-3269808</link>
		<dc:creator>contrarian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 May 2012 20:27:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=24806#comment-3269808</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I was once the defendant in a defamation case. Pretty much everyone involved, including the judge, believed the case was frivolous: everything I had said was true, and the plaintiff was an elected official who by statute could not claim defamation. The case never went to trial, but in order to get it dismissed required a couple of depositions, discovery, motions, an initial dismissal, an appeal and reinstatement, some more motions, court reporter&#039;s fees, transcripts, Lexis-Nexis searches. Fortunately my attorney cut me a break on the fees because I didn&#039;t have insurance and he thought the plaintiff&#039;s conduct was outrageous -- he charged half his normal rate.

The final bill: $55,000.

Had I had insurance, the insurance company would have had to pay full rate, plus their own staff time to manage the case. The insurer would have come out ahead to settle for $100K at the get-go.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was once the defendant in a defamation case. Pretty much everyone involved, including the judge, believed the case was frivolous: everything I had said was true, and the plaintiff was an elected official who by statute could not claim defamation. The case never went to trial, but in order to get it dismissed required a couple of depositions, discovery, motions, an initial dismissal, an appeal and reinstatement, some more motions, court reporter&#8217;s fees, transcripts, Lexis-Nexis searches. Fortunately my attorney cut me a break on the fees because I didn&#8217;t have insurance and he thought the plaintiff&#8217;s conduct was outrageous &#8212; he charged half his normal rate.</p>
<p>The final bill: $55,000.</p>
<p>Had I had insurance, the insurance company would have had to pay full rate, plus their own staff time to manage the case. The insurer would have come out ahead to settle for $100K at the get-go.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2012/05/21/the-innocence-project-settles-with-steven-hayne/comment-page-1/#comment-3269787</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 May 2012 20:19:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=24806#comment-3269787</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;Boscoh, there are any number of ways the coverage can be structured, but typically, for defamation coverage, the option to settle would be left with the insured.&lt;/i&gt;

Since when? It&#039;s completely standard for liability insurance to give the insurer complete control of the defense of any claims against the insured covered by the policy.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Boscoh, there are any number of ways the coverage can be structured, but typically, for defamation coverage, the option to settle would be left with the insured.</i></p>
<p>Since when? It&#8217;s completely standard for liability insurance to give the insurer complete control of the defense of any claims against the insured covered by the policy.</p>
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		<title>By: tarran</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2012/05/21/the-innocence-project-settles-with-steven-hayne/comment-page-1/#comment-3269737</link>
		<dc:creator>tarran</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 May 2012 20:06:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=24806#comment-3269737</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote&gt; Yes, but even against the government, whenever it goes to trial you’ll see the other side doing something along the lines of “Is this another case like Steven Hayne where the IP eventually had to walk back their claims in order to settle a defamation suit?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

If courts ran like they do in a Perry Mason movie, perhaps.

In real life that argument will go nowhere because it&#039;s pounding on the table.  The only way the IP&#039;s opponents would make that argument in court is if they neither have evidence or the law on their side (otherwise that&#039;s what they&#039;d be arguing).  Judges know that people settle even when their case is strong, so they don&#039;t care.  Very little of IP&#039;s work would be in front of  a jury that might be swayed by emotion. I believe it&#039;s almost entirely  appellate work.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p> Yes, but even against the government, whenever it goes to trial you’ll see the other side doing something along the lines of “Is this another case like Steven Hayne where the IP eventually had to walk back their claims in order to settle a defamation suit?</p></blockquote>
<p>If courts ran like they do in a Perry Mason movie, perhaps.</p>
<p>In real life that argument will go nowhere because it&#8217;s pounding on the table.  The only way the IP&#8217;s opponents would make that argument in court is if they neither have evidence or the law on their side (otherwise that&#8217;s what they&#8217;d be arguing).  Judges know that people settle even when their case is strong, so they don&#8217;t care.  Very little of IP&#8217;s work would be in front of  a jury that might be swayed by emotion. I believe it&#8217;s almost entirely  appellate work.</p>
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		<title>By: SJE</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2012/05/21/the-innocence-project-settles-with-steven-hayne/comment-page-1/#comment-3269720</link>
		<dc:creator>SJE</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 May 2012 19:59:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=24806#comment-3269720</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[#25: I see your point.

However, Hayne and his ilk already paint the IP as a bunch of out-of-state Yankee liberal friends of criminals (it doesnt help that one of the founders of IP was associated with the defense of OJ).  So, I don&#039;t see the reputational damage to be so bad.  By contrast, going to trial in the Hayne case would cost a lot of money, even if IP won: that will clearly &quot;hamstring their ability to continue their work in the future&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#25: I see your point.</p>
<p>However, Hayne and his ilk already paint the IP as a bunch of out-of-state Yankee liberal friends of criminals (it doesnt help that one of the founders of IP was associated with the defense of OJ).  So, I don&#8217;t see the reputational damage to be so bad.  By contrast, going to trial in the Hayne case would cost a lot of money, even if IP won: that will clearly &#8220;hamstring their ability to continue their work in the future&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Stormy Dragon</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2012/05/21/the-innocence-project-settles-with-steven-hayne/comment-page-1/#comment-3269647</link>
		<dc:creator>Stormy Dragon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 May 2012 19:41:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=24806#comment-3269647</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[#24: Yes, but even against the government, whenever it goes to trial you&#039;ll see the other side doing something along the lines of &quot;Is this another case like Steven Hayne where the IP eventually had to walk back their claims in order to settle a defamation suit?  How can we be sure that they&#039;re not once again exaggerating the evidence in pursuit of their political agenda?&quot;  It&#039;s not a valid argument, but it&#039;s likely to sway the jury.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#24: Yes, but even against the government, whenever it goes to trial you&#8217;ll see the other side doing something along the lines of &#8220;Is this another case like Steven Hayne where the IP eventually had to walk back their claims in order to settle a defamation suit?  How can we be sure that they&#8217;re not once again exaggerating the evidence in pursuit of their political agenda?&#8221;  It&#8217;s not a valid argument, but it&#8217;s likely to sway the jury.</p>
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		<title>By: SJE</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2012/05/21/the-innocence-project-settles-with-steven-hayne/comment-page-1/#comment-3269630</link>
		<dc:creator>SJE</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 May 2012 19:36:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=24806#comment-3269630</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[#23: Defamation suits are different when it is an individual versus a corporation or government.  

IP had to target Hayne as an individual because he was basically a contractor.  Hayne&#039;s suit is grounded in loss of contract because of defamation.  If Hayne had been a Miss. state employee, IP would sue the goverment, and the govt has a harder time counter suing for defamation for all sorts of legal and practical reasons.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#23: Defamation suits are different when it is an individual versus a corporation or government.  </p>
<p>IP had to target Hayne as an individual because he was basically a contractor.  Hayne&#8217;s suit is grounded in loss of contract because of defamation.  If Hayne had been a Miss. state employee, IP would sue the goverment, and the govt has a harder time counter suing for defamation for all sorts of legal and practical reasons.</p>
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		<title>By: Stormy Dragon</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2012/05/21/the-innocence-project-settles-with-steven-hayne/comment-page-1/#comment-3269521</link>
		<dc:creator>Stormy Dragon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 May 2012 19:03:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=24806#comment-3269521</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The problem is now that IP is going to get this thrown in their face every time they file a case in courts from now on.  This could hamstring their ability to continue their work in the future.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The problem is now that IP is going to get this thrown in their face every time they file a case in courts from now on.  This could hamstring their ability to continue their work in the future.</p>
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		<title>By: ktc2</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2012/05/21/the-innocence-project-settles-with-steven-hayne/comment-page-1/#comment-3269358</link>
		<dc:creator>ktc2</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 May 2012 18:11:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=24806#comment-3269358</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Huge mistake. I wouldn&#039;t doubt he uses this to weasle his way back into his old Mississippi line of work.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Huge mistake. I wouldn&#8217;t doubt he uses this to weasle his way back into his old Mississippi line of work.</p>
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		<title>By: Burgers Allday</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2012/05/21/the-innocence-project-settles-with-steven-hayne/comment-page-1/#comment-3269202</link>
		<dc:creator>Burgers Allday</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 May 2012 17:20:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=24806#comment-3269202</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@20:

I would prefer they did an anti-SLAPP law instead.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@20:</p>
<p>I would prefer they did an anti-SLAPP law instead.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff Hall</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2012/05/21/the-innocence-project-settles-with-steven-hayne/comment-page-1/#comment-3269194</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Hall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 May 2012 17:18:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=24806#comment-3269194</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Mississippi clearly needs a SLAPP law]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mississippi clearly needs a SLAPP law</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: tarran</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2012/05/21/the-innocence-project-settles-with-steven-hayne/comment-page-1/#comment-3269168</link>
		<dc:creator>tarran</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 May 2012 17:14:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=24806#comment-3269168</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Looking at the big picture, they were looking at the upside and downsides of both the settlement and going to trial.

The insurance company can&#039;t afford to litigate every case to its conclusion without blowing through their reserves.  

The IP has largely accomplished their goal of pulling Hayne&#039;s teeth. The man is utterly discredited. There is little upside to winning their case in court, and it would easily cost $100,000. Certainly even if they won handily, and got a judge to award them attorney&#039;s fees and costs, they are unlikely to get any money out of the ruined Hayne.

The downside is that they could lose and have to pay his attorney fees.  If they go it alone, they could still lose their insurance coverage, and let&#039;s face it, the IP is going to get sued numerous times in the future.

It sucks, but this is the way life works.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Looking at the big picture, they were looking at the upside and downsides of both the settlement and going to trial.</p>
<p>The insurance company can&#8217;t afford to litigate every case to its conclusion without blowing through their reserves.  </p>
<p>The IP has largely accomplished their goal of pulling Hayne&#8217;s teeth. The man is utterly discredited. There is little upside to winning their case in court, and it would easily cost $100,000. Certainly even if they won handily, and got a judge to award them attorney&#8217;s fees and costs, they are unlikely to get any money out of the ruined Hayne.</p>
<p>The downside is that they could lose and have to pay his attorney fees.  If they go it alone, they could still lose their insurance coverage, and let&#8217;s face it, the IP is going to get sued numerous times in the future.</p>
<p>It sucks, but this is the way life works.</p>
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		<title>By: tarran</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2012/05/21/the-innocence-project-settles-with-steven-hayne/comment-page-1/#comment-3269146</link>
		<dc:creator>tarran</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 May 2012 17:08:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=24806#comment-3269146</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote&gt; After all, now that CU has turned insurance companies into ppl&lt;/blockquote&gt;

You really are an imbecille.  It did no such thing.  The court decided that you couldn&#039;t have one set of rules for the Tribune corporation and another for a corporation called Citizens United. And given a choice between ordering the New York Times to stop publishing news stories on politics or allowing all companies the same privileges accorded to the Times, they made the no-brainer correct choice.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p> After all, now that CU has turned insurance companies into ppl</p></blockquote>
<p>You really are an imbecille.  It did no such thing.  The court decided that you couldn&#8217;t have one set of rules for the Tribune corporation and another for a corporation called Citizens United. And given a choice between ordering the New York Times to stop publishing news stories on politics or allowing all companies the same privileges accorded to the Times, they made the no-brainer correct choice.</p>
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		<title>By: SJE</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2012/05/21/the-innocence-project-settles-with-steven-hayne/comment-page-1/#comment-3269123</link>
		<dc:creator>SJE</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 May 2012 16:59:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=24806#comment-3269123</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[While the insurance carrier may not be able to force the IP to settle now, the carrier can decline to renew insurance next year, or charge a great deal more.  A carrier can spend a lot more than 100K getting too the actual trial, never mind the actual trial etc.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While the insurance carrier may not be able to force the IP to settle now, the carrier can decline to renew insurance next year, or charge a great deal more.  A carrier can spend a lot more than 100K getting too the actual trial, never mind the actual trial etc.</p>
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