Here We Go Again

Saturday, May 5th, 2012

From the good folks at Keep Columbia Free:

A few days ago, SWAT officers of the Fulton (Missouri) Police Department shot and killed a dog while serving a “narcotics” search warrant. The residents of the house asked if they could cage the dog. The officers denied the request, ordering that the dog to be chained to a tree. The dog got loose and was then shot eight times, the first six shots wounding the dog and the last two point-blank, shotgun blasts killing it. After finishing off the first dog, the officers turned their guns on caged puppies only stopping when confronted by concerned neighbors.

They found enough pot to charge the guy with a misdemeanor. There’s a local news account at the link.

By the way, Fulton, Missouri has all of about 13,000 people. But they do have their own SWAT team.

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74 Responses to “Here We Go Again”

  1. #1 |  Richard Sparrow | 

    I would like to offer a clarification about Fulton, MO. The town may be small, but it houses the state’s maximum security mental health facility. I suspect that the excuse for the SWAT team’s existence is the concentrated number of disturbed criminals at that hospital. Of course that does not excuse any overuse of that power. Puppycide crosses that line.

  2. #2 |  Doubleu | 

    The unions push for SWAT teams because the officers can get paid more. We have a town of 21,000 and they have a SWAT team. A newly hired police officer just starting his career cost the town $100,000 a year.

  3. #3 |  perlhaqr | 

    Brave fuckin’ neighbors.

  4. #4 |  Sandhillpam | 

    Despicable! Odd though, there are no results for a “Google News” search.

  5. #5 |  Burgers Allday | 

    Another load of soldiers back from the occupation. Whate else is new. Ho many tour(s) of duty did the shooeter(s) do. Its just how they were trained to roll.

  6. #6 |  R. Pointer | 

    Because, the sweet irony that the small town where Winston Churchill gave his “Iron Curtain Speech” could militarize its own police force was just too much to pass up. That, and they probably got a grant.

  7. #7 |  a_random_guy | 

    From the video: “Police say an investigation into the officers’ actions is a possibility”. How reassuring…

  8. #8 |  M Hay | 

    These po dunk towns have SWAT Teams because it also allows them more easily to such from the Federal Teat for grant money. Plus, it is like anything, every Chief wants to go sit at the Missouri Police Chief’s Association Dinner and say they have a SWAT Team. Just like the fact they have scameras that they install to generate revenue, just so they can hire the officers to sit there and watch them, all so they can say that have 50, 75, 100 Officers on their department. It is all about keeping up with the Jones. Why do these folks need tanks, and why does “Homeland Security” need MRAPS?

  9. #9 |  30 year lawyer | 

    A mother dog with puppies. How did they expect her to respond to the threat the police brought into her world.

    BTW, what high school dropout decided that a chain was superior to a cage? Doesn’t the Fulton County Jail have cells?

  10. #10 |  EH | 

    #8: What do you mean, “expect?” It’s institutional and intentional cruelty, plain and simple. The officers never fear for their safety against these dogs, they just shoot them.

  11. #11 |  EH | 

    What the newspapers need to be asking is not why it happened, but what the department’s policy is that prevented the officers from allowing the owners to crate their dog, if there is one.

  12. #12 |  Daniel Almond | 

    Good job, Mr. Balko on putting this kind of thing out there, but I really think you should shine some more light on the prosecutors who decide to look the other way by not putting these cops in front of juries. It’s the same story over and over again, and the critical node in this stuff is the prosecutor who has jurisdiction and chooses to look the other way. Every one of these stories should include the name, face, and contact info of the prosecutor who looks the other way. They’ve been getting too many free passes, IMO. If I had more time to blog I would do this myself.

  13. #13 |  Robert Hewes | 

    Caged fucking puppies? WTF?

  14. #14 |  StrangeOne | 

    Seriously caged puppies?

    I know we make a lot of comments about these kinds of cops being sociopaths, but honestly I usually just consider your average dog shooting cop to be a coward. This is a whole different level. No person that would even consider doing something this cruel deserves to police his fellow human beings. They lack the moral capacity of dog catchers, that puts them well outside the realm of being trusted with people.

    Whats with the shotgun blasts on the first dog anyways? These idiots couldn’t kill a dog with six shots, so they had to double tap the poor thing with a shotgun just to be sure? These freaking Barney Fife’s think they’re hunting Cujo. Not just cruel and stupid, but terrible shots to boot.

  15. #15 |  Charlie O | 

    More cowards with guns and badges.

  16. #16 |  Terry H. | 

    My hometown back in Ohio has all of 3700 people…and a SWAT team.

  17. #17 |  Bill Poser | 

    I’m dying to know what the police department’s explanation is for the attempt to kill the caged puppies. The best I can think of is that they’re such cowards they are scared of caged puppies, but that doesn’t really fly.

  18. #18 |  derfel cadarn | 

    The police in this nation are a bunch of out of control thugs,they provide NO services equal to the amount of damage they do to society. We would be far better off disbanding ALL police forces and training and arming citizens. To think that we pay to be abused by these assholes is infuriating. They along with their elitist leaders will sooner or latter be required to pay the piper. Hopefully for their sakes that the true Americans that will be victorious will also be magnanimous even though they do not deserve it.

  19. #19 |  CK | 

    @Bill:
    Because killing things is fun. Spend any time in the military and you will learn that; it is the leit motif of Army Strong HooRah Be all the killer that you can safely be. If you can’t kill man just kill man’s best and oldest friend.
    Or:
    How many stories have we read about the brave coppers killing lolcats?
    @18 Derfel of course they are thugs, they are the pointy end of the governmental stick. They are the ones that live off theft and enforce the other bureaucrats democracy/thievery. It is the inevitable degeneration of welfare state democracy combined with unmentionable diversity.
    If it oinks it’s probably on the public payroll.

  20. #20 |  Mannie | 

    After finishing off the first dog, the officers turned their guns on caged puppies only stopping when confronted by concerned neighbors.

    Once cops have tasted blood, you have to put them down, because they go berserk.

  21. #21 |  Mike | 

    When will people start going to the cops’ houses and shooting their dogs, I’m front of their children? Of course, that will result in jail for a long time. OK for them, not for us.

  22. #22 |  Whim | 

    Shooting the pet dog in front of the suspect is intended to shock and terrorize the citizenry.

    The police actually want to shoot the suspect or his family, but absent some pretext, all they can muster is shooting the family pet dog.

    If you see your pet dog blown to pieces by the police with six pistol shots and two final shots with a shotgun, then you will likely involuntarily quiver and shake the next time your see a police car drive by.

    That’s what it’s all about. Conditioning……a.k.a. OBEDIANCE TRAINING.

    In 1993, the Waco Massacre started with the ATF shooting the pet dogs and a litter of puppies of the Branch Davidians a.k.a. 7th Day Adventists……this isn’t a new police terror technique.

  23. #23 |  Aresen | 

    Burgers Allday | May 5th, 2012 at 12:35 pm

    Another load of soldiers back from the occupation.

    Evidence, please. I saw nothing in the linked article to indicate that.

  24. #24 |  The Late Andy Rooney | 

    #22

    IIRC, the shooting of a teenage boy’s dog also figured prominently in the Ruby Ridge standoff. That was in 1992, I believe.

  25. #25 |  Linda | 

    A little suprised the concerned neighbors weren’t shot. Or tased and arrested.

  26. #26 |  Burgers Allday | 

    When will people start going to the cops’ houses and shooting their dogs, I’m front of their children? Of course, that will result in jail for a long time. OK for them, not for us.

    George Hitcho is on trial for murder for killing a cop (Officer Lasso) to prevent Lasso from killing his dog in his own yard.

    No one seems to be helping him.

    People don’t even know / remember.

  27. #27 |  Burgers Allday | 

    Evidence, please. I saw nothing in the linked article to indicate that.

    They are police in Mo. Statistically they are military veterans. You may show evidence otherwise if you can muster any (but you can’t, foo).

  28. #28 |  AlgerHiss | 

    I wonder if the Fulton Chamber of Commerce knows about this?

    http://www.callawaychamber.com/

    And perhaps their city leaders are unaware?

    http://fultonmo.org/

  29. #29 |  Rick H. | 

    They are police in Mo. Statistically they are military veterans.You may show evidence otherwise if you can muster any

    You’re the one who keeps flogging the cops = soldiers meme. Your allegation, your burden of proof. Also, “statistically”? That’s the same argument cops claim when slaughtering particular breeds of dogs.

    I’m as anti-military as anyone, but such lazy logic and inane (and irrelevant) proclamations just muddy the water. They help the badgelickers maintain the status quo.

  30. #30 |  croaker | 

    @12 putting cops in front of a jury won’t work. They’ll just cut them loose like what happened in White Plains NY last week.

  31. #31 |  Delta | 

    ^ Keeping in mind that anyone even partly skeptical of police credibility or behavior gets filtered out of any jury pool by judge/prosecutor.

  32. #32 |  Krishan Bhattacharya | 

    The towns got a %15 African-American population. I would bet good money that these raids are done primarily in the black neighborhoods. The SWAT teams are there to intimidate.

  33. #33 |  Burgers Allday | 

    You’re the one who keeps flogging the cops = soldiers meme. Your allegation, your burden of proof. Also, “statistically”? That’s the same argument cops claim when slaughtering particular breeds of dogs.

    Those dogs didn’t occupy (and kill a bunch of ppl) in Iraq and Afghanistan.

    Why, of why are the police suddenly killing dogs?

    Ans: Because they are trained that way. See also, the Collateral Murder video.

  34. #34 |  Phil in Parker | 

    Re: EH @11
    The department policy of “Fuck You, we have a warrant”.

  35. #35 |  Phil in Parker | 

    I have read in many places, from many credible sources, that the military is offended by calling these tactics “military”. The real military takes every opportunity to not piss off the locals.

    This is thuggery, most likely from military wanna-be’s.

  36. #36 |  Rick H. | 

    Those dogs didn’t occupy (and kill a bunch of ppl) in Iraq and Afghanistan.
    Thanks for the non sequitur.

    Why, of why are the police suddenly killing dogs?
    Your assumption ignores the financial and technological forces behind increasing police militarization, a development which is not at all “sudden” and has been well covered on this very website. Not to mention the fact that with cameras, such abuses are much easier to document, thus we see them more often. Also, you presume that these cops aren’t frustrated NON-soldiers who just like to play military-style, yet have no training whatsoever.

    Once again, I’m not saying your theory is wrong. I’m saying it’s your theory, not an established fact, and you’ve given no evidence to support it.

  37. #37 |  Stephen | 

    OT –

    http://dfw.cbslocal.com/2012/05/04/woman-jailed-for-trying-to-fill-a-prescription/

  38. #38 |  Resistance | 

    If that were to happen to either of my two dogs, I would respond with like force. Fuck LEO.

  39. #39 |  Mark Z. | 

    The real military takes every opportunity to not piss off the locals.

    If they took every opportunity, they’d fucking stay in America where the locals mostly like them.

  40. #40 |  Phelps | 

    Sounds ripe for a felony animal cruelty prosecution.

  41. #41 |  el coronado | 

    @#33 –

    You’re either not much of a listener, or you just don’t want to listen. Yeah, no one’s denying that some ex-mil guys go into copping. But you and you alone – as has been pointed out – are the only one here peddling the ‘killa ex-mil’ cops story. And then claiming victory when someone doesn’t trot out voluminous citations to counter *your* uncited, unsourced off-the-cuff proclamation: what scientists call a wild-ass guess.

    As has been noted earlier:
    1) the Ruby Ridge atrocity was in 1992. It started when a Brave Federal Warrior shot a kid’s dog – and then bravely shot the kid in the back.
    2) the Brave Federal Warriors at Waco shot a *penned* mama dog **and her pups**. That was in 1993.
    3) Unless you wanna claim Grenada or Panama vets, your ‘psycho ex-sodjer’ meme won’t work for ’92 & ’93, will it.
    4) Last I checked, soldiers in the various sandboxes operate under *much more stringent* fire authorization ROE’s than any PD here in the UPSA. 99%+ of them follow those profoundly stupid and dangerous-to-themselves ROE’s to the letter. But according to you, they must all morph into trigger-happy psychos once they get back home??
    5) the cops aren’t “suddenly shooting dogs”. It’s been going on for decades – it was just never reported, because a reporter knew if he wrote about it, he’d lose each & every cop source he had – and would have to go back to burger-flipping. You’ll notice it’s STILL not ever reported on the MSM – just the blogosphere.

  42. #42 |  tarran | 

    Frankly, Burgers is demonstrating a classic – archetypal even – example of prejudice and stereotyping.

    Note how he keeps referring people to the Collateral Murder video as some sort of slam-dunk that soldiers=sociopaths.

    The reality, of course, is far more nuanced.

    Yes, war causes severe damage to people’s mental state. Yes, some people become quite brutal as a result..

    The problem with Burger’s thesis is that the militirization of the police happened for reasons having nothing to do with the military. Nowhere in Radley’s analyses police brutlaity, excessive violence, tec do the brutality of veterans becoming cops show up as a significant issue. It’s like blaming the racism of pewee hockey coaches for the lack of pacific islanders in the sport.

  43. #43 |  Cynical in New York | 

    #39

    Interesting theory. I always wonder what the reactions would be if a mass amount of military personal refuse to be deployed in Iraq and Afghanistan. Granted the actual message of “we don’t believe in policing the world” would be lost and translated to fit various conservative and liberal talking points.

  44. #44 |  Burgers Allday | 

    Some Circumstantial Evidence Is Very Strong, As When You Find A Trout In The Milk. People who are trained to be an occupying army will do mean thing gratuitously, like shooting dogs. Twas ever thus and now the problem has come home to America in a big way.

  45. #45 |  Burgers Allday | 

    And, you really should ask yourself: Why is it such a big deal to keep military veterans out of the police? There are so many other things they can do and they are so talented and full of goodness and all that. Their opportunities must be mindboggling if veterans have the kind of personal merit and unwarped minds that y’all think they do.

    So, why not keep them out of the domestic police force? Just to humor Burgers, if for no other reason?

    What “hard evidence” was the posse commitatus act based on?

    Answer: no hard evidence, just common sense. Common sense should still be applied, even in the era of American (military) exceptionalism. Because now it is OUR ox getting gored by these armed and dangerous military verterans.

  46. #46 |  Burgers Allday | 

    Triple post:

    Does anybody know whether [i]Kwais[/i] is a cop yet?

  47. #47 |  Radley Balko | 

    Some Circumstantial Evidence Is Very Strong, As When You Find A Trout In The Milk

    The criticism of you here is that you have zero evidence that many or some or any of the cops involved in these stories are former military. The mere fact that they’re engaging in paramilitary-like tactics isn’t evidence that they were in the military. In fact, military people have told me these raids are often too sloppy and hyper-aggressive to even merit the term “militarization.” That is, even the military doesn’t pull some of this crap in Afghanistan or Iraq, and that any vet who did participate in raids in those countries would want no part of the sorts of drug raids we see here.

    There are former military people in police departments. There was definitely a surge in the 1990s, thanks to Clinton’s “Troops to Cops” program. But the troops who benefited from that program didn’t see much in the way of combat. What’s more, these tactics have been on the rise since the 1980s. And there’s simply no evidence that the trend has been driven by some influx of ex-military into domestic police forces. None.

  48. #48 |  Burgers Allday | 

    Because we don’t know who is shooting the dogs. That is why I have access to no evidence. Once we track who is shooting the dogs it will be shown whether I am right or wrong. I’d love to get the data and be proven wrong (but that won’t happen).

    As it is, we can’t even find out if the Austin shooter or the Columbia shooter or the shooter of Hitcho’s dog or this new Missouri dog shooter are ex-military. That needs to change. We need to know. We need this information to solve the policy problem correctly.

    If getting soldiers to not act like soldiers was as simple as telling them a different ROE to be applied domestically then there would be no need for Posse Commitatus Act. I understand that the others don’t understand what that previous statement means, but you do.

  49. #49 |  tarran | 

    If getting soldiers to not act like soldiers was as simple as telling them a different ROE to be applied domestically then there would be no need for Posse Commitatus Act.

    You’re a moron.

    The posse comitatus act had nothing to do with the temperment of soldiers, and everything to do with the military’s command structure being ill-suited to oversee law enforcement and the lack of accountability of Federal troops occupying the confederacy in the state court system.

    IF you were right, the cops who participated in the pacific campaigns against Japan would have engaged in a holocaust of dog-shooting and deranged-war-vet-syndrome assaults.

    IT DIDN’T HAPPEN BECAUSE IT’S NOT A SYSTEMIC PROBLEM.

    Does combat cause disordered behavior? Yes!

    Does the military reward some pretty psychotic individuals with promotion and power over their less psychotic comrades? Absolutely!

    Are these people a large enough percentage of the population that a blanket prohibition of having military become cops is appropriate. The idea is laughable!

    The systemic problem is that police don’t police themselves at all well. The blue wall of silence and the culture of testilying allow bad apples, from whatever source to spoil the barrel!

    The systemic problem is that courts believe police despite the fact that police are no more biased to be honest than the non-police.

    The systemic problem is that people want to like the police (and for that matter the military) and shut their eyes to the evidence that policemen (and military people) have huge incentives to lie and mislead to preserve the power of their group or their status within it.

    Tackle the incentives and institutions that shield malefactors from the consequences of their bad behavior, and the problem will go away.

    Prevent soldiers from becoming cops, and the puppycide will continue.

  50. #50 |  Burgers Allday | 

    No, Tarran.

    A rule forbidding ex-military from becoming policemen would change the institutional attitudes at police departments.

    IOW, it would change how the military veteran policemen behave (because there would no longer be any of these), and, it would also change how the remaining non-military-veteran policemen remaining would behave.

    The problem is attitudinal. The military teached speople to not give a crap about killing dogs. A soldier may allow a dog to live, but not if that dog increases his personal risk by the tiniest jot. Then the soldier is trained to kill the dog (or Pat Tillman, as the case may be). This is the attitude that is never unlearned. It is the right attitude for an occupying army, but this training does not require the soldier to actually have been a face to face occupying soldier — they all learn it now. It is nothing they taught soldiers in WWII, but they do now and have for awhile.

    This has nothing to do with shell shock or post traumatic stress or derangement or anything like that. This is about normal people getting normal occupation army training that simply renders them unusable for regular domestic police work. It is why so many dogs are shot now. Not every dog slaughtered is killed by a military veteran, but, if you get rid of that portion of the problem then the rest will dry up and fall away.

  51. #51 |  sigh | 

    “Another load of soldiers back from the occupation. Whate else is new. Ho many tour(s) of duty did the shooeter(s) do. Its just how they were trained to roll.”

    Cops operate under a lot less scrutiny than soldiers in many ways, and are generally not constrained by the same sorts of rules of engagement.

    If anything, this sort of SWAT team nonsense is what I expect from cops who are NOT veterans. Part of the whole “police militarization” problem is a bunch of yahoo cops being handed equipment that they simply do not have the training, professionalism, or institutional outlook to use correctly, if such equipment even can be used correctly here in the first place.

    There is a growing rift between the military and civilian law enforcement – vets (unlike other cops – and like everyone else – ) don’t get special treatment; they’re having this sort of BS happen to them as well.

  52. #52 |  Burgers Allday | 

    @51:

    Are you in the market for a bridge by any chance? One that could produce a lot of toll for it owner if managed correctly . . .

  53. #53 |  jcalton | 

    The military has the Uniform Code of Military Justice and, by-and-large, it’s applied pretty well (and often) to the troops [high-ranking officers, not so much].
    If there were a Uniform Code of Law Enforcement Justice, things would be so much different in this country.

    Also, isn’t the blind pro-LEO argument that if you aren’t doing anything wrong, you don’t have anything to be concerned about? Couldn’t we say the same thing about a UCLEJ and good cops?

  54. #54 |  Burgers Allday | 

    I challenge anyone to name me a soldier who has gotten in trouble for shooting a dog in Iraq or Afghanistan.*

    That doesn’t happen.

    Not all regcits just fell off the turnip truck (altho obviously some did).

    Find me an Iraqi who is willing to say that US soldiers didn’t run around shooting Iraqi dogs at will. If you want cred here, then that is how you get it. Either that or some vid of soldiers forebearing from shooting brking Iraqi dogs. How’s YOUR evidence, troops? Yuuuuuuuuuuuup. Thought so.

    FOOTNOTE:

    * Yeah, I remember when that marine (iirc) in Hawaii (iirc) got in trouble for pretending to throw a puppy off a cliff and then allowing this puppy throwing video to get out to the general public (who reacted unfavorably). He may or may not have gotten in real trouble, ultimately, but this is not the type of thing we are talking about here.

  55. #55 |  Radley Balko | 

    Burgers:

    You still haven’t cited a single source to back up all of these assertions.

  56. #56 |  Burgers Allday | 

    That is true, Mr. Balko. Sometimes in life one has to make tentative and provisional judgements that should be based on facts that should be known to one, but aren’t known to one through no fault of one’s own.

    As a private citizen I have no way of knowing whether various policemen who have shot dogs are exmilitary or not.

    If you have better info, or, as a journalist, can get such info then please, please, please give it to me. I can pay you for it if money is the issue (but I doubt it is).

    In the absence of affirmative info, all anybody can do is speculate. And that is equally true of people guessing that all these dog shooters are non-ex-military as it is of ppl (like me, perhaps only me) who are guessing that these dog shooters are ex-US-military.

    Of course, the real answer is to join together and declare that this informational vacuum should, nay, must, be filled, rather than having one side of speculators cast aspersions on the other side.

    We need to know whether these ppl are ex-military. By your tone I almost feel like you don’t want this particular info. I am trying to convince you that you should want it (and, further, that u give it to me if/when u get it).

    Not being a journalist it is the best I can do. When an issue falls into my balliwick, I think u know that I always try to research and help the best I can, in line with my training and experience. This is one where I need YOUR help. I wish I didn’t, but I do.

  57. #57 |  tarran | 

    That is true, Mr. Balko. Sometimes in life one has to make tentative and provisional judgements that should be based on facts that should be known to one, but aren’t known to one through no fault of one’s own.

    As a private citizen I have no way of knowing whether various policemen who have shot dogs are exmilitary or not.

    That’s an awfully wordy way to say “I’m prejudiced.”

  58. #58 |  johnl | 

    Burgers it’s you who are naive. Police in the USA have inadequate oversight, bad tactics, perverse incentives, and bad hiring policies, among other problems. The idea that those don’t matter, and that it’s only hiring vets that causes problems is bizarre.

  59. #59 |  Burgers Allday | 

    “I’m prejudiced.”

    First, prejudice isn’t always a bad thing. That is why my response was so wordy.

    Second, you, Tarran, are just as prejudiced as me. Probably more. It is right in your comments.

    Third, my prejudice here is not based on skin color (which is impossible to change as Michael Jackson found out) or homosexuality (again, probably not a mutable characteristic), but on the fact that a large group of people are trained to kill and to kill upon what would be considered as insufficient provocation in a domestic “US civilian” setting. We are not just talking about training in the nature of, say, dental hygenist school, or even the somewhat more rigorous training of law school. We are talking about a special kind of training that actually tries to get at a man’s reflexes and to manage what triggers will cause a split second decision to shoot or not shoot. As far as how these triggers are calibrated, I know because I follow the news.

    I know how they fired on Jessica Lynch’s ambulance, and also on the van coming to give aid in the Collateral Murder video. Then there is the part of the Collateral Murder where they fired the missiles into a building. Of course, the indifference to human life in these incidents is understandable because the US military was occupying Iraq and the Iraqi civilians behaved poorly and had to be dealt with harshly. It can never be forgotten that several thousand US soldiers perished in that war, with some of those deaths being at the hands of Iraqi people.

    How could you not hear about the Jose Guerena raid and not think “Nissour Square”?

    Like I said, I haven’t heard about any shooting of Iraqi dogs. If a white US soldier went to prison for that, it would be national news. You draw the conclusion that the military must not be shooting dogs in Iraq. I know better. It is fair play over there (as it well should be because the Iraqi people supported 9/11 and then made IED’s when the occupying army came in).

    In conclusion, it is good for the US soldiers to behave the way they did in Iraq, but that training they received, and those experiences they had, should be taken seriously. Part of that involves not letting these people be US police officers in the modern US. Maybe there was Barney Fife time when it wasn’t an issue that the WWII vets were coming into the domestic ranks. Those times are gone. Way gone. I think the My Lai massacre may have been the turning point.

  60. #60 |  Ted S. | 

    I for one won’t believe Burgers Allday until he produces a transcript of every 911 call he’s made.

  61. #61 |  Boyd Durkin | 

    What’s that line from Tropic Thunder? “Never go full…” something.

  62. #62 |  Boyd Durkin | 

    I think I just read that Iraqi people supported 911 (remember that the US supported Saddam’s brutal regime) so it is perfectly OK to shoot their dogs.

    Iraqi peasants didn’t cause 911, just liked it…so shoot their puppies.

    I think Burgers might be Dick Cheney.

  63. #63 |  Steve | 

    Some one who doesn’t dislike P.E.T.A. as much as me should sick them on that town. It would be interesting to see how that worked out.

  64. #64 |  KristenS | 

    @ #63 – your assumption is PETA gives two shits about animals. Your assumption is false. PETA exists as a fundraising organization, and the “animal rights” stuff is merely the tool they use to collect money.

    Beter to sic the ASPCA or Humane Society on them.

  65. #65 |  Radley Balko | 

    We need to know whether these ppl are ex-military.

    Then go find out. You have a phone, don’t you? I know you have an Internet connection. The studies I’ve seen have shown that cops with military experience are less likely to use force, including shooting their guns.

    By your tone I almost feel like you don’t want this particular info.

    I don’t think it’s relevant, or a good use of my time. I suppose we could also check to see whether cops who shoot dogs were breastfed. I’m not sure what good it would do. The problems with police departments at the moment are bad incentives; poor training; martial rhetoric, equipment, and tactics; and lack of consequences for bad behavior. You put any group of people into that environment and you’re going to have problems. You obviously feel differently. So go prove us wrong.

    Not being a journalist it is the best I can do. This is one where I need YOUR help. I wish I didn’t, but I do.

    Bullshit. You don’t need a license to do journalism. If you really want to get to the bottom of whether cops who shoot dogs have military experience, I’ll divulge to you a secret journalistic technique to you that we journalists only learn after years and years of training: Call the police department and ask them. If they won’t tell you, send them an open records request. Anyone can do this. If you don’t know how, Google “open records request” plus the state where the department is located.

    But it’s a bit ridiculous to expect me to use my time to look for evidence that validate your theories.

  66. #66 |  Burgers Allday | 

    Because I don’t have names for the Columbia and Fulton shootings, it seems pointless to call on those. In the Austin shooting you got me a name, so I will start by investigating that one.

    As it turns out, the Austin pd site (at least the main one thru austin.gov) doesn’t have a phone contact for the Austin police department, but just an email contact.

    So, I went ahead and emailed them my question just now.

    Thank you for your help.

  67. #67 |  el coronado | 

    Just because it’s Monday, & everybody knows Monday is Conspiracy day….anyone else ever consider the possibility that Burgers is a cop who wanted to muddy the water here by changing the discussion from ‘cops killing dawgs’ to something completely irrelevant and different and off-topic?

    And succeeding hugely?

    LBJ once famously gave advice on how to do something like this to a colleague in a tight race, coming down to the wire. When the friend called him for advice, LBJ suggested “call [the opponent] a pig-fucker. He’ll be so busy trying to put out that fire, he’ll forget all about you.” There’s at least 31 flavors of disinformation. Just sayin’.

  68. #68 |  Burgers Allday | 

    @67:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2080702/Horror-U-S-soldiers-blow-dog-Iraq-film-it.html

    Liv it, lern it, luv it. Dems yo peeps.

  69. #69 |  Burgers Allday | 

    Updated Status:

    Okay, the Austin PD confirmed that I must submit an “open records request” and instructed me how to submit by email, which I have now done.

  70. #70 |  johnl | 

    Great. Thanks for the update Burgers.

  71. #71 |  Louie USD | 

    Quintana, Young, Fox, Cavener and Warner are all SWAT cops in Columbia, but I’m not sure who was the trigger-man for each of the dog shooting incidents. Warner is the cameraman in the Jonathan Ryan March – Columbia, MO SWAT raid where two dogs were killed while retreating. Warner is a school resource officer and a pretty cool guy who while on stage at a recent fundraiser told a large group of people that he supports marijuana legalization in small amounts for use in your own home. Call the CPD and ask for Jill Schlude. She is the PIO and easy to get along with. You might also check the Citizens for Justice website. They have compiled tons of info on the CPD.

    Here is a F-ed up video on Columbia SWAT
    http://gocolumbiamo.granicus.com/MediaPlayer.php?view_id=3&clip_id=109

    Here is the swat raid on Jonathan Ryan March’s house where two dogs are killed with Warner as cameraman
    http://www.keepcolumbiafree.com/blog/cpd-swat-killed-two-retreating-dogs-in-2008-video/

    Here is an interview with Jonathan Ryan March, SWAT raid victim.
    http://www.keepcolumbiafree.com/blog/jonathan-ryan-march-interview/

    Here is the Citizens for Justice site with officer info
    http://cfjcomo.com/officers.php

    Here is how you contact CPD
    http://www.gocolumbiamo.com/Police/Contact_Us/index.php

    No go out and become a journalist, Burgers!

  72. #72 |  Burgers Allday | 

    Sounds good, Louie USD, but if the media can’t figure out who shot Jonathan Ryan March’s dogs, then I don’t think I can. Maybe I’ll try to get in touch with Jonathan Ryan March himself and see if he knows. The names you have provided could help narrow it down.

    Now that I am in wait-for-response mode on Officer Thomas Griffin, I think the next one I want to check into is Troy Burnett.

    Both the shooting by Griffin and the shooting by Burnett (I mean his second doemstic kill, not his first) are on relative cler videos and they are exactly how I imagine a US military veteran would make his kills. Quick and to the point, without a hint of remorse. Not like Christopher Long sobbing in the yard, or Johannes Mehserle’s Forest Gumping.

    After Burnett, hopefully find the triggerpeople in Guerena’s case. I think they may have reported the names of the cops who saw Guerena’s muzzle flash (although it did not), but those individuals may not have been among the shooters. This is why the Burnett shooting video is so important. You can see exactly what he saw and exactly what kind of opportunity he gave his victim to surrender.

  73. #73 |  Burgers Allday | 

    status update:

    I have heard back from my open records request on Officer Griffin:

    This email is in response to your recent Open Record request received by the Austin Police Department on 5/7/12. In response to your inquiry, Officer Griffin does not have Military Experience..

    So, I will take that under advisement and move on to Burnett.

  74. #74 |  Cops shoot penned dog, chase and shoot two others, during marijuana bust | The Russ Belville Show | 

    [...] every story of canicide (murder of dogs) by cop I have to cover erodes that respect. Too often I read a local newspaper’s all-too-common tale of police using SWAT tactics to serve [...]

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