As for the civil war- just remember that it really wasn’t that popular of a war at the time – the suspension of habeas corpus was for people against the war up NORTH, not against the southern rebels. If it was so bad that they couldn’t drum up the will to fight it without imprisoning the folks speaking out against it, I’m thinking that it really doesn’t even apply to this conversation. Many, if not most, folks in the North didn’t see this as a war of national survival at first. it took a lot of talking by Lincoln to get them on board, along with a lot of “shutting up” the opposition.

In WWII, I’d be interested to see if we really NEEDED to resort to a draft. I know that we had one, but did we really NEED it? Would many of the draftees have signed up anyway, but found out that they were going to be drafted and just let it happen? Would we have had enough volunteers to fight that war?

I don’t know. What I do know is that I’ve heard a lot of folks say that when there was a draft, they were planning to sign up anyway, but just got drafted first.

THe sad fact is that my “all-volunteer” plan in time of emergency has never been tried. Our government has always been quick to enslave men instead of giving them the chance to join on their own accord, so we really don’t have any way to know whether this is true or not.

What I do know is that we’ve had enough volunteers in the last ten years to fight two foreign wars, which aren’t all that popular, in bad conditions with bad politics and shitty ROEs. If you can do that, why couldn’t you get enough of a force together to fight off a true threat to our existence?

If it came down to it, and I got in line with everyone else, chances are they wouldn’t take me, but even THAT wouldn’t keep me from fighting or supporting the fight in any way I could. I know that most men would do the same.

War is hell, no matter what war you’re talking about. But if WWII had gone on for ten years, there would have been soldiers and sailors who hadn’t seen home for that amount of time.

BTW Ed and Jim, unlike 7-11 or McDonalds, the Army (and the other services) generally won’t take High School drop outs. Our current military is probably the most well educated in history. Army personnel have a high school graduation rate that matches the general population (the rest typically have GEDs), and the rest of the services have a higher graduation rate than the general population (so our military personnel are better educated than our general population). Officers in all services are required to have a Bachelor’s degree. You should both STFD and STFU until you have some actual knowledge to impart, rather than just some ignorant prejudice to spout. Look here to start: http://usmilitary.about.com/cs/genjoin/a/asvabminimum.htm

Just a little bit of history repeating.

Propellerheads and Shirley Bassey: good song for Friday

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTUIHK7gHRE

There is not going to be a war with Iran for a host of logistic, fiscal and other reasons.

Those aren’t in the decision criteria for war. The guys who decide are always positively impacted by war.

That’s assuming the factory in China doesn’t have a big production run of IPads scheduled…

Debate on the morality of the draft aside, is this actually true? Didn’t the U.S. needed to resort to the draft in both the Civil War and WWII? Many of the people in those long lines simply wouldn’t be fit for service for various reasons.

In any event, the debate on the draft will soon be moot. A robotic drone military is not science fiction, it’s in the early stages of implimentation, and the final stages will come more quickly than most suspect. The government won’t need to draft anyone when it can simply build an army in a week.

On the other hand, weakening the military sounds good…

…Your Gummint is owed billions of dollars by young, (presumably) educated people, in the form of student loans for college/university. The Gummint can call in these markers; debtors can either pay off their loan IMMEDIATELY or get drafted…[emphasis mine]

On first glance I loved this idea. Clear out the OWS crowd and send them straight over. *gleefully rubs hands together*

Then I thunked, “Maybe that lot wouldn’t make such swell soldiers…” Our projected force military would be pretty weak.

See- now I’m torn. The get drafted scheme simultaneously weeds out the useless while likely exposing ourselves to greater risk. *scratches head, then crothch, then head again*

Then sanity prevails:

In a time of national emergency, when we really need “all hands on deck” you won’t need a draft, anyway. The lines at the recruting depots will be miles long. And whether they want me or not, i’ll be in one of them.

We’ll know that war is the just response when We the People “support the war” by queueing up at the recruiting centers. If I feel that war is justified, I’ll be in one of them as well.

Yeah, we’re tired.

While I’ve agreed with this in the past, it won’t make any difference either way in the near-future when most of the fighting’s done with drones & robots. Only American human deaths seem to create any pushback against our wars.

*Well, the costs and risks are mostly borne by the victims of the shooting and bombing, but that’s the case when a slave military is used, too.

I grew up reading HST, but I’m not lining up behind any draft. The poor and middle class will still fight (it may be worse because of how unaffordable college has become) and those with means will exploit loopholes.

Piss on the draft. Hell, I get irritated when hs kids have to do community service.

Would that all of those hired murderers had been satisfied with a life of malevolent mendacity.