Late Morning Links

Friday, October 7th, 2011
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63 Responses to “Late Morning Links”

  1. #1 |  paranoiastrksdp | 

    re: Brownies story

    You should link the original ABC story.

  2. #2 |  Yizmo Gizmo | 

    “Apparently, the photo of the AR-15 rifles peaked the sheriff’s interest, and another deputy went through all the contents on Nattoli’s phone. It was not until later that Sheriff Ryan obtained a search warrant for it.”

    Should be ‘piqued [not peaked] the sheriff’s interest,’ not to suggest that
    his interest should have been piqued, or that retroactive warrants are acceptable.
    “Based on the information from the Blackberry, the Santa Cruz County Sheriff’s Office SWAT team exercised a search warrant of the Natoli home ten days later.”
    Arrrgghh. A simple traffic stop lets Gestapo raid your house!
    No wonder people are reluctant to pull over these days.

  3. #3 |  paranoiastrksdp | 

    Waiting for some Anon to infect an entire LEO network by “poisoning” a cellphone with a virus / worm prior to extraction. Seems like a great way to trick them into doing the hard work for you. Probably wouldn’t be hard for someone to write up a logic bomb app that wipes the phone clean and uploads a virus when an unauthorized extraction is attempted.

  4. #4 |  CyniCAl | 

    •“When the officers showed up at the city jail to book Hill a short time later and turn in their evidence, the five pounds of marijuana they bragged about an hour earlier somehow had become a pound and a half.”

    And the $5 million worth of marijuana became only $1.5 million worth. Funny how that works.

  5. #5 |  CyniCAl | 

    •Obama administration cracks down on medical marijuana marijuana dispensaries. Again. At this point, his campaign promises on this issue amount to damnable lies.

    Really? Surprise? Maybe not, maybe it’s just fatigue.

    The only difference between a campaign promise and a lie is time.

  6. #6 |  Collin | 

    So if a cop pulls me over and decided to search my locked cellphone, can he compel me to unlock it or provide the passcode? I think this sort of question has come up when people enter the country, but how about local PD?

  7. #7 |  paranoiastrksdp | 

    Oh but CyniCAl, as per the comments they didn’t weigh the weed first. How could they know if it was 1 pound, 10 pounds, 80 pounds? Do you expect them to be human lab balances? (one of the more aneurism inducing arguments for the pigs on the article)

  8. #8 |  Dante | 

    Fullerton police:
    “”This is a very rare circumstance,” the acting chief said of the mistake.”

    See, there is the problem. When I say “The sun is not at all hot” everyone knows this is a lie, and calls me on it.

    When the police say “This was an isolated incident”, the press never, ever calls them on it. *

    Protect & Serve (Themselves!)

    * Except Radley. Thanks, Radley.

  9. #9 |  paranoiastrksdp | 

    Meanwhile Chief Sellers continues to soak up $19,000(!HOLY FUCKING SHIT?!) a month in medical leave.

  10. #10 |  CyniCAl | 

    •Another isolated incident. What the hell is going on Fullerton?

    For the record, this incident happened in 2010. But it only took one year and the removal of the former police chief via indefinite medical leave to secure the apology. So I guess we can count this as progress in Fullerton.

    And it is now official department policy in the wake of this wrong-door raid to properly identify the address and home to be raided!

    But still no apology from the chief for murdering Kelly Thomas or raping women in custody. I suppose we’ll just have to be patient.

  11. #11 |  Dante | 

    “Probably wouldn’t be hard for someone to write up a logic bomb app that wipes the phone clean and uploads a virus when an unauthorized extraction is attempted.”

    The testing process would drive you nuts, though. “Whooops! It works”.

  12. #12 |  Mattocracy | 

    If you have a passwrd on your phone, you’re arrested for obstruction. There is already somone in prison for not caughing up the password for their laptop.

    If you have a virus on your phone that uploads onto a government computer, you are now a terrorist. Also precedence for this.

  13. #13 |  Collin | 

    I think the issue in the laptop case is that she refused to enlock the computer as part of an ongoing investigation, hence the obstruction. I wonder about a case where no crime other than failing to completely stop at a stop sign is the precedent to search a phone.

  14. #14 |  CyniCAl | 

    You know, every once in a while an idea passes through my brain.

    Let me throw this out there, I’m sure someone else has thought of this if I have.

    Any modern Johnny Appleseeds out there? Following my drift? Just plant pot seeds in every single fucking bare patch of dirt in the entire United States? Let it grow in every front yard, empty lot, public lawn, freeway median, government building landscaping, etc…..

    What would happen then? How could this possibly be stopped?

  15. #15 |  omar | 

    Mattocracy, is that person in jail withholding a password to protect someone else? I would think the 5th amendment provides some protection for your password if you are the suspect?

    In any case, unless you actually know how to encrypt the entire contents of a hard drive, your refusals to give up the password will only cost the cops a few extra minutes. They can easily rip open your case and plug the harddrive into another machine.

  16. #16 |  GeneralGarbage | 

    Collin – I remember seeing some articles about police departments buying devices for that could crack PWs and extract data from mobile devices. They really don’t need you to cough up any credentials.

  17. #17 |  omar | 

    Any modern Johnny Appleseeds out there? Following my drift? Just plant pot seeds in every single fucking bare patch of dirt in the entire United States?

    I had the same discussion the other day. The local drunk near me implies that he does this in the woods for his cheap consumption. I wouldn’t mind him throwing seeds in the yards of local LEOs.

  18. #18 |  kant | 

    @mattocracy

    You’d think that the 5th amendment would protect your right to remain…but who needs to concern them selves with constitutional rights when we got vague catch-all pile on charges.

  19. #19 |  GSL | 

    The Fed attack on California medical marijuana is actually two-pronged: there’s the threat of civil forfeiture and prosecution, but they’re also using the IRS against the dispensaries.

  20. #20 |  CyniCAl | 

    •California appeals court upholds warrantless cell phone searches during a traffic stop.

    I can see all the California teenagers being prosecuted for sexting now.

    What a world.

  21. #21 |  DarkEFang | 

    “Any modern Johnny Appleseeds out there? Following my drift? Just plant pot seeds in every single fucking bare patch of dirt in the entire United States? Let it grow in every front yard, empty lot, public lawn, freeway median, government building landscaping, etc…..”

    This has already been done. It’s called “Kentucky.”

  22. #22 |  Juice | 

    Are there any promises made by Obama that he actually kept? I can’t think of a single one.

  23. #23 |  Roho | 

    “Before entering a home, the police must now verify the address “with certainty prior to entry,” according to a city staff report.”

    It sounds like everyone in the article is feeling safe and relieved that ‘something has been done’. Whereas, I imagine most of us here are more alarmed (though not surprised) that the previous policy amounted to:
    “Before busting into a home, and forcing the occupants to the ground at gunpoint, the police should have a fair-to-middling guess that the house being raided matches the address on the warrant.”

    So, rather than a meaningless new policy, how about sanctions? The reason the pizza guy takes the extra five seconds to check an address before a delivery is because he knows he faces personal consequences if he doesn’t. The police have no such fear. I know it’s all exciting to dress up and kick down doors, but seriously – is five seconds to check going to kill the mood that much? Hell, I spend about the same time error-checking the addresses on my outgoing emails, and those have a *much* lower chance of getting someone shot.

  24. #24 |  Collin | 

    “Are there any promises made by Obama that he actually kept? I can’t think of a single one.”

    I’m pretty sure he promiced to escalate the war in Afghanistan, so there’s that.

  25. #25 |  David | 

    Re: The password, the case is mired in dueling analogies. The fifth amendment protects you from testifying against yourself, but not from coughing up a key to a locked safe that authorities (a) know you possess and (b) have a warrant for. The question is if a password is speech or an access token.

  26. #26 |  Dave Krueger | 

    What the hell is going on Fullerton?

    They’re apparently getting caught. Hopefully it will spread to the rest of the country.

    Surely you don’t think they have a greater number of thuggish cops than any other city, did you?

  27. #27 |  Dave Krueger | 

    California appeals court upholds warrantless cell phone searches during a traffic stop.

    Well, you have to see it from their perspective. Being able to search someone’s cell phone is important. How else are you going to be able to find and delete any embarrassing or incriminating audio or video.

    You people need to start thinking more like the good guys and less like criminal-coddling civil liberties fanatics.

  28. #28 |  paranoiastrksdp | 

    What does that have to do with civil liberties, big government, etc?

  29. #29 |  omar | 

    @cryingSpaces

    What exactly do you want to discuss? If you want to talk about a topic, go ahead and bring up some points. It’s going to take more than pointing at a subject and tossing out an insult to get a conversation going.

  30. #30 |  paranoiastrksdp | 

    Or start a blog of your own and talk about the Kochs there.

  31. #31 |  GeneralGarbage | 

    @cryingSpaces- I’m as liberal as they come, and I don’t think it’s fair to expect Radley to go out of his way to beat up on “his team” (because, lets be honest, libertarians are , for all practical purposes, a subset of republicans) especially when the topic that you want to bring up has nothing to do with the general subjects of this blog.

  32. #32 |  MassHole | 

    CyniCAl:

    Many years ago, I played Johnny Appleseed in the library at my university. I don’t know how big they got, but it was pretty sweet seeing all those neon green upstarts among the potted trees.

  33. #33 |  Dante | 

    CynicAl;

    “Let me throw this out there, I’m sure someone else has thought of this if I have.

    Any modern Johnny Appleseeds out there? Following my drift? Just plant pot seeds in every single fucking bare patch of dirt in the entire United States? Let it grow in every front yard, empty lot, public lawn, freeway median, government building landscaping, etc…..”

    I’ve heard this idea before (it’s a good one).

    Google “Overgrow the Government”.

  34. #34 |  Jim | 

    @GeneralGarbage – sure, as long as we can all be honest and say that communists are, for all practical purposes, a subset of democrats.

  35. #35 |  EH | 

    What’s happening in Fullerton is what every police department tries to avoid by using the “isolated incident” reasoning whenever anything happens: when you put a flashlight on any department you start to see the cracks in the facade.

    Every police department has all of Fullerton’s problems, they’re just successful at evading attention. Fullerton’s waterfall of problems happens every single time a police department attracts curiosity. “Well what about this guy? And what’s up with this?” Pretty soon half the force is compromised and they’re halfway to a consent decree.

  36. #36 |  Mattocracy | 

    I saw this link here at the Ag, although I’m not sure if Radley linked it or if someone else did.

    http://www.pinellascountyfloridacriminallawyerblog.com/2011/07/computers-and-privacy-in-crimi.html

    Mises also mendtioned it.

    http://blog.mises.org/17704/doj-demands-laptop-password/

  37. #37 |  Jeff | 

    “‘Are there any promises made by Obama that he actually kept? I can’t think of a single one.’

    I’m pretty sure he promiced to escalate the war in Afghanistan, so there’s that.”

    He said if he had actionable intelligence on OBL being in Pakistan, he’d go after him. He also said one of his first acts would be to sign an executive order to close Gitmo, and I believe he did. (Sign an executive order, that is. Not actually close it.)

  38. #38 |  Boyd Durkin | 

    Waiting for some Anon to infect an entire LEO network by “poisoning” a cellphone with a virus / worm prior to extraction.

    Was thinking the same thing. I love Anon like Joanie loves Chachi.

    In general, we’re moving toward a state that grants itself the right to search everything you own (physical and digital) if you break a single law (criminal or not) and use anything gained against you.

    And if the state doesn’t give itself that right, they’ll do it anyway with no fear of consequences.

    Difficult to NOT feel helpless and strange why people are lining up and marching to bring about MORE government.

  39. #39 |  Boyd Durkin | 

    Nothing yet on the Koch brothers selling stuff to Iran illegally? This is becoming comical.

    Sure. Now you say it is “illegally” being sold because I outed you for a job-killing anti-American who hates union workers. You, sir, are the comical object!

    Keep it up. I have a troll farm here in NH and I feed them every day a rich porridge of truth and keen insight. In the winter I ride them like ponies and braid their hair!

  40. #40 |  Boyd Durkin | 

    because, lets be honest, libertarians are , for all practical purposes, a subset of republicans)

    This statement is so wrong that it would be hard to even figure out how to change it so that it would be correct.

    Let’s be honest.

  41. #41 |  Dave Krueger | 

    #40 Boyd Durkin

    because, lets be honest, libertarians are , for all practical purposes, a subset of republicans)

    This statement is so wrong that it would be hard to even figure out how to change it so that it would be correct.

    Let’s be honest.

    Thanks for saving me the trouble of saying this. I think the George Bush essentially ended forever the vague linkage that libertarians once had with the right.

  42. #42 |  Helmut O' Hooligan | 

    “…initially reported about police officers taking marijuana during an arrest and bragging about getting high on work computers last month. Now messages the officers exchanged have surfaced and HPD wants to know what happened to three and a half pounds of missing dope.”

    Who are these guys, “Super Troopers.” Put down the bong right meow sir. I said right meow!

  43. #43 |  Helmut O' Hooligan | 

    Cynical: “Any modern Johnny Appleseeds out there? Following my drift? Just plant pot seeds in every single fucking bare patch of dirt in the entire United States? Let it grow in every front yard, empty lot, public lawn, freeway median, government building landscaping, etc…..

    What would happen then? How could this possibly be stopped?”

    Cynical, that is a pretty damn good idea. They can’t possibly arrest everyone can they. And, of course, there are more of us than there are of them, so they wouldn’t fucking dare. Police usually go after the low hanging fruit anyway ( Roughly defined as the unlucky, the politically unpopular, the poor, those who are a shade darker than most police, and the plain idiots who virtually ask to be arrested), so if the herb is everywhere it would be really hard for them to narrow it down to the usual suspects.

    Good thinking, CyiniCAL.

  44. #44 |  Mattocracy | 

    I tried to post some links, but my comment is waiting for moderation.

    Anyway, Mises talked about the laptop password case. It can be googled. There are plenty of people who have been arguing 5th amendment, but the government doesn’t respect amendments 1-4, so why stop at 5?

  45. #45 |  Anonymous | 

    I know someone that was arrested with 10 pounds of marijuana (they weighed it themselves less than an hour before their arrest). When the story appeared in the paper, the department was quoted as saying it was 7 pounds. When he received the document that listed his charges, he was charged with 3 pounds.

  46. #46 |  omar | 

    but the government doesn’t respect amendments 1-4, so why stop at 5?

    Thankfully, they haven’t found a pressing need to violate the third.

    o/t a little…
    Although I am reading a book now on WW2. I was shocked to learn that quartering was the norm for American soldiers in Europe. American troops would roll into town, tell the owners “get lost for two days”. The soldiers would take whatever wine and food they could find and maybe do a little looting. Then after a couple days, the soldiers would roll off to the next town.

    Were it my home, this would greatly irritate me. I’m glad our military doesn’t seem to do this anymore.

  47. #47 |  CyniCAl | 

    Thank you to everyone who supports the “Johnny Ganjaseed” idea. Now, let’s get to work! And if anyone else can think of a better name, I’m all ears.

    #38 | Boyd Durkin — “… a state that grants itself the right …”

    Minor semantic quibble, but an important distinction nonetheless — States reserve powers, they do not grant themselves rights.

    Rights are what citizens ostensibly possess, either naturally or constitutionally. Of course, in practice, the rights that citizens possess are limited by the willingness of the State to permit the citizens these rights.

    Ultimately, the State is omnipotent as long as there is a willing citizen base to be taxed. There is no practical limit on the State except for some margin the State exceeds and its ability to tax or otherwise force the citizens to serve it is destroyed.

    It has been written that the State has no marketable commodity, that it produces nothing. This is false. The State’s one marketable product is its restraint from using violence, i.e. limiting its own power. This is a commodity that is in very high demand, as evidenced by the lobbying industry.

  48. #48 |  Mattocracy | 

    http://www.theonion.com/articles/third-amendment-rights-group-celebrates-another-su,2296/

  49. #49 |  GeneralGarbage | 

    @Jim – I think that’s completely fair. In fact that’s precisely the type of relationship I was trying to draw. In American politics we have team red and team blue, and no matter where you fall politically, you’re going to have more affinity with one team than the other. If they had to vote for one, I suspect most libertarians would choose team and most communists would choose team blue. I wasn’t trying to make any deeper point than that.

  50. #50 |  Brandon | 

    Hey Cryingspaces, you know Radley works for HuffPo now, right? They’ve been trying their best to make an issue out of a foreign company selling to a foreign country, but somehow it just hasn’t caught on. Imagine that!

  51. #51 |  Dave Krueger | 

    I am equally close to both team red and team blue as measured in bazillions of lightyears.

  52. #52 |  Kristen | 

    Along with Dave Krueger, I’m as close to being a Democrat or a Republican as 2 is closer to infinity than 1.

  53. #53 |  albatross | 

    Re the medical marijuana enforcement: I would threaten not to vote for Obama again, but it’s an empty threat–there is very little Obama could do to win my vote, after the way he has betrayed pretty much every reason I had for voting for him last time. I feel certain that the Republican will be marginally worse (Romney) or much worse (Perry) or bughouse nuts (Bachman). But I just don’t think I can bring myself to vote for someone who so completely and unrepentantly sold me out last time. Let him seek his votes among the supporters of torture, state secrets, endless war, and bailouts for the folks at the top.

  54. #54 |  Yizmo Gizmo | 

    #51
    Are you the Kristen from the Crunkleton speakeasy in August?
    I remember we discussed this website…

  55. #55 |  C. S. P. Schofield | 

    “When the officers showed up at the city jail to book Hill a short time later and turn in their evidence, the five pounds of marijuana they bragged about an hour earlier somehow had become a pound and a half.”

    ….and the entire Precinct went out en mass and ate a McDonalds franchise.

  56. #56 |  DK | 

    Democrats and Republicans are effectively statists – polar opposites to libertarians. They are liberal and conservative, respectively, in rhetoric only. Their policies and actions are statist. They always compromise to the statist position in order to maintain maximum control – just what 150+ years of two party control has given to the US.

  57. #57 |  C. S. P. Schofield | 

    DK,

    I would argue that for the last several decades Statist factions have, for the most part, controlled the direction of both parties. That doesn’t necessarily mean that both parties are entirely Statist. The Statists in the Republican Party are by and large the less conservative segment. The non-Statists in the Democrat Party are the ones that tend toward a Populist impulse. Over the course of the election cycles since Watergate the Republican Party has grown gradually more Conservative and (slightly) less Statist. While the process with the Democrats may have begun before 2006, in 2006 the most successful Democrat candidates were notably Populist. Then the leaders of the party, mostly Statists, grabbed the choice power seats in Congress. I suspect that we may be seeing a power struggle in the Democrats between Populists and Statists. To reject the two party system is all very emotionally satisfying, but it ignores certain subtleties. It will be far easier to make either (or both) of the two parties less Statist than it will be to bring a third party to sufficient prominence to have a real effect. For one thing, a third party will necessarily be opposed by the entirety of both parties.

    It took us several decades to get into this Statist mess. It won’t change overnight, and that’s a good thing. A government that is truly efficient, and can turn on a dime, is an authentic menace.

    I may be wrong, and you may well be right. I think that the two parties will, over time, move away from statism, with or without a third party. But a third party may be necessary, and is likely to be good anyway, if only to move the big two.

  58. #58 |  Bluegill | 

    For those interested, CaliforniaWatch.org has an excellent summary of the medical marijuana dispensary crack down.

    http://californiawatch.org/dailyreport/landlords-property-owners-are-new-targets-anti-pot-strategy-12967

    Take note of the comment at the end, even city council members and city managers who permitted the dispensaries might face prosecution from the feds. A lot of sick people are going to suffer because of this.

  59. #59 |  Bergman | 

    A smartphone is basically a small computer. The difference between a laptop and a blackberry, really, is that one fits in your palm. Both have wifi, both can have a built-in cellular “modem”, both have a keyboard, both have a screen, both run software and access the internet. You can do VoIP through either one.

    So why is there a different standard in place for palm-top computers and a different one for lap-tops? Or is it only a matter of time before police extend the “container” concept to everything in your car, on your person, and in your home, and claim they don’t need warrants? After all, your house is just a big box full of things too, right?

  60. #60 |  supercat | 

    //#23 | Roho | “Before entering a home, the police must now verify the address “with certainty prior to entry,” according to a city staff report.”

    What’s needed is an explicit law that says that a police officer or other government agent who uses a search warrant as a pretext to enter a property which is not listed on the warrant, or which the officer should know to be incorrectly listed on the warrant, is a burglar, robber, or worse, depending upon whether the property is occupied, and what the agent does with any occupants therein. Any officer who doesn’t want to be prosecuted (or, for that matter, shot) as a robber would be well-advised to inspect the warrant personally.

  61. #61 |  Puzzling | 

    On the cell phone search, screen locking passwords are ineffective against police search on the most popular cell phones. Google “Cellebrite UFED” for an example of devices used to facilitate these searches and quickly copy contents for later examination. These devices are used at border checkpoints and I think there’s every reason to expect a flourishing police state to adopt them as routine at TSA checkpoints as well.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgLlsHuYclk

    Cell phones are also not simple “containers” to the extent that modern phones show both local data and vastly more data information stored in cloud services, often all integrated together seamlessly to the user. These law enforcement searches are actually retrieving information stored in “containers” elsewhere.

  62. #62 |  Be Free | 

    Re: warrantless cell phone searches

    The People’s Republic of California continues to lead the way in civilian suppression. Good luck to all of you subjects out there. Maybe you can leave one day and be a citizen again.

  63. #63 |  Jerry Brown Vetoes Bill That Would Require a Warrant for Cell Phone Searches | The Agitator | 

    […] time I posted on this, commenter “Puzzling” made a very good point. Cell phones are also not simple “containers” to the extent that modern phones show both local […]

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