The War on Lemonade

Tuesday, August 2nd, 2011

Creating new little libertarians.

Police in Coralville shut down at least three lemonade stands run by children over RAGBRAI weekend. According to Dustin Krutsinger, police shut down his four-year-old daughters stand after just 30 minutes. Krutsinger said the officer told his wife, “this isn’t the first time I’ve had to do this.”

Krutsinger said his daughter was selling lemonade for 25 cents a glass, and had made less than $5. According to the city of Coralville, 4-year-old Abigail Krutsinger was in violation of a two day ordinance, which required all vendors to have permits when RAGBRAI rolled into town.

Josh Schamberger, President of the Iowa City/Coralville Convention and Visitors Bureau, said the ordinance was passed to protect riders from possible health risks . . .

“If the line is drawn to the point where a four-year-old eight blocks away can’t sell a couple glasses of lemonade for 25 cents, than I think the line has been drawn at the wrong spot,” Krutsinger said.

A mother of six also said her kids had their lemonade stand on 18th Avenue shut down after just 20 minutes.

Bobbie Nelson said she laughed when a police officer told her that a permit to sell lemonade would cost $400.

“The kids were devastated,” Nelson said. “They just cried and didn’t understand why.”

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75 Responses to “The War on Lemonade”

  1. #1 |  Marty | 

    if you ask the average Iowan, they’d say the lunatics are in New York or California…

  2. #2 |  David | 

    The local kids have been dodging this law for years, FREE LEMONADE, WITH DONATION. No law against giving stuff away for free

  3. #3 |  Graham Shevlin | 

    Two notes to idiot law enforcers:

    1. Just because you can do something does not mean that you should
    2. Wise people interpret rules. Fools slavishly follow them.

  4. #4 |  terrence | 

    If the cops can’t do anything about real crime – and they CANNOT – they may as well go after young children selling lemonade – HORROR of HORRORS.

  5. #5 |  Goober | 

    The problem is that people have become so indoctrinated to never question government that they act very surprised when things like this happen. They simply can’t believe that an unaccountable, self-sustaining bureaucracy (as 90% of government has become) could possibly act in such a way. What they do not understand is that to bureaucrats, occurences like this are not a bug – they are a feature! Then, the very next day, they write their congressman a letter telling him to vote “yes” for Obamacare, giving the same people who reduced their children to tears over a myrmidonic misinterpretation and mal-enforcement of a statute control over every aspect of their healthcare, without even stopping for an instant to question what they’ve just done.

    It never even occurs to them that this lemonade stand crackdown isn’t a shocking aberration in governmental malfeasance – this is standard by standard every day government operations. Government is physically incapable of doing anything better than anyone because they are unaccountable, authority weilding myrmidons who always have someone else within the bureaucracy to blame, and who see the expansion of that bureaucracy as the solution to every one of life’s problems.

    The government was incapable of running Social Security and Medicare, so what is the solution? Give them Obamacare and they’ll do better this time. Expand the bureaucracy. Give them the power to shut down lemonade stands that they couldn’t run profitably if their lives depended on it. It boggles my mind that Americans are so blind that they cannot see this. It is so simple and elementary to me, and yet every time i turn around, I hear “there aughta be a law” or “the government really needs to step in here”, despite the fact that every time they do step in, things get immeasurably worse. Every. Time. How can these people not see it?

  6. #6 |  Bronwyn | 

    My year and a half in Coralville was the most miserable time of my life. Gawd, what a shitty town.

    Apparently, that’s all I can contribute on the matter, because now all I can think of is what an emotional and financial drain that place was. Blech!

  7. #7 |  Goober | 

    @#3 Graham –

    Graham, the thing is that they know that it is idiocy to do these things, but it gives the petty tyrants their power trip of the day to do them. They know that what they are doing is wrong, but they get away with it by claiming that they “have no choice. My hands are tied, really. I’m just following orders.” In bureaucracy, the buck stops with no-one, specifically for this reason. That way, no one can be held accountable for the stupid or outright evil things that the bureaucracy does because there is always someone else to blame.

    “I really have no choice here. i’m sorry, but my hands are tied. i have to do this clinically retarded thing – I have no choice.” You’ll hear that all the way up the ladder in this day and age, to the President’s office. And even he will find someone to blame it on. George bush. The GOP Congress. It is how bureaucracy gets away with it time and time again, and every time an average american wades into this maelstrom, they act surprised and shocked as if they had no idea how dysfunctional government really is, and yet still have faith that they can do things efficiently, cheaply, and with compassion enough to clamor for Obamacare.

    Wait until the bureaucracy gets it’s hands on our healthcare. “I’m sorry, your wife just died because form 38-26-1908 wasn’t filled out in triplicate 6 months ago so we couldn’t give her the treatment she needed today. I’m sorry, i simply couldn’t give it to her. it was out of my hands. i had no choice. What’s that? Why didn’t we tell you that your paperwork was not in order? Well, there isn’t anyone here that actually does that job, and if you read subsection 32-784 you’ll find that the patient is solely responsible for filling out all 3,273 forms in triplicate prior to treatment being administered. YOu want to speak to someone higher up? Here’s his number – but his hands were tied, too. Really. I’m so sorry.”

    And if you don’t believe that there will be 3,273 forms to fill out, then I know for sure that you are not a contractor that has ever tried to bid a job even partially funded by stimulus money. There are at least that many.

  8. #8 |  Donald | 

    I’m tired of the excuse “It’s my job” Fuck off, no one asked you to be a servant of the parasite class. Lean to jack off people in alleys or sell coke, do something worthwhile with your life.

  9. #9 |  JS | 

    What the fuck is RAGBRAI?

  10. #10 |  Goober | 

    One final thought – if you don’t believe what I’m saying here, that petty tyrannical bureaucrats use the bureaucracy as cover for their little totalitarian actions, then let me ask you this:

    What would have been the consequences to this officer for not shutting this lemonade stand down?


    There would have been absolutely zero consequences. None whatsoever. Yet he claims that “he had no choice” in the matter. Why not? He was in no danger of losing his job over a lemonade stand. He was in no danger of even getting a reprimand or stern rebuke. The lemonade stand posed no threat to the public. He could have easily just ignored it and left the kids alone.

    But he didn’t. Facing zero consequences for inaction, he explained his actions by claiming that his hands were tied, and that he was given no choice. He used the bureaucracy as an excuse to do something that he didn’t need to do, so that he could express his authoritah. The bureaucracy covered for him, as it was designed to do, and he comes out looking like a victim rather than the perpetrator of a heartless tyrannical act – which is what he truly is.

    THAT, my friends, is the function of bureaucracy – the nameless fall guy that allows you to do horrible things in the name of compliance.

  11. #11 |  JS | 

    The funny thing is the same kids go to schools where they are taught that they live in the freest country in the world and that our government is working around the world to defend freedom.

  12. #12 |  John | 

    But that’s the experience the children need these days. I “the old” days children needed to learn the production and exchange was how society was organized and that they needed to be able to produce things other people wanted. Now we live in a society based on the government telling us what to do, when to do it and how it’s suppose to be done. Lemonade stands now need to have permits so the children need to learn how to file for them. (actually I think that might be the best response — take about 500 kids down to whatever office issues the permits and let them try to fill out the forms, get answers to their questions and the rest.)

  13. #13 |  Steamed McQueen | 

    @#9 JS


    Registers Annual Great Bike Race Across Iowa.

  14. #14 |  Charles | 

    So what would have happened if the kids refused? Would the officer forcibly shutdown the stand? That would make for some great You Tube fodder.

  15. #15 |  Stephen | 

    Here’s another little potential libertarian for you guys.

  16. #16 |  Just Plain Brian | 

    What the fuck is RAGBRAI?

    Weren’t those the creatures in the movie “Gremlins”?

  17. #17 |  Yizmo Gizmo | 

    The gov’t freaks out over money.
    I made a minor science discovery/invention when working at NIH (.gov)
    and tried to patent it through NIH. The gov’t lawyers said they liked the idea but they wouldn’t support the patent because it was a “research tool.”
    I said “Hey, PCR was a research tool and it made a billion $$.”
    They still said no. Their hands were tied. That was the rule!
    So I asked for the rights to the patent. They got pissed
    and cornered me and the hallway and yelled at me until I backed off.
    “We don’t want it, but you can’t have it, either, peon. Now go back to
    your desk and work for peanuts.”
    That’s the gov’t for you.

  18. #18 |  yonemoto | 

    Without regulation, corporations will run unchecked and will eat the society from within.

  19. #19 |  Stephen | 

    More on the baby woodpecker:

    Guess the publicity was too much. :)

  20. #20 |  yonemoto | 

    #5 unaccountable, self-sustaining bureaucracy

    Unaccountable, maybe, but self-sustaining?

    Goober, the debt store called and they’re running out of shrimp.

  21. #21 |  yonemoto | 

    A citation that had been previously drafted by the agent was cancelled on June 28.

    ‘Unfortunately, the citation was processed unintentionally despite our office’s request to cancel the ticket. The Service has contacted Ms. Capo to express our regret. The Service is also sending Ms. Capo a formal letter explain the clerical error and confirming that ticket should never have been issued.

    Who wants to take odds that a machine error or a second clerical error, or cancellation paperwork results in these people being harassed at least one more time by the officials?

  22. #22 |  Nicolas | 

    Government regulation: Lemonade Day done wrong


    August 20 is Lemonade Freedom Day

    The Lemonade Day organization is sponsored by many of the government agencies that enforce the idiotic laws and regulations, and by the sugar cartel.

  23. #23 |  Highway | 

    Yeah, “processed unintentionally” my ass.

    And if it was, does this point ANYTHING out to the people who think that government should run all pensions and health care, and business licensing and what have you? That they can’t *not* fine and harass a person who they apparently thought didn’t deserve it? That despite saying “hey wait, we shouldn’t take any further action, they finished up the paperwork, issued the citation, had the sheriff and the process server go out to serve the summons, and THEN mail it when she didn’t accept it? Yeah, they’ll be *super* prompt with your surgical payment, or that authorization for your new treatment, or your prescription.

    The cognitive dissonance is mind boggling, it really is.

  24. #24 |  Yizmo Gizmo | 

    Some good news, the Lemonade Vendors Review Board is
    investigating the matter and the little girls have
    been placed on “paid administrative leave.”
    However, the Board cannot be reached for further comment.

  25. #25 |  Jay | 

    How about a nationwide day where those in “charge” take a moment to remove their heads from their asses and actually THINK about what they are doing?

  26. #26 |  tim | 

    I road RAGBRAI last week. They should of arrested the “official vendors” for simply bad cooking. Iowa disappointed the world with their inability to make a decent pulled pork or hotdog. The food was the most disappointing part of the ride.

  27. #27 |  Gen John Stark Returns | 

    Every time I read about these brave men in blue shutting down a potentially dangerous lemonade stand I tell my daughter. Being the rebel that she so dearly is, her enthusiasm skyrockets and she’s outside the next day running her lemonade stand. Dissent & resistance is a beautiful thing – especially in children.

    Unfortunately, we’ve never been told to shut down. But if and when they do, I’ll be able to answer the question posed several times on these issues: what would happen if they refused? I’ll let you know if/when the opportunity presents itself.

  28. #28 |  DarkEFang | 

    #18 Yonemoto –

    “Without regulation, corporations will run unchecked and will eat the society from within.”

    Let’s not forget that this regulation was written in order to protect the official event vendors. Ridiculous behavior by government agencies – like shutting down little kids lemonade stands – is the end result, but we really should take a look at the impetus behind that behavior.

  29. #29 |  The Viceroy | 

    “He intends to walk to the sea and make salt”

    “What’s that going to deprive us of – a few rupees of salt tax?”

    “It’s not a serious attack on the revenue, sir , it’s primary significance is symbolic.”

    “Don’t patronize me, Charles”

    “No sir”
    “in this climate, nothing can survive without salt. Our absolute control is a control over the pulse of India”

  30. #30 |  Dan | 

    “The food was the most disappointing part of the ride.”

    Of course! After paying $400 for a vendor license, they couldn’t afford quality ingredients.

  31. #31 |  anonymous | 

    So how do you guys feel when the real world implementation of libertarian government, an H.O.A., does the same thing?
    Wednesday, March 30, 2011
    Kids’ Lemonade Stand Curtailed By Their Homeowners Association

  32. #32 |  Stephen | 

    Since when are HOAs libertarian?

  33. #33 |  Tim in Ohio | 

    I had been telling my parents about the War on Lemonade of late. After speaking to my mother today, she tells me of a near argument with my aunt over the topic. It seems my aunt agrees that these Rogue Stands be shut down immediately as, “You never know what they’re putting in the lemonade these days.” Fecking ridiculous.

  34. #34 |  BamBam | 

    @7 re: petty tyrants

  35. #35 |  Highway | 

    HOA’s certainly aren’t libertarian. They’re extremely small-minded and authoritarian, they’re just so local that they get away with their petty tyranny, aided primarily by the attaching the stupid rules to the actual property deed so that they can point to the fact that people ‘opt-in’ by buying property.

    Libertarians *prefer* local governance only because it’s easier to leave if it’s objectionable. It’s certainly not the case that libertarians condone the authoritarian bent of most HOA’s.

  36. #36 |  Police shut down street dealer in the never-ending ‘War on Lemonade’ « David McElroy | 

    […] The link for this story came via the Agitator. Read it every day. It’ll make you smarter. Seriously. […]

  37. #37 |  johnl | 

    Wow Goober rocks. Yes, “I am only doing my job” is a tell that they are not doing their job.

  38. #38 |  Joe | 

    Lemonade is bad. Acid and sugar? I can see your enamel melting like the bad witch taking a shower. The Nanny State knows best. Resistance is futile. Teach em while they are young and impressionable.

  39. #39 |  Leon Wolfeson | 

    I find it amazing that Americans see THEIR system, which is fouled up by right wingers throwing spanners into the works at every step, and apply it government in general, when people want, you know, it to WORK.

  40. #40 |  Highway | 

    I have no idea what you’re trying to say there, Leon, besides that something is ‘right wingers’ fault. Any chance you could clarify it?

  41. #41 |  Henry Cuttlefish | 

    Sounds like the cops are being d##ks here. Do they not have the capacity to exercise discretion? Are they automaton, blindly implementing the letter of the law?
    Are police not trained in the “de minimus” principle during enforcement 101? if a matter is so trifiling you do not have to enforce the law, even if it is technically being broken.

  42. #42 |  anonymous | 

    “So while my heart tells me that a rule forbidding children from outside play is ludicrous and anti-everything childhood should be, the rational, logical libertarian in me says that the HOA probably has that right. ”

    -Kevin Shutt
    “Florida HOA Wants to Ban Children From Outside Play”
    April 04, 2011

    Another example, including several in a comment still waiting moderation, of petty tyranny supported by libertarians, simply because it’s privatized.

    And not reported in mainstream libertarian media (such as this one), because as Glenn Reynolds often (rightfully) says about the liberal main-stream media burying stories, “It doesn’t fit the narrative.”
    Your search – “Persimmon Place” – did not match any documents.

    And doesn’t return any stories (but one comment to another story).

    These are examples of what a former H.O.A. lawyer calls

    “repressive libertarianism,” where certain people who call themselves libertarians invariably side with property owners who want to limit other people’s liberties through the use of contract law. Property rights (usually held by somebody with a whole lot of economic clout) trump every other liberty. The libertarian defense of HOAs is the perfect example. The developer writes covenants and leaves. Everybody who lives there has to obey them forever, even if they lose due process of law and expressive liberties. As private corporations take over more functions of government, this position could lead to gradual elimination of constitutional liberties.

    Every time I have discussed H.O.A.s with libertarians on internet forums (mostly at “Reason”, but some others), libertarians overwhelmingly support H.O.A.s, no matter how authoritarian they act; up to and including stealing people’s houses. Comments usually are along the line of, “But the idiot homeowner agreed to it” (because insulting the victim is funny and libertarian).

    But ironically, when I refer to H.O.A. governance by private corporate contract as a “libertarian form of government”, libertarians get defensive and go into denial. Discussing H.O.A.s with libertarians is like discussing evolution with Flat-Earth Creationists.

    Almost every libertarian knows who Susette Kelo is. Almost none know who Wenonah Blevins or Michael Clauer are. Why is that?

  43. #43 |  Robert Fernandes | 

    Hi, In response to the recent lemonade stand shut downs I have set up a national civil disobedience day called Lemonade Freedom day. It is on August 20th. The goal is to get good people to disobey bad laws. It is also to introduce children to civil disobedience. So far, the Facebook event page has over 1200 participants. There are many individuals who will be participating. There is even a group of activists in Washington DC who will be setting up lemonade stands on the Capital lawn. They will live stream the whole event in DC to the web.

    You can check out the website here:

    And the Facebook Event page is here:

    Please pass it on. Thanks!

  44. #44 |  Jim Collins | 

    He can’t clarify his statement, Highway. It would require a few little things that he doesn’t have, like facts.

  45. #45 |  Leon Wolfeson | 

    @40 – It’s 100% plain. If you can’t understand it, well…

    Ah, sod it, let’s try again – Fucking things up then complaining they’re fucked up? Well duh.

  46. #46 |  plutosdad | 

    “the ordinance was passed to protect riders from possible health risks ”

    lol yeah right, it had nothing to do with more established vendors not wanting out-of-towners to come in and set up stations.

  47. #47 |  Goober | 

    #5 unaccountable, self-sustaining bureaucracy

    Unaccountable, maybe, but self-sustaining?

    Goober, the debt store called and they’re running out of shrimp.

    Now that you mention it, “parasitic” is probably a better word to use. However, i didn’t mean to use self-sustaining in the sense that I think you are reading it. It was an improper use of the term. What I meant was possibly “self-replicating?” or maybe “self-expanding”. I’m not sure, but what I meant is that it is constantly growing itself. WHich is not what “self-sustaining’ means, so…

    bad choice of words.

  48. #48 |  Goober | 

    @#42 – HOAs are a grey area because you agree to live by their rules when you move into the area. If you don’t like it, don’t move in and sign the paper.

    As for the things HOAs do? I hate them and their little facsistic ways with a fiery passion – it’s why I would never move into an area with an HOA and if one moved in, I would never sign onto it or agree to live by its ditats.

    HOAs are nothing more that little governmental organizations within a small community. They have most of the powers of government, including policing to an extent and a monopoly on the punishment of the individuals within their purview. Sounds a lot like government to me. However, HOAs are the libertarian ideal government because you actually have to choose to live under its rules, and actually have to signa paper agreeing to do so. If you don’t want to live under the HOA rules, don’t buy there and don’t sign on… It is really that simple.

  49. #49 |  robertsgt40 | 

    Can’t get those kids started to early understanding “authority” and who weilds it. This is the new normal for kids. Kneel to power…or else. From the state comes everything. “Thank you sir, may I have another”?

  50. #50 |  Dave | 

    News Flash! Selling lemonade is not only against State law, if you tell anyone who purchases said lemonade that it has health effects or contains nutrients that encourage health you are in violation of F.D.A. regulations. Hopefully Obama’s new federal police force (as it was described by RAND CORP in their study) will be able to put this girls’ parents in prison, seize all lemonade products and fine them up to $100,000.00 per occurrence once they hire the new agents to enforce federal law nationwide. No joke they are seriously talking about doing this.

  51. #51 |  Edwin | 

    You people really need to learn how to protest. Everyone reading this that has kids, needs to go outside this weekend and set up a lemonade stand. If cops come by to shut it down, let them do it! Take it all down. Then, after the cops leave, set it back up again. When they return, repeat the process.

    And now, here’s the most important part of this: FILM IT!

    (Have several cameras running. You’ll be on your own private property so you can film anything you want!)

  52. #52 |  Highway | 

    Leon, I couldn’t understand it because your grammar in the comment is atrocious. There’s no actual verb in the sentence, just a lot of clauses set off by commas.

    But based on your clarification, just claiming that ‘right wingers’ are ‘fucking everything up’ doesn’t make it true. Government overreach is not benign, and it’s not guaranteed to do anything, much less ‘work’. And the effort of trying to slow down the one-way ratchet that is government power is important. You are merely begging the question by assuming that government is good.

  53. #53 |  sam | 

    Hey you can say that for the WHOLE USA

  54. #54 |  Leon Wolfeson | 

    So you can’t read collequal English, well…yea, sorry, still not my problem.

    Business, I will remind you, has an overriding profit object and with very few exceptions corporate legal persons are psychopathic. Moreover, there’s usually no reason for them to give a shit beyond the surface as to your needs.

    Goverment *can*, on the other hand, if it’s allowed to run smoothly. If it spends all it’s energy dealing with legislative efforts which clog it up with nonsense and prevent sensible, clean bills from being passed, and then has lots of people screwing thing up because they CAN, because it’s GUBERMENT OHNOES, well…yes.

    It’s a one-way ratchet, as well, precisely because of the grit – it’s damage to the system, and it seeks to go round it. America has accumulated laws and regulations far faster than the more socialist of the EU counties…this is not a coincidence!

    Simply because I claim something isn’t necessarily true, but the way the right wing politicians in America have behaved recently would have got them tossed out on their ear here, and for good reason.

  55. #55 |  j r | 

    Really takes a lot of guts to shut down a kid’s lemonade stand. How do these cops look at themselves in the mirror every morning knowing what low-down vermin they are. I have more respect for real criminals.

  56. #56 |  Highway | 

    Anonymous, if you sign the contract, you’re bound by it. Is it shady as all hell to have the stupid covenants permanently attached to the deed? Hell yes. But if you have as a principle that contracts are binding as libertarians do, then whether the contract is good for someone or bad for someone doesn’t make a difference. The contract is voluntarily entered into, as a condition of sale. *That* is the sole reason that libertarians defend them.

    The tyranny is *not* supported. The process is. And it’s the process that needs to be counted on to protect other freedoms. The reform isn’t that we need to ignore contracts, it’s that HOA covenants shouldn’t be a part of the property deeding.

  57. #57 |  Harry Johnson | 

    Ragbrai started as a fun good time. It has become a money machine for the administrators and a huge rolling drunk.

  58. #58 |  Vil | 

    Government is good at running things into the ground, accumulating debt, which it passes on its subjects, and robbing people of their self-sufficiency. It makes people less apt to give a hand up to their neighbors, as it leeches them dry, and the only “hand up” that it gives is in the form of a permanent crutch, which causes those who receive this brand of “help” to become unable to exist without it. Then, after mercilessly depriving people of their ability to stand on their own two feet, its mouth pieces and yes men quickly demonize as uncaring, those who would rather see people be helped to help themselves, rather than to become little more than a pet of their representative bureaucrats.
    It is government, on both the right and the left, who, by different means, screw up the system, with the end result, both from extremes of right and left, being a lack of personal freedom. America’s founders did not break the chains of tyranny with the intent of us being ruled by huge bureaucracies. They intended for a self-sufficient republic, governed by average people, who answer to those who they represent. They did not intend an authoritarian system, whereby every minutia of our lives is regulated. Neither did they intend free market Capitalism to be allowed to morph into the hydra that is Corporatism, where big government (which the founders were against) walks lock-step with big business (which the founders were against, and against which Thomas Jefferson warned). Until and unless people are gradually brought back to a system of self-sufficiency (this must be gradual – cutting people off lock, stock, and barrel would have horrible results), and our federal government is reigned back to the limits imposed upon it at the time of our inception, we will be the Land of the Free in name only. Everyone has heard that freedom comes at the cost of lives. What we conveniently forget is that it comes at the cost of vigilance and responsibility. We get the government that we deserve. When we can’t be bothered to recognize that our civic duty goes FAR beyond the vote, that those in office, rather we wanted them in, or they won by the votes of others, are our employees. We live in an age, at least in this country, where even the homeless can get online. There is really no excuse for people to take an hour out of their week, if they can’t be bothered to do it daily, to get informed. Check sources of news stories, because the media can’t be trusted. This isn’t paranoia. It’s common sense. Think for yourself. Read. Study. Look at all sources and come to your own conclusions. When it comes to these vermin in office, Democrap or Repugnican (or, when applicable, any other party), study their history. Are these people who do what they say and say what they mean, or is it politics as usual? Study their voting record. Also study as much as you can about what went in to those votes. Did a bill get voted down for the wrong reasons that you assume, or because there were horrible riders on it? Did they really vote against something bad for your area, because they were representing your needs, or did they cast this negative vote only after getting several of their associates in office to vote favourably, knowing that multiple favourable votes outweigh their vote against something that they wanted to pass, which their constituents did not want? That may sound like a lot of work, and it is. Considering the price that was paid for our freedoms, we should be willing to do this. For the love of the gods, if you believe that watching American Idle and Keeping Up With the Useless Kardashians is somehow more important, then please, whatever you do, don’t vote. Just go back to sleep, and let those who care about what is happening to our nation do the voting. I say this REGARDLESS of where you stand. Even if you’re a Libertarian, as am I, and you can’t be bothered, then don’t be bothered. We now live in a time where we must decide if liberty is still more important than security, and if it is, we have to stand up to these tyrants and remind them that it is we, not they, who is boss. If we’re no longer willing to do this, then our founders and all who sacrificed for what they implemented are irrelevant failures. If that is the case, then so be it. Should that prove to be true, then when you fall prey to something equally or more stupid than what we’re seeing today, don’t expect a sympathetic ear from those who still understand the value of individual liberty. This country is only as great as the *individuals* who make it so. When the individuals become stepping stones for the collectivists, then we become a conglomerate of failure. I will fight to My dying breath to prevent that from happening, because too many people literally died for that very same cause. Some may view this as insane. To those, I say that it is your right to feel that way, but please, take your sanctimony elsewhere. Don’t inflict it upon a people who were fortunate enough to inherit a system that, for all of its flaws, was created to be better than that.

  59. #59 |  sj | 

    Lemonade gestapo.
    Just what we need.

    What we really need is to start saying “NO!” to these neo-nazi bastards, and hold them directly and personally accountable for their misdeeds.


  60. #60 |  Vil | 

    (In the previous comment, I meant to say that there is no excuse NOT to take an hour to do those things.)

  61. #61 |  hp | 

    What happens if and when the children commit the (non-law) but nonetheless criminal act of “contempt of cop” by telling the officer to buzz off or some such?

    More than a few people have died and thousands have been maimed and injured after breaking this sacred non-law.

  62. #62 |  Friday Christman | 

    Clue phone!

    Ring Ring ding a ling…

    It has already begun ….

  63. #63 |  DarkEFang | 

    Holy shit, what a wall o’ words.

    Here’s a helpful writing hint: Paragraphs are your friend.

    You might be the greatest essayist ever to grace this blog, but nobody’s going to read an unformatted, ten thousand sentence mass of word diarrhea.

  64. #64 |  European American | 

    They should have tazered those damn kids along with their parents and thrown them all in the slammer! This is a Fascist system we live in and let’s keep it that way!

  65. #65 |  Leon Wolfeson | 

    I read it. Yea, anyway, seems to be a defence of what Carson would call vulgar libertarianism. Of course, he’s also accused Radley of it, which I don’t really agree with (which, ironically, is what originally started me reading this blog).

  66. #66 |  bys | 

    Lemonade is a gateway drug—first it’s lemonade stands and soon its Goldman Sachs….you gotta nip this pathway to capitalist crackstands in the bud!

  67. #67 |  gygyi | 

    IN the original days of the USA most people had their own business

    they are actively discouraging any notion of that, across the board

    ESPECIALLY to children

    go ahead and try to start a business in this country, I dare you

  68. #68 |  jb | 

    I rode RAGBRAI (Registers Annual Great Bike Ride Across Iowa) this year. Certainly one of the most common sights on the ride is the multitudes of “unofficial” venders selling food and beverage from their front lawns and from the back of trucks and cars all along the route. To select for special harassment a few youngsters selling lemonade is particularly idiotic. The heat index on the ride was in the 120~130’s. I wasn’t so much worried about the fluids I was drinking as much as I was worried about heat exhaustion. The lemonade sellers were providing a vital public service.

  69. #69 |  SOLUTION | 

    You vote for the mayor and the mayor commands the commissioner and indirectly hires all the police.

    Tell the mayor his job will be over if he retains officers concerned with lemonade stands or any trivial matter.

    In other words, if the “kiddy-cop” stays, then he goes. And mean it.

  70. #70 |  Goober | 

    @ #69 – the mayor is part of the same bureaucracy as everyone else. He’ll just have someone else to blame who is outside of his purview – and the worst part is that people will believe him and think of HIM as a victim, too.

    To Leon – you are committing the logical fallacy of “begging the question” in assuming in your premise that government is good, and will be good if it is just left to it’s own course. Show me one example in the history of mankind where a government unrestrained has resulted in it progressively getting better (the government, that is), and then possibly I may give your statements a bit more credence.

    THe only thing keeping government in bounds is the occasional “throwing of the spanner” as you so uneloquently and confusingly put it. Even with the spanners being thrown, we still get hundreds of pieces of new – and unnecessary – legislation every year, each carrying a myriad of unintended consequences and each of them, almost without fail, doing more harm than the good they were intended for can possibly offset, to the point to where the best legal minds of the time cannot tell you what is legal and what is illegal because our system has become so mucked up.

    Government is not the answer, leon. it never has been. Consider the sheer numbers of people that were slaughtered by government in just the 20th century alone – just include INNOCENT people, if you think the government should be able to kill criminals – and you’ll have a hard time convincing me that total, unrestricted anarchy would have resulted in more death. (Chinese communist govt – ~40 million. Soviets ~25 million. Nazis ~20 million. Cambodia ~6 million. Vietnam ~2million. US Wars ~2 Million. Misc slaughter and genocide ~10 million. Government induced famines ~??? millions and millions… Need I go on?)

  71. #71 |  Leon Wolfeson | 

    @70 – The assumption is yours. You are the one who is assuming that government is bad, automatically, in all cases. I’m the one’s who is willing to do the working and see who is best-positioned to provide a given service.

    Your “throwing the spanners” creates massive additional costs and empowers the people who want to make government gears bigger and bigger, so they don’t notice the grit – because the grit certainly gets news coverage, and less what else gets chewed up along the way.

    I’m strongly for limiting government to what it’s efficient and effective at providing – and in many sectors, that means providing funding to non-profits and charities to deliver services. In getting government out of things like marriage. But that message is obscured by your shriek of “gubberment bad”, and gets nowhere.

    And no, I oppose the death penalty in all cases. Life imprisonment, meaning life, in some cases – certainly.

    And you’re blaming “Government” for all conflicts. How cute. I’d suggest studying the history of the Kurdish people, for starters.

  72. #72 |  anonymous | 

    Highway @ #35: “HOA’s certainly aren’t libertarian.”

    Hihghway @ #56: “The tyranny is *not* supported.”

    “Joe Woodard’s wife and son were killed in the July 2007 crash, and he’s been building a new home on the same lot for the past year.

    “I felt I was helping the community move forward with their lives because every time you see an empty lot or a burned house, you continue to live through all the memories of what happened,” Woodard said.

    But the House of Management Enterprises, which represents the homeowners’ association, said the home, which is a few weeks from being completed, does not fit their standards and are demanding that the house be torn down.

    In a letter sent to Woodard from the attorney of the homeowners’ association, three specific items were mentioned. The shingles on the home and the elevation are not consistent with the community, and the home extends a few feet longer in the back than association standards allow, the letter stated.

    The libertarian response? “As heartless as it appears Mr. Woodward’s HOA is being, I have to side with it over Woodward, ceteris paribus.”

    A libertarian saying that libertarians don’t support privatized tyranny is like a cop saying that cops don’t support the bad cops.

  73. #73 |  anonymous | 

    PS — If government heavy-handedness is “Creating new little libertarians,” as the original post says, then heavy-handedness by private corporations is a sure way to turn people off to libertarianism.

    Telling people that they consented to be abused is only going to work for so long, before they start looking for their rights elsewhere.

  74. #74 |  More linky, less thinky « Blunt Object | 

    […] Perhaps we should make people — or at least adults — pass a comprehensive public choice examination before we let them vote out in public unsupervised.  Of course, I’m one of those snooty Rothbardian anarchocapitalist types who thinks that objective morality derives from the Principle of Nonaggression, so I’ll have to emigrate to a micronation or seastead* where everyone agrees to study public choice or stay at home, and leave the rest of you sorry bastards to wonder why Johnny, who can’t add, is in prison (and on the list of registered sex offenders) for running a lemonade stand. […]

  75. #75 |  Protection Against “Black Market” Lemonade « The Blog For Truth, Justice, & The Josh Way | 

    […] One example is from my home state.  During Iowa’s famous RAGBRAI bicycle ride across the state, the police in Coralville shut these youngsters down. […]