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Morning Links
Thursday, June 16th, 2011- So remember the off-duty cop who got off after killing a guy who “ding-dong ditched” his house? Turns out, regular citizens don’t get the same leniency. Not that they should. But still.
- Town mandates that all citizens provide town, law enforcement officials with keys to commercial properties, including apartment buildings.
- Obama administration argues that firing missiles at a foreign country does not meet the definition of “hostilities.”
- Lee Fang at ThinkProgress embarrasses himself. Again.
- Clarence Thomas’s hostility to criminal defendants.
- Federal judge smacks down the copyright trolls at Righthaven.
- LEAP protests on the 40th anniversary of the war on drugs.
- Obama vs. the rule of law.
Having lock boxes with keys is very common and is required in many fire districts. We’ve got one on our office ( I installed it ) and the fire dept has one common key that will open all of them. They’re also called “Knox boxes”. A lot of electric gates have one on them as well, so that the FD can open the gate with their key and don’t have to ram the gate down to get in.
I mean, really if the cops want in we know what they will do, so does having a key in a lock box that the FD can access make that much difference? If they want to be sneaky about it they’ll just pick the damn lock.
So a delusional blogger at a biased and partisan website (powerline) has a problem with a delusional blogger at another biased and partisan website (thinkprogress)? This is somewhat news again how?
Good answer Robert #1, you have done a great job at submitting to the government.
Excellent choice on the link source for that story on RightHaven, Radley. :D
FYI:
http://scotthaefner.com/beyond/mothball-fleet-ghost-ships/
Robert,
If the lock boxes are such a good idea and they save property from damage then make them voluntary. Let people who object deal with fixing their door or gate if it has to be bashed in. If it is such a good idea the city wouldn’t have to use the power of the state and the threat of police force to get people to do it.
@ #6 “Let people who object deal with fixing their door or gate if it has to be bashed in.”
They also gonna pay for fixing the fire engine that bashes in the gate? I doubt it.
Lee Fang makes me look like Edward R. Murrow.
Why,if you make money off your property you have fewer rights then others?Can you see a town telling home owners they need to give the government a key to there house?Why does someone who has a office,bar,retail shop,ect not have the same rights?I see a very big loop hole for entry to look for drugs and ‘illegal cash”,or guns.
Lock boxes.
No!
The very argument for them is absurd. If a fire alarm is going off, AND THERE IS AN ACTUAL FIRE, than the damage to get in is justified and trivial.
If your facility is so secure that even the Fire Department can’t break into it, then it’s your responsibility to have responsible people on call. And of course, your responsibility extends only to liability due to fire, etc.
If you feel the need to build such a secure facility, then it would be stupid to put a box with all the keys right outside. Really, how secure is that box? Can it just be ‘bumped’ open? How easy is it to get the keys? You might as well just use el-cheapo locks if you’re just going to leave a key out front.
All these lock boxes do is promote snooping. If there’s a false alarm, for example, the FD will be tempted to let themselves in “Just in case” even though it’s obvious there is no fire. And of course, the police will want keys too! You never know when they’ll get a “Gut feeling” that they need to go looking around.
Without a warrant or clear and obvious exigent circumstance (The building is on fire!) any unauthorized access is a crime.
#7 | Robert | June 16th, 2011 at 9:14 am
That’s a bad argument. Exterior gates like that are easily breached if one is willing to leave evidence behind. Obviously, you’re not going to put a Fort Knox style gate on a gated residential community specifically for the reason that the Fire Department may need to break in to save someone.
If you want to save the Fire Department the trouble of breaking out the Bolt Cutters (Or whatever is needed to defeat the gate) than give them a key on a voluntary basis.
Youse guys just need to give me the keys to your houses and I’ll take care of everything. Trust me!
So bombing a country isn’t an act of war, according to Obama. We really shouldn’t have gotten so worked up about Pearl Harbor!
And 9/11 wasn’t an act of war either apparently. It was a police action by Islamic militants. What a load of horse shit.
Maybe I should specify, the logic of the Obama Admin is a load of horse shit, not Gary.
“Can you see a town telling home owners they need to give the government a key to there house?”
Yes, I can. And the only reason they haven’t seriously proposed it yet is because some people might still complain.
This is the same sort of government that says “We need to have a backdoor into every server” and “We need to be able to index and search every single email” and “We need to check the ID of every person we decide to stop on the street.” You know, things that various governments have asked for or started doing.
Good point Mattocracy. As history is written by the winners, it seems everything is defined by the one with the biggest gun. I suppose Mo Atta held in his hand written authorization to crash up to 4 planes prior to needing approval from a governing body to authorize war. So no problem, right America? It is just ridiculous.
“The US bombed my house and killed my family!”
“Relax. It is just a kinetic military action.”
Obama’s attitude about Libya being a war is directly related to the government’s policy on drones. If no actual troops are committing the violence, you know?
“In addition to a key, each lockbox must contain an itemized list of all electronics, jewelry and the combination to any safes located on the premises.”
I think I will godwin the thread here.
By the administration’s argument, the events of the afternoon of April 26, 1937 in Guernica were completely legal.
(Also, the events of the morning of December 7, 1941 at Pearl Harbor as GaryM at 9:55 am pointed out.)
If Cuba, North Korea, or any other country decided to launch a few ICBM’s at the United States, Obama and our government would rightly consider that an overt act of war. Hey, maybe they should drop a bomb on the White House and use Obama’s reasoning against him. “It’s not an act of WAR. We don’t have any of our troops on American soil or in harm’s way, and it’s a limited engagement, so what’s the big deal?”
On the lockbox issue, I am aware of at least one criminal who was a master locksmith.
Absolutely no door was secure from him and he had a master key that worked for any lockbox.
For that guy (and I doubt his lock skills are unique in the B&E trade), the ordinance in question would be an open invitation.
Why should they do the US any favors?
:)
The LEAP article is great and all. But every single named person who is quoted in the story is a “former” something or other. The LEAP website says that it is “current and former members of the law enforcement and criminal justice communities”. And yet, none of the current ones are willing to speak on the record about anything?
And yet, none of the current ones are willing to speak on the record about anything?
How do you know that they weren’t “current” when they started speaking, and are now “former” because of it? ;)
Pardon my ad hominem but Clarence Thomas is a prick with ears. He doesn’t deserve to have the word “Justice”attached to his name as he knows almost nothing about it. Sure he gets it right every once in a while, but I don’t see how the man can sleep at night. The horror. The horror.
My daughter had her home for sale, a lockbox was put on her door so realtors could show the house when she was away. She was robbed blind by one of the realtors, along with a number of other homeowners. Most of her stolen property was never returned, tho they did eventually find some of it. So I no longer think lockboxes are useful or safe, no matter who holds the master key.
Delegata potestas non potest delegari. This legal maxim applies to our government AND every other legitimate government. It is and always has been unconstitutional for Congress to allow the president ANY leeway in military action because Congress is the sole declarer of war (battles, etc regardless to what level the action rises). Congress cannot transfer any authority. Transfers are a breach of trust.
AND it always has been unconstitutional to spend any monies that are not for “the common Defence” of the United States of America which is a geographical area.
Man, those “Obama doing terrible, unlawful stuff a lot” articles seem to just write themselves these days. This shit isn’t even close. Does he just not, or did he never care? Why isn’t he trying like *at all*? If you really think about it, it’s just surreal and ironic all rolled into a weird thing that makes your brain and heart hurt.
@ #22 “On the lockbox issue, I am aware of at least one criminal who was a master locksmith.
Absolutely no door was secure from him and he had a master key that worked for any lockbox.
For that guy (and I doubt his lock skills are unique in the B&E trade), the ordinance in question would be an open invitation.”
If he’s that good, why add an extra step to the procedure? Just pick the lock on the damn door in the first place. The lockbox makes no difference so that’s no arguement at all.
On the lockbox issue, I am aware of at least one criminal who was a master locksmith.
(BTW: I am not a burglar. Between my hobbies and the nature of my businesses over the years I have learned how things work, how they break, and how to fix them. Also, how to keep others out of my stuff, which means thinking like they do.)
Honestly, a Knoxbox or any keybox is pathetically easy to break into. 99% of installs are screwed to the surface of concrete or brick.
Knoxbox? Pretty much any decent prybar over 3 feet with a small fulcrum will allow you to pry the box off the wall in 20 seconds or less. A 60″ flat-blade pike will just scrape it off, no levering required. Now that it’s off the wall, there’s 20 ways to pop that box in under a minute. No fancy stuff – a $99 porta power rig from Harbor Freight, or make your own hydraulic scissors with a $10 bottle jack and a coupla pieces of steel, or a cheap hydraulic punch driver, or just a wooded jig to hold the Knoxbox with a punch over the lock then 10# sledge it, or pop the lock with a Remington Power Hammer/Ramset tool, or….
Shurlocks (or whatever the RE people use in your market) are so easy to get a code or key for, it wouldn’t be worth the effort to break them open. Agents are soooo sloppy with their codes, it’d take maybe 2 or 3 walk throughs of vacant properties to see the codes.
That being said, with the tools available to even the most impoverished rural VFD, they’re inside your house in under a minute. 2 minutes if you have a heavy set of bars. ‘Bout the same time as locating the box, opening it with a key, then opening your door.
The time and safety arguments are the preposterously syrupy family pictures on your insurance agent’s desk. They exist only to make it difficult for one to think clearly about critical issues, leaving emotions in charge.
And remember how cops can break into your house and kill you while claiming…well they don’t really need to claim anything? Remember how Colorado passed a “Make My Day” law? Let’s see how it actually works.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/2011/06/16/2011-06-16_woman_stabs_burglars_killing_1_now_faces_murder_charges_thugs_hit_home_where_she.html
This woman needed to keep her mouth shut and lawyer up.
“”The law allows deadly force in your home or business, if there is a reasonable belief that the person breaking into the house has already committed a crime or if a crime will be committed,” University of Colorado Law professor Ann England told the Greely Tribune.”
Now, I’m no big-city lawyer, but it seems to me that if someone breaks into your house, then a crime has already been committed. Is breaking & entering not illegal in Colorado?
@32 Boyd
Yes, she should have. Especially since the autopsy shows the guy had been shot
http://www.timescall.com/news/longmont-local-news/ci_18288537
RE: “Woman stabs burglars, killing 1, now faces murder charges; thugs hit home where she grew medical pot”
Thanks for the link, Boyd. Hmm, wonder if she is being subjected to more scrutiny since she grows…GASP…medical marijuana. May be legal, but some in the LE community, brainwashed by ridiculous drug warrior indoctrination, probably still think she is running a criminal syndicate. Oh yeah, and she doesn’t work for the government. Based on the available information, this sounds like a valid case of self-defense to me, even if she isn’t the POlice.
“Dust was shot, but if he was shot in the back it could reveal that he was fleeing at the time.”
Ah. Well, my remarks in #35 may have been a bit hasty. We’ll have to see what else comes out then.
#31
To be fair, any decent prybar over 3′ will open just about any door, regardless of what’s locking it.
The best way to deter a burglar is to make your house seem less appealing than your neighbors house.
It could still be a case of self-defense. The ‘shot in the back’ was pure speculation on the part of the person being quoted, the “sheriff’s spokewoman”. It’s also interesting that presumably they have all this information about what happened in the burglary, but the information doesn’t seem to have included anything about a gun. I’m guessing they got the information from the wounded burglar.
This also brings up one of those questions like “if she had a gun, why did she attack them with a knife”, or “did she come back later and finish off the wounded guy who couldn’t get off the property.”
Whatever happened, she would have been best served by keeping quiet and lawyering up as Boyd said earlier
I missed the ding-dong ditch story until now. Normally I’d take some small comfort in the fact that it didn’t happen in the Upper 47, but in this case it’s harder because the homicide was committed by a lone unhinged deputy. It isn’t Florida-grade systemic depravity, and a lot of agencies all over the country pay lip service at best to keeping loose cannons off their forces.
Anyone who hunts down a harmless dipshit for drunk-ringing his doorbell is a loose cannon who is likely to assault or murder people. That’s why competent recruiters devote part of their background investigation process to determining whether candidates have short fuses. You don’t want people who take violent offense at minor provocations enforcing the law.
Actually, if you’re Daryl Gates, maybe you do. Or if you’re running the constabulary in some atavistic, politically incestuous backwoods county. Or if you’re just a badgelicker who never believed in prudence and decency in the first place. These are all reasons to maintain a vigorous, external legislative and judicial structure. The smackdown in these cases rarely comes from within.
And since I’m on the subject of external oversight, now might be a good time for the Feds to take a look around and determine whether Florida should be put into receivership. I’m not ruling that out for other states; it’s just that Florida is a state where economies of scale could be realized by running all officials through the same dragnet and throwing the non-cretins back into the water. Pie-in-the-sky, maybe, but I’m throwing it out there anyway.
To be fair, any decent prybar over 3′ will open just about any door, regardless of what’s locking it.
For breaking into the average door, you’re completely correct. If you don’t care about being seen, or they are doing a smash and grab, pointless waste of time getting a key.
Just saying that in some burglary scenarios, a key is helpful – allows bad guy to sneak in pre-open when manager is present to unlock safe and alarm is turned off. Works great for high-volume restaurants, banks, jewelry stores.
It’s quick and easy to pull a Knoxbox and then just stick another one up with no one the wiser. Gives time to take the box offsite and remove the key.
Andrew,
My local county police force is actually pretty good about recruiting and keeping most of the whack-jobs out, but once they’re in, well, they’re in. I used to be rather well connected to the cops in a former business, so I heard many stories about the ‘problem children’. There was one in particular who had the ‘thousand yard stare’ in combo-platter with a bit of Jack Nicholson in The Shining. Did some really questionable shit to people but the wall covered for him. Abused estranged wife, even got his guns confiscated by another department, but he stayed on the job.
Co-workers knew he was a ticking time-bomb, but nobody would do a damn thing save give him a wide berth.
He finally “resigned” after he shot his cop gf in the face with a .40 in her car outside their apartment. To be fair, they both were hammer-drunk (she was .034) and high- a ball of blow, hundred-piece of crack, and an ounce of weed in his car. In his “Officer of the Month” gear bag…
There’s a great gif featuring Bugs Bunny and Florida that is almost always appropo. Sadly, I can’t find it at the moment…
What’s up with Judge Napolitano brown-nosing Sarah Palin? I thought that was Sean Hannity’s job?
@41 – “It’s quick and easy to pull a Knoxbox”
And that’s why you wire it direct to the alarm system, sure.
@41 – “It’s quick and easy to pull a Knoxbox”
And that’s why you wire it direct to the alarm system, sure.
Congrats! You have just passed criminal thinking 101! You are far ahead of EVERY Knoxbox install I have ever seen, bar none. And I’ve seen many thousands…
Landlords (as they are mostly removed from the tenant’s interest) have them installed by a sub (usually recommended by the FD) and there is never any thought of tying them into an alarm – especially as the general thought process is ” I didn’t give them my alarm code, so the alarm will trigger and I will be notified!”.
Alarm companies come and go with tenants. Get the flow of where this goes?
Fucking PIGS.
Cops go into a house, guy tells them they need a warrant. Cop pulls out a gun, yells “I don’t need a warrant, motherfucker!”, and shoots the guy.
The cop’s OWN PARTNER has given the story on this, admits that the victim was unarmed and that the cop was being a pig.
Cop union rep? “Innocent until proven guilty! Due process! How dare you discuss these allegations, it prejudices the case against him!”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qx9Mt4krDtc&feature=share
I have no more fucking use for police any more.
Can I be the first one to predict that the partner is the one who will end up forced into leaving the police department?
I have no more fucking use for police any more.
JimBob,
I’ve really never had use for them either. According to the Supremes they are not required to prevent crime. As they cannot prevent it, they are only required to investigate and solve.
In the times that myself, my businesses, or my friends have had criminal action taken against them the police have never once apprehended the guilty party on their own. EVER.
As cogent citizens we have handed the popo the perp(s) on a platter and have gotten results, but the cops had zero to do with it, save for ‘grabbing the glory’.
JimBob, the YouTube upload is recent (which means that more people are still seeing the story), but this incident was last fall:
http://www.theagitator.com/2010/10/13/morning-links-386/
“Thomas often separates himself from fellow justices with his lack of consideration for a defendant’s plight.”
That’s terrible. He should be making decisions on individual prisoners, not based on the law. And if a law is bad and congress will not change it, clearly rewriting the law is the courts job.
“So a delusional blogger at a biased and partisan website (powerline) has a problem with a delusional blogger at another biased and partisan website (thinkprogress)? This is somewhat news again how?”
The second blogger just makes shit up, the first blogger calls him on it. Obviously, at that point they are the same and the making up of shit is to be disregarded.
@Andrew Roth: I have discussed the Florida issue with Michael Z. Williamson, and we have decided, between us, that when he is elected dictator (having been born in Wales, he is not eligible to be President) that all FL voters and all FL LEOs will be fed through wood chippers. Mike has given me a special exemption and assured me that I will not be chipped, after I told him about my skills in running a chipper.
Off topic alert.
Larry Flynt offers Congressman Weiner a job.
Over on Facebook, Melissa Petro, the New York school teacher who was fired for merely writing about her past experiences selling sex through Craigslist to put herself through college, asks “What about me?”
Sorry, Melissa. Weiner lied. You told the truth. Whatever society is looking for, it sure as hell isn’t honesty. Weiner wins. You lose.
Highway–
Thanks for pointing that out, I missed it. Sorry ’bout it.
Still, watching the police union rep suddenly start spouting off like this cop is somehow being railroaded because the news reporter thinks that the evidence against him is pretty nasty– my blood boils. I’m seeing some updates that indicate that the fucking union actually held FUNDRAISERS for this shitbag pig. Plus, they were able to get court injunctions to keep the Phoenix police from firing the guy until late March. Oh, and they’re doing everything they can to discredit the cop’s partner, who had the fucking audacity to call murder when he saw it.
There’s also a story that this fucking cocksucker was involved in planting drugs on a homeless woman in 2005– caught on fucking VIDEO, no less– but didn’t suffer any punishment for it. Because, hey, everybody deserves a second chance to fuck over the citizenry, right?
How does Radley do this job? I’d rage to the point of aneurysm if I had to follow this shit every day. Dude must have incredible zen powers or something.
JimBob,
Radley does a nice job of filtering and picking the interesting abuse that us Agitatortots are likely to kick around.
If you wanna have your head go all ‘Scanners’, I would suggest a trip over to http://www.injusticeeverywhere.com.
He is prolly running the highest quality study of vetted and published police misconduct, bar none. Even though his methodology seems pretty sound, he is funded by no institution or foundation. I’ve leaned on foundation board member buddies to give him a grant. So far everyone is concerned about misconduct, but too afraid to be seen criticizing the cops.
Ugh.