TheAgitator.com
Tasers Are Perfectly Safe as Long as They Aren’t Used on the People Most Likely To Be Tasered
Friday, June 3rd, 2011An NIJ report on Tasers gives us the ol’ “Nothing to see, here”. Nut graph:
“There is no conclusive medical evidence in the current body of research literature that indicates a high risk of serious injury or death to humans from the direct or indirect cardiovascular or metabolic effects of short-term CED exposure in healthy, normal, nonstressed, nonintoxicated persons,” the report concludes.
And we all know that Tasers are never, ever used on people who are unhealthy, or who are intoxicated, or who are under some sort of duress. So the debate is settled!
If there’s one thing that doesn’t stress me out, it’s having a few thousand volts across my chest. Thanks, police!
ISTM that tasers and SWAT teams have a bit of commonality. It’s probably good to have both available for appropriate situations, but once available, both tend to be overused. It’s surely a win for the police to taser someone instead of shooting him. But since tasers rarely kill anyone, the police are much more willing to use them, even in situations where they’d never consider using a gun.
Some cop spokesman was on the air, I think Alan Colmes’ show,
casually explaining that a taser only transmitted about as much current
as a Christmas tree light.
Okay, let me apply this Christmas tree light to your gonads, oinker.
Ho, ho, ho.
To be fair, they don’t claim “perfectly safe”.
And it is probably true that the taser is safer overall than the alternative when used only in those situations that specifically call for a taser (as a replacement to cracking skulls with a nightstick or shooting someone).
They also include this nugget:
There’s a lot in this paragraph… we’ve all seen numerous videos with repeated shocks lasting much more than 15 seconds cumulative. There’s also the fact that the situations requiring the use of non-lethal methods of subduing a suspect are much more likely to involve conditions in which they report that extended CED exposure may not be effective.
And then there are reports where more than one taser is used on one individual at the same time. So there should be precise regulations in place specifying that only one taser should be deployed against a citizen at a time, with cumulative exposure not lasting more than so many seconds.
Has anyone suggested that the people who are so goddamned fond of tasers be required to submit to a thorough tasering?
What The Fuck?
You can read that to mean “Oh! Even in the cases where the person DIED, their death was not caused or contributed to by the Taser”
Which of course is bullshit.
Or, you can read that to mean “Only .25% of these people died! That’s not the majority of cases, so it’s OK.
Which of course is bullshit. Not even handguns result in death in “The large majority of cases.”
#6 | C. S. P. Schofield |
Probably varies from department to department, but I think many do require people using tasers and tear gas to be gassed/tasered themselves. All of the cops I know have been tased and gassed. I think they were universal in the opinion that they’d rather be tased than get pepper spray (recovery time).
I’d say a good feature would be a chip that records all use of the taser for download each shift. That way we’ll know if they grabbed LaVonne out behind the 7-11 and gave him a few shots to the nards until he spilled the info they wanted.
We’d also know if the neutral voice of their police report that claims they “administered CED for 5 seconds. Subject was handcuffed and placed in custody.” reflects reality, or if they in fact used the taser 23 times in 5 minutes because they were pissed that he got mouthy and then resisted being handcuffed.
Bob:
I seem to recall reading/hearing somewhere that a lot of taser-related injuries involve falls–you taser the guy climbing a fence, he falls off and breaks his arm hitting the concrete below.
#7 | Bob |
Just to be clear, .25 % = .0025
That means you’d expect 25 people to die if you use a taser in 10,000 events. Care to take a guess how many days of US law enforcement it takes to get to 10k taserings? That sounds like a crazy-huge number.
Of course that still avoids the real question: Is the taser safer than the alternative? Is it the best alternative available? And mostly – is it being used in a responsible manner in the majority of circumstances?
My bet on the last question is no. I’d bet that a significant percentage of taser deployments come under the heading of “contempt of cop” (broadly defined). Most of those will be in a grey area where I’ll argue that a good cop could use his experience to gain compliance without violence, where the less talented and/or experienced cop just pulls out the taser.
Tasers offer a bit of a dilemma. They’re certainly less dangerous than shooting someone, or the lead sap that used to reside in every cop’s right rear pocket, or by wrestling someone into submission.
OTOH, the fact that it is effective, painful, and relatively safe makes it a terrific tool to terrorize Citizens with and to play their nasty little sadistic games.
They wouldn’t be so bad if one could trust cops, just a little.
Holy shit, 1 in 400 people tazered dies? I never would have imagined the figure would be so high.
For reference, the chances of dying if you skydive is about 1 in 100,000
Yet people will tell you with a straight face that America is not a police state. When using logic like if it saves one American life torture is OK,then how is one death in 400 taserings acceptable. One must conclude that the majority of people being tasered in America are Americans. I guess the sanctity of the state makes those American deaths unimportant ,unless it you who are doing the dying. Just like torture, taser proponents should try it out first hand before running their mouths. It is highly probable that they will find extremely inconvenient.
@ Zargon,
Damn, that puts things in perspective.
I don’t have an issue with the use of tasers per se. They’re great as a less lethal alternative to bullets. The main problem is that the threshhold for using them has dropped because they are less lethal.
If tasers were only used in situations where a cop would actually consider using a real gun, they provide a solid alternative that’s less likely to kill or severely injure.
Instead, because they’re less lethal, cops are more likely to use them in contempt-of-cop or other situations where the gun would never be considered acceptable.
The only solution is to start prosecuting cops for abuse of authority. {Sucking in deeeeep breath. Exhaaaaaaling} Here, pass it on, this is some good shit.
The NIJ report is NOT science.
Can any sentient being actually think of any possible police encounter between a suspect and the police where a policeman deploys a TASER, that the suspect would be “nonstressed”??
For the record the numbers being used are rather interesting but here are numbers from TASER International.
As of March 31, 2011, TASER International has sold approximately 543,000 TASER® brand electronic control devices (ECDs) worldwide to more than 16,200 law enforcement and military agencies. More than 6,800 agencies deploy TASER ECDs specifically to all members of their patrol officers. TASER devices are sold to in more than 105 countries since 1994.
In addition, approximately 236,000 TASER brand ECDs have been sold to the general public.
Field Use/Suspect Applications: 1,297,805 ± 2%
Training/Voluntary Applications: 1,235,993 ± 7%
Total: 2.54 million+ (as of April 30, 2010)
“Just like torture, taser proponents should try it out first hand before running their mouths.”
And by “trying it first hand” they should be randomly, belligerently accosted by people they don’t know (but that they know to be in a position of authority) and tazed in said highly stressful, confusing situation, perhaps with added violence (say, one of said authority figures pinning them down face first in the pavement).
Not tazed minimally in controlled conditions by people they know intend them no lasting harm.
Whim – Eh? I think it’s a perfectly fair comment. It’s a nasty slam to the use of moderately-lethal weapons like Tasers, since they’re only safe under controlled conditions. Being shot in, say, the backside in controlled conditions isn’t that dangerous either.
And all the cops and lovers of same like to declare the deaths a result of the stress. It’s like saying gunshot wounds don’t kill people, it’s the desanguination that does it. I have received written replies akin to this about restraining chairs from my local LE. They call it something like not liking to be restrained disorder.
Yes, test them. And without their cop buddies holding their hands like babies to protect them from the inevitable fall on the hard pavement.
I agree with all the commenters about the original, now long-forgotten purpose of tasers as a substitute for guns. Now they’re a substitute for a first or second verbal command.
Given the alternative is being beaten to the ground by a metal rod, um, yeah. I’ll take door number one. I’ve been tased, it’s not great fun, then you get up and walk away. I’ve chosen not to experience being beaten to the ground by an ASP, as the “go to the hospital for a week” part didn’t fit my weekend plans.
Kevin – Unless, like me, you have a family history of heart disease. Then there’s a good chance, if you’re tased, you get to be put in a coffin. I’m sure the police would take that into account in a situation where they’re deployed.
…
Right, I’ll risk the pepper spray or batton, thanks, and I’ll keep calling tasers moderately-lethal weapons.
“Given the alternative is being beaten to the ground by a metal rod, um, yeah.”
If that’s the only alternative, then either the suspect is responsible for escalating the situation or not. If they are then, well, that’s their problem I guess. If the pig is responsible, then, well, it’s not really the case that the rod is “the alternative”, rather the electro-shock torture was employed as an alternative to brushing off the ego-shattering implications of mere peasants having backbones.
Pepper spray can kill people too. Asthma sufferers and people who are allergic to OC can have a really bad day if they get sprayed. In addition, like tasers, there a lot of “we sprayed him … and then he died” stories but iirc the root cause has always been shown in the autopsy to be something else.
I guess the lesson is that PDs need to teach the force continuum and violations of the force continuum needs to be effectively punished by PDs and the courts if the PD doesn’t. And also that people who have serious heath issues should not allow themselves to be drawn or otherwise enter into physical confrontations with police.
What is the definition of a “police state”. Well we’re ruled by a “state” and they have a “police” force therefore it’s a “police state”. Presumably it isn’t a “police state” when there’s is neither a government and all enforcement is done by individuals or private bodyguards.
There’s a lesson pigs need to be taught, but it’s not one that they’re going to teach themselves.
tasers are great. As long as they are used if the only other alternative is to beat someone or shoot them. Now, when they get used because someone is arguing a traffic ticket, or because the officer doesn’t feel like using his de-escalating training, that’s a different story.
I had to pust your article at “The Police Brutality (and Atrocity) Blog” as well as at the “Electrocuted While Black” blog, with links back to your article conversation here.
I can’t understand people who say that electrocution devices are an acceptable alternative to beating someone or shooting them. If you shoot someone in the leg, they might well live. If you beat someone’s leg with a billy club until they can’t stand up, that will stop the person, too.
But the point of this blog post and the acknowledgment by Taser International is that Tasers are often more lethal than a beating or shooting someone in the leg. They are summary, extra-judicial, pre-trial electrocution and execution devices that sometimes fail and leave their victims incapacitated and in epileptic fits instead of leaving them dead.
It could just as easily be arguing that a big pair of scissors capable of cutting off people’s arms and legs is preferable to shooting them. If that’s what policing is about, I’d rather take my chances with the criminals who DON’T act under color of law.
Francis L. Holland, Esq.
Electrocuted While Black
(Although I am licensed to practice law in a US State, I live in Brazil and my advocacy is on behalf of my convictions rather than on behalf of any other person or organization.)
Curt is right, I think.
Once upon a time in this country, before tasers, before tear gas, it was just revolvers and nightsticks. If you tried to run from the cops they’d shoot you, and everyone knew it, so it didn’t happen very often. If you pulled a gun or a knife on the cops, or tried to take a hostage, they’d shoot to kill, right here, right now. On the other hand, the cops knew people had guns–maybe not everyone, but enough that sticking the muzzle of your revolver up some taxpayer’s nose during a routine traffic stop was likely to have dire consequences sooner or later. So, again, it didn’t actually happen very much. The nightstick didn’t get used that much either, in large part, I suspect, because it required the user to go toe-to-toe with someone who just might be determined enough and tough enough and mean enough to shrug off the first smack, then take it away from him and break his face with it. It made the cops just a wee a bit less eager to use force when lives weren’t actually at stake, just a wee bit. Which was all to the good, given that at the end of the day the cops work for the taxpayers and not the reverse.
But now we hand out assault rifles and tasers and OC sprayers and tell everyone “it’s cool, this stuff is harmless.” “We need it for officer safety.” “Police officers are outgunned by criminals.” “This is necessary to enforce the law, now get on your knees, peasant.” “Put down that camera or I’ll break your fucking face.” Now the cops will taze you into a heart attack for looking at them cross-eyed, or hose you down with OC until you choke to death on your own swollen tissues. And God help you if you happen to be male, over six feet, and over two hundred pounds, confronted by some terrified Affirmative-Action copchick from the ‘burbs who’s angry at Daddy and never saw a gun except on TV before she joined the force. They are only vaguely, dimly aware that the bullets come out of the skinny end, yet their eagerness to start slinging lead puts Dirty Harry to shame.
Is it too late to start over? No more OC. No more tasers. No more SWAT Ninjas with masks and machine guns. Our police administrators and politicians and judges need to start reading Sir Robert Peel again. The cop’s most crucial tool isn’t a gun. It’s the perception by the community that he is fair, impartial, and honest. They must have the community’s willing cooperation. Without it they are nothing more than an invading, occupying army of gunmen not readily distinguishable from the hoodlums from whom they keep telling us they are here to protect us–just another street gang demanding protection money, maybe with nicer uniforms and more expensive toys than most.
[...] Tribune references an NIJ study released last June showing Tasers to be safe. Except, as I pointed out at the time, the study’s conclusion actually says Tasers are perfectly safe . . . but only when they [...]