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Minnesota Bureaucrats Save Tornado Victims From the Scourge of Unlicensed Volunteers
Friday, June 3rd, 2011….doing good without prior government approval? That’ll be a $275 fine.
And let it be a lesson to you.
47 Responses to “Minnesota Bureaucrats Save Tornado Victims From the Scourge of Unlicensed Volunteers”
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One wonders if the inspector simply had a head of solid biscuit, or if she is a sphincter tightening up simply because that’s what sphincters like to do.
Either way, she AND everybody who attempts to make it sound like what she did is reasonable public policy should be fired. Actually, hung, drawn, and quartered would be better, but I’d settle for fired.
Im starting to believe more and more that it is going to take a violent revolution to change conditions in this country. The road to serfdom is approaching quickly.
Simple explanation for this one. By going around and helping people by cutting their trees for free, he was stealing profit from the officially licensed Minneapolis tree cutters who were planning to gouge the hell out of storm victims.
Wtf is with telling people they have to “leave town”? Is this Rambo:First Blood now?
I’m not one to generally recommend violence against the government, but it might have been good if that inspector had been hanged on the spot, and the police came under rifle fire.
Protect and serve, my arse.
http://www.startribune.com/local/blogs/123067653.html
“Matt Laible, spokesman for the city, said Haege was doing work in a zone that he hadn’t been assigned to, work that should only have been done by a contractor licensed in Minneapolis. Laible said 18 citations were issued to people for working without a permit.”
I’m a resident of NoMi (North Minneapolis). My bus route to work goes right past the ‘exclusion zone’, which is likely where he was. This is, literally, the absolute poorest section of a fairly affluent Twin Cities.
Procedure trumps Rationality in a Totalitarian State.
To insure that Procedure trumps Rationality, simply set up rules and give orders to your ground troops that force them to err on the side of Procedure. You don’t even have to be evil of part of the “Shadow Council” to do this, just believe what the Federal Agencies that are on the Kool aid tell you to do.
In this case, ‘zones’ were set up and cordoned off by the Minneapolis Police, then workers were allowed to go into zones a few at a time. Of course, the serfs living in the unselected zones would be left to fend for themselves… but that’s all part of making Procedure king!
Mike Haege was in the wrong zone. It certainly looks like an honest mistake, but that attracted the attention of the ground troops assigned to make sure Procedure was followed at all cost.
“The road to serfdom is approaching quickly.”
Go ahead and explain how someone who obeys every law and regulation on the books isn’t one already.
You can’t.
Assigned WHAT?
Seriously, just lol. Try that here and you’d be laughed at. Councils have had this kind of crap struck down repeatedly. But no, that’s the socalism here for you…
Bob, where did you get the “zone” thing? He was in Minneapolis, and hadn’t paid his kickbacks to the protection racket in Minneapolis, so he couldn’t be allowed to undercut the cartel by doing work for free, according to the article.
libertarianism happens to you…
Eric – No, you don’t get it. It’s good capitalist practice. Can’t have volunteers do the socialist thing by helping people out for free.
I might be being *slightly* sarcastic here, but honestly – the patchwork of regulations you allow seems bonkers to someone from a society which YOU call over-regulated. Thing is, there are far less LAYERS of regulation here, even if the top one is larger…
in order to extract more taxes, govt has to make you more dependent. we’re always being instructed to call 911 to solve our emergencies. we have these guys that patrol the highways in pickup trucks with emergency lighting- if you break down, they’ll assist. I stopped on motorcycle (well off the road) one day to tighten a loose turn signal. this guy pulled up behind me and was partially on the highway to direct traffic around us. he created a hazard where there was none. He wouldn’t leave until I was finished. before I left, he gave me a survey card to fill out ‘so we can show the politicians how important this service is’. We’ll be calling the president ‘great leader’ or ‘father leader’ within the next few elections.
‘
Maybe, I’m dense, Leon, but where is this “here” you’re talking about?
I am no fan of the inspectors in Mpls (I am a NoMi resident), , a little bit of power with many of these folks goes a long way, but there is more to the story than the typical Agitator headline would suggest. But as was previously stated, the guy, no matter his intentions was not supposed to be where he was. This place was a disaster zone, with live wires in the street, plus the chaos of the citizens who just watched their houses destroyed. In this case, the city had a plan, first to get hot wires off the streets, thus making them safe for volunteers. then allowing those volunteers into those cleared areas to help. Rogue people coming in as do gooders was not terribly helpful at that specific point in time. Just because you have a big heart and want to help does not forgive you from following the rules.
This story ironically makes me wish I were licensed in Minnesota.
Brandon:
You have to read between the lines sometimes. Most reports are clones of others, a few add extra bits. I got the zone thing from here:
http://www.startribune.com/local/blogs/123067653.html
On the surface, it seems reasonable that with ‘downed power lines’ and whatnot this ‘zone’ thing might make sense. But residents are still allowed in, no mass evacuation seems to be in place.
As such, having people to help clear trees for the power guys makes sense, huh? If there’s really ‘downed power lines in the streets’ then shutting off the power and clearing the trees would seem the prudent course.
No, this seems to be about control. Procedure says “Take Control.” Rationality says “Use judgement to decide when to ease control and help people.”
Procedure trumped Rationality. This is not an isolated incident.
“Much of this exchange can be heard on a cell phone video that Haege took.”
All things considered, he’s lucky that he’s just getting a fine for being a decent human being.
It looks like the two primary requirements for a tree service license in the Minneapolis code are 1) ISA certification as an arborist or an arborist degree and 2) proof of insurance.
As a former tree-worker who has seen how dangerous shoddily done tree removal and pruning can be, I can say that both of these are pretty reasonable requirements. Even competently performed tree work can be as dangerous as driving, if not moreso, what with all the chainsaws, chippers and falling objects.
That being said, it seems like a prudent bureaucrat or police officer would let this one slide given that this guy probably met these requirements and was, you know, helping in a disaster.
#19 stg:
That would have been Rationality trumping Procedure. That’s what reasonable people would want to have happen. You quickly look at the scenario, see that the guy has certs for other areas and is not running a scam here, and let it ride.
But that kind of thinking doesn’t support the Totalitarian Agenda ™. Can’t have that! Right thinking will be rewarded. Wrong thinking will be punished.
@Dannyp19
“Im starting to believe more and more that it is going to take a violent revolution to change conditions in this country. The road to serfdom is approaching quickly.”
OK let’s do it bro, you bring the muskets, I’ll be right behind you.
Last I checked, most states had a law forbidding interference with emergency services personnel. Registered volunteers helping out in a disaster zone certainly qualify as emergency personnel.
Actual police officers are not exempted from those laws, so why is a license inspector allowed to interfere during an emergency?
Curt and Leon got it right! The state is in the business of armed robbery and the redistribution of wealth. It certainly won’t tolerate competition from volunteers. But it’s for our own safety, of course. Oops, I almost forgot…”it’s for the children” too.
@14 The UK, but pretty much anywhere in Europe is the same.
@Leon: layers as a measure of depth might be deceiving.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2011/jun/03/cameron-backed-report-commercialisation-childhood
The only fine this guy received was for unlicensed tree work, not for violating any exclusion zone.
Minneapolis Municipal Code:
§ 347.10: “Tree servicing” shall mean the felling, grinding, chipping, cutting, trimming, removal or hauling from the city of trees, limbs, branches, stumps or roots which are two (2) inches or more in diameter at the point of cutting or contact. “Tree servicing” shall also mean the application of pesticides to a tree.
§ 347.20: No person shall engage in tree servicing, without being licensed under this chapter, except that residents or owners of a subject property and persons holding garbage or refuse haulers’ licenses pursuant to Chapter 225 of this Code shall be excluded from the provisions of this chapter if they are engaged solely in the removal or hauling away of trees or parts thereof.
So, it’s clearly a valid application of the statue, and equally clear that this is a bad policy.
If you haven’t seen it elsewhere, Gary Johnson is being excluded from the presidential debate in New Hampshire on the 13th. Garyjohnson2012 has phone numbers for people to complain to. I’ve never had any serious disappointment this early in campaign season; this is a new record.
Simple solution: The next time Minneapolis has a disaster, every volunteer organization says: “Fuck you, you’re on your own.”
@John – I think you’ve missed the fact it’s talking about voluntary code. It’s something which could be used, for instance, as a defence in front of the ASA against complaints.
Much of what you specifically legislate on is done here via voluntary agreements (like Unions, nearly entirely) or via common law. The only likely legal change there is making the 9pm “watershed” on TV stronger.
Also, note, the definition of “child” as ending at 16. Contrast that with America’s stance…shit, there’s strong support for voting at 16 here.
He had the wood chipper right there…and the city inspector was wearing slippery shoes and all…then Fargo.
When I was training in how to rescue people in disasters etc, they had a class on legal aspects. At the end of the day the lesson was: do what you think is right, and let the chips fall where they may. I hope this guy goes to court, and the city is seen for the d-bags they are…..he will be getting more and better advertising than a 30 s superbowl slot.
#26 | croaker | June 3rd, 2011 at 7:35 pm
Bad news, Everyone! This will only serve the purposes of the Totalitarian Agenda ™. Unmitigated tragedies only serve to ramp up the Police State.
#29 | SJE | June 3rd, 2011 at 8:31 pm
No he won’t! If he goes to court (And he probably will not.) it will take years to resolve and will be largely forgotten by then.
When YOU got training it sounds like the local policy was “Rationality before Procedure.” That has changed. Now the lesson seems to be “Follow Procedure, or you may be fired”.
Run the fine and money through the chipper and send the remains.
Bob: I have to live with myself and my conscience. I’d rather do good and spite the officials. Actually, I’m enough of a trouble maker that I would enjoy the chance to take this to court and have the city squirm in front of the cameras.
For a comparison: one of the biggest problems after the Sendai earthquake was that the Japanese state and the people are so used to order and obeying authority that it took forever to get things done. Then some official just took control and (fortunately) everyone else decided to let him be the boss.
“ISA certification as an arborist or an arborist degree and 2) proof of insurance.”
I live near Hastings, MN and have hired Mike / Custom Cut to clear trees for me. He’s certified and insured, and speaking a former trainer of HAZMAT workers I’ll say that I was impressed with the effort Mike and his crew put into working safely.
I’m sure the only reason he’s not licensed to work in MPLS is because he’s got plenty of business down here.
This is an exception and should be considered as such.
I am a licensed Ham Radio operator. We have privileged, controlled access to certain segments of radio spectrum (very valuable these days). During a civil emergency, the rules that constrain where (within radio spectrum) we can transmit, basically go away. In short, when human life and property are endangered, we can transmit within any segment of the spectrum, government controlled or no, provided it is an essential service transmission.
So basically, during an emergency we can transmit signals anywhere, anytime provided we have a good reason for doing it. During Katrina and other natural disasters, Ham operators mobilized to provide vital communications.
Providing other essential services during an emergency, like tree removal, is no different than that. These folks need to get a grip… and take the blue pill.
If he’d left her hanging by her ankles from a tree for a couple of hours, and he were charged as a result of it, let’s just say that the prosecutor probably wouldn’t want me on the jury…
-jcr
Here’s the number for the City of Hastings: 651-480-2350
Press 0 to leave a message in the general delivery mail box. I already did.
Also, post on your FB pages, etc. Make them feel like the idiots that they are.
Some wealthy individual should go out and spend the money to License every person within a 100 mile radius. Then they should point out how all that money would have gone to charity but, unfortunately, was required to facilitate people from offering basic volunteer services.
Difster, I don’t think the City of Hastings had anything to do with this. That’s where the guy *usually* works. The incident happened in Minneapolis, where he doesn’t usually work.
Maybe something might happen if you hassle people who weren’t involved, but it’s probably not what you’d want to happen.
What? This guy was helping people outside of his assigned zone? He wasn’t following the state approved plan? String him up. Hey, btw anyone know if NOLA ever ticketed that kid who took the school bus and drove a bus load of people out of danger? He was licensed to drive the bus, and didn’t have permission to take the bus. I certainly hope they threw the book at him, deviating from the official state approved hurricane plan like that.
Bureaucrats are concerned with their regulations and rules and how to tell others to mind what they say.
They are not paid to think, nor to press for positive results or outcomes. Those do not exist in their lexicon.
“… running a Bible study group out of their house.”
Oh shit can a SWAT raid be far behind?
jp nails it. Bureaucrats don’t think. They just want to be right. Sad.
And I do not buy the “hot wire” angle of all of this. More likely is the inspector has some local tree services he or she was protecting. Don’t want any suburban tree services coming in and messing things up.
croaker #27 Step 1 make volunteering hard. Step 2 No volunteers Step 3 SEE ONLY THE GOVERNMENT CAN DO THIS — mo’ money, mo’ money
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