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	<title>Comments on: More Immigrants Less Crime</title>
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	<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2011/05/11/more-immigrants-less-crime/</link>
	<description>It rankles me when somebody tries to tell somebody what to do.</description>
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		<title>By: Stray</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2011/05/11/more-immigrants-less-crime/comment-page-1/#comment-1118230</link>
		<dc:creator>Stray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Jun 2011 02:41:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=20322#comment-1118230</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Is this bonehead really trying to push this garbage again?!? Don&#039;t tell me, all of our prisons in California, Arizona and Texas are just full of really tan white guys with funny accents, right?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Is this bonehead really trying to push this garbage again?!? Don&#8217;t tell me, all of our prisons in California, Arizona and Texas are just full of really tan white guys with funny accents, right?</p>
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		<title>By: pfwag</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2011/05/11/more-immigrants-less-crime/comment-page-1/#comment-1058891</link>
		<dc:creator>pfwag</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 May 2011 16:12:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=20322#comment-1058891</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Actually this is a &quot;nobody really knows&quot; issue because the Govt does not track or report crimes by the nationality of the perpetrator. As other posters have noted, illegal alien criminals are often deported rather than being jailed, especially for the &quot;minor&quot; crimes, so simply counting &quot;heads&quot; is not indicative of actual crime rates.

In any case, there are some 300,000 illegal aliens in state and Federal detention systems and there are strong indications that illegal aliens do commit crime at higher rates than citizens and legal immigrants. See the crime chapters in THE DARK SIDE OF ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION. (Google it.)

Regardless, since the perpetrator was not supposed to be here in the first place, that makes the collateral damage of our immigration policies and lack of border security even more tragic for all the victims.  

BTW, like the majority of Americans, I&#039;m not &quot;anti-immigrant&quot; but am anti-ILLEGAL immigrant.&quot;  Like most liberals and progressives, Mr. Moskos doesn&#039;t seem to know what the difference between legal and illegal immigrants is.  

However, the most asinine thing he wrote is &quot;(people who have the desire and means to get to the US, legally or not, may be the cream of the crop compared to those left behind).&quot;  Where is the documentation for that?  

Maybe a good chunk of those &quot;people&quot; are hard core criminals like drug pushers and MS13 gang members.  In actual fact we know that a good number of them are sexual perverts because ICE has arrested and deported about 15,000 ILLEGAL ALIEN sexual predators under Operation Predator.   If you want to get really ticked off read the Sex Crimes chapter in THE DARK SIDE OF ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION and see what many of those &quot;good family values&quot; illegal immigrants are doing to children all across the USA.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually this is a &#8220;nobody really knows&#8221; issue because the Govt does not track or report crimes by the nationality of the perpetrator. As other posters have noted, illegal alien criminals are often deported rather than being jailed, especially for the &#8220;minor&#8221; crimes, so simply counting &#8220;heads&#8221; is not indicative of actual crime rates.</p>
<p>In any case, there are some 300,000 illegal aliens in state and Federal detention systems and there are strong indications that illegal aliens do commit crime at higher rates than citizens and legal immigrants. See the crime chapters in THE DARK SIDE OF ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION. (Google it.)</p>
<p>Regardless, since the perpetrator was not supposed to be here in the first place, that makes the collateral damage of our immigration policies and lack of border security even more tragic for all the victims.  </p>
<p>BTW, like the majority of Americans, I&#8217;m not &#8220;anti-immigrant&#8221; but am anti-ILLEGAL immigrant.&#8221;  Like most liberals and progressives, Mr. Moskos doesn&#8217;t seem to know what the difference between legal and illegal immigrants is.  </p>
<p>However, the most asinine thing he wrote is &#8220;(people who have the desire and means to get to the US, legally or not, may be the cream of the crop compared to those left behind).&#8221;  Where is the documentation for that?  </p>
<p>Maybe a good chunk of those &#8220;people&#8221; are hard core criminals like drug pushers and MS13 gang members.  In actual fact we know that a good number of them are sexual perverts because ICE has arrested and deported about 15,000 ILLEGAL ALIEN sexual predators under Operation Predator.   If you want to get really ticked off read the Sex Crimes chapter in THE DARK SIDE OF ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION and see what many of those &#8220;good family values&#8221; illegal immigrants are doing to children all across the USA.</p>
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		<title>By: Drea</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2011/05/11/more-immigrants-less-crime/comment-page-1/#comment-994001</link>
		<dc:creator>Drea</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 May 2011 18:48:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=20322#comment-994001</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Percent of the total illegal population imprisoned vs percent of total legal population imprisoned. I would like to see that statistic.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Percent of the total illegal population imprisoned vs percent of total legal population imprisoned. I would like to see that statistic.</p>
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		<title>By: Leisureguy</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2011/05/11/more-immigrants-less-crime/comment-page-1/#comment-993480</link>
		<dc:creator>Leisureguy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 May 2011 16:22:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=20322#comment-993480</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The first comment above shows some remarkable ignorance and probably some prejudice as well: &quot;All illegal immigrants are criminals by definition.&quot; No, they are not. Violation of immigration rules are not a matter of criminal law, but of civil law.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The first comment above shows some remarkable ignorance and probably some prejudice as well: &#8220;All illegal immigrants are criminals by definition.&#8221; No, they are not. Violation of immigration rules are not a matter of criminal law, but of civil law.</p>
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		<title>By: Public Service Announcement &#8211; Bridget Magnus Shows the World as Seen from 4&#039;11&#34;</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2011/05/11/more-immigrants-less-crime/comment-page-1/#comment-993355</link>
		<dc:creator>Public Service Announcement &#8211; Bridget Magnus Shows the World as Seen from 4&#039;11&#34;</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 May 2011 15:53:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=20322#comment-993355</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] rights; McCain regains sanity; awwww; reading; kids are capable when we let them be; on immigration; Social Security; and does Michelle Bachmann know more than a high [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] rights; McCain regains sanity; awwww; reading; kids are capable when we let them be; on immigration; Social Security; and does Michelle Bachmann know more than a high [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Don&#8217;t Be Afraid &#124; Sinting Link</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2011/05/11/more-immigrants-less-crime/comment-page-1/#comment-992953</link>
		<dc:creator>Don&#8217;t Be Afraid &#124; Sinting Link</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 May 2011 14:06:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=20322#comment-992953</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Moskos furnishes evidence that illegal immigrants have lower crime [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Moskos furnishes evidence that illegal immigrants have lower crime [...]</p>
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		<title>By: markm</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2011/05/11/more-immigrants-less-crime/comment-page-1/#comment-989811</link>
		<dc:creator>markm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 May 2011 00:42:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=20322#comment-989811</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[supercat &#124;  May 11th, 2011 at 6:15 pm 

&quot;Why is there an assumption that the rate at which certain groups commit crimes will strongly correlate with the rate of arrest or imprisonment? It would seem highly plausible that people who can present a fictitious identity when arrested will be far more able to evade imprisonment than would those who have to present a real one.&quot; If fake ID&#039;s were effective to avoid arrest and imprisonment, every native-born criminal would have at least one.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>supercat |  May 11th, 2011 at 6:15 pm </p>
<p>&#8220;Why is there an assumption that the rate at which certain groups commit crimes will strongly correlate with the rate of arrest or imprisonment? It would seem highly plausible that people who can present a fictitious identity when arrested will be far more able to evade imprisonment than would those who have to present a real one.&#8221; If fake ID&#8217;s were effective to avoid arrest and imprisonment, every native-born criminal would have at least one.</p>
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		<title>By: witless chum</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2011/05/11/more-immigrants-less-crime/comment-page-1/#comment-988923</link>
		<dc:creator>witless chum</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 May 2011 20:34:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=20322#comment-988923</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;ve seen a couple of criminal cases where illegal immigrants were convicted of felonies in Michigan and were supposed to serve their prison terms and then be deported. I guess I&#039;d assumed that was the normal way of doing things, but I don&#039;t know.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve seen a couple of criminal cases where illegal immigrants were convicted of felonies in Michigan and were supposed to serve their prison terms and then be deported. I guess I&#8217;d assumed that was the normal way of doing things, but I don&#8217;t know.</p>
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		<title>By: C.A.J.</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2011/05/11/more-immigrants-less-crime/comment-page-1/#comment-987848</link>
		<dc:creator>C.A.J.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 May 2011 15:54:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=20322#comment-987848</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The numbers are even more skewed, because a substantial portion of illegal immigrants in federal prison are there simply because they are illegal immigrants.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The numbers are even more skewed, because a substantial portion of illegal immigrants in federal prison are there simply because they are illegal immigrants.</p>
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		<title>By: More immigrants, less crime &#171; Reform Immigration For America</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2011/05/11/more-immigrants-less-crime/comment-page-1/#comment-987632</link>
		<dc:creator>More immigrants, less crime &#171; Reform Immigration For America</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 May 2011 15:05:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=20322#comment-987632</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] The Agitator: Did you know immigrants have lower rates of crime than native-born Americans? Non-citizens, [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] The Agitator: Did you know immigrants have lower rates of crime than native-born Americans? Non-citizens, [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Westie</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2011/05/11/more-immigrants-less-crime/comment-page-1/#comment-986677</link>
		<dc:creator>Westie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 May 2011 09:54:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=20322#comment-986677</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[What I find interesting in the immigration argument is the constant refrain from &quot;Libertarians&quot; about the &#039;Free Market of labor&#039; and a quite outlandish defense of the criminality of illegal immigration not to mention the disconnect by &#039;&#039;Libertarians&quot; between their positive view of State Police crime reports pertaining to the favored constituency (illegal immis) while OTOH their constant refrain against the Police State Laws. Reminds me of those defending &#039;Free Trade&#039; when there&#039;s actually no free trade it is in the real world trade managed by the corporate/government handlers.
These inconsistencies may be one of the reasons Libertarian candidates never resonate with the electorate which generally responds to the common sense truth they live.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What I find interesting in the immigration argument is the constant refrain from &#8220;Libertarians&#8221; about the &#8216;Free Market of labor&#8217; and a quite outlandish defense of the criminality of illegal immigration not to mention the disconnect by &#8221;Libertarians&#8221; between their positive view of State Police crime reports pertaining to the favored constituency (illegal immis) while OTOH their constant refrain against the Police State Laws. Reminds me of those defending &#8216;Free Trade&#8217; when there&#8217;s actually no free trade it is in the real world trade managed by the corporate/government handlers.<br />
These inconsistencies may be one of the reasons Libertarian candidates never resonate with the electorate which generally responds to the common sense truth they live.</p>
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		<title>By: DPirate</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2011/05/11/more-immigrants-less-crime/comment-page-1/#comment-986183</link>
		<dc:creator>DPirate</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 May 2011 07:16:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=20322#comment-986183</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;d say it&#039;s because they cannot afford the price of drugs.

@BSK: Yes.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d say it&#8217;s because they cannot afford the price of drugs.</p>
<p>@BSK: Yes.</p>
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		<title>By: BSK</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2011/05/11/more-immigrants-less-crime/comment-page-1/#comment-985714</link>
		<dc:creator>BSK</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 May 2011 04:36:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=20322#comment-985714</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[To all the people arguing that the stats only show that imprisonment rates are lower not necessarily that crime rates are lower, will you also acknowledge that the stats that are often trotted out that show the disproportionate percentage of people of color in the prison system show nothing about the inherent criminality of these folks, since that is so often the conclusion offered in response to such numbers?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To all the people arguing that the stats only show that imprisonment rates are lower not necessarily that crime rates are lower, will you also acknowledge that the stats that are often trotted out that show the disproportionate percentage of people of color in the prison system show nothing about the inherent criminality of these folks, since that is so often the conclusion offered in response to such numbers?</p>
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		<title>By: John Jenkins</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2011/05/11/more-immigrants-less-crime/comment-page-1/#comment-985372</link>
		<dc:creator>John Jenkins</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 May 2011 02:43:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=20322#comment-985372</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;Multiple studies have shown that illegal immigrants have higher crime rates than native-born citizens.&quot;

Cites?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Multiple studies have shown that illegal immigrants have higher crime rates than native-born citizens.&#8221;</p>
<p>Cites?</p>
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		<title>By: shecky</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2011/05/11/more-immigrants-less-crime/comment-page-1/#comment-985272</link>
		<dc:creator>shecky</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 May 2011 02:08:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=20322#comment-985272</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Multiple studies have shown that illegal immigrants have higher crime rates than native-born citizens.&lt;/i&gt;

Show your work.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Multiple studies have shown that illegal immigrants have higher crime rates than native-born citizens.</p>
<p>Show your work.</p>
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		<title>By: Leon Wolfeson</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2011/05/11/more-immigrants-less-crime/comment-page-1/#comment-985007</link>
		<dc:creator>Leon Wolfeson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 May 2011 00:44:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=20322#comment-985007</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[C. S. P. Schofield - Don&#039;t worry, they&#039;ll be able to point at the UK for proof other countries are adopting their system of quotas!

So, what IS my experience here? Oh right, games industry has shrunk 25% in the last 4 years, partly because of that. At least 12 individuals couldn&#039;t take up jobs in the UK because of the new rules, all of which were highly skilled professionals, the lowest paid job of the bunch was £45k, and two of them (who would qualify, easily, for the US&#039;s O-&quot;superstar&quot; visa&#039;s (and one has in the past, in fact)) were jobs earning over £100k.

And that&#039;s just incidents I&#039;ve been able to find out about.

There&#039;s a reason we - and the US, to a lesser degree - are bleeding games jobs to Canada.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>C. S. P. Schofield &#8211; Don&#8217;t worry, they&#8217;ll be able to point at the UK for proof other countries are adopting their system of quotas!</p>
<p>So, what IS my experience here? Oh right, games industry has shrunk 25% in the last 4 years, partly because of that. At least 12 individuals couldn&#8217;t take up jobs in the UK because of the new rules, all of which were highly skilled professionals, the lowest paid job of the bunch was £45k, and two of them (who would qualify, easily, for the US&#8217;s O-&#8221;superstar&#8221; visa&#8217;s (and one has in the past, in fact)) were jobs earning over £100k.</p>
<p>And that&#8217;s just incidents I&#8217;ve been able to find out about.</p>
<p>There&#8217;s a reason we &#8211; and the US, to a lesser degree &#8211; are bleeding games jobs to Canada.</p>
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		<title>By: Dr. T</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2011/05/11/more-immigrants-less-crime/comment-page-1/#comment-984793</link>
		<dc:creator>Dr. T</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 May 2011 23:38:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=20322#comment-984793</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The correct headline for this post should be: Legal Immigrants Have Lower Rates of Imprisonment. Nothing else was proved by the data. Multiple studies have shown that illegal immigrants have higher crime rates than native-born citizens. As other commenters noted above, the statistics only referred to imprisonment of legal immigrants. Without knowing the numbers of crime-related deportations, we cannot know that the crime rates of legal immigrants are lower than those of native-born citizens.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The correct headline for this post should be: Legal Immigrants Have Lower Rates of Imprisonment. Nothing else was proved by the data. Multiple studies have shown that illegal immigrants have higher crime rates than native-born citizens. As other commenters noted above, the statistics only referred to imprisonment of legal immigrants. Without knowing the numbers of crime-related deportations, we cannot know that the crime rates of legal immigrants are lower than those of native-born citizens.</p>
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		<title>By: supercat</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2011/05/11/more-immigrants-less-crime/comment-page-1/#comment-984487</link>
		<dc:creator>supercat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 May 2011 22:15:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=20322#comment-984487</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Why is there an assumption that the rate at which certain groups commit crimes will strongly correlate with the rate of arrest or imprisonment?  It would seem highly plausible that people who can present a fictitious identity when arrested will be far more able to evade imprisonment than would those who have to present a real one.  Perhaps there&#039;s some way of countering that severe sampling bias, but I&#039;ve not seen much effort to do so.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why is there an assumption that the rate at which certain groups commit crimes will strongly correlate with the rate of arrest or imprisonment?  It would seem highly plausible that people who can present a fictitious identity when arrested will be far more able to evade imprisonment than would those who have to present a real one.  Perhaps there&#8217;s some way of countering that severe sampling bias, but I&#8217;ve not seen much effort to do so.</p>
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		<title>By: Jason</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2011/05/11/more-immigrants-less-crime/comment-page-1/#comment-984418</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 May 2011 21:52:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=20322#comment-984418</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@terrafromer  Illegal entry isn&#039;t the only way to become an illegal immigrant.  You can also overstay your visa.

Most people are deported on illegal presence charges, which is a civil infraction (like a speeding ticket).  These proceedings do not require a full jury trial.  Bringing illegal immigrants in on criminal charges would bankrupt the US.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@terrafromer  Illegal entry isn&#8217;t the only way to become an illegal immigrant.  You can also overstay your visa.</p>
<p>Most people are deported on illegal presence charges, which is a civil infraction (like a speeding ticket).  These proceedings do not require a full jury trial.  Bringing illegal immigrants in on criminal charges would bankrupt the US.</p>
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		<title>By: C. S. P. Schofield</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2011/05/11/more-immigrants-less-crime/comment-page-1/#comment-984330</link>
		<dc:creator>C. S. P. Schofield</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 May 2011 21:25:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=20322#comment-984330</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I could be didactic and point out that any undocumented alien in the United States is, in Law if not according to common sense, a criminal. This is important only because the quote ignores it, thus calling the repute of the one quoted into question.

But our immigration policy has been so broken for so long that NOTHING having anything to do with it makes much sense. The core of it is that political hacks IN BOTH PARTIES have voted for &quot;tight&quot; immigration restrictions while at the same time making sure that there is no money to enforce them - thereby being in a position to (superficially) please two groups; the anti-immigrationists and those who want cheap labor. Compounding this is the question of what effect cutting off the illegal immigration safety valve would have on Mexico. If the numbers I hear quoted that claim that money mailed home from the U.S. is the Mexican economy&#039;s second biggest source of hard currency are rue, cutting them off could conceivably cause the collapse of the Mexican economy and government. 

Whatever else we do we must bring our actual laws in better line with what we are prepared to pay to enforce.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I could be didactic and point out that any undocumented alien in the United States is, in Law if not according to common sense, a criminal. This is important only because the quote ignores it, thus calling the repute of the one quoted into question.</p>
<p>But our immigration policy has been so broken for so long that NOTHING having anything to do with it makes much sense. The core of it is that political hacks IN BOTH PARTIES have voted for &#8220;tight&#8221; immigration restrictions while at the same time making sure that there is no money to enforce them &#8211; thereby being in a position to (superficially) please two groups; the anti-immigrationists and those who want cheap labor. Compounding this is the question of what effect cutting off the illegal immigration safety valve would have on Mexico. If the numbers I hear quoted that claim that money mailed home from the U.S. is the Mexican economy&#8217;s second biggest source of hard currency are rue, cutting them off could conceivably cause the collapse of the Mexican economy and government. </p>
<p>Whatever else we do we must bring our actual laws in better line with what we are prepared to pay to enforce.</p>
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