When Donald Trump Didn’t Need Proof

Friday, April 29th, 2011

In 1989 Donald Trump took out a full page ad in four New York City newspapers calling for the execution of the alleged rapists in the infamous Central Park Jogger case. Never mind that the five alleged assailants were all minors, or that rape wasn’t a capital crime. There was a moral panic to be stoked.

And stoked it was. New York’s media parted with their tradition of not publishing the names of minors accused of crimes. The case gave us the term “wilding”, described at the time as the name violent youth gangs gave their sprees of crime and terror, but which was most likely the result of an NYPD detective who misunderstood the lyrics to a Tone Lōc song. The case made national headlines, and fueled the growing myth of the super-predator, in which the law-and-order crowd terrified white suburbia with tales of a rising class of young, black uber-criminals. The explosion in violent juvenile crime predicted by the likes of William Bennett and John DiIulio, Jr. never happened.

If Trump had his way, all of the Central Park Five would have been dead by 2002. That’s the year Matias Reyes, already in prison for rape and murder, confessed to the crime, and insisted he acted alone. DNA tests had already confirmed that only one person raped victim Trisha Meili. Further testing showed Reyes was that person. Manhattan District Attorney Robert Morganthou later vacated the convictions of the other five suspects, all of whom had already served their sentences for the attack.

Now, one of the wrongly convicted, Raymond Santana, wants Trump the presidential candidate to apologize. From NY1:

Santana was 14 years old at the time. He says Trump’s call for the “death penalty” helped fuel the media firestorm before the suspects even went to trial.

“It says a lot about his character. If he can give the death penalty to 14-year-old, 15-year-old kids then there’s nothing he would not do. Those are characteristics of a tyrant, not characteristics of a president,” Santana said.

Santana served seven years in prison in connection with the rape and beating of Trisha Meili.

All five of the accused have sued the city. That lawsuit is still pending.

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65 Responses to “When Donald Trump Didn’t Need Proof”

  1. #1 |  Bryan | 

    I like the ‘tyrant’ reference. Hopefully that becomes a trend, of referring to the wannabes by their true title.

  2. #2 |  Curt | 

    Obama must be loving all of the attention that Trump is getting. Not that Obama has serious concerns about whether he’ll win the 2012 election, but Trump is just a side-show ass-clown.

    Meanwhile, guys like Gary Johnson can hardly get their name in the news. Not that I think he has much of a chance, but at least he’d provoke some real discussion instead of two weeks of “news” about birthers.

  3. #3 |  DarkEFang | 

    If there were any candidate that would be proud to have the title of tyrant, it would be Donald Trump.

  4. #4 |  Len | 

    In a just society, rape would be a capital crime.

  5. #5 |  Nick T. | 

    “Those are characteristics of a tyrant, not characteristics of a president”

    [insert something about how it's getting harder to tell the difference these days] (sigh)

  6. #6 |  Dana Gower | 

    #4 In a just society, rape would be a capital crime.

    You don’t read this site much, do you Len?

  7. #7 |  Scooby | 

    Silly Dana. Don’t you know trolls don’t read?

  8. #8 |  Gideon Darrow | 

    Nick T. beat me to it.

  9. #9 |  ClubMedSux | 

    I truly believe that most “elite” investors are simply ones who got lucky (I mean, if Trump were really a business genius why did he go bankrupt?). Give a million idiots a million dollars each to invest and SOMEBODY’S gonna hit it big, right? Unfortunately, if that idiot happens to be a megalomaniac he misinterprets his luck as evidence of genius, and suddenly everything he thinks MUST be right. To me, that’s Trump in a nutshell.

  10. #10 |  ClubMedSux | 

    Also, in response to Len @#4, if by a “just” society he means an omniscient society in which the judiciary is infallible and every convicted rapist is somebody who knowingly violated a non-consenting individual, I think you could at least put forth a rational argument that it should be a capital crime. That being said, the notion of such a society ever existing is so laughable that I don’t see much point in engaging in such a theoretical debate.

  11. #11 |  xenia onatopp | 

    In a just society, rape would be a capital crime.

    Please. On what grounds? That the victim’s chastity and virtue are damaged beyond redemption? Look, I’m a woman who has, in fact, been raped twice: once at knifepoint by a stranger and once by a friend of a friend. And you know what? I’m ok, and I was ok within days of the rape both times. It’s been over 30 years, and if I was gonna be crippled by the trauma I think it would have happened by now.

    I don’t expect other women to react the same way I did, but in talking to other rape survivors/victims over the years, I’ve been surprised to find that a healthy percentage of women feel guilty or puzzled because rather than the trauma and lingering, paralyzing fear that they’ve been taught to expect, their main reaction after a stranger rape is relief at being alive and physically still whole; they’re often sure that they’re alone in being able to just go on living their life, that they must not be psychologically normal or emotionally stable if they aren’t breaking down and falling apart. For me, it was no different than being the victim of a nonsexual physical assault; I chose not to feel shame based the body part the attack was focused on. I won’t give anyone that kind of control over my sexuality or self-image.

    It’s horrifying to go through, scary as fuck when you aren’t sure if he intends to kill you, and infuriating to be rendered momentarily helpless. It doesn’t have to be the defining incident of a life, though. Let the rapist obsess over it, because I don’t.

    Again, this is not to make light of rape, and be aware that I’m talking about garden variety rape here, rape by a youngish man who’s a complete failure as a human being but also pretty scared of losing control or getting caught. Sexual sadists and mature serial sexual predators are a whole different story, and so are the crimes they commit, and I’m not qualified to comment on what level of wreckage they may leave in their wake.

    Ok, way, way off topic. Sorry.

  12. #12 |  fwb | 

    Rape is always a capital crime, and rapists when proven guilty with physical evidence, should ALWAYS be given the death penalty. It matters not that a bunch of a-holes in a legislative suit place rape by a different class.

  13. #13 |  C. S. P. Schofield | 

    Crimes should be capitol crimes only where the reasonable response to a pseudo-human who commits such an act is to put him down as rabid. Make goddamned sure you have the right animal, prosecute the hell out of any official who cheats to put an innocent man at jeopardy, and then kill they few Ted Bundys you catch, on the grounds that there is no justification for taking any chance of them ever being free again.

    Rapists should be strapped to a frame, and their victims allowed to whack them in the scrotum until the victim is tired. It that does for their reproductive equipment, oh dear.

  14. #14 |  Chris | 

    >> DNA tests had already confirmed that only one person raped victim Trisha Meili.

    DNA can’t confirm that only one person raped someone, even if a single DNA profile was obtained from a rape kit.

    >> That’s the year Matias Reyes, already in prison for rape and murder, confessed to the crime, and insisted he acted alone.

    Well, Matias Reyes, if you “insist”.

    I’m not saying that Reyes didn’t do it, nor that he acted alone. He may have for all I know.

  15. #15 |  edmund dantes | 

    The funny thing about Trump is that even if you take an ultraconservative estimate of the amount of money he inherited from his dad he’s a horrible financial genius.

    If you had simply taken the money he got from his dad and invested it in a S&P tracking index fun, he’d have billions and billions more that he claims to have. Many argue he doesn’t even have a billion to begin with.

  16. #16 |  FelipesCableRepair | 

    @#2
    You’re dead on about the distraction issue. I’ve been advancing the half-serious theorty that Trump is actually a DNC mole intended expressly for this purpose.

    If you asked a Democrat to design his ideal straw-man opponent for Obama, I’m not sure I could find a better option than Trump:
    Platform focuses on crackpot issues … Check
    Already disliked by a large pct of the population .. Check
    Conspicuously rich … Check
    Probable skeletons in the closet … Check

  17. #17 |  random_guy | 

    @2 Curt, its almost like the media only talks about the most provocative and substance-less issues it can find. Meaningful policy discussion would require them to be actual journalists and occasionally challenge the preconceived notions of their audience.

    @9, CMS, you should read Malcolm Gladwells book “Outliers” he talks about that kind of thing. For instance all the great industrialists of the late 1800’s were born with the same ten year period. Same thing with the personal computing boom, anyone older than 25 had a career or family and couldn’t risk breaking new ground in an emerging industry, so guys like Bill Gates were in the perfect position at the perfect time to take advantage of the emerging technology and hit the PC boom.

    Bill Gates went to a private high school that had a computer lab, in the 70’s, when many universities didn’t have access to computers. He then got an internship for several years working as a programmer at nuclear facility, where he already had more computer experience than his adult co-workers. So a series of coincidences led him to be ridiculously experienced in a narrow but growing field, while still be young enough to take the entrepreneurial leap. Even Bill himself admits that hes been incredibly lucky in his life to get where he is.

    So yeah there are two kinds of billionaires, the ones that inherit most of it from daddy, and the guys who are born at the right time and place to make their fortune through a very narrow window of opportunity. Oh and then theres Warren Buffet, who just applied sound investing strategy for 60+ years, but he’s an outlier.

    —Don’t feed the capital punishment trolls—

  18. #18 |  DarkEFang | 

    #4 Len –

    “In a just society, rape would be a capital crime.”

    Rape of a woman, that is. Rape of a man, as everybody knows, is hilarious.

  19. #19 |  André | 

    fwb, the problem is that once people have found it justified to execute people for rape, the physical evidence requirement will get eased.

    Ending the death penalty outright makes perfect sense from two very libertarian perspectives: it’s cheaper to do life imprisonment, and a life sentence without parole is a death sentence carried out slowly by ma nature. You win both ways.

    You have to also consider the innocence projects that have exonerated scads of people that seemed overwhelmingly guilty at the time. Short of a videotape, or conclusive DNA evidence of a murder, there’s always some doubt and human error and unconscious biases. Even with incontrovertible proof, you might as well save a few bucks by letting the guy rot for a couple of decades before his heart stops.

  20. #20 |  Anonymous | 

    @#17

    “Rape of a clown, as everybody knows, is hilarious.”

    FIFY

  21. #21 |  jppatter | 

    So Trump wants to execute accused American citizens without a trial. That CLEARLY disqualifies him from being President. I mean, can you imagine a world where the President of the United States would say that he has the authority to kill American citizens whenever he wants to? Glad I don’t live in a world like that.

    http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2010/04/07/assassinations

  22. #22 |  omar | 

    Rapists should be strapped to a frame, and their victims allowed to whack them in the scrotum until the victim is tired. It that does for their reproductive equipment, oh dear.

    I hope the commentators at the new Agitator-Huffington Post site can keep up with that level of batshitcrazy.

    Do you have any other torture-fantasies you want to get off your chest, C. S. P. Schofield? I’d really like to hear your opinions on what you would like to do to a pederast.

  23. #23 |  Cyto | 

    Trump doesn’t really deserve this level of scrutiny. He’s proven that he’s a complete moron on his reality show. He can barely follow the flow of a conversation. I don’t know how he managed to maintain a wealthy lifestyle, but it certainly wasn’t his intelligence or judgement.

    He got a little attention by being famous and saying things like “I’ve studied history a little… when you win wars, you get to take their stuff. We should take the oil in Iraq and Libya to pay for the wars.” That kind of stuff vents a little populist anger.

    But nobody is going to take this buffoon seriously when it comes time to vote.

    Right? Please tell me I’m right on this one…

  24. #24 |  Leah | 

    I don’t understand why rape should be a capital crime in any situation. All you’re doing is removing any motivation to leave the victim alive. If you’re going to get the death penalty no matter what, why wouldn’t you kill the potential witness?

    Rape is bad, being dead, one would assume, would be worse.

  25. #25 |  Andrew Roth | 

    Re: #23:

    For buffoons who were taken seriously by the electorate, I submit George W. Bush.

  26. #26 |  BamBam | 

    @16, the entire political scene and voting is smoke and mirrors. There is nothing honest about any of it. To believe in the system is to be ignorant of the facts and not calling a spade a spade.

  27. #27 |  CommonSense | 

    @19 Life imprisonment is only cheaper (in terms of money) than capital punishment if the guy dies the day he is sentenced. Figure a rather healthy 25 yo sentenced to life, that’s at least 50 years worth of meals, security, health services, infrastructure services, costs of appeals and appeals and appeals, costs of penalty revisions, etc… Do the math…

  28. #28 |  Mattocracy | 

    I’m a little dismayed as well at how many people here are advocating a punishment that far exceeds the damage done in a crime. In a just society, the punishment should be equal to the crime. How can you justify killing someone who didn’t kill someone else? Or mutilating their genitals when the perpetrator hasn’t mutilated anyone else’s?

  29. #29 |  Len | 

    Leah,

    Consider what will happen when videotaping becomes universal. Then there will be witnesses everywhere.

    Matt,

    If the damage done to rape includes effects upon the personality of the victim, then conceivably rape could be worse than murder.

    All,

    Even some of right-wing nut jobs appreciate Balko’s blogging goodness.

  30. #30 |  Mattocracy | 

    “If the damage done to rape includes effects upon the personality of the victim, then conceivably rape could be worse than murder”

    Causing pyschological damage to someone isn’t worse than murder. It sucks, it’s severity should be considered when sentencing someone, but it’s not objectively true to state that psychological trauma is worse than murder.

  31. #31 |  Andrew Roth | 

    Re: #11:

    You’re not off topic at all.

    The prevalence of rape has definitely been exaggerated by the mass media. The psychic damage caused by rape has probably been exaggerated in some instances, too.

    I often watch “Law and Order: SVU,” which is pretty well researched for a crime drama. Rape victims who sustain no lasting psychological trauma are practically nonexistent in the series. I think that is the case less because the producers have a political or sociological axe to grind than because truly resilient victims would make for lousy drama. Two of the running themes of the series are crack detectives avenging psychically broken victims and encouraging reluctant victims to press charges and testify against their attackers, since otherwise they will regret not confronting the bastards. This makes for much more engrossing television than resilient, emotionally whole women saying, “yeah, I was raped, but thank God I survived,” and moving forward with their lives.

    Victims of sexual assault and other violent crimes react in a wide variety of ways, but crime dramas are skewed towards protracted narrative arcs of catharsis and vengeance. Many viewers come away with distorted notions of the effects of crime, especially if they can’t tell the difference between nonfiction and fiction.

    SVU is a model of sociological and legal exactitude compared to much of the salacious crime reporting on television: evening newscasts where “if it bleeds, it leads,” the travesties of “To Catch a Predator” and its creepy host, Chris Hansen, etc. That sort of misleading, pernicious garbage really drives policy debates.

    Many producers have a vested interest in making women feel disempowered in the face of sexual predators. An easily frightened or titillated audience is more likely to tune into salacious, hysterical reporting about crime epidemics, a type of reporting that is easier and cheaper than serious, responsible reporting. It’s more lucrative for broadcasters to scare their audience about the child rapist and murderers who live behind every bush than to offer sober advice about how to deter predators.

    Some deterrents are very simple: keeping an eye on one’s neighborhood and surroundings, frequenting areas that are well lit and heavily trafficked, fighting back against attackers (if possible), making some noise, calling out subway gropers (which apparently works wonders on the Rome Metro). As you mentioned, many predators are opportunists who don’t like being exposed.

  32. #32 |  random_guy | 

    Len, people can be traumatized from home burglary, does that then justify the death penalty for the burglars? A just society doesn’t punish people for things that could be conceivably worse than their actual crime.

    I know this is going to make me very unpopular, but people get over rape. The vast majority of the victims of child molestation, rape, and other similar abuses do indeed eventually get on with their lives. I’m not saying they “get over it” in some casual sense, trauma can and usually does stick with people for their whole lives, I’m just saying that rape is in no way equivalent of murder. It is possible to lead a healthy, happy, and productive life after rape, indeed rape recovery programs make this the core of their message.

    That said, rape is one of the most egregious violations of a person that can be preformed. But the honest to god rape that I’m talking about is rare and usually the work of serial offenders, who should be in prison for life. Lets also keep in mind that a lot of what our society labels “rape” is nothing more than fear-mongering. Statutory BS that gets teens fooling around in the back of a car on the sex offender registry. He-said she-said situations with no proof that arise from bad break ups and crazy people in general. On the other hand you have the very real systematic rape of men within our corrections system that society at large even refuses to address as a problem.

    So until our society comes up with an even semi-rational definition of rape, AND our criminal justice system magically finds away to never convict an innocent person of the crime, capital punishment for rape will continue to be a delusional revenge fantasy and nothing more.

  33. #33 |  Acksiom | 

    There should be no capital “punishment” at all because the agents of the State should never be allowed to do what the Citizens are not allowed to do. It’s just that simple.

    However, if rape really matters to you so much, why exactly aren’t you talking about (A) determining which people are most likely to be raped, (B) getting them firearms and the training to use them responsibly, and (C) rewarding them for carrying openly?

    Because, y’know, that would probably do a lot more good. Or are you one of those Pwethiouth Pwinthethth Pwiviwege types who want rape stopped. . .but only as long as someone else does the actual “stopping” for you?

  34. #34 |  Acksiom | 

    @Len

    >If the damage done to rape includes effects upon the personality of the victim, then conceivably rape could be worse than murder.

    How?

    You do realize that the “sometimes rape is worse that murder” meme inevitably and necessarily leads to the conclusion that we should therefore kill such particularly damaged victims, for their own good. . .right?

  35. #35 |  Robert H | 

    “Silly Dana. Don’t you know trolls don’t read?”

    Whats the matter, you cann’t tolerate someone with a different opinion without calling them names?

    I am a conservative, what some people would call a moderate conservative- you know like Joe Lieberman and other blue blood democrats and progressive republicans… the centrists… and I HATE Donald Trump. Probably for different reasons than you I am sure.

    Trump is a shark and built his empire on land grabbing, stealing land from little old ladies. Michelle Malkin, a well known conservative, wrote a scathing piece on this describing how Trump has used Eminent domain to build his properties his entire career. He is an ego maniac, and not a conservative with any real allegiance. He is an opportunist and a media whore. I agree he is a joke and he is not doing the republican party any favors. He is saying what some nutty people in the party are wanting to here and pandering to them while using controversy to gain media attention. Plain and simple. He does not have a chance in hell of getting the nomination

  36. #36 |  buzz | 

    “You don’t read this site much, do you Len?”
    So no dissenting viewpoints allowed here? How much do YOU read this site?

    “Silly Dana. Don’t you know trolls don’t read?”
    If your definition of a troll is “someone I disagree with”. Which is not the actual definition.

  37. #37 |  buzz | 

    “You do realize that the “sometimes rape is worse that murder” meme inevitably and necessarily leads to the conclusion that we should therefore kill such particularly damaged victims, for their own good. . .right?”

    If you use sophomoric logic, sure.

  38. #38 |  Acksiom | 

    I’m not sure what you point is, buzz, since it’s true regardless of what logic you use.

  39. #39 |  Manfred | 

    Thanks for sharing your view xenia onatopp. Sadly it looks like no other commenter saw it…

  40. #40 |  Acksiom | 

    No, we saw it.

    We just don’t want to engage in the sexist bigotry of treating her specially because she posted blatantly obvious common sense while identifying herself as female.

  41. #41 |  Dana Gower | 

    So, a Higgs Boson particle walks into a church. The priest says, “Higgs Boson particles aren’t allowed in here. The Higgs Boson particle says, “Then how do you have mass?”
    I just thought I’d lighten things up. (Yes, I’m a nerd.)
    No offense was meant by my first comment (@#6). I always enjoy reading the comments on here.

  42. #42 |  Nancy Lebovitz | 

    In re rape and trauma, reactions vary quite a bit. So far as I know, one of the factors is previous history of trauma.

    If In An Unspoken Voice is correct, a chance to recover afterwards and contact with kind people matters. It’s plausible that having good instincts about what one needs helps.

    The hard thing for most people in thinking about these issues is having more than one scenario be vividly imagined– there are people who take years to recover or don’t recover at all, and there are people who shake it off. And the details of the rape aren’t going to give you a guaranteed prediction of what the effects will be.

  43. #43 |  Nancy Lebovitz | 

    Good for Santana in laying the situation out so clearly.

  44. #44 |  Danny | 

    Juxtaposing the Central Park Jogger case with the Duke Lacrosse case provides one with the most pellucid spectrographic readout on the American criminal justice system that one could ever hope to obtain.

  45. #45 |  Pinandpuller | 

    Acksiom

    I was thinking along the same lines as you. What’s wrong with a vaginal castle doctrine?

    Anyone object to shooting people for nonconsensual intrusions?

  46. #46 |  Jerryskids | 

    Len is a troll. He wasn’t posting an opinion contrary to someone else’s opinion, he was simply posting a tautological statement designed to provoke a reaction. Had he wished to add something to the conversation, he might have pointed out how much he agrees with John Rawl in that a more equal/just society is a better society regardless of whether or not the members of that society desire equality/justice. The unspoken idea here is that Len gets to decide what constitutes a just society, regardless of anyone else’s opinion. We would all be equal, but some would be more equal than others.

    Mattocracy seems to be of the opinion that we can decide justice by majority opinion, that crimes can have an objectively “just” price. How is having Mattocracy and 50% of the rest of the population decide what is fair any better than having Len decide?

    My idea of a more just society would be one in which the State does not have a monopoly on the dispensation of justice. What is the proper punishment for raping someone? I would say that the victim should be allowed to set the price. If you go to certain areas of town with a hankering to engage in sex with strange women, you will find plenty of strange women that would be willing to negotiate the price of such activity with you. If you don’t ask the price beforehand, you forfeit the right to complain about the price afterward. And if your hankering extends to engaging in sex with strange women without their consent, it might be a very high price indeed.

    By the same token, if you go to Walmart to pick up a TV, the prices are clearly marked and you and Walmart are free to decide whether or not that is a just price, you are free to accept or decline the transaction. When you break into my house to steal my TV, you are unilaterally stating what price you think you will pay for the TV – you have no grounds to complain if I decide that the price you will pay is rather higher. And I can assure you that the price is going to be extremely high because you are not simply attempting to steal my property – I traded a part of my life for that TV and therefore you are attempting to steal a part of my life. If you have so little regard for my life that you can casually attempt to steal a part of it, I don’t have a problem showing no regard for your life. Which is why I think a fitting punishment for rape would be rape. If you have no problem raping someone just because you feel like it and you can, you shouldn’t have a problem with others doing the same to you.

    As far as the punishment for rape – nobody really goes to jail for harming someone else, they go to jail for breaking the State’s law against harming someone else. Absent a law to the contrary, you are free to harm other people and the State may not touch you. That is why it is the State rather than the individual who sets the price for committing a crime – your real crime was not in harming someone else, your real crime is that of disobeying the State. Which is also why the State can punish you for breaking rules the breaking of which do not harm anyone else. If we were to end the State’s monopoly on the dispensation of justice, it might be easier to demand that a criminal prosecution requires a plaintiff other than the State.

    And, oh yeah, Donald Trump is a troll. It is a sad commentary on the state of the ‘news’ industry that Donald Trump, Charlie Sheen and a royal wedding all get far more coverage than a serious discussion of say the ramifications of Wickard v. Filburn. The purveyors of infotainment claim to be giving the viewers what they want – hey, try imaging the ratings if CNN were to have NUDE! NUDE! NUDE! anchors and reporters. Wouldn’t that be giving the viewers what they want, too?

  47. #47 |  Meatless Meatball | 

    @RobertH (#35)

    I’m not a conservative, but I have a surprising number of friends who are Rockefeller Republican-style conservatives like you apparently are, and they’re over the moon angry about Trump’s media domination. However, they’re also crazy-scared because the fact is Trump stands as legitimate a chance as anyone else to win the nomination — and if not Trump, other brain-dead pseudo-populists like Palin or religious whackjobs like Huckabee. The only guy with a legitimate shot to the nomination who appeals to most of my conservative friends is Romney, and they (rightfully, I believe) don’t trust him because he’s got the personality of a snake-oil salesman and a flip-flopping record that makes John Kerry look downright principled in all walks of life. Most of them are now behind Gary Johnson, but I don’t think anyone is really taking him seriously, unfortunately — certainly, no one in Iowa or New Hampshire is.

    The Republican Party is in an abysmal state right now. Quite honestly, I’d like to see a split in the party to bring out actual conservatives with intellect as their weapon rather than populism. As it is, they’re content to use scare tactics the way Johnson did on Goldwater in ’64. It’s unfortunate, because the Democrats are atrocious, too — just sane by comparison.

  48. #48 |  Aresen | 

    @ xenia onatopp | April 29th, 2011 at 12:47 pm

    You are a strong, brave person. You have the courage to see beyond your personal experience to the larger picture.

    I salute you and wish you the best.

  49. #49 |  dogismyth | 

    Rape is an assault…not a capital crime. How ridiculous. I realize that rape is a demeaning and emotional nightmare for the victims and certainly results in physical harm. But assaults are not capital crimes. If we are going to make rape a capital crime, then let’s make abortion, putting a child up for adoption and sex outside of the marriage that results in an unwanted pregnancy also on the list of capital crimes.

  50. #50 |  EH | 

    This whole thread is ruined.

  51. #51 |  Donald Trump Would Have Executed Five Innocent Kids | Renaissance Post | 

    [...] to despise this deeply bigoted, overpromoted glorified confidence man, Radley Balko of The Agitator gives us another, reminding us that in 1989, Donald Trump took out a full-page ad in four New York City newspapers [...]

  52. #52 |  Donald Trump Presidential Run - Page 3 - MotownSports.com Message Board | 

    [...] When Donald Trump Didn’t Need Proof | The Agitator Quote: [...]

  53. #53 |  Emilyrose | 

    Actually Trump has made a total cake of himself.
    Jumping up and down for a birth certificate which has since been overwhelmingly denounced and shown to be a fake and just saying OK thats fine.
    What a shallow and useless big mouth he is.
    All noise and no substance like the so-called birth certificate itself.
    A joke.
    One wonders now where Trump actually stands. What he has done is help Obama out of a hole. Collusion or accident.

  54. #54 |  Poleer | 

    There are things far worse than death. Rape should be a capital offense. Sometimes death is easier than living with something for forty years.
    Executing 5 wrong out of a ten thousand is better than not executing at all.
    In a society packed with humans the way ours is, overpopulation leaves no other options.

  55. #55 |  croaker | 

    @6 Rape should be a capital crime. At the time and scene, preferably at the hands of the intended victim. More rapists getting shot (and hopefully killed) by their victims means less rapists.

    @46 Right on, man

    @47 Goldwater at least had the courage of his convictions, and in retrospect it turns out he was mostly correct

  56. #56 |  scottnjerzee | 

    I am a male that has survived being severely beaten and raped by multiple assailants when I was 13 years old. I can relate to the sentiment of just being happy to be alive and in one piece. However, there is permanent damage to my psyche. When you come through an experience like that, you can never go back to how you were. My ability to trust people, or just plain relax in a crowd of people is gone for good. From that day forward I never felt safe. I have a hard time letting anyone close to me. So far 6 years have passed. And as much as try to forget about it, it still is a big part of who I am, and what I have become.

  57. #57 |  Acksiom | 

    Scottnjerzee, once when I was a small boy, my mother forced me onto the filthy, disgusting floor of a old movie theater and put her foot on my neck to keep me there, because, and I quote, she was “ashamed to be seen with me.” There was plenty of other abuse too, up to and including, eventually, deadly assault.

    I suggest you find a good therapist out there in the Garden State who uses neuro-linguistic programming and get your psyche repaired. Been there, done that, worked for me.

    The only first step you need is to start telling yourself you can heal and improve rather than telling yourself you’re ruined for life. People with less intellectual and intestinal resources than you’ve already shown here have climbed out of deeper holes. Telling yourself that your ability to trust or relax around others is gone for good is just digging yourself deeper. Remember the zeroth rule of holes: don’t just stop digging, START CLIMBING OUT.

  58. #58 |  I was very excited to produce utilization of my Dsquared Jeans | Ladies Trousers | 

    [...] When Donald Trump Didn't Need Proof | The Agitator [...]

  59. #59 |  Manju | 

    @47 Goldwater at least had the courage of his convictions, and in retrospect it turns out he was mostly correct

    Did he? I lean libertarian so I’d be happy if you can correct me, but didn’t Goldwater run against Brown v Board?

    How does that pass the liberatarian smell test? I can understand a principled oppostion to Title VII of 64 cra but Goldwater opposed interference by the federal government in state affairs even when the state was violateing the Bill of Rights or the Equal Protection Clause.

    In what libertarian framework does States Rights take precedence over the unalienable rights of man? Sounds to me like he abondened his principles in order to secure the Jim Crow south.

  60. #60 |  mikeZZZZ | 

    So does anyone actually have the text of the ad?

    The articles I’ve seen that quote it at all (unlike this one) include the line “when they kill, they should be executed…” ( http://www.ny1.com/content/top_stories/?ArID=138192&r=8131524974 ) These kids were never accused of killing, so where did Trump say they should be executed?

    Clearly the ad was inspired by the jogging case and a general perception of a crime wave, and perhaps can be viewed as irresponsibly inflaming passions… but let’s not rush to accuse him of wanting to execute 14-year-olds if he never did.

  61. #61 |  Andy Hall | 

    I can’t read the print on the actual advertisement, but a story about the ads in the same May 1, 1989 issue of the NYT, by Lisa W. Foderaro. She writes:

    The full-page advertisements placed in four New York newspapers today by Donald J. Trump calling for reinstatement of the death penalty grew out of the real-estate developer’s ”deep-seated feeling that what’s happening in society today has to be stopped,” Mr. Trump said in a telephone interview Saturday.

    The $85,000 worth of ads, in The New York Times, The Daily News, The New York Post and New York Newsday, refer to the attack by a gang of youths on a woman jogger and others in Central Park on April 19. The 600-word appeal, signed Donald J. Trump, is titled ”Bring Back the Death Penalty. Bring Back Our Police!” The advertisement appears today on page A13 of The Times.

    In the advertisement, Mr. Trump says that Mayor Edward I. Koch ”has stated that hate and rancor should be removed from our hearts.”

    ”I want to hate these muggers and murderers,” Mr. Trump wrote. ”They should be forced to suffer and, when they kill, they should be executed for their crimes.”

    The woman has been in a coma in Metropolitan Hospital since the attack April 19. Six youths have been indicted on charges of attempted murder, rape, sodomy and assault in the case. Difference of Anger and Hatred

    ”We must not confuse tough punishment with hatred,” Mr. Koch responded in a statement read by an assistant press secretary, Larry Simonberg. ”I think he’s on the wrong track. He has a right to express his opinion. He’s expressing hatred and I’m expressing anger. There’s a big difference.”

    Is she correct? Did Trump call for the death penalty for those accused in this case, or only for perpetrators “when they kill?”

    The guy’s a ridiculous blowhard regardless, but if the 1989 article is correct, he’s a bit less draconian than claimed.

  62. #62 |  Open Thread And Link Farm: Carnival Barkers Edition | Alas, a Blog | 

    [...] In 1989, Trump took out a full-page ad calling for the execution of five black teenagers. All of whom turned out to be innocent. [...]

  63. #63 |  Trao | 

    When you have not suffered rape or molestation, you get to stay quiet about its effects and just how “easy” it is to get over. First because you don’t know, but also because any assumption of a survivor “getting over it,” even in a non-casual way, relies on the cultural myth that rape isn’t that big a deal and ends up harming survivors even more. Exactly no one gets to expect any measure of “recovery” from any survivor except the survivor zemself.

    Additionally, an argument for life imprisonment over the death penalty is not the best one you can make. I am not a supporter by any means of capital punishment, but imprisoning someone is a rights violation in and of itself – one that makes many more violations possible and more severe – and doesn’t sit well with anyone who doesn’t believe that “human life” (or even “life”), unqualified, can even be considered a value worth holding. I don’t think it’s acceptable to farm animals, for love’s sake; why would I consider it acceptable to imprison humans, either?

    The question of costs and punishment is also a distraction from the enormous ethical issues surrounding capitalism and civilization. Status quo is status quo, no matter how much of a human supremecist you are.

  64. #64 |  Acksiom | 

    No, Trao; we get to do whatever we want. Because we’re free and you have no absolutely no authority whatsoever over the rest of us to and in any degree, kind, shape, form, or other classification.

    So you can take your forced-sell guilt trip and shove it right up your stinky little fascist asshole.

  65. #65 |  Schala | 

    “Rapists should be strapped to a frame, and their victims allowed to whack them in the scrotum until the victim is tired. It that does for their reproductive equipment, oh dear.”

    They might not have been born with a scrotum, your hypothetical rapists.

    Funny how female on anyone rape is ignored, same as anyone on male. In many states and countries, males being raped is not legally counted as rape. Sometimes it’s sexual assault, sometimes not even that.

    And that’s reported instances. Because it’s common sense that a guy raped by a girl was just ‘lucky to score’, not actually wronged.

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