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Paying for Bad Cops
Wednesday, February 9th, 2011Over at Hit & Run, I have a post about the pension for the torturing cop case in Chicago, plus a couple other example of bad cops on the public dole.
20 Responses to “Paying for Bad Cops”
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The simplest remedy would be to end defined benefits pensions for public servants. Bad apples aside, the private sector has already discovered that it can’t afford such things. The public sector is still trying to fool the American public into ignoring the fact that these pensions are going to bankrupt their state governments.
Take the NYPD for instance. A guy could join the force at 22, retire at 42 (which is not a full pension, but which is something a lot of cops choose to take), and then live until they’re 82. They’ll work 20 years and collect a pension for 40 years — with cost of living adjustments.
Perhaps this is further evidence that our country’s education system is a mess. The math I just described ought to be simple enough to worry anyone.
This is the price we pay for our freedom and security. Otherwise we’d be living in Somalia.
Atlanta PD says they’ll shut down the “Red Dog” squad which has caused so much misery throughout the years:
http://www.ajc.com/news/
Sorry bout that:
http://www.ajc.com/news/atlanta/no-red-dog-could-831804.html
Notice in the story that every time the citizens’ review board sustains a complaint against an officer, the PD rejects the finding and recommendation.
I have one question; does the law permit his employers to take away his pension? If not, then perhaps that’s something we should lobby to see fixed, but let’s not encourage the State to govern by momentary expediency any more than it already does.
If the Law and the Contract under which he was hired say his pension can’t be touched, then pay him his damn pension …. and then get rid of the spineless worms who negotiated that pension and wrote that law.
Mario, in the military you can retire after twenty years and you are vested for a pension. But you cannot start collecting it until you reach retirement age (I think that is sixty).
Can a NYPD officer start collecting his or her pension the day after retiring (at say 45)?
Pensions need to pencil. That means the paying in has to cover the reasonable anticipated actuarial paying out. Including scams like wracking up overtime in the last few years to bump up pension output. I do not care who is paying in (be it the state or the individual or both) but those payments in should be the basis for the pension coming out. Not additional money paid in later on to fill in gaps that should have been anticipated.
I apologize for the threadjack but this may bring your blood pressure down:
http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/features_orlando/2011/02/a-funny-thing-happened-at-universals-family-feud.html
Host asks question: Something that gets passed around?
First Answer: A joint
Second Answer: The collection plate at church
Guess which one scored higher?
To CyniCAL it is because of these thugs in uniform that this country IS becoming Somalia. The law at all levels and for all people must be equal for this country to be free. These predators should be in prison and NOT collecting pensions. Their blatant disregard for the people they are suppose to protect is appalling as is your naivet`e or is it just a courtesy to a fellow tax feeder.
As tastefulness as it sometimes is, the city can’t take away pension because it’s not the city’s to take away. A pension isn’t a bonus for a career well done. The pension is the worker’s money. Or to put is somewhat awkwardly: You can’t not give something to somebody that isn’t yours to begin with.
The money is a pension is s part of the contract. It’s like pay. If you want to take somebody’s money, you can do it through the courts. But it’s not something you boss can or should be able to take away. If government could take away your pension… pensions would be pretty worthless.
Don’t blame the workers (first of all, we should wish we could all be so lucky). If the gig is so good, go on and become a police officer.
And Joe, yes, generally NYPD (and all city workers) get their pension from the day they retire. The city usually likes the plan because by their logic it’s cheaper to have people retire early and hire new workers at less pay than pay the experienced people more money. I should point out that the pension usually is not enough to live on, since it’s almost always a huge pay cut. (In New York it’s based on a system where it’s basically half of your average pay over the last three years.)
(I meant *distasteful*)
Radley, maybe you can delete the above two posts (and this one). I’ll try again, typo free.
As distastefulness as it sometimes is, the city can’t take away a pension because it’s not the city’s to take away. A pension isn’t a bonus for a career well done. The pension is the worker’s money. Or to put it somewhat awkwardly: You can’t not give something to somebody that isn’t yours to begin with.
The money in a pension is part of the contract. It’s like pay. If you want to take somebody’s money, you can do it through the courts. But it’s not something you boss can or should be able to take away after the fact. If the government could take away your pension… pensions would be pretty worthless.
And don’t blame the workers (first of all, we should wish we could all be so lucky). If the gig is so good, go on and become a police officer.
And yes, Joe, generally NYPD (and all police–hell, all city workers) get their pension from the day they retire. The city usually likes the plan because by their logic it’s cheaper to have people retire early and hire new workers at less pay than pay the experienced people more money. I should point out that the pension usually is not enough to live on, since it’s almost always a huge pay cut. (In New York it’s based on a system where it’s basically half of your average pay over the last three years.)
#8,
I believe the Somalia reference was sarcastic and a subtle statement that every idiotshit(TM) yells “Somalia” every time an anarchist makes a comment about a state abuse. Revealing a lack of knowledge about anarchism and Somalia.
[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Walter Olson, Gangsters In Blue. Gangsters In Blue said: gangstersinblue.org: Paying for Bad Cops http://bit.ly/g0WDA7 [...]
Mario, you forgot that most of them then go to work at another public job, get paid full wages and get to collect a second pension! It’s know as double dipping and it is very very popular with 40 & 50 somethings in public work.
ktc2, saw that flick yesterday. Funny as hell that the joint was there and above the church platter. answers 7&8. I wonder what # the “girlfriend” placed?
I can only hope that members of that civil service panel become the next victims of their hero!
Of course it varies state by state, but at least in New York, police cannot get full time jobs when the paycheck comes from the state (the so-called “double dip”). Well, they can, but if they do, their income is taken out of their pension. So they usually don’t.
This is unfortunate, because it means that qualified retired police officers, for instance, won’t become tenure-track teachers at the state’s public universities (like the one I teach at). Their skills and work experience would be extremely welcome in criminal justice programs.
This is a loss to our students. And yet the state saves no money, since other people will fill these positions. The worthy teachers, with years of experience they could bring to the classroom, simple take jobs at colleges in neighboring states.
Responses to moskos:
1. At least to the extent pensions still exist in the private sector, they can be taken away for bad behavior. No reason public pension contracts couldn’t have been written this way.
2. Contracts that are contrary to public interest (such as contracts that encourage or facilitate criminal behavior) are void. No good. Not enforceable. Nada. To the extent that policemen’s pensions are not contingent on good policeman behavior, the contract is contrary to public interest and should not be honored.
3. The “go out and become a policeman” argument is silly. Either you will be brainwashed by the police department and lose your ability to think critically about policemen in under a year, or else, if you are not brainwashable (and some people aren’t), then you will be weeded out.
4. The best answer is that there should be drastically less policemen and they should not have pensions. Some would suffer economically if this happened, but the benefits to other law-abiding taxpayers would offset the losses comfortably.
Joe – If you retire from active duty you start drawing your pension right away, only if you retire from the reserves do you have to wait until 60.
#8 | derfel cadarn — ” your naivet`e”
My bad, I forgot my /sarcasm tag. But then again, I thought I was well-known around these parts ….
Methinks that your spellchecker has a penchant for the word “pension”.