Sunday Links

Sunday, January 16th, 2011
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82 Responses to “Sunday Links”

  1. #1 |  Marty | 

    I was gonna say something about death and taxes and babies, but everything just sounds dumb. Condolences to the family- they sound like wonderful people.

  2. #2 |  edmund dantes | 

    I kind of wonder what the hell this guy is doing out in public at this point. He just saw several people murdered right in front of him. I got to question the people that allowed to be out and participating in a political forum like this so soon after that attack.

  3. #3 |  Tom | 

    The comments on that death tax story are astonishing. They blame the parents for bringing a child into the world. Either they have a painfully funny sense of humor or they are heartless and mindless assholes.

  4. #4 |  Len | 

    “I don’t really know what to make of this.”

    Your journey to center-right libertarianism has begun.

  5. #5 |  Leah | 

    #3 – The internet thinks it can do a better job of decisionmaking no matter what decisions parents make. It doesn’t really matter if it’s about abortion or pregnancy or birth or infant care or toddler discipline or school-age kids or teens. Whatever you do, internet commenters will find you wrong and stupid. (I have been on a comment-section-fast for a while now from most places except here and a few others, honestly – it’s too rage inducing once you’re actually parenting yourself.)

  6. #6 |  The Mossy Spaniard | 

    That “Fox responsible for another shooting” thing…I see what you did there.

  7. #7 |  Standard Mischief | 

    I gotta wonder out loud if the Pima County Sheriff’s Department is only _now_ taking death threats seriously.

    Someone accused Jared Lee Loughner of making dozens of threats to many people before he carried one of them out. Since his mom worked for the county, he was never charged. No verification of that AFAIK.

  8. #8 |  Mattocracy | 

    I want a tiny mammoth. Can they genetically engineer a 50 lbs version of it so I can keep it in my yard?

  9. #9 |  Buddy Hinton | 

    here is an interesting legal case that just came out:

    http://www.leagle.com/xmlResult.aspx?xmldoc=In%20FCO%2020110111068.xml&docbase=CSLWAR3-2007-CURR

  10. #10 |  Chuchundra | 

    The family in the “death tax” story sounds seriously crazy pants. They incur thousands or tens of thousands of dollars in medical costs to bring a child into the world that they knew would live for a very brief time, but what really pisses them off is a fifty dollar fee for an autopsy because they consider that to be “unnecessary”.

    What kind of people go to the news with a story like this and what kind of news organization actually writes about it?

  11. #11 |  Dave Krueger | 

    Maryland man says he was pepper sprayed, arrested after trying to videotape a police officer on public property.

    This is only vaguely related to this, but when we consider that cops in Maryland believe they have greater privacy rights than citizens, it becomes pretty clear that government officials actually believe that they operate under a different set of rules from anyone else. I don’t think there is much doubt that they consider themselves the ruling class.

    Harvey Silverglate points out in his book, “Three Felonies a Day”, that cops can lie through their teeth to trick you into saying something that gives them a reason to prosecute you, but if you lie, you are very likely going to face prosecution for it (obstruction, lying under oath, lying while not under oath, etc). Shouldn’t the public be throwing a fit over that?

    The laws are so stacked in favor of law enforcement and prosecutors that that I can’t believe the laws regarding the video recording of cops will ever be settled in favor of citizens. Recording cops poses an immeasurable threat to their power, which relies heavily on their ability to describe events in a way that favors prosecution. Lying and cover-ups have become so second nature to cops that they probably don’t even know they’re doing it. I honestly don’t think most cops even know how much of a threat video camera are to their way of life. They will eventually, though.

  12. #12 |  croaker | 

    @9 So the bottom line is, the cops were wrong to kick in the door, but once they did so acting like gestapo stormtroopers is just fine and dandy.

  13. #13 |  nospam | 

    #7: Yeah, I loved how the media and pundits still have a hard on to blame everyone except the cops who were warned many times that this guy was making death threats. The first tip off was how quick and shamelessly the donut-choking sheriff was to politicize the situation. Looking at it now, it’s pretty fucking obvious that he was deflecting the blame away from where it really belonged.

  14. #14 |  ktc2 | 

    That’s a good point Dave. These cops are probably so out of touch with reality that they don’t see what they do as lying or cover-ups. They probably consider themselves heroes “bending the rules” and doing what’s necessary to lock-up the bad guys. The fact that there’s no actual evidence that they are bad guys beyond the lies and cover-up doesn’t seem to register with them at all.

  15. #15 |  Dave Krueger | 

    By the way, I think that Maryland story exemplifies how the two main parties use the law to shut out other parties. That is also a case of the ruling class shutting down any challenge to its power.

    When is the tea party, supposedly so libertarian and so fed up with the two main parties, going to demand that obstructions to third parties be eliminated? My guess? Never.

  16. #16 |  Radley Balko | 

    The family in the “death tax” story sounds seriously crazy pants.

    Classy.

  17. #17 |  pris | 

    There is enough blame to go around in the Jared Loughner issue. Who will be the next person to stop someone who is seemingly acting in an abnormal manner? Most mentally ill people do not become violent and certainly most do not become a mass murderer. Tell me what the police were supposed to do? No laws broken, a man acting strangely. You can commit someone to a mental institution, involuntarily, for only 3 days. Tell me what you would do in this situation?

  18. #18 |  nospam | 

    “Tell me what the police were supposed to do? No laws broken, a man acting strangely. You can commit someone to a mental institution, involuntarily, for only 3 days.”

    Seriously?! How about, oh, I don’t know, how about doing their fucking jobs! “Gee, we’ve been getting lots of calls from people saying this guy is threatening to kill people…what should we do? Quick, get some more donuts! Maybe we can beat the hell out of someone on a traffic stop on the way!”

    And the “only 3 days” part, tell me how many days did they lock him up after making a bunch of death threats? Was it 3? Was it 2? Was it 1? How about a much rounder number…0!

  19. #19 |  Chuchundra | 

    Radley, what would you call a family that has just experienced the death of their newborn child and decides to go to the news to complain about a fifty dollar autopsy fee? Calling them crazy is being generous.

  20. #20 |  Stormy Dragon | 

    Who’s the idiot at ABC News who thought it would be a good idea to put the shooting victims and a bunch of Tea Party people in the same room a week after the shooting?

  21. #21 |  MacGregory | 

    Open mindedness went away with $3 on the keg and dollar joints. I long for that America. “My way or the highway” truth be wayside. For us or against us? What a dumb-ass attitude LEOs take.

  22. #22 |  Stories: One of No Consequence, Another of Great | Truth and Justice For All | 

    [...] checking my usual morning news sources for something new that merited posting.  There was an item reported by Radley Balko from Tucson’s KGUN-Channel 9, reporting on the This Week show, which had been taped earlier [...]

  23. #23 |  karl | 

    I didn’t know what to make of Fuller’s “death threat” either. My first impression was that he was showing how easy it is to shoot someone — just as easy as taking his picture. (Wasn’t there a political assassination with a gun hidden in a camera about a hundred years ago?)

    Without film to hear his tone and see his gestures it’s hard to know exactly what he meant. I’d like to give Fuller the benefit of the doubt, but if he really threatened the guy then some action was needed to get him cooled down at the very least.

    And as for involuntary commitment, that’s a very slippery slope we may be sliding down all too quickly.

  24. #24 |  Joe | 

    “Fox responsible for another shooting.”

    Funny.

  25. #25 |  Joe | 

    #19 | Chuchundra | January 16th, 2011 at 11:51 am
    Radley, what would you call a family that has just experienced the death of their newborn child and decides to go to the news to complain about a fifty dollar autopsy fee? Calling them crazy is being generous.

    The family are complaining on why would the County go and autospy a baby where it was patently clear why the baby died. The $50 fee on the invoice is what brought their attention to it, but did not appear to be the motivation of their complaint.

  26. #26 |  Radley Balko | 

    Radley, what would you call a family that has just experienced the death of their newborn child and decides to go to the news to complain about a fifty dollar autopsy fee?

    I’d call them a family justifiably pissed off that the government would charge them $50 for having a dead child.

    And I’d call someone who judges them for that pretty classless.

  27. #27 |  Joe | 

    One of the victims of the Tucson shootings issues death threat to a Tea Party leader. I don’t really know what to make of this. Other than that it’s sad.

    A senseless murder, then slandering of the right for something it had nothing to do with, and now this?

    Sad yes. But there is more going on here than just a victim suffering from post traumatic stress. Jeff Goldstein notes this:

    I eagerly await the breathless reports from CBS, NBC, CNN, and MSNBC that tells us how Sarah Palin’s “eliminationist rhetoric” led to the Loughner shooting, which led to the wounding that directly led to a death threat issued by a member of the left against a TEA Party leader whose crime seems to be his connection with the violent eliminationist rhetoric the left is so bravely fighting against.

    By, you know, issuing death threats.

    These people are who we knew them to be. And it’s been great to watch them try to hang themselves. Now, if only the establishment GOP will stop rushing over to cut the rope.

  28. #28 |  Joe | 

    Radley, while you post thread below shows that some on the right have not corrected the facts, the continuing slandering of the right by the left, by those pundits and pols trying to take advantage of a senseless shooting by someone with mental illness (not a political ax to grind), is infuriating.

  29. #29 |  CyniCAl | 

    The mistake in the baby death tax is that the family took it personally.

    What if one of my parents died of cancer and the county hit me with the death tax? Why should my pain be less than that family’s?

    There is no way for government to have a law mandating the investigation of every death and then make exceptions to it.

    The law is the law. I’ve been told a million times here that if you don’t like a law, work to change it. But just like voting for a losing candidate sanctifies the system, so does adhering to all laws whether one agrees with them or not. You either subscribe to the system lock, stock and barrel or you don’t.

    What are you people, a bunch of anarchists or something? Selective anarchists???

  30. #30 |  Dave Krueger | 

    And one more thing…

    What is it about tasers and pepper spray that makes cops think they can whip those out and use them for the smallest of infractions? I guess, in their tiny little minds, we should all be happy when they show superhuman restraint and don’t just blow some backtalker away.

    You know the old saying, “use it or lose it”? Apparently that’s what has happened with cops and people skills. They don’t have the self control of a third grader out on the playground at recess.

    Do schools even have recess anymore?

  31. #31 |  Dave Krueger | 

    To answer my own question, I asked my wife who is a public elementary school teacher. She says they don’t have recess anymore because kids don’t seem to have anymore self control than cops.

  32. #32 |  Dave | 

    #10 chuchundra:”The family in the “death tax” story sounds seriously crazy pants (sic). They incur thousands or tens of thousands of dollars in medical costs to bring a child into the world that they knew would live for a very brief time, but what really pisses them off is a fifty dollar fee for an autopsy because they consider that to be “unnecessary”.”

    The family is justifiably upset at having to pay for something they do not need or want.

    Quoting from the article:
    “The reason we do that is to make sure no one goes to the crematorium or to their grave without society and the family knowing exactly how their loved one died,” says Gareth Johnson, King County Prevention Division Manager.

    They KNOW the cause of death.
    Your anger at the family is puzzling.
    There are so many things that you could have justifiable anger at, why waste it on a grieving family?

  33. #33 |  Leon Wolfeson | 

    Dave Kruegar – That’s my essential objection to Tasers. They’re not used as a replacement for lethal force, but as a replacement for – often – verbal warnings. (Also, I object to the Taser marketing which paints them as being essentially safe to use)

    There’s a reason there has been a good deal of resistance (from police, as much as anyone else, to give them credit) to non-firearms officers having them in the UK…

  34. #34 |  Marty | 

    ‘Your anger at the family is puzzling.
    There are so many things that you could have justifiable anger at, why waste it on a grieving family?’

    well said- it looks like he’s trolling. especially after he tries to justify his original position. I re-read it and all I can think is ‘what the fuck is wrong with people?’

  35. #35 |  Joe | 

    The law is the law. I’ve been told a million times here that if you don’t like a law, work to change it.

    Okay. Isn’t complaining about a law you disagree with the first step? You are the one who called them crazy. Maybe you support statist King County’s rules and regulations. If that is your position, fair enough, but that someone disagrees does not make them crazy. Some of us get why this family is upset.

  36. #36 |  mannie | 

    # #17 | pris |

    Tell me what the police were supposed to do? No laws broken, a man acting strangely. You can commit someone to a mental institution, involuntarily, for only 3 days. Tell me what you would do in this situation?

    This is a real dilemma. I believe we have become too lax in policing up the lunatics, but don’t know where I would draw the line, nor where it should be drawn. This is always a judgment call. Right now, the PC judgment is to be very lax.

    But let’s turn it around. The cops start policing up people who act creepy, commit them for three days in the loony bin “for observation”, and ruin their lives. I can hear the outcry from this board already.

    Oh, but they must find the right line, the sweet spot! When has the gummint ever succeeded at that?

    Most of us, here, kinda want less gummint intervention in our lives. If you want more gummint, be careful what you ask for. You just might get it.

  37. #37 |  mannie | 

    Fox responsible for another shooting.

    Turn about is fair play. :-)

  38. #38 |  Joe | 

    72 hour detentions could and can definitely be abused, but they are also justified at times. As contemptable as Fuller’s comments were, I am not sure OTT politically motivated speech alone should “trigger” it. But Fuller
    s comment and actions were explicit enough to be construed as a death threat (even if the chances of him acting on it are low). And given the recent events in Tucson and the acquisations that the sheriff’s office was lax in going after Loughner, Fuller gets to spend his extended weekend speaking with mental health providers.

  39. #39 |  Joe | 

    Excuse me Cynical, my bad. Chuchundra called the family crazy. Not you.

    But as an old school anarchist, who fled the nanny state of New Jersey, I would assume you would get where this family is coming from. Then again, you fled New Jersey for California, which is understandable on the basis of weather and women, but a push on nannystatism.

  40. #40 |  Joe | 

    Maryland seems to have a problem with the Constitution, specifically: The right to petition government for redress of grievances is the right to make a complaint to, or seek the assistance of, one’s government, without fear of punishment or reprisals.

    Maryland also seems to have issues with the first amendment.

  41. #41 |  Bambam | 

    @11, read my post here
    http://www.theagitator.com/2011/01/15/another-pain-doctor-raided/#comment-545701

  42. #42 |  Bambam | 

    @20, do you think that ABC didn’t want the outcome they got? It makes for “good tv” and furthers the agenda of gun control and socialism to portray Tea Party types as gun slingin Yosemite Sam. Yes, I submit that all media are tools in the toolbox of the tyrants to control the unquestioning idiot masses.

  43. #43 |  Bambam | 

    #32, I would label it principles. The parents of the dead baby are understandably pissed off because a PRINCIPLE was violated. It matters not the “charge” for a “service” that they didn’t need or want is immaterial.

  44. #44 |  Episiarch | 

    All of you who are calling for people to be locked up involuntarily for 72 hours because their behavior is “strange” are showing your authoritarian colors. If you don’t think this would be abused beyond belief, you are either naive or just don’t care.

    A crazy dude did a crazy thing. Your moronic hindsight armchair quarterbacking is just sad.

  45. #45 |  nospam | 

    “All of you who are calling for people to be locked up involuntarily for 72 hours because their behavior is “strange” are showing your authoritarian colors.”

    For acting “strange,” no. But when the cops are getting many calls from many people saying “Hey, this guy is threatening to kill people” then maybe it might be worth it to pull a cop off of his revenue enhancement duties to check out Captain Squirrel-Bait.

    The point is, the cops knew about this guy well in advance. They had the “tools” (God, I hate that term) to intervene and refused to do so. Now the chief pig in the county is doing everything in his power to shift the blame and the media is more than happy to help.

  46. #46 |  Dave Krueger | 

    I have to agree with the concerns about locking people based on an assessment from a psychiatrist. If there’s anything clear about psychiatry its that their idea of what constitutes a disorder is both fluid and subject to social and political pressure. Today’s psychiatric truths are tomorrow’s myths. Furthermore, you can’t get any two shrinks to agree on a diagnosis. Rich people simply get an independent psychiatrist to testify that they are sane, while indigents are basically screwed.

    Locking someone up based on a psychological evaluation institutionalizes two concepts that should have no place in our justice system:

    1. It’s acceptable to lock someone up for a crime they haven’t committed yet.

    2. Better that we lock up ten innocents than let one potential criminal go free.

    Threats can largely be addressed with normal legal procedures without psychiatric quackery. And I haven’t even mentioned the slippery slope argument.

  47. #47 |  Episiarch | 

    They had the “tools” (God, I hate that term) to intervene and refused to do so

    And you continue to persist in your belief that crazy, senseless things can be prevented if just the right steps are taken. Bullshit.

    I detest the police, but blaming them for not doing something horribly antithetical to liberty is fucking retarded.

    Horrible and pointless stuff happens and there’s nothing you can do about it. If you can’t understand that, well, too fucking bad because you’re going to have a tough time with the world.

  48. #48 |  Joe | 

    All of you who are calling for people to be locked up involuntarily for 72 hours because their behavior is “strange” are showing your authoritarian colors. If you don’t think this would be abused beyond belief, you are either naive or just don’t care.

    I hope you are not including me in that. I agree, a 72 hour detention can and is abused. There are also people who are dangerous, acting insane, and given the available options a 72 hour detention is a remedy that should be available. But I agree it should be used sparingly.

    As far as Fuller goes, he was in the wrong place at the wrong time to be pointing a camera followed by saying “You’re dead.” As much as I disagree with what Fuller said, I am not justifying his detention. But given the current situation in Tucson, and the petty behavior of the Sheriff of that County, it is not that surprising.

  49. #49 |  Joe | 

    Horrible and pointless stuff happens and there’s nothing you can do about it.

    I think Palin, Levin, and Limbaugh might agree with you on that. They had nothing to do with what happened in Arizona, but were blamed for it.

  50. #50 |  Episiarch | 

    I hope you are not including me in that.

    Oh, I was.

    a 72 hour detention is a remedy that should be available. But I agree it should be used sparingly

    Right, just like Tasers and pepper spray are used sparingly.

    I think Palin, Levin, and Limbaugh might agree with you on that. They had nothing to do with what happened in Arizona, but were blamed for it.

    Wow, you are just another partisan scumbag. I talk about people being gunned down out of the blue, and you equate their families’ suffering with your TEAM RED cheerleaders. Amazing. Maybe partisanship should be classified as a mental health disorder (that’s a joke just in case you are humor impaired).

  51. #51 |  nospam | 

    “And you continue to persist in your belief that crazy, senseless things can be prevented if just the right steps are taken. Bullshit.”

    Jesus H Christ. The pigs are actively blaming people who had nothing to do with this when they knew about the head case and did nothing. Fuck, they didn’t even try and instead are pointing fingers and asking for more laws instead. I’m pointing out their hypocrisy.

  52. #52 |  Big Texan | 

    On the Fox story, and I can’t believe no has said it yet. Rule #2, Double Tap

  53. #53 |  Joe | 

    Wow, you are just another partisan scumbag. I talk about people being gunned down out of the blue, and you equate their families’ suffering with your TEAM RED cheerleaders.

    As if anyone pol or pundit on the right thought was Loughner did was good. We were all horrified by it. And obviously a famly suffering the lost of a loved one is far worse than being falsely accused in the media. Another false statement from you. Nevertheless, I do not appreicate is when liars like you try to make political hay from such a horrible crime and blame people who had NOTHING to do with with a murder in Tucson, Arizona. If you disagree with their politics, fine. But do not lie about them. Partisan scumbag? That would be you Espiarch.

  54. #54 |  Bambam | 

    “Psychological evaluation” has been used by many tyrants as a tool to lock up those whose ideas do not agree with the regime. There are legitimate times to evaluate someone, but this country also has a long and sordid history of using this tactic for the wrong moral purposes. With the current state of affairs, everyone afraid of their shadow, police more than willing to KILL you for not prostrating them — I predict we will see a sharp increase in “psych eval holds” on people that have done nothing wrong, but were “evaluated” because someone got “spooked” – meaning people will use it as a tool of revenge because those that carry the act out have no obligation to determine if it’s a legitimate concern because there are no consequences. “Hey, we can’t be too safe.” “Do it for the children.” “Just doing my job and enforcing the law, I have no responsibility to judge the morality of my actions”.

  55. #55 |  Episiarch | 

    I do not appreicate is when liars like you try to make political hay from such a horrible crime and blame people who had NOTHING to do with with a murder in Tucson

    I never did, you partisan moron. You’re so caught up in your TEAM RED TEAM BLUE bullshit that if I criticize you, I must be on the other TEAM, right? Partisanship doesn’t just make you stupid; it makes you amazingly fucking stupid.

    Partisan scumbag? That would be you Espiarch.

    Fucking projection; how does it work?

  56. #56 |  Paulie | 

    Regarding the last item see
    Maryland Greens and Libertarians hand in signatures; petitioners harassed, one arrested at public library http://bit.ly/eYA0Ot

  57. #57 |  Joe | 

    Episiarch, what ever team you think you are one really does not matter, you are partisan and your own words show that. You are also arguing in bad faith. You discredit any group you claim to belong too.

  58. #58 |  Episiarch | 

    you are partisan and your own words show that

    Your squirming amuses me, partisan. It is the inevitable fallback of every rabid partisan I’ve ever encountered, when it is pointed out to them that they are rabid partisans, to become Towelie and say “you’re a towel partisan!”

    And the best part is you don’t even seem to understand how pathetic that is.

  59. #59 |  Helmut O' Hooligan | 

    RE: Tuscon death threat story:

    “Fuller took a picture of Humphries, and said, ‘You’re dead’.”

    It is very sad. The charges are appropriate though. Case closed. He made a death threat to a specific person and emphasized his seriousness by taking a photograph of that person. The person he directed the threat to no doubt had reason to fear that he might be subjected to death or great bodily harm. That sucks, but Mr. Fuller need to understand that more threats and more death are not going to improve the situation in this country. If he doesn’t believe that, he should ask average citizens in Gaza or Belfast how a continual cycle of violence and retaliatory violence works out for a community or country.

  60. #60 |  Marty | 

    #58 | Episiarch

    ever consider decaf?

  61. #61 |  Episiarch | 

    Do you have a point, Marty?

  62. #62 |  ktc2 | 

    RE: PSYCHIATRY

    To paraphrase something I heard once:

    The world’s greatest psychiatrist poking around in your mind is as accurate as your corner mechanic poking around under the hood of your car, if the mechanic were blindfolded with one hand tied behind his back and a large foam #1 sports fan finger taped on his free hand.

  63. #63 |  luvzbob | 

    …the continuing slandering of the right by the left,…

    Or the bigger continuing slandering of the left by falsely claiming they are slandering the right.

  64. #64 |  Marty | 

    you just seem a little excitable…

  65. #65 |  Episiarch | 

    So, no point. Got it.

  66. #66 |  Paulie | 

    Andy posted this in the IPR thread

    http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2011/01/maryland-greens-and-libertarians-hand-in-signatures-petitioners-harassed-one-arrested-at-public-library/

    “There was another court ruling in Maryland which backed up free speech activities at public venues, that is Acorn vs. the Maryland Transit Authority (or MTA). Acorn is a group that does voter registration drives and their people were being run out of Maryland transit stops by the police and MTA workers. So they sued the MTA. The ACLU of Maryland took their case and they ended up winning.

    There was also a case out of Nebraska called Groene vs. Seng which I testified in (in the form of a written deposition) that was decided in federal court. Our side (the petition circulators) won that case, and the court ruling specifically mentions libraries as being fair game for petition signature gathering.

    Given that their were two relavent court rulings out of Maryland, plus the US Supreme Court ruling mentioned above and the federal court ruling Groene vs. Seng, and also considering that the Deputy Executive Director of the Howard County library system had already acknowledged that we had a legal right to be there, I figured that this issue had already been decided in our favor.

    This is why I said that I’d wait and talk to the police. I figured that talking to them would clear things up. The police had no interest in listening to anything that I had to say or in reading the papers that I had or in even bothering to call their headquarters so they could look into anything that I had to say. These two police officers were highly unprofessional. The proper police procedure is that they are supposed to do an investigation. If these police officers had been doing their jobs properly they would have investigated what I had to say and they would have also observed me gathering signatures to see if I was actually doing anything wrong. They did not bother to do either. An attorney that I spoke to said that these police officers cleraly did not follow proper procedures.

    I clearly told them that I was going to leave (even though they had no legal or moral right to tell me that I had to do this) but I told them that I wanted to have some documentation of them telling me that I had to leave so that I could present it to an attorney if necessary. Since they did not give me anything in writing telling me that I had to leave I told them that I wanted to record them on the video camera on my cell phone telling me that I had to leave and that I would leave after that.

    It was AFTER I started trying to record them telling me that I had to leave that the police Sargent tried to rip the phone out of my hand. I held on to my phone because I did not want it to get smashed (it would have cost me over $100 to replace) and I tried to get it back in my phone case and just as I got it back in its case the police Sargent sprayed pepper spray in my eyes.

    The actions of the two police officers and the librarian were blatantly unconstitutional. They should all be fired from their jobs. I’m going to fight this charge and I’m going to pursue legal action against them.”

  67. #67 |  Joe | 

    Episiarch, I assume you are a partisan. A partisan only means you take a position on something. Nothing wrong with that. You may call yourself libertarian, but your arguments seem to lean to the left. Whatever. You are entitled to whatever view you want to argue. You can be a partisan without lying about those who disagree with you. When you do lie, or support those who do, don’t be surprised if we call you on it.

  68. #68 |  Gideon Darrow | 

    Court Rejects Claim of a First Amendment Right to Audio-Record Police Officers:

    http://volokh.com/2011/01/14/court-rejects-claim-of-a-first-amendment-right-to-audio-record-police-officers/

  69. #69 |  Joe | 

    #63 | luvzbob | January 16th, 2011 at 6:50 pm
    …the continuing slandering of the right by the left,…

    Or the bigger continuing slandering of the left by falsely claiming they are slandering the right.

    Oh really. How did Limbaugh, Palin and Levin motivate Jason Loughner? Do you have any evidence of that?

  70. #70 |  Dave Krueger | 

    #68 Gideon Darrow

    Court Rejects Claim of a First Amendment Right to Audio-Record Police Officers

    So, does this mean that the press no longer has the right to film and record officers in the process of reporting the news in Illinois?

    If this holds up, I guaran-goddamn-ty you that all 50 states will outlaw recording the cops.

  71. #71 |  ktc2 | 

    Well, they have to don’t they?

    It’s the only way the status quo can continue.

  72. #72 |  CyniCAl | 

    #35 | Joe | January 16th, 2011 at 1:42 pm
    CyniCAl: “The law is the law. I’ve been told a million times here that if you don’t like a law, work to change it.”

    Joe: “Okay. Isn’t complaining about a law you disagree with the first step? You are the one who called them crazy. Maybe you support statist King County’s rules and regulations. If that is your position, fair enough, but that someone disagrees does not make them crazy. Some of us get why this family is upset.”

    Complaining is not the same thing as working to change something. And you have me confused with someone else — I never wrote that I thought the family was crazy. Take it back, sir.

  73. #73 |  CyniCAl | 

    Saw your retraction at #39, Joe. Thank you.

  74. #74 |  CyniCAl | 

    Of course I get it Joe, I forgot to put the sarcasm href tags. My point was that being for the State, for whatever miniscue law and order it provides, removes the moral standing to criticize it — one cannot pick and choose, it’s a package deal.

    With the “security” one gets wrong-door raids, intrusive nanny-statism, wholesale civil liberties violations, rampant taxation, and on and on and on. There’s no such thing as a minarchy. One cannot pick and choose. The only way to rein in the beast of the State is to starve it — of attention, of funding, of legitimacy, by walking away from it and living a non-violent life.

  75. #75 |  CyniCAl | 

    #68 | Gideon Darrow | January 16th, 2011 at 9:17 pm
    Court Rejects Claim of a First Amendment Right to Audio-Record Police Officers:

    On first reading, and IANAL, it appears that people who interact directly with police officers in Illinois may still have standing to challenge the state law against wiretapping, but not a 3rd-party such as the ACLU. That leaves the door open to overturn the law.

  76. #76 |  Joe | 

    Cynical, less is more.

    I am not a complete anarchist like you, so yeah I am a pick and chooser. The state can be a beast, so can the mob. But to the extent we have a state, I would assume it be as small as possible.

    But if the world was full of people like you we might be able to pull it off anarchy. Unfortunately not all are like you.

  77. #77 |  CyniCAl | 

    Thanks for your confidence in me Joe. I wish you and all who believe that they can blunt State power the best. Romanticism is a uniquely human quality — no other living creature exhibits it to my knowledge. Keep trying.

    Years ago, and it has been years, I wouldn’t have believed that The Agitator could be effective in shining such a potent public light on police abuse, and now it is mildly encouraging. But it is important to know that for every attack against it, moderately successful or otherwise, the dynamic State has virtually infinite resources to counter-attack, and is strengthened in the process.

    There’s nothing in the world — nothing — that focuses the State or feeds it more satisfyingly than a direct challenge to its sovereignty. Direct challenge can only end three ways: destruction (e.g., John Brown’s Raid), co-option (e.g., the Civil Rights Movement), or successful overthrow, in which the old boss is replaced by an identical new boss and the cycle begins anew.

    Another strategy must be adopted or the only thing achieved is playing Einstein’s Insanity Game on a grand scale. As an anarchist, I propose the abandonment of violence. Alas, as you and many, many others have beaten into me over the years, and which I finally agree to, human nature is an insurmountable barrier to this strategy.

    That leaves Einstein’s Insanity Game as the only option for those who choose to remain in society. This reduces the work of The Agitator and like-minded individuals to complaining that other people (State agents and apologists and beneficiaries) play the game better.

    But in the end, all anyone can do is talk to one another. This is what it’s all about — the human need for catharsis. I guess as long as people are talking, they’re probably not shooting. About as much as one could expect from hyper-cerebral apes with a penchant for tool-making.

    Really, in the end, don’t humans just expect too much from one another?

  78. #78 |  celticdragonchick | 

    Who’s the idiot at ABC News who thought it would be a good idea to put the shooting victims and a bunch of Tea Party people in the same room a week after the shooting?

    I have to agree.

    Not smart. Emotions were bound to be running high and things would be said that we all wish were not. The producers are frakking idiots.

  79. #79 |  Joe | 

    But in the end, all anyone can do is talk to one another. This is what it’s all about — the human need for catharsis. I guess as long as people are talking, they’re probably not shooting. About as much as one could expect from hyper-cerebral apes with a penchant for tool-making.

    Human nature is a hurdle. Then again we managed to domesticate lowly yeast, first by accident and then refined its use over time through a blend of art and then science, which I would propose is one of mankind’s greatest acheivements.

  80. #80 |  Mike T | 

    All of you who are calling for people to be locked up involuntarily for 72 hours because their behavior is “strange” are showing your authoritarian colors. If you don’t think this would be abused beyond belief, you are either naive or just don’t care.

    Then what are you going to do to elevate the ability of private citizens to defend themselves? Are you willing to make a death threat tantamount to a use of force?

  81. #81 |  Joe | 

    I worked as a volunteer at Belevue in New York (both the emergency department and the psych ward). This is not scientific, but what 72 hour detentions that came in all seemed justified. And what I saw in those circumstances was kindness and trying to get people to calm down, not One Flew Over The Cuckoo’s Nest.

    I am not a proponent of the 72 hour detention. It should only be sparringly used. But there are times that it is necessary and is often better alternative than having someone hauled to county jail.

  82. #82 |  QuietWatcher | 

    Re: the $50.00 death tax story. Are you fucking kidding me King County? I am embarrassed that I live in WA (not in King County, Thank the Diety!) NO ONE, and I mean NO ONE, has the right to judge those parents, and to anyone who does, Fuck You!!! Unless you’ve been in their position, take your mothers advice and don’t say anything at all!
    Re: the tragedy in AR. Bad shit happens. Bad shit has happened before and bad shit will happen again. We can’t start locking up people for what they MIGHT do. It sucks but that’s the deal. It’s a horrible catch 22 but it’s part of what we treasure about being Americans.

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