D.A.R.E.: Ripping Families Apart Since 1983

Sunday, October 17th, 2010

When it comes to its stated mission—keeping school-age children from trying illicit drugs—the D.A.R.E. program has been a failure. But D.A.R.E. does have a fun history of teaching kids to turn their pot-smoking parents in to the police.

It happened again last week:

The 11-year-old student is in 5th grade at a an elementary school in Matthews.  Police say he brought his parents’ marijuana cigarettes to school when he reported them.

Matthews Police say he reported his parents after a lesson about marijuana was delivered by a police officer who is part of the D.A.R.E. program, which teaches kids about the dangers of drugs, alcohol, and tobacco.

“Even if it’s happening in their own home with their own parents, they understand that’s a dangerous situation because of what we’re teaching them,” said Matthews Officer Stason Tyrrell.  That’s what they’re told to do, to make us aware.”..

Police arrested the child’s 40-year-old father and 38-year-old mother on Thursday.

Both were charged with two misdemeanor counts each of marijuana possession and possession of drug paraphernalia.

They were not jailed and were released on a written promise to appear in court…

Police say both the 11-year old and a sibling have been removed from the parents’ house by social services.

Proving once again that pot ruins lives. Not because of the drug itself, but because of what the government will do to you if they catch you with it.

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130 Responses to “D.A.R.E.: Ripping Families Apart Since 1983”

  1. #1 |  Dave | 

    “Police say both the 11-year old and a sibling have been removed from the parents’ house by social services.”
    Now the welfare of the children is in real jeopardy.
    Tragic.

  2. #2 |  J.S. | 

    Well, at least the kid will learn what happens to snitches and how the state really takes care of its slaves.. er children.

  3. #3 |  Kevin3% | 

    It is so tragic when the state uses children to get their way. This family is forever damaged because of the over-reach of self righteous creeps in government. How anyone could say that breaking a family apart is better than someone smoking an herb that grows in god’s green earth is the real crime.

    …and yes, another sad example of why we should never trust any agent of the government especially the police.

  4. #4 |  Sky | 

    Who wants to bet money that the 11 year-old was never told by DARE that if he reported his parents he would be snatched out of his home, his parents would be arrested and thrown in jail and he would be placed in custody of the State?

  5. #5 |  Stephen | 

    Who really thinks the kid is going to be better off? Lost his parents and living in a shithole now. You cops really taught him something right? Heres hoping he learns the lesson well.

  6. #6 |  JS | 

    The Hitler youth lives!

  7. #7 |  Marty | 

    don’t allow retards entry

    drugs aren’t really evil

    they need a new meaning for their stupid acronym…

    and to think, the parents paid taxes to the school for this shit. the propaganda machine ground up some more victims. our younger girl was smitten with the DARE officer because the evil prick was complimenting her drawings. he was so nice, she was smitten.

  8. #8 |  highnumber | 

    I wonder if I will be allowed to remove my kids from the DARE program when they reach that age. Anyone heard of such a thing?

  9. #9 |  nospam | 

    I’ve gone from not giving a shit if a cop gets run over by an 18 wheeler during a freeway traffic stop to being kinda happy when it happens just because of bullshit like this. Show of hands…anyone else or is it just me?

  10. #10 |  Rhayader | 

    they need a new meaning for their stupid acronym…

    Drugwar Assholes Ruin Everything

    Sky #4 makes the important point here — how do you think this little 11-year-old feels? Did he have even the slightest understanding of what the drug war and the criminal justice system actually mean? He was probably taught that “helping” people who are “abusing” drugs — even if it’s someone in your family, kids! — by turning them into authorities is the only way to free them from their demons. What an unconscionable psychological burden to place on the shoulders of an innocent little child trying to do what he’s taught.

  11. #11 |  A420Nation | 

    Parents – the lesson here is to make sure your children understand, even at a young age, that they should never volunteer information to law enforcement without you, their parent present.

  12. #12 |  Psion | 

    I sincerely hope, though doubt, that the rest of that class learns about what happened in this incident.

  13. #13 |  Nate | 

    In fifth grade I was denied DARE graduation because I wouldn’t sign the drug free pledge. I thought it was immoral to make 11 year olds sign a contract while denying them the rights of majority. I’m so proud of 18 year ago me.

  14. #14 |  Chris | 

    Radley, what’s your phrase: libertarianism happens to people? It just happened to this kid, and his classmates.

  15. #15 |  Kevin3% | 

    highnumber:

    Yes you can demand to remove you child from the DARE program but be aware that it raises a red flag to these goons. They will be watching you very closely.

    The real lesson is to make sure you get to your kids first. Children must be taught at the earliest age how dangerous the government can be to your family. Let them know that the government is not going to help the family solve any problems…they can only make life more troublesome.

  16. #16 |  Kevin3% | 

    ….I am so glad that my kids are past the age of attending school.

  17. #17 |  highnumber | 

    Kevin3%,
    My life is pretty clean, so I have no fear of red flags. It sounds like a good option to me.

  18. #18 |  Mattocracy | 

    Imagine what an ass this kid will feel like in the future, if that hasn’t happened already. If I put my parents in jail, got me and my sibling put in foster care, I’d be reaching out for some kind of chemical substance to help me cope with it all.

  19. #19 |  C. S. P. Schofield | 

    Anybody want to bet that the kid in question was assured that his “answers” would be “completely confidential”?

    And then these same statist twits survey teens (who have been exposed to YEARS of this kind of two-faced buttinskiism) about smoking, or sex, or whatever ….. and take the results seriously.

    HAH!

  20. #20 |  EH | 

    The real lesson is to make sure you get to your kids first. Children must be taught at the earliest age how dangerous the government can be to your family.

    Oh, DARE will just start incorporating that into their curriculum. “Now, some of you may have been told that the police can’t be trusted, but I’m here to give you the facts…”

  21. #21 |  PW | 

    #9 – the biggest tragedy of the scenario you describe is the fact that the cop who gets flattened will be immortalized in stone on that giant “fallen hero” cop memorial in DC, even though it was probably his own stupidity that got him killed.

    It’s a little known and little reported fact, but over half of the police fatalities that happen annually in this country are from common traffic accidents. Based on the propaganda they put out there you’d think 100% of cop deaths were in a hail of bullets fighting “gangs” or “drug dealers.” Not so. Most of them come from cops driving like reckless maniacs and plowing themselves into a concrete pillar. And we make them into “heroes” for it.

    I want to see the monument to the logger who got crushed by a falling tree, or the garbageman who was accidentally crushed under a dumpster. At least they died doing something productive for society.

  22. #22 |  Cappy | 

    #7 Marty : D.A.R.E. = Drugs Are Really Excellent

  23. #23 |  Mike | 

    Cappy wins!

  24. #24 |  Lucy | 

    I thought there was no new, surprising evil about the drug war. I was wrong. Anyone who thinks this acceptable is insane.

    Dear parents, thanks again for keeping me out of public school and for telling me what weed wasn’t that bad, but cops weren’t to be trusted.

  25. #25 |  CharlesWT | 

    Drugs Are Really Expensive

  26. #26 |  Taktix® | 

    Another fine member of the Junior Spies. Nineteen Eighty-Four wasn’t supposed to be a manual for government, people!

    How about: Don’t Assess, Report Everyone

  27. #27 |  Michael | 

    This puts the parents in a tough legal position. If they go to trial to fight the chain of custody of the drugs, they end up having their kids as hostile witnesses. I’m sure the prosecutor knows this and has no problems exploiting children.

  28. #28 |  random guy | 

    *checks the “Using children to police their parents” off of his 1984 checklist*

    I like having cases like this in my mental Rolodex when people say I’m hyperbolic for calling the US a police state.

  29. #29 |  Franklin Harris | 

    If I were that kid’s parent, when I regained custody I would ground him for whatever length of time I ended up spending behind bars/doing “community service.”

  30. #30 |  Greg | 

    Sieg Heil!

    Thanks Cappy, I think you’re on the right track. Might I offer, Drugs Are Really Excellent?

    Since the dawn of man’s ability to alter his consciousness, he has. Were alcohol invented tomorrow, the FDA would label it Schedule I.

    But we’d still be after it. More so, as Big Brother said we couldn’t have it(see:Prohibition).

    Most (if not all) people ‘modify’ their brain chemistry to achieve some alternate state from the norm. ‘Runner’s High’ is a chemical stimulus of the brain that is chemically very close to MDMA (ectasy).

    Kids twirling ’til they get dizzy is just another kind of high.

    Athletes have been ‘doping’ since the first Olympic games.

    Human nature is lizardbrain hardwired. Yeah, it gets fuzzy ’round the ‘civilized’ edges, but at the end of the day, if I have more money/power than you, I can get your female to mate with me at will. If civilized society comes to a crashing end, we will attempt to kill each other for food. One of us will win.

    We can gussie it up for all eternity, but in the final distillation, humans are very little different than they were thousands of years ago.

  31. #31 |  Aaron C. de Bruyn | 

    My kid is only 4 years old, but he will gladly tell you about the “bad government” which doesn’t listen to or obey the rules and it likes to hurt people.

    He knows the only time he is allowed to talk to a police officer is if he is lost or mommy and daddy are there and say it’s ok. Not that either of us smoke pot, it’s just that they have no right to talk to my child about anything–and he has a 5th amendment right to refuse to talk to the police. Even if he’s 4.

  32. #32 |  V | 

    “police officer who is part of the D.A.R.E. program, which teaches kids about the dangers of drugs, alcohol, and tobacco.”

    Kind of amusing considering the stories regarding police officers who test positive for DUI several hours after a car accident.

  33. #33 |  CK | 

    Why the assumption that the child in question is a snitch? It is easy to obtain fatboys, easy to make up stories. Maybe the little lad does not like nor wish to be with his current parents, so he uses the DARE folks to get at his folks in ways which he could not. Using the state to hurt your enemies is old hat … parents and teachers … enemies … same same.

  34. #34 |  noseeum | 

    To calm down some commenters, if you read the linked article you will find out the kids are staying with relatives, not at some foster home.

    This story is infuriating. How can these teachers and cops live with themselves?

  35. #35 |  Carlyle Moulton | 

    Let’s hope the parents refuse to take custody of the nasty little snitch back.

  36. #36 |  scottp | 

    Dumb Asses Ruin Everything

  37. #37 |  Maria | 

    My father has told me numerous times about the random reviews he and his classmates had when he was a young man in Poland. Nice, friendly adults would take you aside and talk to you. About your worries, your family, your parents. What you did during last vacation. Any radios in the house? Oh? What’s your favorite programs? And your father, what’s his? Etc etc etc.

    I know comparing apples and oranges is a dangerous game but .. seriously? the way these guys operate is like an apple orange mutant hybrid.

    Best bet? Like the anti-drug parrots always tell us:

    Parents, talk to your kids.

    Way too many others are already doing so!

  38. #38 |  tb | 

    Franklin Harris and Carlyle Moulton,

    It’s a fucking child. Have you no decency? The child is not the enemy here.

  39. #39 |  adam s | 

    that kid is sooo grounded.

    drugs may or may not ruin your life; but going to jail sure as shit will!

  40. #40 |  Nancy Lebovitz | 

    The problem with teaching children to never trust the police is that sometimes parents are so abusive that a kid is actually better off with the justice system.

    The hard truth is that you (and that includes children) sometimes have to take your chances without having sufficient information.

  41. #41 |  Kayak2U Blog » Blog Archive » Is this a great country, or what? | 

    […] Balko: Proving once again that pot ruins lives. Not because of the drug itself, but because of what the government will do to you if they catch you with it. […]

  42. #42 |  Big Government | 

    “The child is not the enemy here.”

    No he is not the enemy. He is our bait.

  43. #43 |  Boyd Durkin | 

    The system worked!

  44. #44 |  Elemenope | 

    My DARE officer was later arrested for robbing from old people.

  45. #45 |  akb4189 | 

    A couple things:

    1. This kid looks happy: he was removed from the home “and is staying with relatives.”

    2. What if the drug in question was crack, meth, or heroin?

    Drugs are not excellent, and they are especially not excellent for kids who are subject to drugged out parents.

  46. #46 |  Boyd Durkin | 

    DARE Agent Robbing Elderly

  47. #47 |  JS | 

    “Proving once again that pot ruins lives. Not because of the drug itself, but because of what the government will do to you if they catch you with it.”

    Pot is just the excuse for authoritarianism. If it wasn’t weed it’d be some other excuse (for our own good of course).

  48. #48 |  Joe | 

    Remember when being a “narc” was considered a bad thing for school kids?

    Best anti narc speech evah.

  49. #49 |  Andrew S. | 

    Dear DARE officers: Once again, you’re forgetting that 1984 is a cautionary tale, not a guidebook:

    With those children, he thought, that wretched woman must lead a life of terror. Another year, two years, and they would be watching her night
    and day for symptoms of unorthodoxy. Nearly all children nowadays were
    horrible. What was worst of all was that by means of such organizations as
    the Spies they were systematically turned into ungovernable little savages,
    and yet this produced in them no tendency whatever to rebel against the
    discipline of the Party. On the contrary, they adored the Party and
    everything connected with it. The songs, the processions, the banners, the
    hiking, the drilling with dummy rifles, the yelling of slogans, the worship
    of Big Brother–it was all a sort of glorious game to them. All their
    ferocity was turned outwards, against the enemies of the State, against
    foreigners, traitors, saboteurs, thought-criminals. It was almost normal
    for people over thirty to be frightened of their own children. And with
    good reason, for hardly a week passed in which ‘The Times’ did not carry
    a paragraph describing how some eavesdropping little sneak–‘child hero’
    was the phrase generally used–had overheard some compromising remark
    and denounced its parents to the Thought Police.

  50. #50 |  Deoxy | 

    “The problem with teaching children to never trust the police is that sometimes parents are so abusive that a kid is actually better off with the justice system.”

    Based on the experiences I have had with the foster care and Child Protective (sic) Services systems, I would have to stop and consider whether to report imminent death to the authorities – and I’m not sure I’d report it, even then. Yes, the system is really that bad. There are some genuinely good people who try really hard to make the system work the right way, but the incentives are ALL messed up, and, in the long run, the incentives will be followed (in part by weeding out the people who WON’T follow them).

  51. #51 |  Les | 

    2. What if the drug in question was crack, meth, or heroin?

    Doesn’t matter. All that matters is behavior. According to the government’s own annual research, most people who use crack, meth, and heroin – like most people who use alcohol and sleep aids – do not abuse the drug and function fully. So if the parents are not abusing or neglecting the physical needs of their kids, what drug they choose to take is irrelevant.

  52. #52 |  Gonad T Barbarian | 

    akb4189 said:
    2. What if the drug in question was crack, meth, or heroin?

    Crack wouldn’t even exist if it weren’t for the “war on drugs”.
    Meth and heroin were a miniscule problem until *after* they were made illegal by the “war on drugs”.

  53. #53 |  TLVF | 

    A home schooled kid is a D.A.R.E. – free kid, unless parents opt-into it.

  54. #54 |  Andrew S. | 

    #52: I don’t think meth exists if there’s no drug war. Meth is more or less the equivalent to moonshine during alcohol prohibition; since there’s no legally available high, and the illegally available high is expensive, it’s the easiest, cheapest way to get a fix.

    Heroin, quite frankly, should be more prevalent in the absence of a drug war. It’s more effective than most other opioid-based pain relievers.

  55. #55 |  Marty | 

    #53- this is part of the reason we homeschool.

    ‘Drugwar Assholes Ruin Everything’ is sounding pretty good to me.

  56. #56 |  Boyd Durkin | 

    A couple things:

    1. This kid looks happy: he was removed from the home “and is staying with relatives.”

    2. What if the drug in question was crack, meth, or heroin?

    Drugs are not excellent, and they are especially not excellent for kids who are subject to drugged out parents.

    There is no mention that the parents are “drugged out”. If you have additional details, please provide.

    Would it matter to the state if the kid looked happy with his parents? If that doesn’t matter to the state, why would you include it in your pro-state comment as justification of their actions?

    As for your comment “Drugs are not excellent.” I have it on pretty good advice that raging herpes is not excellent, so no one should ever have sex.

  57. #57 |  Jeffrey Quick | 

    So why hasn’t this kid been all over the news? This generation needs its own Pavel Morozov.

  58. #58 |  MadRocketScientist | 

    My folks smoked lots of pot when I was a kid, a habit I was always angry with them for. Not because I had a problem with them smoking pot, but rather, because I knew if they ever got busted for it, I’d get put in foster care, which was a lot scarier than stoned parents.

  59. #59 |  Publius | 

    Police states traditionally take advantage of children informing on family members. Parents and families are important. This kid’s entire life has been ruined and over just a misdemeanor.

    As for: akb4189 ” What if the drug in question was crack, meth, or heroin? ”

    Crack is a pure creation of the war on drugs. Cocaine itself is not all that habituating.

    Similarly, air force pilots use amphetamine on long flights– so it can’t be all that bad.

    As for “heroin” As long as you can get the drug, Opiate addiction is not all that big a deal in tems of functioning. To a large extent this is because tolerance to any behavior effect sets in within a month or two. The doctor who founded the modern surgery residency and the chairman of the Johns Hopkins department of surgery was severly addicted to Morphine most of his professional life.

  60. #60 |  Jack | 

    Yeah, I agree that the war on pot is bullshit, but be REALLY careful about teaching kids to completely distrust and disrespect the system that, despite its flaws, is really trying to take care of us. What if the kid gets victimized in some other, real way? Like physical abuse, or god forbid, sexual abuse? We don’t want to teach our kids that they should never go to the authorities because they will only cause trouble for the family. Sometimes the family is sick and NEEDS to be broken up.

  61. #61 |  Sean L. | 

    “…the system that, despite its flaws, is really trying to take care of us.”

    I’ll take care of myself, thank you very much.

    “We don’t want to teach our kids that they should never go to the authorities because they will only cause trouble for the family. Sometimes the family is sick and NEEDS to be broken up.”

    This isn’t the first type of this comment in the thread, so I’ll answer them all: The logic of this is fallacious. To prove this, let me demonstrate all four possibilities that cover your concern:

    1) The parents are not abusive and teach their kids to trust government agents.
    2) The parents are not abusive and warn their kids never to trust government agents.
    3) The parents ARE abusive and teach their kids to trust government agents.
    4) The parents ARE abusive and warn their kids never to trust government agents.

    Since you’re warning us about scenario 2, let me first break down the other three:

    Kids in scenario 1 have the highest risk of being exactly where the kid in this story has found himself: taken by force from a non-abusive family because of something he said to a ‘trusted’ government official. Scenario 3 is ludicrous on its face — no abusive parent would tell their kid that the abuse would stop if he just went to a cop or teacher. Scenario 4 is similarly silly. I imagine the conversation may go something like, “Tell anyone and I’ll kill you.”

    So that leaves us with scenario 2, which, since (by definition of the scenario) the kids are not being abused, provides the greatest amount of protection from an overreaching bureaucratic machine that has proven time and time and time again its ability and willingness to completely destroy lives for the most trivial of what IT deems as an offence.

  62. #62 |  akb4189 | 

    Negative 26! Awesome! My friends know me as a raging libertarian, but apparently I’m a statist to this audience. What a riot.

    Look, I’m for Mary J being decriminalized and I think the War on Drugs needs to end, but if some poor kid has to go home to parents who do meth, or heroin, or crack, that kid needs to feel comfortable telling the authorities who can get him/her and the siblings out of that mess and to more stable relatives.

    If the limited government crowd wants real power, that comes from winning elections, we need to stop advancing the interests of the lowest of the low lives among us – like hard drug users.

  63. #63 |  Mike T | 

    My wife, in the past was a drug and alcohol counsellor and was contracted to work in schools, provide education, resources etc. In her opinion and widely shared by just about anyone in the profession, DARE is the worst program. Does far more harm than good. Unfortunately, it is popular with politicians, so they had to hold their noses and try and limit the damage after each presentation.

  64. #64 |  Marty | 

    ‘we need to stop advancing the interests of the lowest of the low lives among us – like hard drug users.’

    do you think there’d be meth and heroin issues if drugs were legal and regulated? why do you consider hard drug users the ‘lowest of the low’? I consider abusive govt officials (nanny politicians, meddling and abusive cops, etc) to be the ‘lowest of the low’…

  65. #65 |  Medicine Man | 

    Yeah, I know akb4189. The thread starts with a great post about governmental intrusion into family life, with gut-wrenching consequences, and gradually devolves into a full-frontal defense of heroin use; it turns out it isn’t so bad if you can just get enough of it. Who knew?

  66. #66 |  Medicine Man | 

    And yes, there would be problematic abuse of meth and heroin even if the drugs were legal and regulated. There is abuse of alcohol and that is legal and regulated.

    Just as a thought experiment: If meth and heroin were legal and regulated, try to imagine what the regulatory body governing those substances would be like. Be careful what you wish for.

  67. #67 |  Andrew S. | 

    Medicine Man: How many people still drink moonshine nowadays? Isn’t moonshine during prohibition the most apt comparison to methamphetamines during drug prohibition? Easy, cheap, make it at home, right?

    Also, what, exactly, is the difference between heroin (illegal) and morphine (legal)? If a parent was taking morphine for pain you’d say nothing, but taking heroin is somehow terrible.

  68. #68 |  Les | 

    Look, I’m for Mary J being decriminalized and I think the War on Drugs needs to end, but if some poor kid has to go home to parents who do meth, or heroin, or crack, that kid needs to feel comfortable telling the authorities who can get him/her and the siblings out of that mess and to more stable relatives.

    Since you’re just repeating yourself, I’ll do the same. Most people who use meth and heroin and crack do so responsibly. There is as much a reason to take a child from a home where heroin is used responsibly as there is to take a child from a home where sleep aids and alcohol are used responsibly.

    Kids need to feel comfortable telling authorities if they are being abused or their physical needs are being neglected. Having an illegal drug in the house does not automatically make that house “a mess.” Kids also need to learn the critical thinking skills necessary to tell the difference between a reasonable intrusion by the state to prevent child-abuse and the arbitrary enforcement of politically correct laws which do more harm than good.

  69. #69 |  Andrew S. | 

    If the limited government crowd wants real power, that comes from winning elections, we need to stop advancing the interests of the lowest of the low lives among us – like hard drug users.

    Ah yes. The old “libertarians would be accepted if they just stopped advocating for [insert basic tenant of libertarian philosophy here]. I think that calls for a drink!

    I suppose that you think we shouldn’t defend the 4th amendment rights of criminals, since they’re the “lowest of the low”, correct? No free speech rights for people whose speech we don’t agree with?

  70. #70 |  akb4189 | 

    Sweet Jesus what is the matter here?! I’m really with you all about 99% of the time, but this reductionist crap is hilarious!

    OF COURSE I’m for 4th, and 2nd, and 1st and all the other amendment rights for EVERYONE. But a kid really does need to be able to tell on his/her parents if they are hard drug users. Really, there are “parents” out there that are doing an awesome job even though they happen to use heroin or meth or crack occasionally? Join reality! If you are scoring smack on the street, you are a shitty parent! Kids need to be taken out of that environment until you get your life straight. Period.

  71. #71 |  Medicine Man | 

    Andrew S.:

    From what I understand, there is still a small presence of moonshine producers in the South. Not enough to support organized crime however, which is one of the arguments you can make in favor of legalizing x,y, or z.

    A parent taking morphene is doing so with direction from a medical professional, scripts from a dispensary/pharmacist, etc. The difference isn’t hard to divine, if you stop and think about it. Direction and control of the supply. A question for you: Would would be the difference between that arrangement and the hypothetical legal/regulated heroin that your fellow traveler Marty imagines?

  72. #72 |  Medicine Man | 

    *What would be… etc.

    — stupid spelling mistakes. Pardon me.

  73. #73 |  akb4189 | 

    P.S. How many of you are functional hard drug users? Really? Do you have kids? Do you think you can effectively parent a child while high on hard drugs?

  74. #74 |  akb4189 | 

    And yeah, I am more irritated by nanny-statists than drug users without children who never drive and just commit a slow suicide by smoking/shooting their lives away in some insular basement.

  75. #75 |  Cynical in CA | 

    #62 | akb4189 — “Negative 26! Awesome! My friends know me as a raging libertarian, but apparently I’m a statist to this audience. What a riot.”

    You can be a libertarian, but you are making rather unlibertarian arguments. Freedom is messy — security for individuals, especially children, is no certainty in freedom. The alternative is lack of freedom, which is messier for some, to which no security attends as well, but for the privileged few.

    “If the limited government crowd wants real power, that comes from winning elections …”

    Limited government and winning elections are mutually exclusive, sadly. When libertarians gain political control, they will succumb to the same temptations and demands that presently corrupt statists.

    “We need to stop advancing the interests of the lowest of the low lives among us – like hard drug users.”

    This is the second time in as many days that I’ve posted this quote:

    “The trouble with fighting for human freedom is that one spends most of one’s time defending scoundrels. For it is against scoundrels that oppressive laws are first aimed, and oppression must be stopped at the beginning if it is to be stopped at all.” — H.L. Mencken

    Look, no one really wants freedom anyway. With freedom comes RESPONSIBILITY. That’s too much for just about everyone.

  76. #76 |  Cynical in CA | 

    @#69 | akb4189

    Anything can be justified in the name of the “children.” In fact, I’m quite surprised that one doesn’t need a “Parent’s License” to have a child in America. That should be coming soon.

    Before the State destroyed the family and launched its 40-year War on People, it was incumbent on extended families to intervene in abuse cases. Failing that, local charities, churches could/would step in.

    It may seem cold-hearted, but the children of drug abusers are no one’s responsibility but their parents and the extended family of the parents, then anyone else who wants to step in voluntarily. Anything else done involuntarily by the State is a cuckoldry scheme writ large and greases the slippery slope toward complete absence of freedom.

    I would think a libertarian would understand this.

  77. #77 |  Les | 

    But a kid really does need to be able to tell on his/her parents if they are hard drug users.

    What is a “hard drug?” Alcohol is more damaging and dangerous than heroin.

    Really, there are “parents” out there that are doing an awesome job even though they happen to use heroin or meth or crack occasionally? Join reality!

    Okay, let’s! First of all, whether or not a parent is doing an “awesome job” is irrelevant. Plenty of perfectly sober parents are treating their kids like shit this very moment. Second of all, if someone who is addicted to alcohol can be a decent parent, and plenty are, then so can someone who uses, but is not addicted to heroin or crack.

    If you are scoring smack on the street, you are a shitty parent! Kids need to be taken out of that environment until you get your life straight. Period.

    This is a baseless, authoritarian attitude. There are lots of ways to procure heroin and any other illegal drug. Some good parents score marijuana on the street and many people think their kids should be taken away from them.

  78. #78 |  Andrew S. | 

    Cynical: I prefer this quote:

    “An avidity to punish is always dangerous to liberty. It leads men to stretch, to misinterpret, and to misapply even the best of laws. He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself.” – Thomas Paine

    (though I guess the two quotes say the same thing)

  79. #79 |  akb4189 | 

    Slippery slope is a logical fallacy.

    I don’t advocate anything and everything in defense of “the children.” But getting kids out of abusive and neglectful situations is a noble and necessary thing to do.

    I guess being a libertarian runs a continuum, too. Chalk me up to the side who says it’s okay to rescue children from shitty parents – those who abuse them or are too jacked up on various substances that their own kids are willing to turn them in to get away from them.

  80. #80 |  Medicine Man | 

    The problem is that once society starts taking responsibility for people’s health and well-being (social programs, health care, etc.), leaving people alone to be shitty parents just flies right out the window. We all end up owning a market share in other people’s parental negligence.

  81. #81 |  Medicine Man | 

    I’m also with Akb on the child welfare issue. Obviously, it is preferable for the child’s relatives or community to intervene, but in their absence a response from a government body is preferable to a child being SOL.

    Any kind of intervention (government or otherwise) should have a high burden of proof though; particularly with the government involved. The absence of that burden is especially shocking in the DARE case cited in the original post. The fact that this family was smashed by governmental fiat over weed is just insanity piled on top of injustice.

  82. #82 |  Michael MD | 

    #72

    Part of the confusion about “heroin” is the fact that it had to have its name changed from “diamorphine ” before it would not be recognized as a medication. Use of the name “heroin” just promotes the ignorance about the drug, that is realistically and scientifically, no different than any other opiate! (and much weaker than many of the new synthetic opiates)

    People get opiates every day Many are on, large, daily doses of them. They function, just like methadone maintenance patients do, at a “normal” level. The only reason heroin is so popular, among dealers, is that they can make lots of money from it! It should not be a class II drug. And, amphetamines are legal, when prescribed.

    And, akb,

    Who do you think should get to decide, which parents are the shitty ones? Do we need a new “parenting czar”?

  83. #83 |  Cynical in CA | 

    #79 | akb4189 — “Slippery slope is a logical fallacy.”

    Proof please.

    As for incrementalism, read Charlotte Twight’s “Dependent on D.C.” and get back to me.

  84. #84 |  Michael MD | 

    That is it “should not be a class I drug”.

  85. #85 |  Cynical in CA | 

    #79 | akb4189 — “I don’t advocate anything and everything in defense of “the children.” But getting kids out of abusive and neglectful situations is a noble and necessary thing to do.”

    For a family, yes. For a charity/church, voluntarily, yes. To introduce violence via the State, no.

    I can accept a couple of kids suffering to prevent the State from intruding and making everyone’s life a living hell, because I accept responsibility for my own children and no one else’s. As Les aptly pointed out, there are plenty of “straight” parents who abuse the shit out of their kids. Child abuse will never be eradicated, and even if State intrusion could eradicate it, the damage to freewill/morality more than outweighs the good.

    I’m still not convinced you’re a libertarian, but then libertarianism covers a wide spectrum!

  86. #86 |  Cynical in CA | 

    #81 | Medicine Man — “I’m also with Akb on the child welfare issue. Obviously, it is preferable for the child’s relatives or community to intervene, but in their absence a response from a government body is preferable to a child being SOL.”

    Can’t have it both ways, MM. Sorry, try again.

  87. #87 |  akb4189 | 

    Nope – no parenting czars. Never came close to saying that.

    Slippery slope: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slippery_slope: “The fallacious sense of “slippery slope” is often used synonymously with continuum fallacy, in that it ignores the possibility of middle ground and assumes a discrete transition from category A to category B.”

    There’s plenty of middle ground between children suffering abuse and neglect at the hands of unfit parents with no recourse and the nanny state randomly knocking on doors and suspecting your home.

  88. #88 |  Andrew S. | 

    @akb:

    1. I think that looking at the history of government and the way it works, the slippery slope is in no way a logical fallacy when it comes to looking at this sort of thing.

    2. Why should drug use by parents, absent some other proof of neglect or abuse, be a reason for the state to take away a child?

  89. #89 |  akb4189 | 

    Sigh.

    Slippery slope means that just b/c one takes a small step in a direction you don’t like on the continuum of possible actions, doesn’t mean that things accelerate all the way to your worst case scenario. Do we as citizens have to “hold the line” from time to time? Of course, and by no means would I advocate terminating parental rights for weed possession. Again, I have no problem with weed – I think it should be legalized.

    But weed is not crack or meth or acid, heroin, etc. I think it’s worth exploring how far we’re willing to take this, and at what point decent people – yeah, through their government – rescue kids from their crack head parents. BECAUSE IF YOU SMOKE CRACK YOU ARE NOT A GOOD PARENT. Anyone who can’t see that needs to put down the pipe themselves.

    My whole point in my original, long ago, post was to see at what point folks would be willing to say, “hey, maybe it’s not so bad that kids can find a trusted adult to tell about their drugged out [not weed!!!] parents.” With the exception of a couple reasonable folks here, apparently the overwhelming answer is that kids are on their own and need not snitch while their parents score smack to numb themselves.

  90. #90 |  Pinandpuller | 

    I just want to know what responsible meth use is. You only lose two teeth a year?

  91. #91 |  C. S. P. Schofield | 

    Regarding Pot, Heroin, and Cocaine; I note that through the 19th century all three were variously legal through much of the United States, and the number one drug problem was …. (wait for it) …. alcohol.

    I’m not saying that legalizing EVERYTHING is necessarily a good idea. I’m saying that we don’t know, and that it bears consideration. Think of the multifarious sorts of Statist buttinskiism we could ash-can if we accepted that some people simply were going to destroy themselves with SOMETHING, and stopped helping them do so by slinging them into the slammer.

  92. #92 |  John | 

    Pinandpuller #49

    If you really want to know what responsible meth use is you might want to consult a Physicians Desk Reference. Methamphetamine is a prescription drug. I don’t have a PDR handy to check for sure, but I doubt tooth loss is even listed as a side effect.

  93. #93 |  Marty | 

    ‘BECAUSE IF YOU SMOKE CRACK YOU ARE NOT A GOOD PARENT. Anyone who can’t see that needs to put down the pipe themselves.’

    do you have anything besides your anecdotal opinion? in the 80s, crack was being touted as the drug that was destroying communities, instantly addictive, etc. as a medic, I was in the middle of these ghettos. I know LOTS of people who’ve used cocaine in all of it’s forms- they’re doctors who take care of you, medics you call for help, insurance agents, etc. get educated. you’re still believing the propaganda. Nancy Reagan and her bullshit ‘just say no’ program is dead.

    ‘My whole point in my original, long ago, post was to see at what point folks would be willing to say, “hey, maybe it’s not so bad that kids can find a trusted adult to tell about their drugged out [not weed!!!] parents.” With the exception of a couple reasonable folks here, apparently the overwhelming answer is that kids are on their own and need not snitch while their parents score smack to numb themselves.’

    it’s nice to think dfs, police, teachers, etc are ‘trusted adults’ there to help. they’re not. the proof is in the constant barrage of stories- school districts spying on students via computers, DARE officers convincing kids their parents are horrible (kids thinking their parents have drug issues because they drink ‘too much’ soda and it has caffeine and caffeine is a drug…), etc… have you been part of any of these investigations? have you seen kids taken from parents? I’ve seen horrible child abuse and have seen kids taken from horrible parents and placed with horrible foster parents.

    ‘trusted adults’- family members, friends, etc. unfortunately, that doesn’t always work, either. But this is still better than being ground through the system.

    one of the problems with govt- it all sounds so good when they’re selling the programs to the taxpayers…

    here’s my anecdotal slippery slope observation- when I was a kid, they never brought drug dogs into my school, they never searched our cars without cause, they never searched lockers without cause, the first amendment was intact (in theory), there wasn’t ‘zero tolerance’ bullshit, and DARE did not exist. 25 years later, my kid attended the same school I did. crime statistics are actually a little better today in this upper middle class area… they do ‘lockdowns’ where they lock the school and bring in dogs, they search cars, they require urine tests, they search lockers- just because they want to. these intrusions almost never do anything but show the students ‘who’s the boss’. The supreme court determined that students don’t have free speech rights based on a case from hazelwood hs (20 miles away). this all started with the ‘just say no’ bullshit. this is a big part of the reason we homeschool. these aren’t trusted adults doing this to our kids.

  94. #94 |  John | 

    Pinandpuller #90

    If you really want to know what responsible meth use is you might want to consult a Physicians Desk Reference. Methamphetamine is a prescription drug. I don’t have a PDR handy to check for sure, but I doubt tooth loss is even listed as a side effect.

  95. #95 |  Pete | 

    akb, I think the biggest problem with all your posts so far has been your baseless assumption that using anything other than marijuana or alcohol automatically and necessarily makes a parent ‘bad’.

    There is no ‘middle ground’ there for you, and I can’t figure out why. I can look back on my own ‘drug war education’ and realize that most of my knowledge about crack and pcp and the like come from the various ‘cop drama’ television shows that necessarily portray them as life-ruining scourges that turn a person into Meany McStabbypants.

    Well, now that I’ve grown up and independently concluded that many of the claims associated with the War on Drugs are full of shit, I recognize that it’s probably quite possible to use a drug like meth or heroin and not have anyone suspect or find fault with your day to day performance. I also recognize that it’s quite possible to become a raging tooth-mushed addict who has kids eating cardboard, but that could just as easily be true with alcohol.

    The point is, I, and I suspect others here, are simply not willing to concede that use of any particular drug AUTOMATICALLY AND NECESSARILY makes you a horrible person who is unfit to parent. That is the kind of assertion that requires proof, and the proof is simply not out there, or is anecdotal. (In much the same way that counter-proof will be anecdotal, but I can point to people I know who have periods in their life where they were meth users, and the only reason their lives were ruined was because they were caught. They were ‘maintaining’ just fine.

    So… I think most people here would agree with the idea that kids in a shitty situation should be able to find some way to improve it. Again, I just think most people here refuse the notion that ‘drug using parent’ automatically and necessarily means a shitty situation for the kid(s).

  96. #96 |  akb4189 | 

    @ Marty

    I’m a teacher in a high school and I don’t like the authoritarian stuff, either. I think there’s something to the idea that too much of that trains students to be complacent citizens. I try to cultivate a little rebel when I can. I give them a fair amount of Radley’s articles, and encourage them to complain and question authority when it’s reasonable.

    That said, drugs don’t help kids become healthier, happier individuals who are capable of asserting their rights against an ever more intrusive and monolithic government. It makes them, weaker, sad, and dependent. It makes some of them drop out. I don’t support the war on drugs, but I don’t support kids being subjected to living in an environment where hard drug use is the norm, either. Not sure where the middle ground is, here.

  97. #97 |  Sky | 

    Looking for a middle ground myself and not sure if there is one.

    I live in a very very rural community, lotsa hillcountry and places to hide. Even the County Sheriff’s office calls this place the meth capitol of the U.S. (not sure if it’s tongue in cheek sarcasim or what) but I’ve seen more people wigged out on meth in the last year than I have in my entire life. (I’m in my early 50’s)

    These people have sores over most of their bodies, their teeth are rotted out, their hair has a greasy not washed in weeks appearance, they are paranoid as hell, they twitch constantly, they have really ugly acne issues and there is no telling what is going on inside their bodies or their brains.

    These folks would sell their soul to the devil for the next high. I’ve seen them with children in tow and it’s downright frightening..and the children are generally not much better off in appearance than their parents. These kids also sleep where their parents are getting high and they breath in the fumes that permeate their homes. It breaks my heart because those children are innocent and did not ask for the life they were dealt.

    I’ve talked to some of them and they don’t want to get sober, they love “chasing the white dragon” as they call it and they honestly believe they are not hurting themselves or their children. I know a woman who lost everything she had (including her children) and ended up with a 2 year federal prison stint because she thought she was impervious when she was high. She’s clean and sober now but even she will tell you the temptation is always there just as a sober alcoholic will tell you the temptation is always there to drink.

    These folks will steal from anyone and everyone including their own parents chasing their next high. 3 weeks ago a son caused the death of his father by refusing to pay “the man” for what he owed. The father got involved and chased the dealer off with a gun and a bullet that was delivered to his back as the man was attempting to leave. The bullet to the dealer didn’t do any significant damage but when he called police to report the shooting and the police arrived with a “no knock” warrant” the father opened fire on the police. He is dead. The son now has to live with his fathers death that was completely preventable had he not been involved with meth. The children in the backseat as the dealer was attempting to leave were unharmed.

    When is it the Communities business to get involved and tell the authorities? When does it become a citizens business? Before or after they are robbed, shot or worse? Or do you just ignore it and hope it will all go away? I honestly don’t know.

  98. #98 |  Maria | 

    Wow, lots of interesting comments on this one. Personally, I can’t help but think back to DARE and wonder why exactly they are needed as an authority figure. The issue here isn’t that this poor kid went to an authority figure for protection or counsel. That should never be discourgaed. No child should be in a situation where they have no where to turn to. The issue for me is that DARE is abusing their position and doing harm to children who go through their program. These are young, impressionable minds, eager to please. That is exactly what DARE counts on.

    DARE comes in and brainwashes children. It’s as simple as that. They damage nascent trust by outright lying to kids.This is wholly different from having trusted authority figures available to protect children who need them and seek them out. DARE has about as much to do with protecting the children as the war against drugs has to do with helping substance abusers.

  99. #99 |  Joanna | 

    The DARE program did its job, is its the kids fault that he had dumba** parents that did something so stupid. They know that they could have gone to jail for doing that i give props to the kids for being the adult in his family becuase the parents sure were being adults. It sad that his family got ripped apart but as lease we know there will be one less child trying drug and maybe the parents will finally grow up and become adults

  100. #100 |  Marty | 

    #95 | akb4189 |

    ‘@ Marty

    I’m a teacher in a high school and I don’t like the authoritarian stuff, either. I think there’s something to the idea that too much of that trains students to be complacent citizens.’

    it does more than that- since their rights are getting stomped on, when they become cops and lawyers and judges and school teachers in a few years, they’ll have no problem stomping on our rights. the schools are full of fascist larvae.

    a number of posters keep bringing up meth and how bad it is- this stuff would go away if people had legal options for recreational speed. plus, we’d be able to buy our cold medicine without being entered into a meth database. someone please post a factual critique of drugs, instead of DARE nonsense and hillbilly dentistry. if it’s legalized, Im still not gonna want it, but I won’t be subsidizing THOUSANDS of prisoners, prison guards, DARE officers, narcotics officers, drug dogs, etc. the solution to drugs now is for us to destroy their lives because they MIGHT destroy their lives using drugs.

  101. #101 |  Marty | 

    akb4189-

    thumbs up for sharing Radley’s articles with your students- too much of history and current events is turned into a crappy, g rated disney story that bores kids to death. I bet they’re fascinated when you introduce them to some of these stories!

  102. #102 |  Cynical in CA | 

    #89 | akb4189

    There is empirical evidence that the slippery slope does apply to State intrusion in individuals lives. It’s called the history of the United States of America. Attendant with the slippery slope is the ratchet effect — progressivism never regresses. I don’t expect that you read the book I recommended yet, but Dr. Twight does a fabulous job of proving the slippery slope in about 300 pages.

    If the slippery slope is not a true gradient, then there are infinitesimal little points on an ever-descending line — a distinction without a difference.

    Your error in logic is not understanding that a slippery slope is not necessarily true, but not always false.

    One thing I will agree, however, is that between anarchy and statism, there can be no slippery slope — it is digital, either on or off.

  103. #103 |  Cynical in CA | 

    #96 | Sky — “I live in a very very rural community, lotsa hillcountry and places to hide. Even the County Sheriff’s office calls this place the meth capitol of the U.S.”

    Wasilla, Alaska?

  104. #104 |  Cynical in CA | 

    @#98 | Marty — “fascist larvae”

    I saw them open for Suicidal Tendencies back in ’83.

  105. #105 |  Sky | 

    #101 | Cynical in CA – Wasilla, Alaska?

    LOL! No, further south, way further.

  106. #106 |  Marty | 

    102-

    I’d love to see the handbill art to that one!

  107. #107 |  Jon | 

    Chain of Evidence? I can’t see any way they will be convicted if they have a half decent lawyer.

  108. #108 |  Joe | 

    I agree that this could have been handled better, but I also recognize that I don’t have all the facts. Was this the first time either parent had been busted fro drug possession?

    The other thing I don’t understand is – it is against the law in the US to be in possession of drugs of this nature. Everyone knows this. It isn’t some weird law that is kept hidden from the public. If you knowingly break the law, then shouldn’t there be some form of punishment? Again, I think this particular case could have been handled better, but both parents knew what they were doing.

    How do you try to teach your child that it is ok to break one law but not another?

  109. #109 |  Jenn | 

    I know I am preaching to the choir, but as a child therapist who works with foster kids, I see the truly horrible things that SHOULD bring children into foster care. Severe sexual and physical abuse and neglect. When I have a child in care who was taken in during a no knock raid or due to something like this, I am always furious! Even the severely abused children are badly traumatized by being ripped from their horrible families, let alone children with well adjusted parents who like to get high and relax now and then. I cannot tell you how many times I have encountered PTSD from kiddo’s taken during a no knock raid. Nightmares, constant fear, hatred and distrust of the police…

    I have written to my local lawmakers to discuss that the psychological damage done to these children by being put into foster care is far more harmful than being in a home with a parent who smokes pot. Of course, I live in Seattle, so my opinion is in the minority…

  110. #110 |  Boyd Durkin | 

    When is it the Communities business to get involved and tell the authorities?

    The “authorities” are corrupt and only have guns and sledgehammers. So when you need a corrupt thug swinging a sledgehammer and shooting a gun; it is a good time to call the authorities on corruption, sledgehammers and guns.

    Freedom and liberty are not easy and difficult issues are what test your convictions. Yes, people seem to constantly need bad examples to teach them how to live. But, the false promises of the state to end suffering are not the answer.

  111. #111 |  Cynical in CA | 

    #108 | Joe — “How do you try to teach your child that it is ok to break one law but not another?”

    You could have him/her study Goldman Sachs, for starters.

  112. #112 |  Cynical in CA | 

    That’s a real shame Jenn. I wish there were some solution, but the State’s interests are seldom, if ever, the same as the weakest and most vulnerable of society.

    I’ve compared the State to a force of nature before and it bears repeating. Hurricanes, earthquakes, fires and floods cause PTSD in children too. I understand the human element that enters via the State, but the nature of institutions negates any potential humaneness.

    It would be more mature for everyone to get over the idea that the State can be reformed (any more than hurricanes and earthquakes can be reformed!) and get on with cleaning up its messes and rebuilding the damage.

    Or one can abandon the State and live non-violently.

  113. #113 |  Marty | 

    #108 | Joe |

    ‘How do you try to teach your child that it is ok to break one law but not another?’

    wouldn’t we be better off teaching children that if there’s no victim, there’s no crime? or, teach them not to use govt coercion to force their morals onto others? or, that as free men, we are in control of our bodies? or, maybe sit down and work through the DARE propaganda machine and compare that to other great propaganda machines in history and how they’ve negatively impacted society?

  114. #114 |  JDB | 

    Since the majority seem to think this is ridiculous, I’ll take the moment to just remind folks that pot is not exactly an innocuous substance to kids [1]. It’s the parent’s job to keep their kids safe – if they don’t like the law, fine, work to change it. But in the meanwhile, they’re harming their kids and should be considered unfit parents until they’ve shown otherwise.

    1. Cornelius, M. D.; Taylor, P. M.; Geva. D.; and Day, N. L. Prenatal tobacco and marijuana use among adolescents: effects on offspring gestational age, growth, and morphology. Pediatrics, 95: 738-743, 1995.

  115. #115 |  Just Plain Brian | 

    ‘How do you try to teach your child that it is ok to break one law but not another?’

    “One may well ask: “How can you advocate breaking some laws and obeying others?” The answer lies in the fact that there are two types of laws: just and unjust. I would be the first to advocate obeying just laws. One has not only a legal but a moral responsibility to obey just laws. Conversely, one has a moral responsibility to disobey unjust laws. I would agree with St. Augustine that “an unjust law is no law at all.”

    Now, what is the difference between the two? How does one determine whether a law is just or unjust? A just law is a man made code that squares with the moral law or the law of God. An unjust law is a code that is out of harmony with the moral law. To put it in the terms of St. Thomas Aquinas: An unjust law is a human law that is not rooted in eternal law and natural law. Any law that uplifts human personality is just. Any law that degrades human personality is unjust.”

    -Martin Luther King, Jr.
    Letter from a Birmingham Jail

  116. #116 |  Marty | 

    #114 | JDB |

    ‘Since the majority seem to think this is ridiculous, I’ll take the moment to just remind folks that pot is not exactly an innocuous substance to kids’

    please, without using DARE propaganda or other govt bullshit, explain how pot is a harmful substance to anyone. Also, please point out where anyone here advocates giving children alcohol, tobacco, marijuana, etc…

  117. #117 |  Andrew S. | 

    @JDB: I’d just like to point out that, when I was in High School (graduated 15 years ago, but I’d be surprised if this wasn’t still true), it was far easier for me to obtain marijuana than alcohol. There’s a reason behind that. I’ll let you guess what it is.

  118. #118 |  Boyd Durkin | 

    if they don’t like the law, fine, work to change it.

    Are you being naive or dismissive?

  119. #119 |  Boyd Durkin | 

    A just law is a man made code that squares with the moral law or the law of God.

    Which God? I hope not Loki!

  120. #120 |  Cynical in CA | 

    @#119 | Boyd Durkin

    Oh c’mon Boyd, you’re just being difficult.

    A just law is a man made code that feels all warm and fuzzy and full of yummy goodness.

  121. #121 |  Pinandpuller | 

    John

    I guess responsible meth use is why I have to sign in when I have a runny nose.

    The general tone of this thread has been about drugs used outside a doctor’s care-if you didn’t read all 120 posts so far.

    The people at the start of this thread apparently didn’t have a script for marijuana so I must conclude that you are being kind of a dumbass.

    Elvis used to swipe PDR’s from doctor’s offices to help manage his drug interactions so I guess I’m not all that impressed but then I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

  122. #122 |  Pinandpuller | 

    I think we should take kids away from libertarians who tell them,” Do it because I told you to.”

  123. #123 |  will killam | 

    Meth used to be available to the public as Desoxyn. I once took it for weight loss and it sure worked. They took it off the market for public consumption but the military has tons of it for the hired killers they use. Up and down pills to control them and use them when needed. I know a pilot and they chemically control their alertness and shifts, time to kill wake up and take some meth, at the end of the shift take downers and fall out.

  124. #124 |  Darlene | 

    Well, I didn’t read EVERY posting but I can tell you this….pot is NOT harmless……I smoked it for 15 years and it was the hardest thing I’ve ever done in giving it up. You have to actually face life staight when times are tough….If we smoke our kids smoke and I just don’t want that kind of legacy for my children. When you’re high you never amount to your true potential – you hide from everything!!!

    If you want to smoke pot then keep it where your kids don’t have access to it, don’t smoke it around them (as when they are in bed), and don’t smoke in areas of the home the children are in.

  125. #125 |  trin | 

    Highnumber: when my kid was in school the DARE program just came in for a week, no announcement ahead of time, no permission slip.

    Now, 10 yrs later, in that same school system, it remains that way.
    Even though kids need a permission slip to see the President tell them to say in school. They’ve needed a permission slip for “sex ed” all along too.

    But DARE, zip, nada.. not even “this is what we’ll be doing this week and here are some of the printed materials for your reference.”

    (My child came home, suddenly depressed, because her family did not look like most of the other families in the school. Something she and her classmates had never previously considered. It’s been 10-12 years and I don’t think she’s ever really shaken it. )

  126. #126 |  trin | 

    addenda, a chunk of the DARE material was preaching that kids shouldn’t pick on other kids because their families “look different” … (Sesame Street did the same lesson without the fall out!) and suddenly it BECAME an issue that some families weren’t 2 parents, 2.5 kids and a dog.

  127. #127 |  “D.A.R.E.: Ripping Families Apart Since 1983″ | 

    […] Children inform on their parents. [Radley Balko] […]

  128. #128 |  ps | 

    They didn’t bring down the Berlin Wall. They just moved it across the Atlantic.

  129. #129 |  WhiskeyJim | 

    At over 100 posts, I’m surprised no one has mentioned what has to be going on in the child’s mind.

    He just ratted out his own parents and was sent to a foster home while his parents went to jail. Not only is he traumatized, but he has to live with the fact that he is responsible.

    Lots of kids go through psychological hell trying to figure out their role in family disruptions. This kid has no question.

    I can not believe DARE did what they did. Good lord.

    BTW, a short generation ago, I can’t believe any kid would rat out their parents.

  130. #130 |  RedSC | 

    A little common sense here. If you disagree with the marijuana laws, then work on getting them changed, but until then, smoking doobies is illegal, and will get you busted.

    What kind of a lesson are you teaching your children when you decide that you have the right to break some law you don’t agree with? What if they follow your example and decide that shoplifting should not be illegal? Or murder?

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