What Boobs

Tuesday, September 21st, 2010

From Reason’s “Brickbats”:

Attorney Brittney Horstman was scheduled to visit a client in the Miami, Florida, Federal Detention Center. But when she went through the metal detector her underwire bra set it off, and guards refused to let her in. She reminded them that federal officials sent out a memo a few years ago specifically telling guards that they must allow attorneys wearing underwire bras in. But they wouldn’t relent. So she stepped into a restroom and removed her bra. They still refused to let her in. This time because prison dress code requires women to wear a bra.

Digg it |  reddit |  del.icio.us |  Fark

37 Responses to “What Boobs”

  1. #1 |  Bob | 

    Some of those bras have enough metal to be reforged into a Katana, or a 1911 Colt .45 ACP variant.

    All a prisoner would have to do is reform the underwire in the Prison Blacksmithing Shop, them make the ancillary parts in the Prison Foundry and Machine Shop.

    Of course, a quick trip to the Prison High Explosives Lab to make the ammo would also be needed.

    Prisons today are very well equipped.

  2. #2 |  Derfel Cadarn | 

    I have to know does she have to wear panties? Another a great place to pick up dates.

  3. #3 |  Dave Krueger | 

    This is precisely why I get so pissed off when I hear reports that there are no well paid jobs for unskilled workers in the U.S. I mean, just what the fuck do we have a public sector for if not for that.

  4. #4 |  Cynical in CA | 

    Thanks for keeping me abreast of the news.

  5. #5 |  Stephen | 


    I haven’t found it for Miami yet but many others do require panties. I read a story not too long ago about a woman being barred from visitation because she wasn’t wearing any.

  6. #6 |  Jerith | 

    I’ve seen this sort of issue with bras with some prisoners who are so flat-chested it just seems illogical. Nothing to hold up! Maybe it was a single case, but it was the one that was reported on.

    In this case, I support (Ha!) Brittney. Managers should take a -hands on- approach and not just rely on a -memo- that could just be a little sheet pinned to a mostly ignored notice board. Go TELL them.

    Something something, mammaries innuendo, something something.

  7. #7 |  MacGregory | 

    “….prison dress code requires women to wear a bra.”

    Yet jock straps and butt plugs for male visitors remain optional.

  8. #8 |  oscar | 

    this thread is useless without pics

  9. #9 |  ClubMedSux | 

    Puns aside, any suggestions that these guards are simply dimwitted, mindless bureaucrats is 100% wrong. These guards knew EXACTLY what they were doing: intentionally harassing a lawyer for having the gall to represent a prisoner. I recently had lunch with a law student who spent this past summer working on a prisoners’ rights class action suit and she said the guards routinely employed all sorts of tactics to try and intimidate her–and that’s how they treated a 5-foot, 100-lb., 20-something law student. One can only imagine the harassment that a career defense attorney undergoes on a daily basis.

  10. #10 |  Dan Z | 


    Attorney Horstman can be seen in the last picture on this weblink.

  11. #11 |  Bee | 

    Messing with an attorney might provide a momentary thrill, but it surely does not do to piss them off too much.

  12. #12 |  RomanCandle | 

    I have to admit, there is something pretty sweet about a lawyer having to deal with this sort of thing.

    After all, it’s lawyers who have contributed the most to our overly-litigious, busybody culture where common sense and the spirit of the rules always take a back seat to these zero-tolerance, minorly Kafka-esque interpretations of the law.

    Talk about poetic justice.

  13. #13 |  qwints | 

    Wrong way round at prisions. Defense attorneys are at the mercy of the guards to maintain access with their clients.

  14. #14 |  Marty | 

    prison guards are the lowest scum in society. has anyone ever heard of an honorable prison guard (Tom Hanks’ character in the Green Mile doesn’t count)?

    I’ve witnessed many instances of unnecessary cruelty being gleefully dished out by jailhouse and prison guards. Slime.

    Prisoners and visitors are more at risk of being violated by guards than the inmates.

  15. #15 |  Scott | 

    “Hello prison guard, what’s happening? Uh, we have sort of a problem here. Yeah, you apparently didn’t let an attorney in to see her client because she was wearing an underwire bra. Yeah, see, we’re letting attorneys with underwire bras in to see their clients now. Did you see the memo about this? Yeah. If you could just go ahead and make sure you do that from now on, that will be great. And uh, I’ll go ahead and make sure you get another copy of that memo, mmmkay? Thaaaanks.”

  16. #16 |  celticdragonchick | 

    prison guards are the lowest scum in society. has anyone ever heard of an honorable prison guard (Tom Hanks’ character in the Green Mile doesn’t count)?

    My dad comes to mind.

    He used to complain to me how other guards liked to rough up the prisoners for no reason.
    He previously has taught high school science for twenty years. I think it depressed him a bit to see his former students who didn’t give a shit in class end up as inmates in his facility…but not half so much as the students who were wondering how the fuck to get away from him, I imagine!

  17. #17 |  EH | 

    My dad comes to mind.

    I don’t want to be random asshole stranger on the internet about this, but consider the possibility that your dad was not telling you the whole story.

  18. #18 |  Bot | 

    I think this is a great way to keep all women out of prison.

  19. #19 |  Marty | 

    #16 | celticdragonchick

    I really hope your dad is the exception to the rule. Even if your dad is an honorable man, this is the most dishonorable profession I can think of. The jailers don’t care who they serve, as long as they get to inflict cruelty on the unfortunates who are locked up. Look at how dishonorable our soldiers were who ran the prisons in Iraq. Guantanimo. The Gulags. The night stick sodomizing thugs in New York. Watch the videos of how gleeful they were as they tortured the inmates.

    I’ve been in a lot of jails and prisons and have talked to a lot of people who were incarcerated or worked there. I never ran into a guard and came away with respect for them. It’s the most horrible, soul-killing job I’ve ever seen. The ones I saw who weren’t abusive, just trudged through the job. The others were openly delighted at the misery they inflicted or saw inflicted. I’m ashamed that I didn’t do more to try to help the victims.

  20. #20 |  pam | 

    My advice to her is get a push-up. Ha, fixed.

    But I know, when I clear security at the maximum security prison for juveniles in Walnut Grove, MS I breathe a sigh of relief. It’s unnerving and stressful. Hundreds of people waiting in line for hours, some left with one hour of visitation instead of 4 due to the long slow moving line through security. One time a Mom was turned away because she wore open-toed shoes. It was July in the deep south. Anyway, she hadn’t seen her son in a long time and was distraught especially since her husband and son’s girlfriend got in ahead of her. Someone in line went to their car to get her a pair of socks. Not good enough, still turned away. Granny’s in sleeveless blouses, womens shorts hitting the mid knee instead of below the knee, jeans too tight on a person weighing 200 lbs of which everything is tight, wrong color t-shirt, am instead of pm, I’ve seen turned away. It’s the only juvenile prison in the state so people travel from all over to get there. I travel 900 miles from Chicago so I always keep my luggage in my car that way I can change into whatever they want at a moments notice. I can’t be turned away, I come too far.

    But the summit of all bullsh*t is what the inmates have to go through to get into visitation. It borders on the perverse and most of the inmates are under 18. A good job for an out of work priest, wink, wink. Since GEO (immigrant detention) took over the facility , it has gotten very weird. The inmate I visit, although he treasures his visits, doesn’t want visits anymore cause of it. Alot of the kids are in for non-violent drug crimes but had a prior(s) so that’s why they are in the max for kiddies (charged as adults) and now this kind of humiliation.

  21. #21 |  Mario | 

    I remember, from when I was kid, restaurants with dress codes keeping an ugly coat and tie on hand for patrons who had arrived underdressed. Couldn’t the prison do the same with bras?

    And, for the record, if bras are mandatory, what’s the policy on bullet bras?

  22. #22 |  CJJScout | 

    Was she hot?

  23. #23 |  CRNewsom | 

    On prisons and prison guards:

    It doesn’t start or end with visitations. Have you ever tried to wipe your ass with your hands cuffed in front of you? Sometimes they leave you in your cell that way. Slamming doors is the only way they’re closed, even at 2AM, so good luck sleeping. I hope you can eat in 3 minutes, because that’s all the time you have. The rules change on an hourly basis. Toothbrush and toothpaste disappear on you randomly (and it’s not other inmates).

    The list goes on and on. You can claim that these people deserve punishment, and maybe you’re right. However, is it that hard to do what you say and say what you do?

  24. #24 |  JS | 

    My sister is an x-ray technician at a hospital that has one floor reserved for inmates from the prison system. She comes home crying sometimes because of how the guards treat the sick inmates. She says it’s just totally uneccessary. Her husband, my brother in law gives a pretty typical and unsympathetic response when he says stuff like “Well you have to consider why they’re in there.” As if them breaking some law and getting sent to prison means they should not be shown any human decency but treated like enemies. I think his attitude is so typical and a big part of the reason we lock up so many people in this horrible country.

  25. #25 |  Cynical in CA | 

    They’ll never take me alive.

  26. #26 |  SamK | 

    The county lockup I spent 90 in…spectacular guards. Friendly, helpful, even-handed. Nobody got dominated or beat down, even the crazy motherfucker that got put in the cell next to me who kept screaming about the dogs trying to eat him. Don’t like cops, guards are even worse generally, and the accommodations sucked balls, but those guys deserve recognition. If every official in the criminal justice system acted like them I wouldn’t bitch about it.

  27. #27 |  Jane | 

    As a woman who hates bras with wires in them, I can tell you it’s not that easy to find the non-wireless kind.

    Prison guards are, as a rule, people too stupid to be cops (I know, hard to imagine) and most of them are criminals who just haven’t been caught yet. But maybe that’s just Mississippi where the average IQ is 30 (and, yes, that includes lawyers).

  28. #28 |  Mannie | 

    It’s ironic, I guess, but the Screws are often treated almost as badly as the Cons. I worked with a screw during his off days, and they had joined in with the cons in a lawsuit against management over bad treatment.

    If the screws in the prison system are sick Mike Foxtrots, the administration is even sicker.

    Don’t let them take you alive.

  29. #29 |  celticdragonchick | 

    @ Marty

    The job really changed his temperament a lot, and not for the better. I wish he had never taken the job. It was at a minimum security facility in Riverside County, so he didn’t get the real dangerous cons there, but the soul killing bit is still applicable.

    I wonder how some other people here would deal with how to incarcerate people who simply cannot be allowed to be at large in society. Jailers are a fact of life, so improving conditions and improving oversight seems to be the avenue to pursue I would think.

  30. #30 |  Marty | 

    ‘I wonder how some other people here would deal with how to incarcerate people who simply cannot be allowed to be at large in society. Jailers are a fact of life, so improving conditions and improving oversight seems to be the avenue to pursue I would think.’

    I would start by only incarcerating people who commit real crimes- consensual and victimless activities don’t go to prison. This would clean up a lot of the plea bargaining nonsense and would result in a huge reduction in our prison population.

    Jailers are a fact of life, but they don’t have to be influencing public policy. The worst would hopefully lose their jobs as the prison populations are reduced.

  31. #31 |  Joe | 

    Maybe the jailers are just misogynists.

    Although is there a word for people who hate lawyers?

  32. #32 |  hattio | 

    Joe asks,

    ” is there a word for people who hate lawyers?”

  33. #33 |  hattio | 

    Joe asks,

    ” is there a word for people who hate lawyers?”

    Yeah. Americans.

  34. #34 |  Jane | 

    I’m a lawyer and I hate lawyers.

  35. #35 |  Greg | 

    Stanford Prison Experiment.

    Are there still really people that don’t understand how the human brain is hardwired?


  36. #36 |  Toastrider | 

    Jane: Kinda like my remark about the tax code:

    ‘You think you hate taxes and the tax code? The poor stupid bastards who work for the IRS have to deal with that shit EVERY DAY.’

  37. #37 |  DJC | 

    I’m with Mario (#21) on this one…the debating society of which I was a member in college required that gentlemen wear a tie to speak from the floor. The bylaws specifically required that the Speaker appoint a Purveyor of Ties who was to keep ties on hand in the room in case a member who was improperly attired wanted to speak.

    Maybe something similar should be in order here? We don’t want to deny people access to their appointed counsel because of prison bureaucrats following picayune regulations to the letter.