The problem isn’t bad cop, the problem is bad training. Cops aren’t supposed to think. Police departments don’t want their officers to think; they want them to follow clearly explicated guidelines in the form of directives and orders. In turn, cops apply the same standard of behavior to ordinary citizens who haven’t been boot camped into that frame of mind.

Clashes inevitably result, especially when the cop’s knowledge of the law is far more minimal than necessary.

This incident shows how effective communication can be established and how that can prevent abuses of authority from worsening.

The fact that this incident ended as well as it did is nearly a miracle, because the cop’s superiors took control of a situation he clearly messed up and managed to come to an acceptable resolution of the dispute without resorting to the use of force or further infringements on the cameraman’s civil liberties.

Good, professional leadership from the superior officer. We should encourage this. Not the harassment, but the reaction to the harassment, which was a belated recognition on the part of the offending officer that he had behaved wrongly and an apology for that.

Should never have happened, of course, but it was managed well once it did happen. Unless you want to see criminal charges to be filed against him, which I’m sure can be convincingly advocated, but someone else can try that.

If I say that I wish it had been Sarah Palin instead of Ted Stevens, does that still make me a bad person?

Oh, and best wishes and prayers to former NASA head Sean O’Keefe and his son Kevin. However you may feel about the government funding NASA, you have to respect O’Keefe’s ability to do more with less and less $ every year.

Cop video is a brilliant example of exactly how police interactions ought to go.

[...]

Did the cop overreact? Absolutely. Did he have a less-than-acceptable understanding of the law? Yes.

I’m thinking these two sentences negate each other.

But in the end, you have to understand where he’s coming from.

I’m sick of this kind of badge licking. Please. The guy was unprofessional and abusing his authority, there is no reason to give the cop a pass.

We all have shitty days when we explode for ill-advised reasons. Difference is, most average citizens can’t lock people in cages when they become agitated.

Which is why “we have to understand where he is coming from” is completely and totally tone deaf.

Cop did nothing illegal, just really douchey, for which he offered a polite explanation and apology.

I wish more of these situations played out the way this one did.

It is better than the way these situations typically play out, but it is still far from ideal.

Did the cop overreact? Absolutely. Did he have a less-than-acceptable understanding of the law? Yes. But in the end, you have to understand where he’s coming from. We all have shitty days when we explode for ill-advised reasons. Difference is, most average citizens can’t lock people in cages when they become agitated.

Cop did nothing illegal, just really douchey, for which he offered a polite explanation and apology.

I wish more of these situations played out the way this one did.

It’s telling that the officer’s implication is that lawyers are the only people who *can* know their rights. He demonstrates an attitude that citizens are best thought of as stupid.

But the kid did start to hassle him about why he was there and the cop was clear: he was called by the property owner to clear the parking lot.

Really? The kid hassles him? Now that’s rich. Shooting video of someone where the expectation of privacy is very low is not hassling, especially for a public official. See that italicized word there? That means when said official is doing his job his expectation of privacy is also, generally pretty low as well.

ut the cop only attempted to have him stop filming at the end. In the first interaction, he didn’t say anything about the camera, just got in the kid’s face.

Almost surely because he was filming him. And if it was the case that it was the first guy he happened upon why not ask him to leave? Why not say, “the owner of this property wants the parking lot kept clear, so unless you have business here I’m going to have to ask you to leave?” Professional, courteous, and relates to why the cop is actually supposed to be there. In other words, a complete failure on the cops part.

Did he have to do it in such a prickish way?

He failed in his initial contact with Mueller. He didn’t say, “the owner of this property wants the parking lot kept clear, so unless you have business here I’m going to have to ask you to leave?” He didn’t say anything like that when he first approached Mueller. It was a failure on the police officers part, it was unprofessional, and on top of it the reason for that failure was to intimidate…to bully.

Documenting all that is perfectly reasonable. Putting it on the web is perfectly reasonable.

And yes, you keep defending the cop here. You keep trying to put Mueller as the bad guy when he didn’t try to intimidate anyone.

BINGO! POW! Never fails. Anytime a citizen asserts their Constitutional rights to LEO, that response is number one on the hit parade. I could have scripted that conversation I’ve heard it so many times.

I didn’t mean to defend the cops douchey actions. They were, obviously, douchey. And they probably did cross the line into abuse of power (I don’t know the specifics of what the cops can and can’t ask for in that jurisdiction). But the cop only attempted to have him stop filming at the end. In the first interaction, he didn’t say anything about the camera, just got in the kid’s face. It might have been because he was filming or might have just been the first person he happened upon. Hard to know.

But the kid did start to hassle him about why he was there and the cop was clear: he was called by the property owner to clear the parking lot. He said he had no problem with what was going on, but the guy who owned the property wanted it cleared and, as such, the cop was duty-bound to protect that individual’s property rights. Did he have to do it in such a prickish way? Obviously not. But when the kid started to challenge him as to why he was there in the first place, he was clearly in the wrong and didn’t really seem to give a shit about the owner’s rights, only about making a point.

I think you won this thread hands down.

I guess an athiest would call that a plane to nowhere.

I should clarify. The property owner wanted the people out of the parking lot. The cops were there on a call. They were acting at his request. I have no problem with them enforcing that request albeit doing so in a responsible manner.

Ok, so the property rights argument was not really true then. We don’t know what the actual owner of the property would have wanted regarding shooting video of people in a parking lot easily accessible to the public–i.e. where the expectation of privacy is very low.

Also, the cop didn’t really stop the kid from videotaping. I think when he approached him the second time and asked him to hand it to a friend, it was because he wanted to have a more candid conversation with the kid.

Actually it was an attempt to intimidate, which the cop admits to on video. It was a douche move and one that is technically an abuse of authority as is asking for license, registration and proof of insurance….considering the guy taking the video is on foot.

The cop new he wasn’t going to get anywhere with this guy, IMO. He knew the guy didn’t have to produce ID, now if he’d asked him to identify himself that is another thing altogether.

He didn’t force the kid to stop and didn’t even make all that effort to get him to stop. Again, not the best thing to do, but all-in-all, I’m more bothered by a self-identifying libertarian getting bothered by cops acting at the request of a private property owner to clear people off his property.

Which the cop failed to do. He wasn’t doing his job, he was annoyed he was being videotaped and acted like a douche bag. The level of professionalism by the motorcycle officer is severely lacking. Back to training I’d say at the very least.

Defend the douche bag if you must, but frankly I think standing there and video taping him is no justification for that kind of behavior from a supposed professional.

Kinda sad that anyone would celebrate a death. I’m not sure who it says more about…

Not mourning = celebrating? I think you need to buy a better dictionary.

And I’m sorry, but for most of Stevens’ career, U.S. senators made well over six figures in today’s dollars (I believe they made $170,000 last year), plus travel and office expenses. That’s hardly “a relative pauper.” I’m sorry Ted was hurt to be surrounded by millionaires when he himself was only in the top 5 percent of income earners. Poor thing. That’s not an excuse to start handing over federal contracts in exchange for kickbacks to relatives.

I’m sympathetic to the argument that Alaska is hostage to federal regulation, and that much of the land there is owned by the federal government. So spend your energy loosening the feds’ grip. Stevens’ spent his raiding the Treasury. Alaska by far and away had the highest dollars in vs. dollars out ratio in the country.

I’ll take your word for it that the man loved Alaska more than he loved himself. But I don’t live there. And he wasted my tax money on useless works projects that now bear his name. I wouldn’t wish death on anyone who hasn’t intentionally cause the death of others. But I sure as hell won’t mourn Ted Stevens. Or Robert Byrd. Or Dan Rostenkowski.

That is a very witty statement Boyd. Doubledoubleplusgood!

You may already know this trick and it may not work for you. But just in case . . .

As soon as you feel the migraine coming on, take a No-Doz (or other high caffeine tablet). This can often arrest or ameliorate the symptoms.

I should clarify. The property owner wanted the people out of the parking lot. The cops were there on a call. They were acting at his request. I have no problem with them enforcing that request albeit doing so in a responsible manner.

Also, the cop didn’t really stop the kid from videotaping. I think when he approached him the second time and asked him to hand it to a friend, it was because he wanted to have a more candid conversation with the kid. He knew he sorta messed up the first time and was attempting (poorly) to own up to it and probably didn’t want his mea culpa recorded. He didn’t force the kid to stop and didn’t even make all that effort to get him to stop. Again, not the best thing to do, but all-in-all, I’m more bothered by a self-identifying libertarian getting bothered by cops acting at the request of a private property owner to clear people off his property.

Oh, and glad you’re feeling better, Radley. My partner gets migraines which usually put her out for at least a day. Coffee ice cream (applied externally and internally) helps.