Sunday Links

Sunday, July 25th, 2010

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44 Responses to “Sunday Links”

  1. #1 |  SJE | 

    re: raw food. The lede says “Regulators say the rules exist for safety and fairness.” Is that for the regulator’s job safety and wage fairness? Yep, bans on pretty much everything, from booze, drugs, fatty food, was for our own safety and fairness. That worked out so well, lets extend it to milk.

  2. #2 |  Elemenope | 

    Hm, re:Repubs and the Carceral State, it seems universally that when governments go broke, things get better on the criminal justice front. Fiscal demand is driving the marijuana legalization debate in ways that reasoned argumentation never did, and now states going broke may force a reexamination of the prison-industrial complex.

  3. #3 |  PW | 

    Here’s another story for the links. A guy gets tasered only 23 seconds into a traffic stop for declining to get out of his car. They arrested him for resisting, but the charges were dropped because the video showed he had no reason to know why he was being detained. There’s an interesting back story in the lawsuit too – this same pair of cops apparently pulled over the same guy a few weeks earlier claiming he had a warrant out, but when they got to the station that information was determined to be false and they had to release him.

  4. #4 |  Elemenope | 


    I don’t think Caveat Emptor works very well in the arena of food preparation, mainly because the conditions under which food is prepared is rarely under the supervision of the buyer. If you wanna eat raw foods, good for you, but regulation restricting that to private consumption isn’t exactly Orwell’s boot; drink your raw milk at home. On the other hand, outright bans on things are almost never justifiable. There should be a structure in place that regulates the distribution of raw foods that is not unduly burdensome (as this clearly is).

    Then again, all other things being equal raiding a store for a health regulation infraction with guns drawn is fucking retarded.

  5. #5 |  PW | 

    More on the story above. The “internal investigation” cleared the officers, of course.

  6. #6 |  Bob | 

    More on the story above. The “internal investigation” cleared the officers, of course.

    Well of course the internal investigation cleared the officers. They said the magic words “He reached for his waistband and the console”.

    I wonder how many white people in Missouri are stopped for not having their front license plate screwed on right? Personally, I keep my one Missouri license plate on the back, when it should be on the front (It’s an 18 ton tow license, it goes on the front) I do this because other states want the plate on the back. No one has ever given me any shit.

    Here’s my favorite line:

    During the stop, an officer can be seen touching his nose, which indicated to the other officer that he smelled marijuana, Trapp said. The other officer signals that he does not smell marijuana. No marijuana was found in the car.

    I guess the original plan was to bust them for pot, because.. you know… all black guys have pot in the car. But that didn’t pan out so they went right for plan B, “He reached for his waistband and / or the console”. In order to jack up the encounter.

    Yeah, the cops don’t profile in Columbia, Missouri.

  7. #7 |  JThompson | 

    @#4: And to expand on what you said, even if the raw milk crowd is perfectly happy inflicting food poisoning on themselves, everyone else may not be happy to have it inflicted on them. With many kinds of food poisoning, once a person has it, until they’re better (and in some cases for a period beyond the disappearance of symptoms) they’re contagious.

    I’m cool with Bob giving himself explosive diarrhea, if that’s his thing. I’m not so cool with Bob handing me my Ultra Supreme Mega Cheeseburger with norovirus, rotavirus, campylobacter, or whatever on his hands and passing it off to me and everyone else.

  8. #8 |  Inflection Point Diary – Shit you won’t see picking through the corpse of the New York Fucking Times or whatever : Inflection Point Diary | 

    […] story is here, via this post from Radley Balko. Watch the video to see the cops clearing a room full of figs and arugula with […]

  9. #9 |  overgoverned | 

    The part of the raw food raid story that made me boil with rage was this part:

    “Agencies that participated in the raid on Rawesome included the Los Angeles County Department of Public Health, the Los Angeles County district attorney’s office, the California Department of Food and Agriculture, the FDA and the U.S. Department of Agriculture.”

    At least five agencies from federal, state, and local governments — to confiscate some raw honey and ten gallons of unpasteurized milk. Too. Much. Fucking. Government. If they have that much time on their hands, it’s time to fire them.

  10. #10 |  ClassAction | 

    Raw milk from grass fed cows? Absolutely disgusting! I demand for safety and fairness purposes that all my milk come from overstuffed factory farm cows that are repeatedly impregnated, injected with bovine growth hormone, filled industrial strength antibiotics necessitated by the proliferation of diseases caused by their filthy conditions, and then which is heated and homogenized to the point where any resemblance to actual milk is completely destroyed!

  11. #11 |  Marty | 

    #7 | JThompson |

    ‘@#4: And to expand on what you said, even if the raw milk crowd is perfectly happy inflicting food poisoning on themselves…’

    so… I’ve been looking for a single report of food poisoning to go with these armed raids and businesses/farms being shut down, but I can’t seem to find any… can you help?

  12. #12 |  SJE | 

    re: Columbia Missouri: check out the comments on the website. There seems to be a lot of commenters are disgusted with the LEOs actions in this case. What is it about Missouri: there have been a number of police over-reaction stories there. Then again, maybe its because they don’t ban recording devices.

  13. #13 |  SJE | 

    Marty: people do get sick from raw milk, but the numbers these days are very small. Many of the milk scandals in the past were from outright adulteration (e.g. adding plaster dust) and not bacterial contamination. That is the sort of thing that happens in China and is not affected by pasteurization.

    The big question I have for the FDA and food police is why can’t we get raw milk, or raw milk cheese, but we can get raw meat?

    You trust us to cook it ourselves, or even eat it raw if we like. You can buy extremely rare meat in a restaurant. We are happy to take the risks, which include E.coli, salmonella, campylobacter, and more. Are you going to ban food that is not pre-cooked or irradiated, as some public health people were advocating years ago?

  14. #14 |  Aresen | 

    Injustice Everywhere has posted its police misconduct map for the first half of 2010.

    Just out of curiousity, I’d like to know if there is any correlation between the Injustice Everywhere map and a map showing LEO deaths derived from the NLEOMF post linked to on Thursday. I suspect the data batch for the latter is too small to provide a meaningful statistic, but I would not be surprised to find a high correlation.

  15. #15 |  Eyewitness | 

    “I still can’t believe they took our yogurt,” said Rawesome volunteer Sea J. Jones, a few days after the raid. “There’s a medical marijuana shop a couple miles away, and they’re raiding us because we’re selling raw dairy products?”

    This quisling is happy to throw someone else under the bus.

  16. #16 |  Packratt | 


    I talk about that here along with a map that shows LEO homicidal fatalities.

  17. #17 |  Alex | 

    Great post, that dude was full of crap from the start.

  18. #18 |  anarch | 

    Since the raw-milk farm contained stockpiles of biological weaponry, I hope the cops have armed themselves with squirt-guns of the contraband to protect them on their next cattle-products rustling venture.

  19. #19 |  Marty | 

    #11 | SJE-

    I understand pasteurization is safer… I’m just saying I can’t find anything pointing to someone got sick, so the inspectors raided. I think the govt would have a much stronger case if they were responding to concerns of citizens who became ill vs running into businesses and farms with their guns out, because people were violating codes.

    and I agree with everything in your post…

  20. #20 |  Elemenope | 

    This quisling is happy to throw someone else under the bus.

    Quite the contrary, as has often been said, personal experience is what drives a real enjoyment of freedom; after having been raided (and not liking it) this person is now capable of empathizing with their marijuana peddling neighbors.

  21. #21 |  Matt | 

    Re. the unforthcoming CHP:

    I’ve said it before, and I’ll repeat it until the day I die: cops (and everyone else sucking the tax teat) ought to have streaming webcams and GPS units stitched to their foreheads.

  22. #22 |  Aresen | 

    @ Packratt | July 25th, 2010 at 8:51 pm

    Thanks. Interesting correlation, which tends to support what I said, although I would still say that the amount of data is too small to provide a meaningful stat.

    I believe that the number of cases of LEOs killing others is much higher (IIRC, someone mentioned a 100+ figure for California alone last year on another thread). I would predict that there would be a strong correlation between officer-caused fatalities and any of the following:
    1) Closed records for officer misconduct files;
    2) Lack of an independent or civilian review panel;
    3) Existence of and strength of an asset forefeiture law;
    4) Existence of a SWAT team and armament possessed by the police force;
    5) Whether the chief LEO of the district was elected or appointed.

  23. #23 |  Packratt | 


    True, the dataset for homicidal fatalities is so small that any correlation that we might see is as likely to be random than an actual causality. The takeaway is that there is nothing in the data that even remotely indicates that the homicide rate for LEOs is linked in any way to the availability of information about incidents of police misconduct and, if there is, the data actually shows an inverse relationship in that, when/where we talk more openly about misconduct, there appears to be lower rates of violence against police.

    As for your predictions, that would require a very complex bit of research to flesh out, especially since things like civilian review panels and forfeiture laws because, again, the data set is small. The only way to improve the data set is to expand the range of time we use and, in most cases, we can’t do that because the expanded time span would preclude the existence of those things. (i.e. if we expand the range of time looking at LEO fatalities to 5 yrs instead of one then this would predate civilian reviews in most locations).

    In any case, I ran some more numbers and, as to your original question, I don’t see any definitive link between misconduct rates and LEO homicidal fatalities for 2009 or 2010, at least via a cursory glance at the data.


  24. #24 |  Mattocracy | 

    Anyone surprised that Maricopa County is leading the way in misconduct? No wait, Atlanta, Ga…with Arpio coming in second.

  25. #25 |  Aresen | 

    Mattocracy | July 25th, 2010 at 11:30 pm
    Anyone surprised that Maricopa County is leading the way in misconduct? No wait, Atlanta, Ga…with Arpio coming in second.

    That’s like predicting you will find a lot of dead fish near the BP wellsite, isn’t it? :)

    To be fair to Arpaio*, however, I have to point out that the Injustice Everywhere information shows a slightly below average rate of reports of police misconduct for AZ as a whole. Other states come in much higher, with OK at the top.

    *It hurts to say that.

  26. #26 |  JThompson | 

    @#11: Sorry, was out for a bit.
    The worst one I can think of happened in England with a salmonella variant that killed an entire family (And the cows). It was a mutant strain that was ridiculously aggressive and resistant to most antibiotics. They also spread it to a few other families through skin contact. Things like that are rare to the point of not mattering much.

    Campylobacter (Which I mentioned) is common in milk, as is ecoli if the processing system is contaminated with fecal matter. Campy isn’t going to kill you, but it’ll give you diarrhea for a week or so. And you can still spread it to other people.

  27. #27 |  Matt | 

    Elemenope: “There should be a structure in place…”

    There are only two ways humans can interact: reason or force.

    What, precisely, is “structure”?

  28. #28 |  Packratt | 

    @25 Aresen,

    Actually, if you scroll down to near the end of the statistical report you can see the local agency rankings for the 20 worst agencies categorized by size.

    In those lists, Atlanta Georgia is the worst of the top 20 for departments of it’s size of 1000+ officers.

    In the list of 20 worst for departments sized 500-999, Maricopa County AZ ranks as the eighth worst in that list.

    The thing to keep in mind is that this is only a 6-month snapshot, so a lot can change by the end of year. I’m hoping to keep the project going at least that long as it’ll be the first full year’s worth of data I’ve collected if I can do it.

  29. #29 |  jeffbbz | 

    @absurd food story

    “Ziploc bags are filled with chicken, beef and pork. Many don’t have an expiration date.” OH MY GOD! WHAT A NIGHTMARE! What a daring expose!

    My other favorite part of the many favorite parts was that this happened in California but they interview the dept. of ag person from Minnesota?

    This article would have seemed to me to be a good chance to highlight our government doing something absurd but it seems that the writers of the story pretty much agreed with them that it ought to be illegal to eat anything but items found in brightly colored boxes of industry approved fishlike substance in vaguely animal shapes and/or go-gurt.

  30. #30 |  Xenocles | 

    “…f the processing system is contaminated with fecal matter.”

    Well, there’s your problem!

  31. #31 |  Elemenope | 

    There are only two ways humans can interact: reason or force.

    What, precisely, is “structure”?

    Force regulated by reason.

    But I’m sure you already knew that and were just being cute.

  32. #32 |  Elemenope | 

    re: Injustice Map

    The question is, what is Maine doing so right, and Oklahoma doing so wrong?

  33. #33 |  Maria | 

    Raw goat milk and biological weaponry aside, I’m still stuck on the “guns drawn” bit.
    Who in their right mind thought that was the appropriate way to enter?
    Are all of us, us non-deputized civilians, seen as being on the same threat level as a take down of a La Linea run meth lab or the cornering of baby rapists and serial killers? If one of the workers had thrown some cashews at the officers would that have been considered assault?
    … Rhetorical questions, don’t answer … Way too fraking early to start drinking …

  34. #34 |  Jay | 

    @Maria – What bothers me a lot about the article is that, in the list of agencies participating in the raid, I don’t see anybody that I would think would or should have the training required to have weapons brandished on a raid. It looks like some health inspectors from a couple of different agencies and a lawyer or two. I don’t know how police agencies are organized in California, but it sounds like a particularly scary bunch to come in over raw milk.

    The cynical side of me wonders how happy these agencies were to be in on something so they can try to maintain relevancy and headlines as California cuts budgets to the bone. “You can’t cut us! We’ve got some leads on the source of all this raw milk, Codename: Bessie!”

  35. #35 |  SJE | 

    Campy can kill but, more likely, will make you wish you were dead.

    My favorite Campy story is of a company picnic where they cooked a whole bunch of poultry and then “kept it warm” for 2 days.

  36. #36 |  Aresen | 

    My favorite Campy story is of a company picnic where they cooked a whole bunch of poultry and then “kept it warm” for 2 days.

    Oh, Shits!

  37. #37 |  Yizmo Gizmo | 

    I dished out $8 for that Economist just to read
    that article on US incarceration. The most imprisoned people ever.
    Check out the curve from 1980 to now, you don’t see the plateau
    until around the 2008 crash. Took a meltdown to wake people up;
    we don’t have enough money to imprison 2.3 million. But I’m sure it was fun for all the sanctimonious angry white folks.

  38. #38 |  Rodney Caston | 


    Everyone knows that unpasteurized milk is a gateway drug.

  39. #39 |  divadab | 

    Protecting people from themselves by threatening them with guns. The Retard Empire strikes again!

  40. #40 |  Boyd Durkin | 

    I can buy raw milk in NH. There’s a substantial taste difference from heat treated.

    Make some raw milk homemade ice cream and you’ll be hooked.

    Now, some poor SOB can get shot by POS cop for selling raw milk? Life is cheap to the state.

  41. #41 |  Bronwyn | 

    I want to know… if I have an allergy to milk (pasteurized, grocery store variety) but can eat yogurt, sour cream and ice cream without going into anaphylaxis, could I safely enjoy raw milk?

    Inquiring (and milk-yearnin’) minds want to know!

  42. #42 |  Bob Weber | 

    Re the Mizzou police assault on the motorist in #3 & #6: Couldn’t help but notice in the video that the driver was black and his passenger was a white woman. You’d better fortify yourself before reading the comments to the story. The cop fanboys came out in force with their kneepads and Listerine.

  43. #43 |  Prisons full, coffers empty « Working for Liberty | 

    […] think it’s time to slow down the growth of locking up.” ‘Bout friggin time. (ht: The Agitator) […]

  44. #44 |  Susan | 

    I have an allergy to milk (pasteurized, grocery store variety) but can eat yogurt, sour cream and ice cream without going into anaphylaxis, could I safely enjoy raw milk?