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on Thursday, July 22nd, 2010 at 5:45 pm by Radley Balko
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I have a lot of respect for Mr. Balko, but I have lost a great deal of respect for some of the people who comment on his site just in this thread. Here are some facts: Ms. Sherrod’s father wasn’t just killed by a white man. He was shot in the back over a dispute about some cows by a white farmer, who was tried by a white jury and found not guilty. For Ms. Sherrod to have a suspicion of racism in her dealings of white people isn’t racism, it is an understandable survival skill learned through experience. Having a suspicion of racism is not racist when you have been a victim of racism.
Fact: the NAACP has never accused the Tea Party of being racist. They have asked them to condemn the racist elements that show up occasionally.
Fact: on the same day that FOX News was relentlessly showing the edited Sherrod video, CNN was doing reports about it being misleading. Also, with Ms. Sherrod’s resignation every media outlet had a responsibility to report the story, though they did not have to support Breitbart’s tape as convincing evidence.
The idea that MSNBC and FOX News are two sides of the partisan coin is ridiculous. While Olberman is an obvious partisan, he is also a humourist (how funny he is is not the question), and he regularly admits his mistakes. Even if Maddow may have mislead in her Paul interview (and I am not conceding she did) I defy her detractors to show a history of distortions and misinformation. I defy them also to show that MSNBC has the equivalent of Beck, Hannity, Fox and Friends, O’Reilly or Cavuto. Nor could you point out network wide campaigns on MSNBC similar to FOX News’ Van Jones, ACORN, New Black Panther/Department of Justice campaigns. For the record, I do not watch either channel nor any other televised news network or show.
I might also point out that, for me anyway, turning a person’s name into an insult, as in Maddow becoming “Madcow” is indicative of a rhetorical inanity that belies a limited intelligent position.
B8ovin, I do not dispute that Ms. Sherrod’s experience is horrible. But you can have survival skills and justifiable caution, without promoting racism going forward. And some of her language and positions are frankly unacceptable from a government official.
As for the rest of your positions, are you friggin kidding?
I find nothing “devastating” about her tirade.
It is factually erroneous on a few counts.
In particular, the timeline of FNC airing the video falls well after the administration forced Sherrod to retire.
I doubt that matters to those who want to prop up the narrative of Sherrod that FNC wants to roll back the civil rights era.
Even excusing the “reverse racism” story as a morality tale of redemption, Sherrod insisted that the “8 years of bush” were somehow racist.
In interviews she subsequently attributes racist motives to an entire news channel.
And the record of Glenn Beck defending her on the Tuesday after she was forced out speaks for itself. Yet Sherrod continues to insist that FNC has not “corrected themselves” about the story.
That is patently false.
Back to Maddow, she ignores the inconvenient facts of the story. FNC didn’t air the clip all day, or even before the forced resignation. Those who did comment on it never called for her ouster, and lambasted the administration for its reaction.
Further, apologists for the NAACP statement on the TP activists and racism have insisted that unsubstantiated claims be accepted as true, even in the face of a significant monetary reward being offered for conclusive proof of such utterances from a widely taped event.
Truth is the first casualty of this war.
Neither Maddow or Sherrod is speaking truthfully about FNC.
Nor are their defenders.
“I defy them also to show that MSNBC has the equivalent of Beck, Hannity, Fox and Friends, O’Reilly or Cavuto.”
Sure they do. Just look at their evening lineup
5-6: Chris “Obama makes my leg tingle” Matthews who’s every bit of a gasbag as Beck
6-7: Ed Schultz, left wing radio host turned pundit just like Hannity
7-8: Olbermann, who openly positions himself as a left wing rival to O’Reilly
9-10: Maddow, who looks like she’s just itching to jump into a biker bar fight with the entire Republican Party every time she appears on the air.
They even mimic the Fox roundtable style shows with a bunch of liberals and Scarborough playing the token conservative.
I’m not saying Fox is anything commendable in its own right, but don’t ride in here on a high horse pretending that MSNBC is anything other than a bunch of hackish partisan blowhards pushing a far left political agenda.
Well she is a rabid frothing-at-the-mouth partisan hack who does as much of a disservice to the left side as O’Reilly does to the right. I know quite a few bleeding heart liberals who can’t even stand her because her demeanor is so snide and caustic and her typical “stories” are cheap partisan talking points.
So yeah. Madcow is entirely appropriate.
As to the bar fight, I don’t doubt that she could beat up the majority of Americans in that situation. And it shows why she’s ill suited to be a spokesperson for any political cause…assuming your intent is to convert people to your beliefs. I’m not so sure MSNBC wants to do that though. They seem more interested in throwing red meat to their small but vocal rabid left audience.
B8ovin (#104):” The idea that MSNBC and FOX News are two sides of the partisan coin is ridiculous.”
I concur. MSNBC is far more dishonest and partisan. And, considering Fox News’ record, that is saying A LOT.
I’m glad that Madcow Maddow showed the dishonesty. I also like it when others demonstrate the disgusting propaganda on MSNBC for what it is.
The thing is, under the Bush regime, then it was really time to turn up the heat on Fox and get them to honestly address his out-of-control budgets, Patriot Act outrages, as well as all the foreign invasion disasters and criminal behavior.
But now that we have ObamaPelosiReid, it’s time to put the torch to MSNBC, CBS, CNN, NYT, WP, etc. etc. ad nauseum. For one thing, they didn’t report the outrageous, sneaky time bomb clauses of the Health Care Deform until after it was passed. (Like the 1099 expansion which is going to swamp small businesses. And this is for “health care”? WTBF?)
“Even if Maddow may have mislead in her Paul interview (and I am not conceding she did) I defy her detractors to show a history of distortions and misinformation. I defy them also to show that MSNBC has the equivalent of Beck, Hannity, Fox and Friends, O’Reilly or Cavuto.”
MSNBC is far worse than those people. And, again, that’s saying A LOT.
Go look up Madcow Maddow’s April 19 propaganda blitz, trying to argue that people who marched in support of gun rights on Patriot’s Day, the anniversary of Lexington and Concord were secretly celebrating the mass murderer Timothy McVeigh for killing children and dozens of others. For what would they celebrate him? For not killing the ATF agents he wanted to kill? Really, Maddow?
Then there’s the Oath Keepers she’s trashed with similar slimeball lies.
If you’re not aware of her disgusting dishonesty in trying to link good people to mass murderers and conspiracy lunatics, you haven’t been watching her show.
“Nor could you point out network wide campaigns on MSNBC similar to FOX News’ Van Jones, ACORN, New Black Panther/Department of Justice campaigns.”
I just did. Ever hear of the Tea Party smears they’ve perpetrated. How about the Tea Partiers calling congress critters n*ers lie, repeated by MSNBC hosts, but never, ever substantiated, even when there was copious video available?
“For the record, I do not watch either channel nor any other televised news network or show.”
Then you should not have written what you just wrote. It’s better to be silent and have people guess you’re ignorant than to write some stupid crap and remove all doubt (to paraphrase Twain).
“I might also point out that, for me anyway, turning a person’s name into an insult, as in Maddow becoming “Madcow” is indicative of a rhetorical inanity that belies a limited intelligent position.”
Like the “teabaggers” gag?
Yeah, it’s juvenile, but with that woman, it fits so perfectly it’s very, very hard to resist.
Next, she thought it was funny that while the white farmer was “acting superior” she was deciding how much help to give him – and the whole audience chuckled, as though they all understood and it was a common occurance.
I find the way many people neurotically try to assert dominance in the middle of asking for assistance rather amusing myself. Does that make me racist to?
Elliot:”Then you should not have written what you just wrote. It’s better to be silent and have people guess you’re ignorant than to write some stupid crap and remove all doubt (to paraphrase Twain).”
Really? I take it you have watched Maddow make every comment you disagree with? Or do you read media sites and get clues to the issues you can’t or haven’t seen firsthand and then research the videos? Your argument that I am ignorant is based on the idea I can’t have knowledge without watching directly.
You also show no substantive evidence that Maddow has disseminated. You just show she has stupid opinions. Nothing she has said or reported has led to, for instance, an entire organization dedicated to organizing the poor (read: mostly black) being destroyed on the basis of nothing. I’m not defending Maddow’s opinions, I am defending her record in comparison to what appears to be a FNC network wide record. If you seriously think MSNBC is worse than FOX News because the democrats are in power now I’m not sure we can have a legitimate discussion.
As for racist elements in the Tea party movement, there are plenty of examples. When discussing a black president’s health care bill you don’t have to make a poster of him as a witch doctor. Mark Williams was the head of the Tea Party Express. One look at this “satire” letter regarding the NAACP is enough to show racism at the highest level.
P.W. There are far more conservative guests on MSNBC than on FNC. Despite Matthews feelings for Obama, his guests skew to the right. The most recent I could find showed 55% conservative to 41% liberal. I’m taking the figures with a grain of salt as they come from Media Matters (oh no, George Soros!). However, you would be hard pressed to show numbers anywhere near that for FNC. There is not a single equivalent of Pat Buchanan on FNC, nor an equivalent of Malkin or Coulter on MSNBC as regular guests.
Jeff Spears: “FNC didn’t air the clip all day, or even before the forced resignation. Those who did comment on it never called for her ouster”
Huh? It is hardly an accomplishment to not call for the ouster of a person if you don’t address the issue until after her resignation. While FNC may or may not have “shown the clip all day” they pushed the story all day, to the point that Shepard Smith criticized his own network for doing so, to the point that Bill O’Reilly apologized, to the point that Laura Inghram admitted a mistake. And while FOX News’ on air shows may not have pushed for Sherrod’s resignation and reported on it prior to that point, it’s web site certainly did.
And I don’t understand your blindness to what I wrote. The NAACP did not limit their criticism to the bill signing parade/charade incident. They were addressing the movement as a whole. Do you honestly think Mark Williams “letter” wasn’t racist? Have you never seen some of the interviews with Tea Party members in which they describe overt racism (including horrendous attacks on hispanics and middle eastern peoples)? The NAACP has two purposes: to fight racism and promote opportunities for black Americans. Is it a surprise that they find racism BY SOME in the newest and most reported political movement troubling?
Joe- In what way has Sherrod promoted racism? By telling how she overcame hers? By insisting that the struggle is not white vs.black but the poor overcoming the obstacles put in their way by the system? If you want to accuse her of “classcism” I won’t argue with you in the least. But given her position isn’t that recognition of what farmers face an attribute?
Boyd, Tim Russert was not a very good journalist. He threw softballs just a bit faster than Larry King. Maybe he was a congenial fellow, but that doesn’t make one a good reporter. And, it certainly is no indication of trying–just the opposite.
John Stossel and Andrew Napolitano are head and shoulders above just about anyone else on TV these days. They have a respect for individual rights and don’t march in lockstep with most of the Big Government loving media (whether it’s Obama worship, GodBlessAmerica911SupportTheTroops, or the War on Drugs).
On the net, Radley Balko, Warren Meyer, and Billy Beck give three different perspectives, giving some unique and desperately needed angles on news stories, many of which would not otherwise be known by many.
By calling Tea Parties, Breitbart, and Fox News racist. Are those groups partisan? Sure. MSNBC, CNN, Democrats, and the NAACP are partisan too. Racist? No. And Breitbart and Fox were reacting to the NAACP. Which by the way, like Sherrod, uses racist hyperbole to its partisan advantage. While her language is most assuredly racist, I am willing to think she is just saying it to try to gain some political advantage. Still, it is BS. Which is why the link I had above to Morgan Freeman saying it is time to not talk about race makes so much sense. It is time to go back to thinking about this country as out of many, one.
B8ovin (#116):“I take it you have watched Maddow make every comment you disagree with?”
Yes, I have. I watched the specific episodes of her show when she made the specific comments which I addressed above (April 19 smears, Oath Keepers, Window War). You can go to my blog and find a number of citations and direct links to the very episodes of her show to which I refer.
You admitted you don’t watch these stations, and yet you presume to know enough to call the only TV network which isn’t filled with pro-ObamaPelosiReid sympathizers as worse than the most egregious passel of “left”-leaning sycophants on a major TV network.
I’m sorry, but your ignorance is of no use in this discussion.
As a libertarian atheist (anti drug prohibition, pro open immigration, anti foreign military involvement, etc.) I can tick off dozens of points an hour on which I disagree with the Fox hosts. But when I watch MSNBC, I’d wear out the pause and rewind button to be able to make a comprehensive list of factual errors, distortions, and blatant lies. It’s just that bad. I get a headache watching these rotten pretenders.
“Your argument that I am ignorant is based on the idea I can’t have knowledge without watching directly.”
My statement that you are ignorant is based upon your admission that you are ignorant (#104): “I do not watch either channel nor any other televised news network or show.”
“You also show no substantive evidence that Maddow has disseminated. You just show she has stupid opinions.”
Look it up. See my blog for some direct citations. You cannot dismiss as merely “stupid opinions” Rachel Maddow deliberately smearing people who peacefully march in support of gun rights on the anniversary of Lexington and Concord (Patriot Day) as somehow being in support of a mass murderer whose horrifying actions accomplished none of his stated goals. Nor is she merely being “stupid” to bring Potok on her show to smear libertarians as “hate groups.”
She is engaging in calculated, cynical propaganda. What else do you expect from an Air America Radio host?
“Nothing she has said or reported has led to, for instance, an entire organization dedicated to organizing the poor (read: mostly black) being destroyed on the basis of nothing.”
Is this a reference to ACORN? You must be joking. Does tossing about platitudes about “the poor” somehow make theft of taxpayer dollars by fraud or blatant election fraud somehow immune to accountability? Plenty of governments and groups claim to be helping “the poor” and the worst of them ended up murdering tens of millions of “the poor”. Besides, ACORN only got a temporary taxpayer funding hit (a few months) and reorganized under different names. Nor were they held accountable for about 98% of the other illegal things they did. That group ought not receive any taxpayer dollars, as they engage in political activity. Let Democrats give their own money to fund them.
I have a lot of differences with many of the people who claim to be “Tea Partiers” but I’ve seen the majority of the rank and file protesting in support of individual rights and reducing government intrusion into our lives (a far more concrete and morally appropriate goal than the nebulous goal of purportedly helping “the poor”). MSNBC, CBS, and many other of the networks have engaged in concerted efforts to marginalize the good Tea Party people by focusing on the fringe elements, distorting the facts.
That is far worse than holding ACORN accountable for their criminal activity.
“I’m not defending Maddow’s opinions, I am defending her record in comparison to what appears to be a FNC network wide record.”
How the bloody hell do you presume to be in any position to mount such a defense if you don’t watch these networks? You should just quit making things up to suit your political biases, sit down in front of the TV (or internet videos), learn a few things, and then come back here with some substance.
“If you seriously think MSNBC is worse than FOX News because the democrats are in power now I’m not sure we can have a legitimate discussion.”
Good thing that’s not the case. My point is that decent people ought to be interested in seeing the Fourth Estate expose government corruption and abuse of power when those people actually are in power and poised to enact devastating legislation, instead of acting as the Fifth Column for the people who are destroying my grand children’s future economic prospects. That means I don’t excuse Fox for enabling the Bush excesses, but it also means it’s time for people who rightfully attacked them during the previous administration to wake the hell up and start challenging the media to stop acting like lapdogs for big government under the Democrat banner.
“As for racist elements in the Tea party movement, there are plenty of examples.”
No, there aren’t. There are a tiny number of assholes and probably a handful of agents provocateur who know that holding up a racist or illiterate sign at a rally would be sure to make the press.
The “Tea Party Express” is a GOP PAC attempting to wear the mantle of a grassroots organization (Astroturf, as opposed to the typical individual who identifies with the Tea Party “movement” on principle, rather than in pursuit of a partisan objective), and the fact that one of their leaders made an idiotic attempt at satire says nothing about the 99.999% of others.