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73 Responses to “Man Shot, Killed by Police at a Las Vegas Costco”
The Dutchman, over at Sipseystreetirregulars.blogspot.com, has also linked this. The comments there are, I think, a bit more “vehement” than most of those here, if fewer. I do think there are very few Oath Keepers in that PD.
Sweet Jesus. I’ve just spent hours reading every report of this thing that I could find.
I have said this before and I am going to say it again, because it is the largest implication of this case:
Procedure now precludes thought among police officers. These people are not allowed — institutionally — to reason to a moral conclusion on their own powers. This is a subtle but crucial difference from run-of-the-mill epistemic decay running through the rest of the culture: what you have seen me call “Endarkenment” — the end of reason.
And I am telling you — you heard it from me first:
This is exactly the same epistemic condition found among those who once herded innocent people into cattle-cars at rifle-point without ever once hearing the sounds of their own consciences.
Heed me well. That’s what this is about, and once you understand that, you can see the future unfold before it gets here.
Yup, Billy. Whatever happened to the concept of “Peace Officers?” I tellya, I’d rather have to deal with a Peace Officer than with Officer Friendly, or Officer Safety, or Officer Cartman. Officer Cartman seems to be ubiquitous these days.
Hardison Collins |
July 13th, 2010 at 7:46 pm
@ #46 | Bax
– you are right, but the numerous mentions still raise a red flag for me.
@ #47 | Kristen
– you are also right, I am not pleased that you are right, but the way you illustrate public awareness (or lack thereof) is accurate.
Several witnesses interviewed by the Review-Journal have said they did not see a gun and did not see Scott reach for a gun when police confronted him outside the store.
But the 72-year-old man, in addition to another witness reached Monday, said they did see the weapon and did see Scott reach for it.
Police have said that Scott drew a pistol and pointed it at officers after they ordered him to raise his hands and lie on the ground. Both witnesses gave their accounts to homicide investigators, they said.
The 72-year-old man heard police say, “Get on the ground. Get on the ground.” He saw Scott facing the officers, who were between Scott and the store entrance.
The man said he saw Scott reach with his right hand and pull out what appeared to be a gun in a zippered holster. He recognized the holster, he said, because he has one like it. Officers then fired, and the man saw the gun fall out of Scott’s hand. The witness did not see Scott point the gun at officers.
“I feel sorry for the guy, but he just made a dumb move,” the 72-year-old man said.
The second witness, who also spoke on the condition that his name not be used, was standing near the entrance when he said he heard police shout, “Get down on the ground. Get down now.”
He turned to see why police were yelling, he said, and saw Scott reaching for what appeared to be a pistol in his waistband. The witness said he recognized the butt of the gun and immediately turned toward his wife and covered her as they dove to the ground.
“He was definitely reaching for the gun,” the man said.
The witness turned away before he could see whether Scott fully removed the weapon from his waistband and didn’t see the shooting. He said it did not appear that Scott was trying to “quick-draw” the weapon on the officers.
He heard gunshots soon after. The witness said he has been struggling with how the incident unfolded.
“It’s so totally bizarre to me” that the man would grab the weapon in front of the officers, the witness said.
He added that he doesn’t believe the man deserved to die for his actions, as he has heard other people say. But he said he does believe the officers were justified in their response
“Procedure now precludes thought among police officers. These people are not allowed — institutionally — to reason to a moral conclusion on their own powers.”
That’s the same abdication of reason in which all “zero tolerance” advocates, adherents, and enforcers seek refuge. They *crave* servitude to procedure because they’re too goddamned scared and lazy to reason their way to *anything.*
Strange how most cops go through their entire career never drawing their weapon but one of these cops now has two fatal shootings under his belt but you know what they say what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas
I live in Chesapeake, Virginia. When I first read this story, I called the nearest Costco (in Norfolk), spoke to the manager, and asked if the company has a nation-wide policy prohibiting firearms at their locations. His response was that yes there was, that only law-enforcement personnel, who are carrying documentation to prove who they are, are permitted to carry firearms at Costco locations.
I mentioned to him that according to Virginia state law, a business concern that prohibits firearms on their premises must post a readily visible sign on every public entrance to the business, stating that firearms are prohibited – he was unaware of this, and thanked me for the information.
I did some research on Nevada gun laws, and discovered that the open and concealed carry laws there are very much the same as those in Virginia –also- that the requirement for a business posting a visible sign, prohibiting firearms, is also much the same.
A nervous employee inside the store, telling people that they weren’t allowed to carry guns in the store would not satisfy this requirement – if there was no sign, then Costco should be held liable, along with these trigger-happy Nazis in blue…
In response to #60, what you do not know is that he was indeed slowly reaching and removing his gun. The gun was in a shut, zippered case in his waistband and he was removing it per the officer’s command to ‘drop it’. Three cops were yelling ‘get on the ground’, and ‘drop the gun’.
Erik unfortunately listened to ‘drop the gun’ and proceeded to do so while saying ‘I’m ex-military, I have a permit’. Amid this confusion one cop saw him reaching for the waistband and fired. Of course this caused the others to fire.
A tragedy for everyone there that day. Trust me, there is a lot more info that will come to light in this case that will vindicate Erik.
I HAVE LIVED IN VEGAS FOR MANY YEARS GOING BACK TO THE 70’S AND EVERY YEAR THERE ARE NUMEROUS SHOOTINGS BY POLICE, NO ONE EVER SAYS ANYTHING ABOUT IT. JUST SAD THAT THE POLICE CAN SHOOT FIRST AND ASK QUESTIONS LATER, BUT THATS IT HERE IN VEGAS, YOU CAN FLASH A PAIR OF FINGERNAIL CLIPPERS AT THE COPS AND YOU ARE DEAD…….
I’m a CCW permit holder in Clark County and I shop at that Costco store. After reading the Las Vegas RJ story I drove by to check and, sure enough, there is no sign forbidding weapons. I also saw a camera at the entrance which should provide a clear view of the action.
LV Metro Police haven’t released the 911 tapes and they won’t confirm or deny the existence of the store surveillance tapes. Sheriff Gillespie said the tapes (if any) will be heard first at the coroner’s inquest (which is not yet scheduled.)
I hope that the family of the man that was murder by Metro gets to read this article by the review journal pertaining to the women that messed up the tape during the shooting of a man back in 2009. This is very fishy and smells like rotten eggs. It seems to be a pattern of how metro covers up what happens. Here is the link: http://www.lvrj.com/news/42047132.html
Liberty Belle |
September 28th, 2010 at 9:18 pm
Jury: Officers’ Justified In Scott Shooting
Jury Sat Through 5 Days Of Witness, Police Testimony