Morning Links

Thursday, May 6th, 2010
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137 Responses to “Morning Links”

  1. #1 |  John | 

    As it’s been said elsewhere, if the Phoenix Suns want to be consistent, they should leave the gates unguarded and allow anyone without a ticket admission to the game.

  2. #2 |  newshutz | 

    It sounds like the Suns had the jerseys in line for Cinco de Mayo, and the link to the Arizona law was serendipity.

  3. #3 |  Mattocracy | 

    “Funny, though, that King has sung a different tune when the suspected terrorists have been white. ”

    Marv’s head might explode!

  4. #4 |  paranoiastrksdp | 

    Analogy fail @ #1.

  5. #5 |  Michael Pack | 

    King’s just following the lead of drug warriors[he's one too] and M.A.D.D.We’re told some things are just too dangerous to follow the constitution.

  6. #6 |  Marty | 

    I can’t stop looking at the prom pictures. wow.

  7. #7 |  Karl | 

    Re: Sun’s wear jerseys to protest law.
    As alluded to by #2 – The Suns have done this several times in the past. In fact,
    I’m pretty sure they’ve done it once or twice this season already (where ‘this’
    refers to wearing hispanic themed jerseys). I’m pretty the Los Suns was not conceived
    or implemented as a protest of the Az law. In other words, they still would have worn
    “Los Suns” on Cinco de Mayo, if SB 1070 never existed.

  8. #8 |  MDGuy | 

    Ugh, is there anything more disgusting than back-fat oozing out of a too-tight-dress to the point that it looks like a second ass?

  9. #9 |  Boyd Durkin | 

    In Florida, cops got their pet politicians to pass a law making it legally perilous to get too specific when giving thumbs-down to uniformed arm-twisters.

    Damn…that’s good summarizing!

    Now we need to punish those pet politicians who passed an “illegal” law. HA!

  10. #10 |  Yizmo Gizmo | 

    “Any person who shall maliciously, with intent to obstruct the due execution of the law or with the intent to intimidate, hinder, or interrupt any law enforcement officer in the legal performance of his or her duties, publish or disseminate the residence address or telephone number”

    Notice to Florida : Blow me.

  11. #11 |  Boyd Durkin | 

    prom-fail-90 appears to be a win.

  12. #12 |  John | 

    Explanation fail @ #4.

  13. #13 |  Dave Krueger | 

    From the puppycide item:

    “They’d never even asked me my side of the story.”

    Of course not, Billie. Your side of the story only matters if you have video and even then it usually only results in the cops adjusting their story to make it a slightly less obvious that it’s a complete fabrication.

  14. #14 |  Bob | 

    Let’s assume… for shits and giggles, that Belefontaine Neighbors has a “Dogs must be leashed or fenced in” ordinance. (It probably does).

    Let’s also assume that violating said ordinance is a civil matter, and carries the penalty of receiving a citation, that carries with it a small fine.

    This is how things work in civilized society. Peace officers used to carry books with which to record these trespasses of civil order, and to dole out said fines.

    Apparently, though… that’s not how things work in the Belefontaine Neighbors Police Department!

    Do they ring the doorbell, asking if they have any dogs, and if they get out? Ready to write a citation? Fuck no! They sneak around back like rambo and just shoot the dog.

    And then to add insult to injury, Chief Wiggums er… Police Chief Robert Pruett, just totally glosses over it. “Our officer says the dog was charging at him” … Apparently, his officer’s word is good enough for him! Fuck the serfs and their side of the story, or due process, or anything like that.

  15. #15 |  Over the River | 

    Interesting in that the news story about the cop sneaking around the woman’s house, hiding in the bushes, and shooting her dog is labled “Violent Crime”. They have that right.

  16. #16 |  Mattocracy | 

    I wonder how long it’s going to be before non hispanics have to start proving their citizenship. Honestly, I don’t have anything other than a drivers liscense, something anyone (legal or illegal) can get. My birth certificate was destroyed in a flooded basement several years ago and my passport expired last year. I can’t possibly prove I’m not a Canadian faking a southern accent.

    I suppose I can request a copy of my BC if needed, but how long does that take? What do I have to do to prove that I’m the real person that certificate belongs to? Further, if I were locked up because a cop questioned my legal status, would I stay in jail until such proof arrives? What if you don’t remember what hospital you were born at? The hospital I was born in doesn’t even exist anymore.

    How much do want to bet the first time this immigration law is used on a white person, it’s going to be conservative NRA member who posts some anti-Obama tirade on the internet, or some story similiar. He’ll have a similiar story as outlined above about why he can’t prove citizenship beyond a drivers liscense. He’ll be a person who probably thought the Arizona Immigration Law was a good idea right up until it was used against him.

  17. #17 |  ParatrooperJJ | 

    The Suns are idiotic, they can’t even translate their name into Spanish correctly.

  18. #18 |  Marty | 

    I ran a lot of ambulance calls in Bellefontaine Neighbors, years ago. It’s a little ‘burb in north county- a classic white flight kinda place. they had their share of racist asshole cops, but there were a couple that were just real good guys- they understood how to not escalate a situation.

    I had my first ‘guy tasered dies in police custody’ call in Bellefontaine… The puppycide story doesn’t surprise me.

  19. #19 |  Mike Leatherwood | 

    Suns is a proper name. My name would not be translated Michael del Cuero-madera. Los Suns is correct.

  20. #20 |  Aresen | 

    That picture link got me a Red Screen at work. Don’t know what’s in it, but suggest you watch out if you are cyberslacking.

  21. #21 |  TDR | 

    I loved the one comment to the Florida police/1st Amendment story: “If the cops aren’t doing anything wrong, what do they have to hide? At least that’s what they tell us ‘common people.’”

  22. #22 |  Aresen | 

    Peter King likes the IRA, a group of bigoted religious-based extremists who are determined to force Northern Ireland, against the will of the majority of its people, to join the Irish CaliphateRepublic, the politics of which have been dominated until recent years by the Roman Catholic Mullahs and Ayatollahs Priests and Bishops.

    Perfect illustration of the maxim “One man’s terrorist is another man’s freedom fighter.”

  23. #23 |  Some Guy | 

    Whatever happened to calling a DOG CATCHER if there’s a report of a vicious dog on the loose? Nope, nowadays they call the execution squad. Something about the article makes me wonder if this cop really got a call, or if he was just out “hunting.” Some of my friends go running and let their dogs off the leash to go running with them. I won’t risk it when my puppy grows up because I don’t want to chance some “protect and serve” policeman getting his jollies shooting my dog. I would go insane.

  24. #24 |  jrb | 

    I miss the days when something crazy said by a Peter King was about football.

  25. #25 |  Marc | 

    Many of the prom photos are for a scholarship competition.

    http://www.duckbrand.com/Promotions/stuck-at-prom.aspx

    So all the duct tape dresses and tuxes were for money.

  26. #26 |  Mo | 

    I miss the days when something crazy said by a Peter King was about football.

    Now he just rants about the various Starbucks of America.

  27. #27 |  Bill | 

    Peter King is a real piece of work. He was an IRA supporter for years, but now he is Mr. Anti-Terrorism? The IRA exploded bombs in London and Belfast to “free” (or rather ethnically cleanse) Northern Ireland that was all okay. But if Islamic extremists set off bombs in London or New York to end the occupation of their holy land, then they are terrorists? He needs to be called out more often on this. Thanks.

  28. #28 |  Bob | 

    #23:
    “Whatever happened to calling a DOG CATCHER if there’s a report of a vicious dog on the loose?…”

    From what I can determine, the initial report was not a vicious dog. A neighbor called to report that the animals were simply lose.

    This neighborhood, apparently, has a local “No above ground fence” rule, so the dogs had one of those buried zone barrier things, but it was broken.

    Proper procedure, then… would be for the Officer to make contact with the Dog’s owner and verify if the dogs were getting out. If so, issue a citation. Repeated citations could result in further charges.

    In NO CASE does it appear that the exigent circumstances required to allow the Officer to just sneak around the house to shoot the dog existed.

    Of course, all this assumes the Officer was trained to uphold the law, and to Protect and Serve.

    It could be argued that my analysis is flawed, and makes the assumption that Police lie all the time to cover their asses… but I think that’s a pretty safe assumption to make.

  29. #29 |  paranoiastrksdp | 

    @ John #1, #12

    If you need it explained to you, you wouldn’t understand anyway.

  30. #30 |  Kevin | 

    #16 @Mattocracy –

    You think you have it bad. I was born on a U.S. air base in France that hasn’t been active since 1965. And my BC is written in French. I guess I might as well get ready for the jail time.

  31. #31 |  J | 

    Does anyone else’s heart sometimes skip a beat when an unexpected knock comes from your door these days? Due to all the puppycide/no-knock raid stories I’ve read recently, I’ve begun answering these knocks at our door with flip cam in hand. Just in case. If you’re gonna’ shoot my golden retriever because he loves to greet visitors with “enthusiasm”, you pigs better smile for youtube and the local news. I’ll make you famous.

  32. #32 |  Nick T | 

    No guys John’s right, becuase if you oppose the racist and unconstituional law making it an arrestable offense to be hispanic and not provide sufficient documentation that you’re here legally, then you are also in favor of a wide-open immigration policy!

    I mean, how could one, in their brain possibly reconcile opposing this law, but ALSO thinking it would be best if most people immigrated here legally OR that we should make it easier for some people to do so? That’s called hypocrisy!! Stoopid Suns!

  33. #33 |  pris | 

    During the Communism Witch Hunt, was there any mention of stripping Americans of their citizenship?

  34. #34 |  ClubMedSux | 

    Not to be a contrarian (oh, who am I kidding? I love being a contrarian) but if I were a Suns player I would have a problem with their decision even if I agreed with the principle behind it (which I do). It’s one thing to take a political position, but it’s another to essentially force others to take your political position, which is what you’re doing when you make a team wear politically-loaded jerseys. If I were a professional athlete and were forced to wear jerseys with a Caduceus on it to support health care reform, or a “HOPE” patch right before the election, or even a D.A.R.E. sticker, I would definitely be pissed. There may be players on the team that support the Arizona law, and while I may strongly disagree with them, as an employer I wouldn’t force they to publicly protest a policy with which they agree.

    I’ll give the standard libertarian disclaimer that the Suns had every right to do what they did. However, as somebody who’s politics are generally in the minority, I get uncomfortable when an employer explicitly uses his/her employees to promote a political position–even on the rare occasion such as this where I agree with the position.

  35. #35 |  JWeidner | 

    Hey ClubMedSux,
    I can’t dig it up at the moment, but I’m certain I read an article that said the players were consulted about it beforehand. It wasn’t a decision made by ownership alone.

  36. #36 |  John | 

    @ paranoiastrksdp #29.

    Try me. Because I think that the analogy is good. If I’m wrong, explain why, or concede the point.

  37. #37 |  Nick T | 

    I addressed why your anaolgy sucks at 32, John, albeit sarcastically. It’s just awful.

  38. #38 |  scottp | 

    The article says the cop shot the dog right between the eyes and the round exited through her neck. The article also states that the officer claims the dog was charging him in an aggressive manner.
    What are the odds that he could place a shot between the eyes of a charging animal this size? Or the size of a fucking bull for that matter.
    I call bullshit!

  39. #39 |  Marv Hamlish | 

    Predictable, this site comes down in favor of open borders. Arizona’s law is no different than the federal law. This just cements my opinion that this is a liberal site, not libertarian. See Vin Suprynowicz, or Wayne Root as good examples of libertarians that understand that one of the few roles of the federal government is to man the border and keep a lid on the national identity. That’s right the national identity. They are coming to the America to escape the shithole they created by allowing a corrupt and over reaching government. I don’t want them to come to America and change it for the worst which is exactly what will happen. We are all ready knee deep in it. Also I’m waiting for a response on liberty for little kids in the third trimester.

  40. #40 |  Marty | 

    John-

    if people want to enjoy the entertainment provided by the Suns’ business, all they have to do is buy a ticket. They can choose to spend their money on other entertainment. They’re free to choose (had to slide the Milton reference in- sorry!). It’s a consensual transaction.

    Immigration laws are not consensual transactions. The government creates false hurdles to exclude outsiders from pursuing their ‘life, liberty, and happiness…’

    You could say that the immigration laws are similar to restrictive laws and codes the government puts into place to keep unions and corporations happy- someone wanting to have a hair braiding business has to go to beautician school for 1500 hours to do something that isn’t even taught, just to get the govt required beautician’s license and appease the existing beautician businesses. Having to be 21 to drink, but 18 to be an adult creates a false barrier that needlessly restricts an adult’s freedom.

  41. #41 |  Brandon | 

    John, if you really don’t get it: Being out in public anywhere in this country is completely different than being in a privately-owned or at least privately-leased arena during a for-profit exhibition. If someone in the arena does not have a ticket or can’t prove they paid for their admission, they are escorted out of the arena and given their liberty at its doors, not thrown in prison until they can prove they had a ticket. Because I’m a nice guy, I’ll leave off the “you dumb fuck.” Oops.

  42. #42 |  Aresen | 

    “….Wayne Root as good examples of libertarians that understand that one of the few roles of the federal government is to man the border and keep a lid on the national identity.

    As if we needed more proof that Marv doesn’t get it.

  43. #43 |  Marty | 

    Marv-

    ‘They are coming to the America to escape the shithole they created by allowing a corrupt and over reaching government.’ In light of what’s going on in America, this is the most ironic thing I’ve read all day. Thanks!

    Thomas Paine was the ultimate libertarian, by the way… he was in favor of individual liberty, not ‘national identity’.

  44. #44 |  Aresen | 

    @ Brandon | May 6th, 2010 at 1:27 pm

    Apologies for downticking you by accident. Please add one uptick and delete one downtick.

  45. #45 |  Aresen | 

    scottp | May 6th, 2010 at 1:07 pm
    The article says the cop shot the dog right between the eyes and the round exited through her neck. The article also states that the officer claims the dog was charging him in an aggressive manner.

    From the Police Officer’s Manual on Aggressive Dogs:

    Barking = Aggressive
    Running towards you = Aggressive
    Ears up = Aggressive
    Eyes open = Aggressive
    Tail up = Aggressive
    Tail down = Aggressive
    Tail wagging = Aggressive
    Begging for treats = Aggressive
    Catching a frisbee = Aggressive
    Chasing a ball = Aggressive
    Running away = Aggressive
    Lying down = Aggressive
    .
    .
    .

  46. #46 |  Nick T | 

    Marv,

    What you say is stupid enough you don’t have to back it up with totally inaccurate factual assertions. The AZ law is not the same as the federal law. You’ve been lied to by your “heroes” and, predicatably, you fell for it.

    Why is it so hard to imagine that one might oppose a law that invites and condones ratial profiling, violates the 4th Amendment, and creates a guilty until proven innocent presumption – not to mention one that treads the line between exclusive provinces of the federal government, and has separation of power problems – and not at the same time necessarily be in favor of open borders?

    BTW, hate to ruin this for you, but the libertarian position on immigration is actually one pretty close to open borders. As a matter of basic logic, finding people you believe to be libertarians who have one position on one issue does not make that the libertarian position. The libertarian position is always easy to figure out, in fact. Just take the positin that involves the least amount of government and the most amount of personal freedom. If you’re having trouble doing the math on that one regarding immigration, let me help – open borders!

  47. #47 |  Marv Hamlish | 

    It’s just been reported “Arizona Governor Jan Brewer’s administration has officially canceled the state contract that authorized Redflex Traffic Systems to issue automated freeway speeding tickets.” This is truly great news, and I’m sure all my libertarian brothers and sisters with rejoice at the governors decision. These ticket machines are the second biggest threat to our freedom and a slippery slop. The number one threat to our freedom being illeagal immigration.

  48. #48 |  Brandon | 

    Marv, you had a good contribution on the SWAT video, so I know you’re not trolling, and immigration seems to be a sensitive issue for you. However, as seen in the SWAT video, if this is allowed, it will continually escalate until armed men are raiding random houses so that the occupants can prove their citizenship, and anyone hurt or killed by the system will be labelled as a criminal or a necessary sacrifice. That is government. It will do anything it can to increase and protect its power, and any power willingly ceded to it will eventually be turned upon those who ceded it. Now, Radley has very solid evidence that illegal immigrants are less likely to commit violent crimes than natives, and that there are far better ways to address this problem, if you regard it as such, than the tried-and-failed-ad-nauseum “crackdown” at the expense of citizens’ constitutional rights, but even if you ignore those arguments, this is a terrifying power to give to any government agents, and no one will argue that it will not be abused. “Papers, please” is not an effective or safe approach to law enforcement. Ever.

  49. #49 |  Greg C | 

    # 39 Libertarian Fail.
    Using Vin Suprynowicz as the libertarian example is stretching it enough, but any mention of W.A.R. as some example of libertarianism is automatic failure.

  50. #50 |  Greg C | 

    And I agree with # 11 Boyd Durkin. Many of those prom pictures are “fails” but # 90 looks like all-win to me.

  51. #51 |  Mattocracy | 

    Marv,

    I’m telling you man, Arizona did not pass this law to attack mexicans. It’s existance is strictly to harrass everyone, including you. If you think for a second that Holder and his DOJ aren’t looking to lock up a few tea party people and charge them with domestic terrorism, you’re crazy. If you don’t think for a second that if this immigration law were practised at a national level, it won’t be truned on US citizens so that they will have to prove citizenship before they can be released from jail, ensured due process by the law, etc…then you’re crazy.

    Politicians aren’t trying to protect you from illegal immigration. It’s a scam to control YOU just as much as it is to control them. You have to get out of this liberals vs conservatives game. It’s politicians vs us.

    I just don’t know of a whole lot of “liberals” advocating low taxes, the free market, reduced regulation, gun rights, controlling pork barrel spending, and ending the nanny state as we do here. If our stance on immigration and civil liberties is enough to negate all of that, then everyone is going to be a liberal and you’re going to be the only conservative left. Ignoring everything that doesn’t make us liberals means you aren’t any better than what you make us out to be.

  52. #52 |  Marty | 

    ‘ The number one threat to our freedom being illeagal immigration.’

    SWAT teams, the IRS, the Republican and Democratic parties, and the empire-building military are all illegal immigrants?!! that explains so much.. I’m starting to understand where you’re coming from!

  53. #53 |  MikeZ | 

    It did say in the article that the players were consulted, but even so I can’t imagine it was a pressure free situation. When your boss who pays your million dollar salary comes by and says he would like to do this, would you mind its a bit coercive. Same theory behind the sexual harassment laws.

  54. #54 |  Marv Hamlish | 

    Nick T., you are no doubt a young man that has not done much in this world as yet, so I’ll wait to call you vulgar names. I’ve read the bill, and I’m confident in my comparison.

    Have you not noticed the differnce between Jaurez and Indianapolis? Juarez is a shit hole of biblical proportions, so is Monterey, so is Tijuana, so is St. Louis, ooops, bad example. We will soon be there my friend. I came to this site because I liked what I was hearing concerning problems with our police departments. But I think one of the concerns about police brutality and corruption are not getting that much traction, is because good citizens are seeing a level of uncivilized behavior never before seen in this country. Let me say that I do not trust police department crime stats very much, and neither should Balko, but he sites them all the time when he makes his open borders pitch.

  55. #55 |  Greg C | 

    I’m not a Randian, but I’ve always agreed with this and similar articles by this author:
    http://www.capitalismmagazine.com/politics/immigration/4620-Immigration-Quotas-Individual-Rights-The-Moral-and-Practical-Case-for-Open-Immigration.html
    and consider this closer to my libertarian immigration beliefs than anything from the W.A.R. faction of conservative Republican “libertarians.”

  56. #56 |  J sub D | 

    These ticket machines are the second biggest threat to our freedom and a slippery slop. The number one threat to our freedom being illeagal immigration.

    The War on Sanity, the evisceration of the 4th, asset forfeiture absent convictions (I could go on) all take a back seat to speed cams and poor people who wish to pick our veggies as threats to our freedom?

    That is surely a double dip serving of stupidity.

  57. #57 |  Marv Hamlish | 

    I wanted to also take a minute to agree with Mike Z about your employer asking you to make a political statement. I have some first hand expierience with this. I work for a company that is based over seas, and they asked that we all start attaching a signiture to our company emails reminding everyone to “Think Green”. Well being the student of politics that I am I recognize that being green is a political movement. I don’t think there is any doubt about it. The country my company is based in has a large Green Party that holds seats in its parliment. Even in the USA (greatest country on earth) there is a green party. I don’t like being told to take a political position at work and so I don’t have the “Think Green” line on my emails. My boss is an angry liberal and has sent me emails with her “Think Green” signiture in a 72 point font just to make her point that she is unhappy with my being a rebel.

  58. #58 |  Mattocracy | 

    From the article by #55.

    “there is no “right” to be exempt from competition in the labor market, or in any other market.”

    I’m so using that in the future.

  59. #59 |  Nick T | 

    Marv,

    Can you point me to the substance in your response to what I wrote? I’m having trouble finding it?

    It could be that you didn’t try at all to respond, or it could be that the last post you threw up makes no sense at all. Seriously, dude. What are you even saying there?

  60. #60 |  Waste93 | 

    For the libertarians here who support the Suns move please explain the the following. The Suns owner specifically stated the team was to wear the uniforms in protest to the Arizona law. So an employer is forcing his employees to make a political statement they may not agree with. How does that square with individual liberty?

    Secondly I don’t think the Arizona law will be overturned. It’s fashioned after the federal law, federal law already requires non citizen to carry their papers with them in public (federal law signed by FDR), and the law states that the immigration law is a secondary infraction. In other words law enforcement can’t contact someone just to check their status, they have to have a lawful contact and that person has to be detained or a suspect in another matter. So no crime victims are going to have to prove status either.

  61. #61 |  Marv Hamlish | 

    Nick -
    My substance was:
    You are a young person and might be smart, but have not lived much to understand the difference between the way things ought to be, and the way things are. I’m guessing you don’t have children of your own, and don’t appreciate what a great country we live in, and that it would be a shame that for short term political gain (for Democrats) we allow our country to slip into shithole status as Mexico is and will continue to be.
    Love,
    Marv

  62. #62 |  Nick T | 

    #60

    But the law does make it a crime all by itself. Thus all of the same legal constructs would exists surrouning suspicion of a crime being committed. The part you’re referring to says that LEOs are *required* to ask for papers once there is lawful contact with a person AND there is “reasonable suspicion.” (I also think it’s violative of the 4th Amendment to require a seizure of a person – and yes taking someone’s papers is a seizure – based only on reasonable suspicion without delineating a more clear or burdensome standard.)

    So what the law opens up is state police initiating investigations, entering homes, stopping motorists etc. based on probable cause of illegal immigration status. This is the craftyness of the re-writes to the law. They say the police will only investigate due to lawful arrests, but an arrest is lawful if it is based on probable cause of a crime being committed and being in AZ while an illegal immigrant is now a crime.

    I don’t think the law will be overturned because it’s racist – although I think it is racist – but for technical reasons such as its 4th Amendment issues and the fact that immigration is the province of the federal government.

  63. #63 |  ClubMedSux | 

    Mike Z. beat me to it. I’ve been in that situation and I’d love to say I had the stones to tell my boss, “Sorry, I just don’t believe in that cause.” However, the reality is I’ve got 2.7 kids to put through college (presumably three assuming everything goes well over the next three months) and the job market is too shitty to take those sorts of principled stands right now.

  64. #64 |  Marv Hamlish | 

    Well I have sited Vin Suprynowizc and Wayne Allen Root and been shot down (not really). So let me go to The Godfather, RON PAUL.

    I would not sign a bill like [comprehensive immigration reform], because it would be amnesty. I also think that it’s pretty impractical to get an army in this country to round up 12 or maybe 20 million. But I do believe that we have to stick to our guns on obeying the law, and anybody who comes in here illegally shouldn’t be rewarded. And that would be the case.
    Ron Paul

    …somebody who illegally comes in this country as a drug dealer, is he under the jurisdiction and their children deserve citizenship? I think it’s awfully, awfully confusing, and, matter of fact, I have a bill to change that as well as a Constitutional amendment to clarify it.
    Ron Paul

  65. #65 |  Nick T | 

    Marv! Are you avoiding the issue again, and not engaging with the arguments against you! Not again dude! Noooooo!

  66. #66 |  Zeb | 

    John and Marv,
    The only supposedly libertarian arguments against immigration are that immigrants from points south are all nasty commies who are going to ruin our country, or that they will come and use welfare and other government services. Neither of those arguments is particularly libertarian. If you value freedom, you must value it for everyone, even leftists from Central America. Keeping people out of the country because of their political beliefs is pretty much anti-libertarian. The fact that immigrants might use welfare is an argument against welfare, not against immigrants. The solution to that problem is to eliminate the welfare state, or at least fix immigration rules so that immigrant are barred from receiving services (and if you don’t like their children born here being citizens, good luck repealing the 14th amendment).
    What is libertarian is free trade and free markets. It is not possible to have a free market when one of the most important aspects of the market, labor, is artificially restricted by arbitrary boundaries and limits. If I want to hire an immigrant laborer, it is a violation of my property rights and my right to contract for the government to prohibit the worker to enter the country or for me to hire him. Immigration restrictions and border control should only aim to prevent dangerous or ill intentioned people from entering the country.

  67. #67 |  Andrew Williams | 

    “I have to shoot her. I have to shoot her.”

    Was somebody holding a gun to his…oh, never mind; that’s too easy.

  68. #68 |  Scott | 

    Barking = Aggressive
    Running towards you = Aggressive
    Ears up = Aggressive
    Eyes open = Aggressive
    Tail up = Aggressive
    Tail down = Aggressive
    Tail wagging = Aggressive
    Begging for treats = Aggressive
    Catching a frisbee = Aggressive
    Chasing a ball = Aggressive
    Running away = Aggressive
    Lying down = Aggressive

    You forgot:

    Sleeping = Aggressive
    Pooping = Aggressive
    Eating = Aggressive
    Dead = Aggressive

  69. #69 |  Stormy Dragon | 

    BTW, does Marv Hamlish’s weird writing style remind anyone else of Eric Dondero?

  70. #70 |  Aresen | 

    @ Scott | May 6th, 2010 at 2:48 pm

    I agree with all but your last addition. I believe the Police summarize the matter as “The only non-aggressive dog is a dead dog.”

  71. #71 |  jppatter | 

    #61

    I’m guessing you don’t have children of your own,

    Won’t somebody PLEASE think of the children??? Sigh.

  72. #72 |  Marv Hamlish | 

    My only point about having children is that every good father would want their child to live in a country better then the one they lived in, and not a savage third world narco state that rewards corrupt police and govcrats that are under the table. Just like most good fathers would not want to see the scissors slice the back of their childs head and have thier brains sucked out in the 3rd trimester. Cmon you limp wrists, can’t you do better than that.

  73. #73 |  CC | 

    I call the vast majority of those Prom wins, especially the kids in outfits made of duct tape, the funny-looking kids who came to prom anyway and the kids who dressed oddly just to prove they didn’t give a damn.

  74. #74 |  flukebucket | 

    This just cements my opinion that this is a liberal site, not libertarian.

    Believe me Marv. I have seen liberal sites and this is not one of ‘em :-)

    But I appreciate your visits and comments here. I like a site that allows different viewpoints. I am trying to figure this shit out myself and an echo chamber is the last place I want to hang out.

    When it comes to abortion I just don’t care. I guess I am supposed to but I would be lying if I said I did. I think that is a decision best made by the people directly involved.

    For what it is worth I have two grown married daughters so I have been through the child raising thing. There were times when I was very Old Testament in my views and felt like a parent should be allowed to stone their kids up until they were 21 or older. Having teenage girls is hell on earth.

    One of my daughters is now pregnant and I have seen 3D images of my unborn grandson. Those images make abortion seem particularly horrible but still I would consider that decision to be one to be made by my daughter and son-in-law.

    Awful maybe. But true nonetheless.

  75. #75 |  Mattocracy | 

    So having a fascist police state where you have to show your papers is better for your children? The best way to not to have a narco state is to end the drug war, not immigration. To think that immigrants are going to destroy our way of life is absurd. I know a lot of political pundits are trying to prove that, but like all politicians and talking heads, they’re liars. Immigrants are coming here to escape a shit country, not to turn our’s into the same shit hole they came from. That makes no sense.

    C’mon now, you can do better than that.

  76. #76 |  Marv Hamlish | 

    I think you are right, immigrants are coming to this country to improve their lives. But there is an old joke that when a member of the US House of Representitives wins a seat in the US Senate, he has just made both houses dumber. The same is true for Mexico and the U.S. We would be far better off making Mexicans stay in Mexico. If we made truly the best Mexicans (Mexicans that want to leave) stay in Mexico, what would you think would happen? The country would change much more fast. It’s the tough Mexicans that are willing to say fuck this, and go to America and risk everything for a better life that are the best hope for Mexico. We have been allowing the Mexican government a safty valve for their corrupt ways. Let’s make tough Mexicans stay in Mexico and force change so that they can truly live up to the hope that they will become the neighbor we want on our southern border. It will be better for both countries.

  77. #77 |  Boyd Durkin | 

    Watching the riots in Greece, it is easy to see that cops are just dangerous assholes no matter what country they’re in. Billy club to the head of a camera man. Billy club to the head of a woman with her hands up surrendering. Billy club to the head of an old man walking away. Billy club to a young girl on the ground (who tripped).

    In each case the cop then stood over their victim to taunt. Well, except in one case where a cop got a running start and launched himself into the back of a photojournalist taking a picture (do they get bonus points for hitting a man from behind?). In this case the cop hurried away as if trying to escape notice after he sent the journalist head first into a curb.

    In all cases the crowds were peacefully moving away and it was the cops who accounted for 100% (ok, maybe 99%) of the violence and danger.

    Not to worry tho’ as the new mantra for LEOs is “Police work can sometimes look brutal.” Well, so can revolution.

  78. #78 |  Nick T | 

    Awwwwwwww

    Marv, just wants to help Mexicans!! And ya know, ending the drug war would be too immediate and apparent in its benefits for Mexican, rather making them stay there and fix it themselves is better. Even if we contribute mightily to their problems! Yay!!!

  79. #79 |  Boyd Durkin | 

    We would be far better off making Mexicans stay in Mexico.

    Marv Hamlish,
    I cannot help but notice you appear to be wrong on almost every premise you promote.

  80. #80 |  Boyd Durkin | 

    To think that immigrants are going to destroy our way of life is absurd.

    Immigrants ARE our way of life. It would also do folks well to get a little Taoist on the subject of “destruction”.

    Every way of life gets “destroyed” over time. If you don’t believe me, ask your grannie or native Americans.

    So, YES! Immigrants “destroy” the American way of life. If you mean “change” when you say “destroy” and you equate “change” to “something that is happening right now, cannot be stopped, and is how the world works.” Bring on the destruction up in this bitch!

  81. #81 |  Marv Hamlish | 

    Can you imagine if we really did end the drug war? What would happen to illeagal drug cartels in Mexico and Colombia? It would be awesome, they would panic like you wouldn’t believe. Could you all of a sudden by coke at the 7/11? No. Maybe pot might be good to be legal, because let’s face it, post smokers can make it to work like some drunks can, maybe more. But can you imagine a country where cocaine is legal? I can’t. Coke or heroine, meth. Be honest you couldn’t live in a society that coke and meth are legal. Those people can’t work, or help in society.

  82. #82 |  John | 

    Nick T wrote at #32:

    No guys John’s right, becuase if you oppose the racist and unconstituional law making it an arrestable offense to be hispanic and not provide sufficient documentation that you’re here legally, then you are also in favor of a wide-open immigration policy!

    I mean, how could one, in their brain possibly reconcile opposing this law, but ALSO thinking it would be best if most people immigrated here legally OR that we should make it easier for some people to do so? That’s called hypocrisy!! Stoopid Suns!

    It’s not an arrestable offense to be hispanic. It is an arrestable offense to be an illegal alien. Such a person is, by definition, committing a crime.

    Now enforcement of this law could get really ugly, and have all sorts of unintended consequences to liberty that make it not worthwhile. But there’s nothing wrong with, in principle, a state enforcing federal laws that the federal government refuses to enforce. Especially given that the federal government is choosing to disregard its obligations to the states under Article 4, Section 4 of the US Constitution.

  83. #83 |  Boyd Durkin | 

    BTW, does Marv Hamlish’s weird writing style remind anyone else of Eric Dondero?

    Marv Hamlish hasn’t sent me any emails demanding I watch him have sexual relations with his mother. So, no.

  84. #84 |  Marv Hamlish | 

    Boyd Durkin, I can not help but notice you are a scrotum with a small penis growing between you balls. Boyd, I have done more reading during the last 20 years than almost any retard you can name. I am up to date man, and I have my facts down. I think you are a border-line homosexual and are not smart.

  85. #85 |  Marv Hamlish | 

    I’m a composer!

  86. #86 |  jppatter | 

    Cmon you limp wrists, can’t you do better than that.

    Really Marv? This is how you write and expect to be taken seriously? To put things in your frame or reference, any “good father” would teach his children that childish insults are no way to win an argument. They are usually the sign of a weak mind.

  87. #87 |  MikeL | 

    “Cmon you limp wrists, can’t you do better than that.”

    Has anyone else noticed that when Marv knows he’s lost an argument he starts in with the name calling?

  88. #88 |  John | 

    Marty wrote at #40:

    if people want to enjoy the entertainment provided by the Suns’ business, all they have to do is buy a ticket. They can choose to spend their money on other entertainment. They’re free to choose (had to slide the Milton reference in- sorry!). It’s a consensual transaction.

    Immigration laws are not consensual transactions. The government creates false hurdles to exclude outsiders from pursuing their ‘life, liberty, and happiness…’

    You could say that the immigration laws are similar to restrictive laws and codes the government puts into place to keep unions and corporations happy- someone wanting to have a hair braiding business has to go to beautician school for 1500 hours to do something that isn’t even taught, just to get the govt required beautician’s license and appease the existing beautician businesses. Having to be 21 to drink, but 18 to be an adult creates a false barrier that needlessly restricts an adult’s freedom.

    I would argue that the people of the United States, acting through their government, have a propertarian claim to restrict or open their borders however they wish. Just as an individual can refuse admission to his home for any reason that he chooses, so can a representative polity refuse a would-be immigrant admission for any reason that it chooses.

    But I agree that, from a purist libertarian perspective, it would be reasonable to say that a person should be able to freely cross any political boundaries and engage in transactions, such as buying property or entering into employment. This is the open borders perspective, and is completely consistent with libertarian values.

    But be aware that if we maintained an open border, the US would be promptly swamped with immigrants from all of the world. Shoot, half of Mexico alone would come here. And among other problems, we would see the Balkanization of the United States, and consequently its eventual dismemberment. There would be no cultural cohesion because there would not be time to assimilate immigrants into the American culture.

    But preserving some semblance of cultural unity may not be important — or not as important as maintaining the absolute right of a person to cross polity boundaries freely. I happen to disagree, but I can respect the perspective which insists on that right. However, supporters of open borders should have the courage to admit that they are advocating a policy which will lead to the dismemberment of the United States.

  89. #89 |  J sub D | 

    The arguments that Marv makes were made against my ancestors, diseased criminal papist scum that we Irish are. And the East Europeans. And the Italians.

    You’d think the xenophobic racist ‘tards could come up with something new after a century’s refutation of their nonsense.

    You’d be wrong. Thinking is too hard for Marv and his ilk.

  90. #90 |  MikeL | 

    “Boyd Durkin, I can not help but notice you are a scrotum with a small penis growing between you balls. Boyd, I have done more reading during the last 20 years than almost any retard you can name. I am up to date man, and I have my facts down. I think you are a border-line homosexual and are not smart.”

    Wow! What a clever retort. That post just screams intelligent and informed opinion.

  91. #91 |  Philly Girl | 

    All this immigration talk reminded me of two things. First, was the pastor beaten at checkpoint and my run-in with the Yuma, AZ police.

    http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/valleyfever/2009/04/pastor_tased_and_beaten_at_che.php

    1995, Yuma Arizona…pulled over for lid open on bus. Husband driving, me sleeping in back seat. The cop approaches, shines a flashlight in my face and demands to know if I’m an illegal. I look at him briefly than turn away and ignore him (I’m blonde with blue eyes). My dog is barking ferociously, slamming violently into the glass to get to him….he was a good boy and didn’t like strange men approaching me. The cop ended up giving us directions and did not shoot my pup. I’m sure it wouldn’t have ended like that today!

    I can’t imagine what it’s going to be like to be an immigrant in Arizona, here legally or not. Anyone with dark skin will be put through constant hell at the whim of a man with a shiny badge.

    We’ve come a long way from…..”Give us your poor, your tired, your huddled masses longing to be free…”

  92. #92 |  jppatter | 

    #90 Mike L.

    +10

  93. #93 |  Thomas | 

    It’s fun Radley says that, I know a bunch of Arizonans who don’t support the law in AZ, but are deeply offended a sports team got into politics and have stopped supporting the Suns. If it had been to support Mexican/Lantino culture in the state it wouldn’t have been an issue.

  94. #94 |  Zargon | 

    #61
    You are a young person and might be smart, but have not lived much to understand the difference between the way things ought to be, and the way things are. I’m guessing you don’t have children of your own, and don’t appreciate what a great country we live in

    If you want people to listen to you, don’t dismiss their beliefs for reasons totally unrelated to those beliefs. Of course, if you just want to troll the shit out of people, it’s an excellent tactic, because people have this inexplicable desire to argue back more when the opposition is weaker, which is, ironically, where there is the least to be learned.

  95. #95 |  Aresen | 

    J sub D | May 6th, 2010 at 4:39 pm
    The arguments that Marv makes were made against my ancestors, diseased criminal papist scum that we Irish are.

    Well, you know that old adage about a broken clock being right twice a day…

    ;P

  96. #96 |  Andrew Williams | 

    Please to stop nourishing les troll.

  97. #97 |  Marty | 

    ‘However, supporters of open borders should have the courage to admit that they are advocating a policy which will lead to the dismemberment of the United States.’

    based on? the anti-immigration argument has been around since there’s been immigration. I can find no examples of a free country falling apart due to immigration. Many European cities are becoming swamped with muslim ghettos, but that’s because they’re attracting people to their welfare systems. immigrants know that when they come to America, they’re expected to hustle…

  98. #98 |  Andrew S. | 

    Back in the middle of the 19th century, it was all those Irish immigrants that would be the downfall of the United States.

    By the beginning of the 20th century, it was all those immigrants from Eastern Europe.

    By the middle of the 20th century, it was all those Asian immigrants.

    Now it’s the Mexicans.

    By 2050 it’ll probably be something else.

  99. #99 |  Aresen | 

    Andrew S. | May 6th, 2010 at 5:57 pm

    By 2050 it’ll probably be something else.

    Considering the way the economies of China, India and the US are growing relative to each other, I suspect that it is more likely that the Chinese and Indians will be complaining about “yankbacks*.”

    *That sounds like something Fred Phelps would not approve of.

  100. #100 |  JS | 

    Andrew “Back in the middle of the 19th century, it was all those Irish immigrants that would be the downfall of the United States.

    By the beginning of the 20th century, it was all those immigrants from Eastern Europe.

    By the middle of the 20th century, it was all those Asian immigrants.

    Now it’s the Mexicans.

    By 2050 it’ll probably be something else.”

    Because the cause of it is always this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_panic

  101. #101 |  Helmut O' Hooligan | 

    #77 Boyd Durkin: “In all cases the crowds were peacefully moving away and it was the cops who accounted for 100% (ok, maybe 99%) of the violence and danger.”

    Haven’t seen too much of the footage from Greece, but I would also point out that yesterday some “Anarchists” (Read: Communists in anti-authoritarian drag) threw a Molotov Cocktail into a bank and killed three people. I don’t point this out to excuse use of force against peaceful protesters, just saying you might want to adjust your percentages a bit. Rioting is a national past time in Greece, particularly by “anarchists,” who are often far from peaceful.

  102. #102 |  John | 

    Marty wrote:

    based on? the anti-immigration argument has been around since there’s been immigration. I can find no examples of a free country falling apart due to immigration. Many European cities are becoming swamped with muslim ghettos, but that’s because they’re attracting people to their welfare systems. immigrants know that when they come to America, they’re expected to hustle…

    There are some differences between this wave of Mexican immigration and previous waves that the US has experienced. We’ve been inundated with, among others, vast numbers of Irish and Chinese. But large sections of the United States never belonged to Ireland or China, but large sections of the US used to belong to Mexico. And Irish and Chinese who came to America during the 19th Century were making a largely permanent move. Going back to Europe was a tremendous ordeal, unlike the periodic moves of Mexicans north and south of the US-Mexican border. A 19th Century immigrant from Europe or Asia was leaving his country behind in a way that the 21st Century Mexican doesn’t. The consequences are obvious — the Mexican immigrant population isn’t assimilating into the US culture. Do you deny this?

    What’s happening is not so much immigration as colonization. Mexico is, by demographic means, colonizing the southwestern United States (among other locations). Large swaths of US territory are less affiliated with the English-speaking culture of the United States and more affiliated with a Spanish-speaking Latin American culture.

  103. #103 |  Frank | 

    And for those who believe that TSA’s electronic strip search machines aren’t all that bad, google “TSA officer small penis” for lots of LOL.

  104. #104 |  Helmut O' Hooligan | 

    #102 John: “Large swaths of US territory are less affiliated with the English-speaking culture of the United States and more affiliated with a Spanish-speaking Latin American culture.”

    Yeah yeah. We’ve heard this “oh God the good white folk are being outnumbered by them thar Mexicans” fear-mongering before. Colonization? Really? You are stealing Pat Buchanan’s rhetoric, John.

    Yes, many Mexican immigrants come here to work here for brief periods to work and then to go home. So what! Are you saying assimilate or get out? I hope you grow your own vegetables, Gringo! I would urge you to watch the movie “A Day Without a Mexican” for a satirical look at what might happen if we keep using Mexicans as a convenient whipping boy.

    And as the husband of a Mexican immigrant who has put up with years of bureaucaratic non-sense to become naturalized, in spite of the fact that she has worked hard and graduated from college, let me just add, chinga tu madre, mi amigo!

  105. #105 |  God's Own Drunk | 

    It amazes me how many people who claim this is “the best country on earth” hate so many of it’s basic principles and so many of the people inside it.

  106. #106 |  John | 

    Helmut O’ Hooligan wrote:

    Yeah yeah. We’ve heard this “oh God the good white folk are being outnumbered by them thar Mexicans” fear-mongering before. Colonization? Really? You are stealing Pat Buchanan’s rhetoric, John.

    So are you saying that the US is not being colonized by Mexico? Are you saying that the Mexican immigrant population is actually assimilating into the US? What precisely is your view?

  107. #107 |  El Scorcho | 

    I live on the border in Arizona. I’m not really pleased with the law and fear the power we give police, but also am very frustrated with our immigration policies that don’t seem to work. I think we should let many more people come here legally, but give them citizenship only after they prove they want to stay here and become US citizens for good. It can be very frustrating when you see fraud commited by people to use our services such as schools and hospitals for free.

    I know of kids who got grants and loans for college and their parents own restaurants and companies in Mexico and don’t report the income. Others who live in Mexico for cheap housing and taxes and cross the border everyday to use our schools. The ER in our city is full of people who aren’t citizens, don’t live here, don’t pay taxes, don’t pay for care and can’t be refused treatment. Meanwhile, I pay $700 per visit just for the physicians assistant to misdiagnose me, I wonder who else I am subsidizing.

    If you look into many of the hispanic movements, they don’t want to be US citizens, they want the southwestern part of the US to go back to Mexico, so they can shit it up too. My problem is with the ethnic identity movements that preach hate and victimhood.

    Let me say again, I don’t like this law. But don’t ignore the fact that illegal aliens are abusing the system and breaking our laws.

  108. #108 |  MattinCincy | 

    Somebody please help me out here ’cause I’m having trouble with the Libertarian mind set on this.
    Is the premise “it is too hard to become a U.S. Citizen that is why we have so many illegal aliens.”? And the solution is “make it easier to become a U.S. citizen.”?

    Why would I, you, or anyone be inclined to believe that these illegal aliens/undocumented workers/nonpaperpeople would suddenly start following the law just because it’s a little easier? I might be sold on that if there existed evidence that millions of Mexicans are turned down for naturalization each year. Then I’d know they at least tried, and failed, and had some sort of respect for structure, and a least SOME law. Otherwise I have to believe that those climbing the fences, and slogging through the deserts would, upon hearing of the eaiser naturalization policy, either say “what’s a naturalization policy”, or “yeah, that’s cool and all, but climbing this fence is still easier.”

  109. #109 |  André Kenji | 

    I live in São Paulo, Brazil, one of the places with higher immigrant population of the whole South America, and I´m the grandson of Japanese immigrants. All that I can say is that immigration is very good. Most of the livestock and farming industry of São Paulo was improved by innovations brought by Japanese Immigrants, and several factories and businesses where founded by German, Lebanese, Jewish, Italian and whatever immigrants. One of the biggest hotels of the city of São Paulo is called “Maksoud Plaza”, a Polish Jew founded the biggest chain store in the country;

    And most of these Germans and Japanese intended to go home, there was no effort to “make these people adopt the local culture”(Maybe with the exception of the prohibition of radio in foreign languages).

    The country did not break away and became richer, not poorer, under that process.

    By the way, regarding identification of Illegal Immigrants, you can do what most Latin American countries do: require *everyone* to carry an ID card. I have to carry mine everywhere, because I can be stopped by the cops for some reason. It´s not Libertarian in any sense, and, stop, most Latin American countries have sizable populations of undocumented workers.

  110. #110 |  Marv Hamlish | 

    We could use some Germans and Japanese coming to America. I think that if you got a large influx of German and Japanese in Brazil it probably improved that country much.

  111. #111 |  Marv Hamlish | 

    Lakers Coach Phil Jackson doesn’t see it that way. “Am I crazy, or am I the only one that heard [the legislature] say ‘we just took the United States immigration law and adapted it to our state,” he said. “I don’t think teams should get involved in the political stuff.

    New Lakers fan!!!

  112. #112 |  qwints | 

    @108, Reason did an article about the difficulties of the immigration process a couple years back.

    http://www.advancingequality.org/attachments/files/201/Immigration_Chart.pdf

    The wikipedia page also does a decent job of explaining the process of applying for permanent residency.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permanent_residence_(United_States)#Immigration_eligibility_and_quotas

    Bottom line, even if you’re a hard worker willing to work long hours for low, it may very well be impossible to work in the U.S. legally. We should also remember that the US had no caps on immigration until 1875 and didn’t seriously restrict it until anti-Asian feeling led to a ban on Chinese immigrants. When I here people spouting rhetoric that could have come out of a Know-Knothing party, I’m glad I’m not on their side.

  113. #113 |  Pinandpuller | 

    I think the libertarian solution for Mexico would be to give them all guns.

  114. #114 |  Marty | 

    some of you guys sound like the old man in Gran Torino!

  115. #115 |  Marty | 

    #108 Mattincincy-

    ‘I might be sold on that if there existed evidence that millions of Mexicans are turned down for naturalization each year.’

    I tried posing as a Mexican male and navigating our immigration process. I could not get in. The guys who own the grocery/donut store down the street from where I work come from a wealthy family and it took them a couple years (with a lawyer working for them) to legally get in. THEN, to bring your family, you’re looking at several more years.

    Unless you travel, try to immigrate, try to start a business, have someone in your family incarcerated, etc you won’t understand the ‘libertarian perspective’. This is abusive bureaucracy at its worst.

    it’s easy to find articles outlining the basics…

    http://www.ehow.com/how_4845246_legally-immigrate-america.html

  116. #116 |  Boyd Durkin | 

    I am not a libertarian, so these are just my views.

    My goal is to have a massive amount of immigrants flood America and help collapse the entitlement programs, but that’s just the beginning. I want them to bankrupt the tax payers and get everyone very, very angry. I want riots and revolution. I want to see the racism, hate, fear, and lunacy that exists scratch-deep inside all people.

    I want the post-revolutionary government to be even more corrupt and more restrictive…leading to another revolution.

    I want this process to continue (maybe three dozen times) until no relic of American history, values, or way-of-life remains.

    I hope to be one of the last people alive in this wasteland brought on by immigrants. I’ll set traps to snare people and then stand over them and say something like “WHERE IS YOUR GOD NOW?” or scream quotes from The Notebook at them because not enough people quote romance movies. “So it’s not gonna be easy. It’s gonna be really hard. We’re gonna have to work at this every day, but I want to do that because I want you” will strike fear in my enemies!

    So, that’s my plan. Except that the real threat of immigrants comes from America’s embrace of socialism.

  117. #117 |  Marty | 

    I’m gonna yell, ‘YOU HAD ME AT HELLO!’ our enemies will cower!

  118. #118 |  Boyd Durkin | 

    Marty,
    Easy there. Never go full retard.

  119. #119 |  Boyd Durkin | 

    Boyd Durkin, I can not help but notice you are a scrotum with a small penis growing between you balls. Boyd, I have done more reading during the last 20 years than almost any retard you can name. I am up to date man, and I have my facts down. I think you are a border-line homosexual and are not smart.

    Once again it appears an Agitator poster has a live video in my small room and can also read my very mind.

    Yes, I am literally a scrotum that has a small penis AND I also have balls. Now you know my shame. I am literally a scrotum that has balls and a small penis. When I was born, the medicine people said I confused their think-box with my condition. Special Lupito (my Mexican neighbor) is the only retard I can name and he cannot read, so Marv’s reading accomplishments are factual. I tip my hat to you, good sir. I do not now, nor have I ever, claimed to be smart as schooling was difficult for a scrotum-shaped child. Marv is correct again. However; there is nothing border-line about my homosexuality. Honey-child, my homosexuality is fabulous!*

    * No, it isn’t. Mostly because of my small penis. And, the fact that I’m an actual scrotum which is hard to disguise with a pea coat and silk scarf. Also, the scrotum odor is difficult to mask no matter how much Drakkar Noir I use. Damn you, Marv. Well played.

  120. #120 |  Marv Hamlish | 

    Thanks Boyd, and did you like my post back at 110 about how we could use more Germans and Japanese in America? See I’m not a racist. I grew up in a town in Wisconsin that had many Danish, Dutch, German, Swedes, and even some of the Irish were not criminals. Oh we had a regular melting pot up dare!

  121. #121 |  Cynical in CA | 

    The problem is not immigration. The problem is socialism.

    Of course the true libertarian position is open borders. Duh! Humans have an inalienable right to move. Taken to its logical opposite extreme, it would be ethical if a law were passed confining every human to a 3′x3′ box.

    The “problem,” with scare quotes because is should not exist and is a specious claim even under present circumstances, is that “illegal immigrants” suck taxpayers dry and commit an inordinate amount of violent crime. As I said, both these claims are specious in fact, but the root problem is socialism, or taxation in general.

    Eliminate the welfare state and who gives a shit how many people and of what race are in this land? Who can ethically dictate to me with whom I am to associate and on what terms?

    What a ridiculously facile discussion. A 3rd-grader would understand these arguments.

  122. #122 |  Cynical in CA | 

    #101 | Helmut O’ Hooligan — ” I would also point out that yesterday some “Anarchists” (Read: Communists in anti-authoritarian drag) threw a Molotov Cocktail into a bank and killed three people…. Rioting is a national past time in Greece, particularly by “anarchists,” who are often far from peaceful.”

    Thanks for qualifying the term “anarchist,” Helmut. The most insidious misconception of anarchists is that they are violent. The term anarchist itself denotes anti-violence.

    A violent anarchist is an impossibility. That situation is covered by the term “totalitarian,” or “statist.” Thanks for being cognizant about that.

  123. #123 |  Cynical in CA | 

    Re: puppycide

    Hasn’t it all been said already? With a dog in every household and armed agents of the State roaming at will, the interests of dog owners and the State will collide like electrons in an atom-smasher until either the State disappears or dogs disappear.

    I don’t see either one going away anytime soon, much as I hope for the demise of the State, so strap yourselves in for more and more and more puppycide.

    In the meantime, why don’t you adopt a dog from a shelter? You know, those nice places where 10,000 dogs die for every one shot by a cop?

    Eye on the big picture, people.

  124. #124 |  random guy | 

    I still like Marv, to be honest there was to much good Karma running around the comments here before he showed up, we needed a proper asshole to really get us going.

    Boyd, I have done more reading during the last 20 years than almost any retard you can name.

    Being well read and retarded still means you’re retarded. Normally you don’t advertise things like that.

  125. #125 |  JS | 

    Marv Hamlish ” and even some of the Irish were not criminals.”

    lol ok that was just funny!

  126. #126 |  jrb | 

    If only we had never started that Bear Patrol

  127. #127 |  Frank Hummel | 

    I guess Greek police are not afraid of dogs. Nice story abt this pup in Greece that seems to show up at protests.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/gallery/2010/may/06/greece-protest

  128. #128 |  Marty | 

    Cynical-

    ‘In the meantime, why don’t you adopt a dog from a shelter? You know, those nice places where 10,000 dogs die for every one shot by a cop?’

    this is a little like comparing abortion to murder- you can argue that, but I don’t see it. A HUGE part of the puppycide issue is the intrusion into privacy by the state and well-cared for and loved pets being snuffed. It would seem that the cops could go to the shelter and snuff out a few dogs to get their dog-killing fix in. It’s still evil, but they wouldn’t have to terrorize citizens to do it.

    of course, I agree completely with your open border and welfare points…

  129. #129 |  Marv Hamlish | 

    Random Guy you should stop screwing sheep, in many states it’s against the law. Plus let’s be honest the wind blows fcking fierce in W. Texas.

    J.S love you brother, you get it. If you live in the United States of America and cant take a joke??? In the USA we’re all mutants, and the to so many of us the most important thing is just to not get arrested!\
    11!!!!11!!!!!!!!!!111

  130. #130 |  Cynical in CA | 

    Marty, my basic point is that there is rampant overpopulation of dogs, in which dog owners are partially complicit, and which dog owners can help ameliorate by reducing said overpopulation by neutering or by adopting and caring for shelter animals instead of wringing their hands and gnashing their teeth over a very small (by comparison) issue that will never be solved.

    You won’t find a more ardent opponent of State intrusion into privacy than I. But my opposition does nothing to solve the problem. Where the State is, there is tyranny in all its forms.

  131. #131 |  random guy | 

    Looks like Marv went ahead and took my advice:

    http://www.theagitator.com/2010/05/04/yella-joe-lieberman/#comment-393836

    Say something stupid, get criticized for it, call critic a sheep f*cker, then immediately criticize everyone for not being able to take a joke. You are one class act pal.

    In case you don’t understand, your own comment implied that you were retarded, thus humor hollowed. Ridiculous bestiality accusations kind of supports that notion instead of disproving it.

  132. #132 |  Cynical in CA | 

    Most Americans think that freedom means the government gets to tell us who can come here and live with us. Even many Americans who believe strongly in free trade in goods can’t quite bring themselves to embrace free movement of people. De-socialize society and the immigration “problem” resolves itself into a great blessing for us all. Foreigners will come—the best and hardiest of them—because of the abundance of opportunity a free society represents. — Lawrence W. Reed, The Freeman [October 1994]

  133. #133 |  Marty | 

    good posts, Cynical!

  134. #134 |  Helmut O' Hooligan | 

    #122 Cynical: “Thanks for qualifying the term ‘anarchist,’ Helmut. The most insidious misconception of anarchists is that they are violent. The term anarchist itself denotes anti-violence.”

    No problem, Cynical. I am not an anarchist, as you know from our prior discussions, but I will always defend your right to be one. I am also interested in learning about the theory, even as I question its practicality. Who am I to say what society may become if people become more independent and educated and government becomes more limited and transparent?

    I view real anarchists as my fellow “liberals” (in the truest sense of the word), so we must stick together!

  135. #135 |  Pinandpuller | 

    If a guy without a uniform or any insignias runs up in my yard and shoots my dog can I treat him like an enemy combatant?

  136. #136 |  Cynical in CA | 

    Thanks Helmut, a pleasure as always. I look at it as evolution toward non-violence. Given enough millions of years, mankind may get there.

  137. #137 |  Cynical in CA | 

    Pinandpuller, I think the answer is no, but you can do whatever you want. You shouldn’t forget that the guy with the uniform and insignias has lots of friends with uniforms and insignias. Your home may not be in Waco, but it will sure look like it if you treat LEOs as enemy combatants. Sorry to rain on your parade.

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