Morning Links

Thursday, May 6th, 2010

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137 Responses to “Morning Links”

  1. #1 |  Helmut O' Hooligan | 

    #77 Boyd Durkin: “In all cases the crowds were peacefully moving away and it was the cops who accounted for 100% (ok, maybe 99%) of the violence and danger.”

    Haven’t seen too much of the footage from Greece, but I would also point out that yesterday some “Anarchists” (Read: Communists in anti-authoritarian drag) threw a Molotov Cocktail into a bank and killed three people. I don’t point this out to excuse use of force against peaceful protesters, just saying you might want to adjust your percentages a bit. Rioting is a national past time in Greece, particularly by “anarchists,” who are often far from peaceful.

  2. #2 |  John | 

    Marty wrote:

    based on? the anti-immigration argument has been around since there’s been immigration. I can find no examples of a free country falling apart due to immigration. Many European cities are becoming swamped with muslim ghettos, but that’s because they’re attracting people to their welfare systems. immigrants know that when they come to America, they’re expected to hustle…

    There are some differences between this wave of Mexican immigration and previous waves that the US has experienced. We’ve been inundated with, among others, vast numbers of Irish and Chinese. But large sections of the United States never belonged to Ireland or China, but large sections of the US used to belong to Mexico. And Irish and Chinese who came to America during the 19th Century were making a largely permanent move. Going back to Europe was a tremendous ordeal, unlike the periodic moves of Mexicans north and south of the US-Mexican border. A 19th Century immigrant from Europe or Asia was leaving his country behind in a way that the 21st Century Mexican doesn’t. The consequences are obvious — the Mexican immigrant population isn’t assimilating into the US culture. Do you deny this?

    What’s happening is not so much immigration as colonization. Mexico is, by demographic means, colonizing the southwestern United States (among other locations). Large swaths of US territory are less affiliated with the English-speaking culture of the United States and more affiliated with a Spanish-speaking Latin American culture.

  3. #3 |  Frank | 

    And for those who believe that TSA’s electronic strip search machines aren’t all that bad, google “TSA officer small penis” for lots of LOL.

  4. #4 |  Helmut O' Hooligan | 

    #102 John: “Large swaths of US territory are less affiliated with the English-speaking culture of the United States and more affiliated with a Spanish-speaking Latin American culture.”

    Yeah yeah. We’ve heard this “oh God the good white folk are being outnumbered by them thar Mexicans” fear-mongering before. Colonization? Really? You are stealing Pat Buchanan’s rhetoric, John.

    Yes, many Mexican immigrants come here to work here for brief periods to work and then to go home. So what! Are you saying assimilate or get out? I hope you grow your own vegetables, Gringo! I would urge you to watch the movie “A Day Without a Mexican” for a satirical look at what might happen if we keep using Mexicans as a convenient whipping boy.

    And as the husband of a Mexican immigrant who has put up with years of bureaucaratic non-sense to become naturalized, in spite of the fact that she has worked hard and graduated from college, let me just add, chinga tu madre, mi amigo!

  5. #5 |  God's Own Drunk | 

    It amazes me how many people who claim this is “the best country on earth” hate so many of it’s basic principles and so many of the people inside it.

  6. #6 |  John | 

    Helmut O’ Hooligan wrote:

    Yeah yeah. We’ve heard this “oh God the good white folk are being outnumbered by them thar Mexicans” fear-mongering before. Colonization? Really? You are stealing Pat Buchanan’s rhetoric, John.

    So are you saying that the US is not being colonized by Mexico? Are you saying that the Mexican immigrant population is actually assimilating into the US? What precisely is your view?

  7. #7 |  El Scorcho | 

    I live on the border in Arizona. I’m not really pleased with the law and fear the power we give police, but also am very frustrated with our immigration policies that don’t seem to work. I think we should let many more people come here legally, but give them citizenship only after they prove they want to stay here and become US citizens for good. It can be very frustrating when you see fraud commited by people to use our services such as schools and hospitals for free.

    I know of kids who got grants and loans for college and their parents own restaurants and companies in Mexico and don’t report the income. Others who live in Mexico for cheap housing and taxes and cross the border everyday to use our schools. The ER in our city is full of people who aren’t citizens, don’t live here, don’t pay taxes, don’t pay for care and can’t be refused treatment. Meanwhile, I pay $700 per visit just for the physicians assistant to misdiagnose me, I wonder who else I am subsidizing.

    If you look into many of the hispanic movements, they don’t want to be US citizens, they want the southwestern part of the US to go back to Mexico, so they can shit it up too. My problem is with the ethnic identity movements that preach hate and victimhood.

    Let me say again, I don’t like this law. But don’t ignore the fact that illegal aliens are abusing the system and breaking our laws.

  8. #8 |  MattinCincy | 

    Somebody please help me out here ’cause I’m having trouble with the Libertarian mind set on this.
    Is the premise “it is too hard to become a U.S. Citizen that is why we have so many illegal aliens.”? And the solution is “make it easier to become a U.S. citizen.”?

    Why would I, you, or anyone be inclined to believe that these illegal aliens/undocumented workers/nonpaperpeople would suddenly start following the law just because it’s a little easier? I might be sold on that if there existed evidence that millions of Mexicans are turned down for naturalization each year. Then I’d know they at least tried, and failed, and had some sort of respect for structure, and a least SOME law. Otherwise I have to believe that those climbing the fences, and slogging through the deserts would, upon hearing of the eaiser naturalization policy, either say “what’s a naturalization policy”, or “yeah, that’s cool and all, but climbing this fence is still easier.”

  9. #9 |  André Kenji | 

    I live in São Paulo, Brazil, one of the places with higher immigrant population of the whole South America, and I´m the grandson of Japanese immigrants. All that I can say is that immigration is very good. Most of the livestock and farming industry of São Paulo was improved by innovations brought by Japanese Immigrants, and several factories and businesses where founded by German, Lebanese, Jewish, Italian and whatever immigrants. One of the biggest hotels of the city of São Paulo is called “Maksoud Plaza”, a Polish Jew founded the biggest chain store in the country;

    And most of these Germans and Japanese intended to go home, there was no effort to “make these people adopt the local culture”(Maybe with the exception of the prohibition of radio in foreign languages).

    The country did not break away and became richer, not poorer, under that process.

    By the way, regarding identification of Illegal Immigrants, you can do what most Latin American countries do: require *everyone* to carry an ID card. I have to carry mine everywhere, because I can be stopped by the cops for some reason. It´s not Libertarian in any sense, and, stop, most Latin American countries have sizable populations of undocumented workers.

  10. #10 |  Marv Hamlish | 

    We could use some Germans and Japanese coming to America. I think that if you got a large influx of German and Japanese in Brazil it probably improved that country much.

  11. #11 |  Marv Hamlish | 

    Lakers Coach Phil Jackson doesn’t see it that way. “Am I crazy, or am I the only one that heard [the legislature] say ‘we just took the United States immigration law and adapted it to our state,” he said. “I don’t think teams should get involved in the political stuff.

    New Lakers fan!!!

  12. #12 |  qwints | 

    @108, Reason did an article about the difficulties of the immigration process a couple years back.

    http://www.advancingequality.org/attachments/files/201/Immigration_Chart.pdf

    The wikipedia page also does a decent job of explaining the process of applying for permanent residency.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permanent_residence_(United_States)#Immigration_eligibility_and_quotas

    Bottom line, even if you’re a hard worker willing to work long hours for low, it may very well be impossible to work in the U.S. legally. We should also remember that the US had no caps on immigration until 1875 and didn’t seriously restrict it until anti-Asian feeling led to a ban on Chinese immigrants. When I here people spouting rhetoric that could have come out of a Know-Knothing party, I’m glad I’m not on their side.

  13. #13 |  Pinandpuller | 

    I think the libertarian solution for Mexico would be to give them all guns.

  14. #14 |  Marty | 

    some of you guys sound like the old man in Gran Torino!

  15. #15 |  Marty | 

    #108 Mattincincy-

    ‘I might be sold on that if there existed evidence that millions of Mexicans are turned down for naturalization each year.’

    I tried posing as a Mexican male and navigating our immigration process. I could not get in. The guys who own the grocery/donut store down the street from where I work come from a wealthy family and it took them a couple years (with a lawyer working for them) to legally get in. THEN, to bring your family, you’re looking at several more years.

    Unless you travel, try to immigrate, try to start a business, have someone in your family incarcerated, etc you won’t understand the ‘libertarian perspective’. This is abusive bureaucracy at its worst.

    it’s easy to find articles outlining the basics…

    http://www.ehow.com/how_4845246_legally-immigrate-america.html

  16. #16 |  Boyd Durkin | 

    I am not a libertarian, so these are just my views.

    My goal is to have a massive amount of immigrants flood America and help collapse the entitlement programs, but that’s just the beginning. I want them to bankrupt the tax payers and get everyone very, very angry. I want riots and revolution. I want to see the racism, hate, fear, and lunacy that exists scratch-deep inside all people.

    I want the post-revolutionary government to be even more corrupt and more restrictive…leading to another revolution.

    I want this process to continue (maybe three dozen times) until no relic of American history, values, or way-of-life remains.

    I hope to be one of the last people alive in this wasteland brought on by immigrants. I’ll set traps to snare people and then stand over them and say something like “WHERE IS YOUR GOD NOW?” or scream quotes from The Notebook at them because not enough people quote romance movies. “So it’s not gonna be easy. It’s gonna be really hard. We’re gonna have to work at this every day, but I want to do that because I want you” will strike fear in my enemies!

    So, that’s my plan. Except that the real threat of immigrants comes from America’s embrace of socialism.

  17. #17 |  Marty | 

    I’m gonna yell, ‘YOU HAD ME AT HELLO!’ our enemies will cower!

  18. #18 |  Boyd Durkin | 

    Marty,
    Easy there. Never go full retard.

  19. #19 |  Boyd Durkin | 

    Boyd Durkin, I can not help but notice you are a scrotum with a small penis growing between you balls. Boyd, I have done more reading during the last 20 years than almost any retard you can name. I am up to date man, and I have my facts down. I think you are a border-line homosexual and are not smart.

    Once again it appears an Agitator poster has a live video in my small room and can also read my very mind.

    Yes, I am literally a scrotum that has a small penis AND I also have balls. Now you know my shame. I am literally a scrotum that has balls and a small penis. When I was born, the medicine people said I confused their think-box with my condition. Special Lupito (my Mexican neighbor) is the only retard I can name and he cannot read, so Marv’s reading accomplishments are factual. I tip my hat to you, good sir. I do not now, nor have I ever, claimed to be smart as schooling was difficult for a scrotum-shaped child. Marv is correct again. However; there is nothing border-line about my homosexuality. Honey-child, my homosexuality is fabulous!*

    * No, it isn’t. Mostly because of my small penis. And, the fact that I’m an actual scrotum which is hard to disguise with a pea coat and silk scarf. Also, the scrotum odor is difficult to mask no matter how much Drakkar Noir I use. Damn you, Marv. Well played.

  20. #20 |  Marv Hamlish | 

    Thanks Boyd, and did you like my post back at 110 about how we could use more Germans and Japanese in America? See I’m not a racist. I grew up in a town in Wisconsin that had many Danish, Dutch, German, Swedes, and even some of the Irish were not criminals. Oh we had a regular melting pot up dare!

  21. #21 |  Cynical in CA | 

    The problem is not immigration. The problem is socialism.

    Of course the true libertarian position is open borders. Duh! Humans have an inalienable right to move. Taken to its logical opposite extreme, it would be ethical if a law were passed confining every human to a 3’x3′ box.

    The “problem,” with scare quotes because is should not exist and is a specious claim even under present circumstances, is that “illegal immigrants” suck taxpayers dry and commit an inordinate amount of violent crime. As I said, both these claims are specious in fact, but the root problem is socialism, or taxation in general.

    Eliminate the welfare state and who gives a shit how many people and of what race are in this land? Who can ethically dictate to me with whom I am to associate and on what terms?

    What a ridiculously facile discussion. A 3rd-grader would understand these arguments.

  22. #22 |  Cynical in CA | 

    #101 | Helmut O’ Hooligan — ” I would also point out that yesterday some “Anarchists” (Read: Communists in anti-authoritarian drag) threw a Molotov Cocktail into a bank and killed three people…. Rioting is a national past time in Greece, particularly by “anarchists,” who are often far from peaceful.”

    Thanks for qualifying the term “anarchist,” Helmut. The most insidious misconception of anarchists is that they are violent. The term anarchist itself denotes anti-violence.

    A violent anarchist is an impossibility. That situation is covered by the term “totalitarian,” or “statist.” Thanks for being cognizant about that.

  23. #23 |  Cynical in CA | 

    Re: puppycide

    Hasn’t it all been said already? With a dog in every household and armed agents of the State roaming at will, the interests of dog owners and the State will collide like electrons in an atom-smasher until either the State disappears or dogs disappear.

    I don’t see either one going away anytime soon, much as I hope for the demise of the State, so strap yourselves in for more and more and more puppycide.

    In the meantime, why don’t you adopt a dog from a shelter? You know, those nice places where 10,000 dogs die for every one shot by a cop?

    Eye on the big picture, people.

  24. #24 |  random guy | 

    I still like Marv, to be honest there was to much good Karma running around the comments here before he showed up, we needed a proper asshole to really get us going.

    Boyd, I have done more reading during the last 20 years than almost any retard you can name.

    Being well read and retarded still means you’re retarded. Normally you don’t advertise things like that.

  25. #25 |  JS | 

    Marv Hamlish ” and even some of the Irish were not criminals.”

    lol ok that was just funny!

  26. #26 |  jrb | 

    If only we had never started that Bear Patrol

  27. #27 |  Frank Hummel | 

    I guess Greek police are not afraid of dogs. Nice story abt this pup in Greece that seems to show up at protests.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/gallery/2010/may/06/greece-protest

  28. #28 |  Marty | 

    Cynical-

    ‘In the meantime, why don’t you adopt a dog from a shelter? You know, those nice places where 10,000 dogs die for every one shot by a cop?’

    this is a little like comparing abortion to murder- you can argue that, but I don’t see it. A HUGE part of the puppycide issue is the intrusion into privacy by the state and well-cared for and loved pets being snuffed. It would seem that the cops could go to the shelter and snuff out a few dogs to get their dog-killing fix in. It’s still evil, but they wouldn’t have to terrorize citizens to do it.

    of course, I agree completely with your open border and welfare points…

  29. #29 |  Marv Hamlish | 

    Random Guy you should stop screwing sheep, in many states it’s against the law. Plus let’s be honest the wind blows fcking fierce in W. Texas.

    J.S love you brother, you get it. If you live in the United States of America and cant take a joke??? In the USA we’re all mutants, and the to so many of us the most important thing is just to not get arrested!\
    11!!!!11!!!!!!!!!!111

  30. #30 |  Cynical in CA | 

    Marty, my basic point is that there is rampant overpopulation of dogs, in which dog owners are partially complicit, and which dog owners can help ameliorate by reducing said overpopulation by neutering or by adopting and caring for shelter animals instead of wringing their hands and gnashing their teeth over a very small (by comparison) issue that will never be solved.

    You won’t find a more ardent opponent of State intrusion into privacy than I. But my opposition does nothing to solve the problem. Where the State is, there is tyranny in all its forms.

  31. #31 |  random guy | 

    Looks like Marv went ahead and took my advice:

    http://www.theagitator.com/2010/05/04/yella-joe-lieberman/#comment-393836

    Say something stupid, get criticized for it, call critic a sheep f*cker, then immediately criticize everyone for not being able to take a joke. You are one class act pal.

    In case you don’t understand, your own comment implied that you were retarded, thus humor hollowed. Ridiculous bestiality accusations kind of supports that notion instead of disproving it.

  32. #32 |  Cynical in CA | 

    Most Americans think that freedom means the government gets to tell us who can come here and live with us. Even many Americans who believe strongly in free trade in goods can’t quite bring themselves to embrace free movement of people. De-socialize society and the immigration “problem” resolves itself into a great blessing for us all. Foreigners will come—the best and hardiest of them—because of the abundance of opportunity a free society represents. — Lawrence W. Reed, The Freeman [October 1994]

  33. #33 |  Marty | 

    good posts, Cynical!

  34. #34 |  Helmut O' Hooligan | 

    #122 Cynical: “Thanks for qualifying the term ‘anarchist,’ Helmut. The most insidious misconception of anarchists is that they are violent. The term anarchist itself denotes anti-violence.”

    No problem, Cynical. I am not an anarchist, as you know from our prior discussions, but I will always defend your right to be one. I am also interested in learning about the theory, even as I question its practicality. Who am I to say what society may become if people become more independent and educated and government becomes more limited and transparent?

    I view real anarchists as my fellow “liberals” (in the truest sense of the word), so we must stick together!

  35. #35 |  Pinandpuller | 

    If a guy without a uniform or any insignias runs up in my yard and shoots my dog can I treat him like an enemy combatant?

  36. #36 |  Cynical in CA | 

    Thanks Helmut, a pleasure as always. I look at it as evolution toward non-violence. Given enough millions of years, mankind may get there.

  37. #37 |  Cynical in CA | 

    Pinandpuller, I think the answer is no, but you can do whatever you want. You shouldn’t forget that the guy with the uniform and insignias has lots of friends with uniforms and insignias. Your home may not be in Waco, but it will sure look like it if you treat LEOs as enemy combatants. Sorry to rain on your parade.