TheAgitator.com
Afternoon Links
Thursday, April 15th, 2010- A list of words David Foster Wallace circled in his dictionary. I don’t know why, but I find this intriguing.
- Old pictures of beards.
- Report: Military diagnosing personality disorders in troops as pre-existing so it can avoid paying benefits.
- Taser International meths up some sheep, then shocks them to test the weapon’s lethality. In addition to the general cruelty, these don’t seem like the sort of tests a company already certain of its product’s “non-lethal” nature would be doing, do they?
- DOJ wants the power to snoop on email without a warrant.
Let me get this straight.
The Government has the resources to read and analyze every E-mail written, but can’t implement an E-File system for tax returns that doesn’t suck balls?
As to Taser International. A controlled product test using animals. Where’s the problem, here? You would prefer they make unfounded claims? All cynicism aside, conducting controlled tests and publishing the results is how science works. Now… if the testing is a sham, that would be different. But there’s no indication of that in the article.
So, Yahoo stands tall on civil liberties, as long as they’re Americans’? I wonder how prison is treating that Chinese dissident…
What’s Taser International’s idea here? That if the people they kill are high on drugs, that it’s OK or something?
the military claiming soldiers are ‘lying’ or have ‘pre-existing’ conditions is exactly what prisons do to prisoners…
stories like these will be touching all of us (or someone close to us) very soon. it’s the price we’re gonna pay for giving the govt more control over us.
So Taser’s fucked if they do and fucked if they don’t, right? You think all that bacon comes from plants? The truth is regardless of Taser abuse, their disabling power saves lives all the time.
bob-
I think the issue with taser is that the products should’ve been tested before being implemented. they’ve been saying how safe they are forever, but they’re just now running these tests?!!
I can’t believe PETA hasn’t weighed in on this…
“What’s Taser International’s idea here? That if the people they kill are high on drugs, that it’s OK or something?”
The idea is to test the theory that people on meth are more likely to die or suffer serious harm from a Taser shock than those who aren’t cranked up.
I just want to say that I’ve seen first hand where an example like that story about the Military diagnosing mental health problems has happened. They say it’s pre-exisiting or they say it’s a personality disorder (not a mental illness) so the soldier is afforded less access to assistance and treatment. Very shameful.
“I think the issue with taser is that the products should’ve been tested before being implemented. they’ve been saying how safe they are forever, but they’re just now running these tests?!!”
Yes they’re just now running tests on meth addled farm animals. You think this was a no-brainer before the product’s introduction? They have been tested on humans countless times before they were introduced. The companies own people get tased in demos all the freaking time. They may not be without risk, but the are undoubtedly better than getting shot with a firearm. If Tasers are banned from law enforcement, more citizens will surely die.
#5 Thats a little bit like saying that cigarettes save lives because many people who smoke would have turned to harder and more dangerous drugs that would have killed them.
It’s undoubtedly true that Tasers have been used in situations where guns would have othrwise been and people are alive because of that fact. But you’re missing the point. Tasers all are abused, and that fact can’t be disregarded, because some of the abuses lead to deaths whereguns would otherwise have NOT been used. The point isn’t to eliminate Tasers altogether but to make sure they are not abused and that people know exactly the risks, so they don’t go around abusing them b/c they think it’s safe.
As for the DOJ story, this is basically identical to what the Bush DOJ did when doing the warrantless wiretapping – they ordered companies to hand over information that could not be provided lawfully. Of course, from what we know, the other program was more widespread and ongoing, but, the legalities are essentially identical.
‘If Tasers are banned from law enforcement, more citizens will surely die.’
are there any stats that support this? what are the numbers for shootings before and after tasers were introduced?
it seems that if citizen safety is really the issue, cops would be pushing for an end to drug prohibition and most swat raids…
#1:
I could be wrong but I think the point is that Tasers are marketed as non-lethal while they are still testing that premise.
Tasers aren’t usually used instead of guns, they’re usually used instead of billy clubs. The problem is, billy clubs leave marks, while tazers do not. So a police officer will generally only use a billy club when it’s justified because the public would be horrified if someone was beaten by a police officer just for swearing. However, zapping a kid for telling a cop to fuck off is quite ok because it doesn’t leave a mark.
Careful with this line of thinking. I’ll gladly chug a pint of tequilla if it means you’ll buy $2 million worth of it, but that doesn’t make it health food.
Many best-practices are counter-intuitive to those outside a particular profession, which is why we have experts that really know how to test shit. For example, I guarantee you Taser didn’t test on the 75-year old receptionist who just had quad bypass nor on the 8-year old visiting for “take your daughter to work” day. The question isn’t “can a healthy, sober, and calm 25-year old take a shock?”
I don’t know Taser’s testing. I haven’t seen it, nor have I been able to find anyone who has seen it. So, there is a vaccuum into which people will fill with whatever suits them.
I am not against animal testing; however there are humane animal tests and horrific animal test (IMHO).
Better yet, I’ll bet anyone willing that Taser will indeed be proven to be lethal in some cases (aka: NOT non-lethal) within the next 15 years. The bet would be for whatever amount you want and the details can be hammered out later. Just be sure you can pay up. Chuck Norris is my collection agent.
A lot of old timers would say Tasers are used instead of talking.
I actually agree with Carl on this (kinda). IMO Tasers have created a culture of “Fuck it, just taser him.” Hey, it beats working. Without Tasers, the culture could quickly slide into “Fuck it, just shoot him.”
But there is still nothing superior about this line of thinking by LEOs, nor does it validate the claim of Tasers as non-lethal and their abundant use.
I recall a case in New York City back in the 90s where a couple of cops were convicted of assaulting a prisoner precisely because their Tasers left burn marks all over his back. Are newer Tasers less prone to this?
“However, zapping a kid for telling a cop to fuck off is quite ok because it doesn’t leave a mark.”
I really hope this is sarcasim!
As for the DOJ….SSDPresident!
As for Sgt. Luther, anyone who has served in the Army has seen someone undeserving get screwed over. Of course, sometimes those deserving of a screwing don’t get it…
I can’t attest to the veracity of his claims one way or the other, but I can believe everything he says could be true. I do know that most field-grade officers are well versed in CYA, truth be damned. This looks like a case where the Sgt. probably should have practiced a little of his own CYA and turned the tables on them. Don’t sign, deal with the suck, and contact JAG. Document every screwup of those trying to burn him, and use it as leverage. if that sounds cold, so be it. I’ve seen it firsthand, and it works. It’s certainly the hard road, but being principled often is.
The sad fact is that many enlisted soldiers don’t know what recourse and actual power they have, and the “bad” officers count on this. Also, playing such beauraucratic games in a combat zone isn’t as easy as it is stateside.
It’s a shame such games have to be played when the real effort should be on fighting the war, finishing up, and getting both sides home and back to living in peace. War is a horrible thing, and I fear it is never going to go away. Needless wars are even worse…until war does end, the casualties will continue to mount.
I believe there has been a subtle language/marketing change for Tasers from “non-lethal” to “less-lethal”. But still. The problem with Tasers isn’t their use in place of guns (usually a good thing), but their use for obtaining compliance – which they were not designed for.
However: how often have any of us seen Taser use that was said (outside of truly egregious incidents) to be in violation of agency policy, even when it violated common sense? Very few, I would imagine.
I suspect that the feds use a less stringent standard for “storage” to define electronic possession of illicit material!
Report: Military diagnosing personality disorders in troops as pre-existing so it can avoid paying benefits
This is bullshit. Makes my fucking blood boil. Right or wrong, these guys laid their lives on the line for us. They don’t deserve this shit. A lovely example of the banality of evil. Article should be required reading for anyone thinking of signing up.
Would somebody please explain to me again how a government run health plan is more responsive to their clients than private plans?
Aresen-
Govt run health care won’t result in more responsiveness for their clients, but it will result in more compliance to the rulers. The health plans will decide how much and what kind of pain medicines are available. they’ll decide if people who aren’t taking steps to ‘correct’ their issues (obesity, nicotine or alcohol addiction, etc) will get coverage. birth control will no longer be a private matter…
high school kids are already drug tested ‘just because’- these kids are growing up used to these routine intrusions. in a few years, they’ll be running our health care system.
people use VA as a safety net, because it’s not as good as private healthcare. you never hear about guards or wardens signing into the ’state of the art’ clinics in prisons (which are many times staffed by poorly credentialed physicians and nurses). the powerful won’t get the same ’state of the art’ healthcare most of us are going to be ‘entitled’ to, I’m sure.
“… these don’t seem like the sort of tests a company already certain of its product’s “non-lethal” nature would be doing, do they?”
The key fact is that the sheep are given methamphetamines first. Taser shocks do not normally induce heart arrhythmias in reasonably healthy adults, but amphetamines in typical doses might make the heart more susceptible to electric shock-induced arrhythmia. People on high doses of amphetamines might easily go into a fatal arrhythmia after a moderate electric shock, so that study is being done to correlate amphetamine levels with susceptibility to shock-induced arrhythmias.
I hope a lot of sheep die because that might discourage future use of Tasers.
Re: Warrantless email seizure –
The people who back this, or who think it is ‘necessary’ so they can go on loving the great freedoms of the great country of the great UNITED STATES OF ‘MERICA have forgotten that our country was founded PRECISELY TO STOP SHIT LIKE THIS.
It makes me so fucking mad that these people don’t get it, that the government (and by that I mean the faces behind it / in it, not the faceless machine) doesn’t get it. Our nation was founded on the premise that governmental intrusion and control is a bad thing. We need some delegates to, for example, say “YO FRANCE I AM DIPLOMAT, LET’S PARLEY.” We DON’T need delegates, appointees, or unionized royalty (employed for life!) reading our fucking email.
Not yours, you pieces of shit.
I don’t get the snark here. Are Tasers supposed to be tested once and for all? Assume that Tasers are, in fact, generally safe. Does that mean that they are safe in all situation? That no more testing should be done?
I guess there have been claims that people under the influence of drugs are more likely to be injured when tasered. If so then shouldn’t we know about this?
Radley’s reaction sounds like the Federal government’s claim that since marijuana is known to be a dangerous drug we should not do any medical experiments with it.
Don’t Tase me, baa!
Don’t Tase me, baa!
LOL!!
It truly is amazing how little supporting the troops has to do with supporting actual troops.
I don’t think that you can diagnose personality disorders as anything but pre-existing. if soldiers get traumatized it’s something else. personality disorders can’t be acquired.