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	<title>Comments on: Sunday Links</title>
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	<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2010/02/28/sunday-links-26/</link>
	<description>It rankles me when somebody tries to tell somebody what to do.</description>
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		<title>By: albatross</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2010/02/28/sunday-links-26/comment-page-2/#comment-386516</link>
		<dc:creator>albatross</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Mar 2010 14:39:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=16165#comment-386516</guid>
		<description>I think this professor&#039;s email was perfect, and was a favor to the student.  Having made it clear that the student had p-ssed him off, he was almost certainly not going to be seeing the student again.  But he responded to the student&#039;s complaint email with some sarcasm and snark, but also with some real and useful guidance at the end.  That was valuable, and the snark might have gotten the kid&#039;s attention enough to get him to listen.  

When you can&#039;t be troubled to do the easy stuff like showing up on time, being courteous, dressing as expected, being prepared for meetings, etc., your ability to do the hard stuff is not going to matter much.  That&#039;s an important lesson, one many people (like me) had to learn the hard way to get.  Try showing up half an hour late for a meeting with the boss at your first job, and see if he strains himself being polite with you.  Try coming to a meeting with a consulting client completely and obviously unprepared, and see how that goes for you.  

There&#039;s a time for letting someone know, in no uncertain terms, that they&#039;ve fucked up and need to change their approach.  Being too polite to do that means you&#039;re not doing your job as a teacher or a boss.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think this professor&#8217;s email was perfect, and was a favor to the student.  Having made it clear that the student had p-ssed him off, he was almost certainly not going to be seeing the student again.  But he responded to the student&#8217;s complaint email with some sarcasm and snark, but also with some real and useful guidance at the end.  That was valuable, and the snark might have gotten the kid&#8217;s attention enough to get him to listen.  </p>
<p>When you can&#8217;t be troubled to do the easy stuff like showing up on time, being courteous, dressing as expected, being prepared for meetings, etc., your ability to do the hard stuff is not going to matter much.  That&#8217;s an important lesson, one many people (like me) had to learn the hard way to get.  Try showing up half an hour late for a meeting with the boss at your first job, and see if he strains himself being polite with you.  Try coming to a meeting with a consulting client completely and obviously unprepared, and see how that goes for you.  </p>
<p>There&#8217;s a time for letting someone know, in no uncertain terms, that they&#8217;ve fucked up and need to change their approach.  Being too polite to do that means you&#8217;re not doing your job as a teacher or a boss.</p>
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		<title>By: Mo</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2010/02/28/sunday-links-26/comment-page-2/#comment-386490</link>
		<dc:creator>Mo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Mar 2010 12:01:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=16165#comment-386490</guid>
		<description>Sometimes students have legit reasons for being late, like on-campus interviews. Professors understand legit reasons for being late. However, coming late because you&#039;re class hopping and not telling the professor is really unprofessional and discourteous.

Just because you paid for a service doesn&#039;t mean you get to do whatever you want. You can&#039;t take a crap in the middle of a restaurant and say, &quot;I paid $80 for my meal, you can&#039;t tell me what I can do!&quot; When I was in grad school, I always hated self-important jackasses that felt that they didn&#039;t have to operate under the class&#039; rules because they&#039;re paying tuition. Yeah a lot of professors are d-bags, but it&#039;s their class and their rules (as long as they comply with university policy).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sometimes students have legit reasons for being late, like on-campus interviews. Professors understand legit reasons for being late. However, coming late because you&#8217;re class hopping and not telling the professor is really unprofessional and discourteous.</p>
<p>Just because you paid for a service doesn&#8217;t mean you get to do whatever you want. You can&#8217;t take a crap in the middle of a restaurant and say, &#8220;I paid $80 for my meal, you can&#8217;t tell me what I can do!&#8221; When I was in grad school, I always hated self-important jackasses that felt that they didn&#8217;t have to operate under the class&#8217; rules because they&#8217;re paying tuition. Yeah a lot of professors are d-bags, but it&#8217;s their class and their rules (as long as they comply with university policy).</p>
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		<title>By: markm</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2010/02/28/sunday-links-26/comment-page-2/#comment-386489</link>
		<dc:creator>markm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Mar 2010 11:52:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=16165#comment-386489</guid>
		<description>Unless Senator Kohl finds time to read every bill he votes for, fussing about NBC&#039;s Olympic coverage is a gross misallocation of a limited resource.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Unless Senator Kohl finds time to read every bill he votes for, fussing about NBC&#8217;s Olympic coverage is a gross misallocation of a limited resource.</p>
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		<title>By: Burrow Owl</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2010/02/28/sunday-links-26/comment-page-2/#comment-386477</link>
		<dc:creator>Burrow Owl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Mar 2010 03:00:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=16165#comment-386477</guid>
		<description>Tom G @ #42:

The businessman (importer) who is at the center of this was interviewed on the Lars Larson radio show Friday afternoon.... according to him, he has, on more than one occasion, found that the ATF and/or Customs was (publicly) auctioning off the supposed contraband that had been stolen from him in the past.
The filthy thieving shitbags ain&#039;t even trying to hide it anymore.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tom G @ #42:</p>
<p>The businessman (importer) who is at the center of this was interviewed on the Lars Larson radio show Friday afternoon&#8230;. according to him, he has, on more than one occasion, found that the ATF and/or Customs was (publicly) auctioning off the supposed contraband that had been stolen from him in the past.<br />
The filthy thieving shitbags ain&#8217;t even trying to hide it anymore.</p>
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		<title>By: Emily</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2010/02/28/sunday-links-26/comment-page-2/#comment-386476</link>
		<dc:creator>Emily</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Mar 2010 02:58:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=16165#comment-386476</guid>
		<description>Also - the concept that payment of tuition gives students to act disrespectfully or show up late is baffling. I am a student - yes, I pay the school that pays the teacher to teach me. 

But I accept, upon payment of tuition, that I will uphold MY end of the deal - I will come to class, on time, prepared, and turn in assignments. If I don&#039;t do these things, and I am failed, you think I could get angry at the TEACHER? Of course not! I pay the teacher to teach in his own way. If I do not like his policies - on grading, lateness, or curriculum, I am free to take another class or leave the institution. But he should never have to change his policies simply because I do not like them. If enough students dislike the policy, no one will take his class, and he&#039;ll change them on his own. Its like the free market of academia.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Also &#8211; the concept that payment of tuition gives students to act disrespectfully or show up late is baffling. I am a student &#8211; yes, I pay the school that pays the teacher to teach me. </p>
<p>But I accept, upon payment of tuition, that I will uphold MY end of the deal &#8211; I will come to class, on time, prepared, and turn in assignments. If I don&#8217;t do these things, and I am failed, you think I could get angry at the TEACHER? Of course not! I pay the teacher to teach in his own way. If I do not like his policies &#8211; on grading, lateness, or curriculum, I am free to take another class or leave the institution. But he should never have to change his policies simply because I do not like them. If enough students dislike the policy, no one will take his class, and he&#8217;ll change them on his own. Its like the free market of academia.</p>
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		<title>By: Emily</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2010/02/28/sunday-links-26/comment-page-2/#comment-386473</link>
		<dc:creator>Emily</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Mar 2010 02:52:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=16165#comment-386473</guid>
		<description>The student explains in his email that he was late because he wanted to find out which classes were interesting. That is fine, and shows a degree of interest that is unusual among a lot of students. 

But you need to get permission prior to doing so - it is not only disrespectful to the prof, who will now have to waste class time handing you a syllabus and answering the questions you inevitably have, but to the students who DID show up on time and now have to deal with your lateness. 

To avoid this situation, ask for a syllabus before the first day - better yet, when registering, ask for 15 minutes of the professors time to discuss the objectives of the course. Not only will he be thrilled to talk to a student who is interested in his subject, he will be impressed with your initiative. 

This kid is lazy and he is unfortunate that he won&#039;t get to take a class with a professor that will exemplify the high standards that will be expected of him upon graduation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The student explains in his email that he was late because he wanted to find out which classes were interesting. That is fine, and shows a degree of interest that is unusual among a lot of students. </p>
<p>But you need to get permission prior to doing so &#8211; it is not only disrespectful to the prof, who will now have to waste class time handing you a syllabus and answering the questions you inevitably have, but to the students who DID show up on time and now have to deal with your lateness. </p>
<p>To avoid this situation, ask for a syllabus before the first day &#8211; better yet, when registering, ask for 15 minutes of the professors time to discuss the objectives of the course. Not only will he be thrilled to talk to a student who is interested in his subject, he will be impressed with your initiative. </p>
<p>This kid is lazy and he is unfortunate that he won&#8217;t get to take a class with a professor that will exemplify the high standards that will be expected of him upon graduation.</p>
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		<title>By: Robin</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2010/02/28/sunday-links-26/comment-page-2/#comment-386466</link>
		<dc:creator>Robin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Mar 2010 23:56:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=16165#comment-386466</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s called courtesy, damn it!  Common courtesy!!!!!!  You can&#039;t just stroll into class late!  It&#039;s not polite!!  Has the whole world gone crazy!!!!!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s called courtesy, damn it!  Common courtesy!!!!!!  You can&#8217;t just stroll into class late!  It&#8217;s not polite!!  Has the whole world gone crazy!!!!!!</p>
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		<title>By: Robin</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2010/02/28/sunday-links-26/comment-page-2/#comment-386465</link>
		<dc:creator>Robin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Mar 2010 23:55:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=16165#comment-386465</guid>
		<description>#47--Yes.  Arriving late is rude...I guess.  What does contacting the professor have to do with entering quickly and quietly?  Maybe these fancy pants schools are just full of a bunch of spoiled disruptive brats, and that&#039;s why I don&#039;t get this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#47&#8211;Yes.  Arriving late is rude&#8230;I guess.  What does contacting the professor have to do with entering quickly and quietly?  Maybe these fancy pants schools are just full of a bunch of spoiled disruptive brats, and that&#8217;s why I don&#8217;t get this.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew Williams</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2010/02/28/sunday-links-26/comment-page-2/#comment-386463</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew Williams</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Mar 2010 23:04:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=16165#comment-386463</guid>
		<description>#7

#6–Why exactly do you contact the professor before hand if you know you’re going to be late? Does that somehow make arriving late less disruptive?

It&#039;s called courtesy. And yes, it can, if you enter quickly and sit down quietly, having turned off all your e-paraphenalia in advance.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#7</p>
<p>#6–Why exactly do you contact the professor before hand if you know you’re going to be late? Does that somehow make arriving late less disruptive?</p>
<p>It&#8217;s called courtesy. And yes, it can, if you enter quickly and sit down quietly, having turned off all your e-paraphenalia in advance.</p>
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		<title>By: Wavemancali</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2010/02/28/sunday-links-26/comment-page-2/#comment-386460</link>
		<dc:creator>Wavemancali</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Mar 2010 22:09:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=16165#comment-386460</guid>
		<description>#30 Robert
Thank you, that&#039;s a great aspect of the case that I hadn&#039;t seen elsewhere.

As to the fines for businesses that defy smoking bans. Business people should never be unwillingly drafted into the role of enforcers. Cops pull over speeders, parking enforcement ticket cars why should the bar owner do for free what you are paying other people to do, especially at the cost of their own business? If you want to enforce the ban, pay for enforcement officers and harass the people that break the actual law.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#30 Robert<br />
Thank you, that&#8217;s a great aspect of the case that I hadn&#8217;t seen elsewhere.</p>
<p>As to the fines for businesses that defy smoking bans. Business people should never be unwillingly drafted into the role of enforcers. Cops pull over speeders, parking enforcement ticket cars why should the bar owner do for free what you are paying other people to do, especially at the cost of their own business? If you want to enforce the ban, pay for enforcement officers and harass the people that break the actual law.</p>
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		<title>By: B</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2010/02/28/sunday-links-26/comment-page-1/#comment-386457</link>
		<dc:creator>B</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Mar 2010 20:41:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=16165#comment-386457</guid>
		<description>Robin--no worries!  We&#039;ve all been there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Robin&#8211;no worries!  We&#8217;ve all been there.</p>
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		<title>By: anonanerd</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2010/02/28/sunday-links-26/comment-page-1/#comment-386456</link>
		<dc:creator>anonanerd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Mar 2010 19:44:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=16165#comment-386456</guid>
		<description>Ive never been able to actually care about the olympics :(</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ive never been able to actually care about the olympics :(</p>
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		<title>By: Matt</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2010/02/28/sunday-links-26/comment-page-1/#comment-386454</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Mar 2010 19:09:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=16165#comment-386454</guid>
		<description>&quot;You didn’t come late or you missed the class. It is called Respect.&quot;

Respect? Where&#039;s the prof&#039;s respect for the student? You act like it&#039;s some huge hit the prof takes if a student comes late to class. Like I said before, it&#039;s the students&#039; loss, not the prof&#039;s.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;You didn’t come late or you missed the class. It is called Respect.&#8221;</p>
<p>Respect? Where&#8217;s the prof&#8217;s respect for the student? You act like it&#8217;s some huge hit the prof takes if a student comes late to class. Like I said before, it&#8217;s the students&#8217; loss, not the prof&#8217;s.</p>
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		<title>By: Robin</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2010/02/28/sunday-links-26/comment-page-1/#comment-386453</link>
		<dc:creator>Robin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Mar 2010 19:04:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=16165#comment-386453</guid>
		<description>B--Yeah.  I don&#039;t know.  I&#039;m sorry.  I&#039;ve let internet anonymity and three cups of coffee get the best of me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>B&#8211;Yeah.  I don&#8217;t know.  I&#8217;m sorry.  I&#8217;ve let internet anonymity and three cups of coffee get the best of me.</p>
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		<title>By: Let's Be Free</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2010/02/28/sunday-links-26/comment-page-1/#comment-386452</link>
		<dc:creator>Let's Be Free</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Mar 2010 18:49:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=16165#comment-386452</guid>
		<description>Let&#039;s see, that car I just signed a sales contract for, I hear there&#039;s a smart would-be MBA pressed for time and money who is having difficulty making up his mind and there are no others of that model in stock.   Why that fellow ought to be able to amble into the lot at a time of his choosing, hotwire the car and take a test drive, don&#039;t you think?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let&#8217;s see, that car I just signed a sales contract for, I hear there&#8217;s a smart would-be MBA pressed for time and money who is having difficulty making up his mind and there are no others of that model in stock.   Why that fellow ought to be able to amble into the lot at a time of his choosing, hotwire the car and take a test drive, don&#8217;t you think?</p>
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		<title>By: Bunkerville</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2010/02/28/sunday-links-26/comment-page-1/#comment-386451</link>
		<dc:creator>Bunkerville</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Mar 2010 18:46:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=16165#comment-386451</guid>
		<description>The ATF was a great find. H/T from Bunkerville!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The ATF was a great find. H/T from Bunkerville!</p>
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		<title>By: B</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2010/02/28/sunday-links-26/comment-page-1/#comment-386450</link>
		<dc:creator>B</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Mar 2010 18:45:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=16165#comment-386450</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;&quot;When it comes to these so called “elite” graduate schools, I would assume professors don’t have to worry about setting some disciplinary precedent in order to effectively control their classrooms.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

And your assumption, while perfectly reasonable, would be wrong.  

I have taught at a very expensive, very prestigious school, and have had to deal with *exactly* the sort of entitled mentality that the student&#039;s email typifies.  I have had students be half an hour late to *exams*.  I have had students who missed 1/3 of the lectures protest their grades.  Cell phones go off, people talk, etc., etc.  

Now, this behavior isn&#039;t &quot;typical&quot; in that the vast majority of my students do behave exactly as you would expect high achieving young adults to behave.  But it is hardly unusual.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>&#8220;When it comes to these so called “elite” graduate schools, I would assume professors don’t have to worry about setting some disciplinary precedent in order to effectively control their classrooms.&#8221;</i></p>
<p>And your assumption, while perfectly reasonable, would be wrong.  </p>
<p>I have taught at a very expensive, very prestigious school, and have had to deal with *exactly* the sort of entitled mentality that the student&#8217;s email typifies.  I have had students be half an hour late to *exams*.  I have had students who missed 1/3 of the lectures protest their grades.  Cell phones go off, people talk, etc., etc.  </p>
<p>Now, this behavior isn&#8217;t &#8220;typical&#8221; in that the vast majority of my students do behave exactly as you would expect high achieving young adults to behave.  But it is hardly unusual.</p>
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		<title>By: fwb</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2010/02/28/sunday-links-26/comment-page-1/#comment-386449</link>
		<dc:creator>fwb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Mar 2010 18:37:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=16165#comment-386449</guid>
		<description>Back in &#039;84 while teaching an evening course at a Cal State U, I scolded a student who came late to class.  My statement:  &quot;Where I come from we hang people for that!&quot;   Of course, my nickname became Dr. Redneck!.

But then one good example will put the others on notice!

My psych prof in the 60s simply locked the door, as did many others.  You didn&#039;t come late or you missed the class.  It is called Respect.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Back in &#8217;84 while teaching an evening course at a Cal State U, I scolded a student who came late to class.  My statement:  &#8220;Where I come from we hang people for that!&#8221;   Of course, my nickname became Dr. Redneck!.</p>
<p>But then one good example will put the others on notice!</p>
<p>My psych prof in the 60s simply locked the door, as did many others.  You didn&#8217;t come late or you missed the class.  It is called Respect.</p>
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		<title>By: Tom G</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2010/02/28/sunday-links-26/comment-page-1/#comment-386448</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom G</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Mar 2010 18:21:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=16165#comment-386448</guid>
		<description>I wonder whether the ATF is required to reimburse stores in situations like the one above - confiscating a shipment of toy guns. I bet that if you really started to look into it, you&#039;d find millions of dollars of economic loss every year due strictly to agents of our government simply stealing (without proof of private criminal activity) goods en route from one place to another.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wonder whether the ATF is required to reimburse stores in situations like the one above &#8211; confiscating a shipment of toy guns. I bet that if you really started to look into it, you&#8217;d find millions of dollars of economic loss every year due strictly to agents of our government simply stealing (without proof of private criminal activity) goods en route from one place to another.</p>
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		<title>By: buzz</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2010/02/28/sunday-links-26/comment-page-1/#comment-386447</link>
		<dc:creator>buzz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Mar 2010 18:11:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=16165#comment-386447</guid>
		<description>A student shows up a hour late.  They then tend to ask questions that were answered the first hour.  I saw it a million times when I was in college. In this case, the kid wasn&#039;t even enrolled in the class, something the Professor had no way of knowing.  So it&#039;s his policy that you do not come in late.  The other kids in class also pay tuition and I am not sure why they are expected to cater to the students who just can&#039;t make it in on time.  While you say &quot;If someone comes into work late, I can’t use that “disruption” as an excuse for losing the company money or whatever.&quot;  you do not mention what happens to the person that comes into work a hour late.  Do you think most employers might have a policy about that?   And suppose you are in a meeting and someone comes in a hour after it starts, you don&#039;t feel there is any disruption then?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A student shows up a hour late.  They then tend to ask questions that were answered the first hour.  I saw it a million times when I was in college. In this case, the kid wasn&#8217;t even enrolled in the class, something the Professor had no way of knowing.  So it&#8217;s his policy that you do not come in late.  The other kids in class also pay tuition and I am not sure why they are expected to cater to the students who just can&#8217;t make it in on time.  While you say &#8220;If someone comes into work late, I can’t use that “disruption” as an excuse for losing the company money or whatever.&#8221;  you do not mention what happens to the person that comes into work a hour late.  Do you think most employers might have a policy about that?   And suppose you are in a meeting and someone comes in a hour after it starts, you don&#8217;t feel there is any disruption then?</p>
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