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	<title>Comments on: A Tale of Two Forensic Scandals: Ontario vs. Mississippi</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.theagitator.com/2009/12/09/a-tale-of-two-forensic-scandals-ontario-vs-mississippi/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2009/12/09/a-tale-of-two-forensic-scandals-ontario-vs-mississippi/</link>
	<description>It rankles me when somebody tries to tell somebody what to do.</description>
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		<title>By: pam</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2009/12/09/a-tale-of-two-forensic-scandals-ontario-vs-mississippi/comment-page-1/#comment-377935</link>
		<dc:creator>pam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Dec 2009 23:37:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=15428#comment-377935</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The 15 year old boy I&#039;m supporting just lost his bid for a new trial after 11 months waiting on District Judge Gardner who found a narrow way around Hayne being the only expert at the 2 day trial who got the conviction and life sentence for the boy:

He said that in the &quot;Edmonds v. State case Dr. Hayne didn&#039;t testify that he could tell from looking at a body that there had been two people holding the gun...&quot; as was asserted in this boy&#039;s PCR motion and brief. &quot;Dr. Hayne never testified to any such thing. He answered an improper question posed by the prosecutor to the effect that the circumstances at the time of the shooting as described in Edmond&#039;s statement and other physical findings known to Hayne were consistent&quot; and then he went on to say that the Supreme Court went on to observe, &quot;Dr. Hayne is qualified to offer expert opinions in forensic pathology&quot;.

Thanks MS Supreme Court.

Also, quoted from the opinion: &quot;Finally, as to Dr. Hayne&#039;s testimony, this Court has no basis to consider that the testimony of Dr. Hayne &quot;casts a coubt over the entire proceedings&quot; as asserted by the Petitioner. It is the opinion of this Court that anyone with medical training of any degree could form a valid opinion as to the cause of death where the victim&#039;s body had been punctured by a knife or knives some 20 times.&quot; (there were a total of 7 wounds, 6 less than 1/8th inch deep and one fatal in a claim of self defense by the 8th grader against his much bigger attacker who was suffering from mental degeneration of which Dr. Hayne never sampled or tested brain tissue in his autopsy).
The judge couldn&#039;t even get the main facts of the case right in his opinion.

Thanks State of Mississippi.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The 15 year old boy I&#8217;m supporting just lost his bid for a new trial after 11 months waiting on District Judge Gardner who found a narrow way around Hayne being the only expert at the 2 day trial who got the conviction and life sentence for the boy:</p>
<p>He said that in the &#8220;Edmonds v. State case Dr. Hayne didn&#8217;t testify that he could tell from looking at a body that there had been two people holding the gun&#8230;&#8221; as was asserted in this boy&#8217;s PCR motion and brief. &#8220;Dr. Hayne never testified to any such thing. He answered an improper question posed by the prosecutor to the effect that the circumstances at the time of the shooting as described in Edmond&#8217;s statement and other physical findings known to Hayne were consistent&#8221; and then he went on to say that the Supreme Court went on to observe, &#8220;Dr. Hayne is qualified to offer expert opinions in forensic pathology&#8221;.</p>
<p>Thanks MS Supreme Court.</p>
<p>Also, quoted from the opinion: &#8220;Finally, as to Dr. Hayne&#8217;s testimony, this Court has no basis to consider that the testimony of Dr. Hayne &#8220;casts a coubt over the entire proceedings&#8221; as asserted by the Petitioner. It is the opinion of this Court that anyone with medical training of any degree could form a valid opinion as to the cause of death where the victim&#8217;s body had been punctured by a knife or knives some 20 times.&#8221; (there were a total of 7 wounds, 6 less than 1/8th inch deep and one fatal in a claim of self defense by the 8th grader against his much bigger attacker who was suffering from mental degeneration of which Dr. Hayne never sampled or tested brain tissue in his autopsy).<br />
The judge couldn&#8217;t even get the main facts of the case right in his opinion.</p>
<p>Thanks State of Mississippi.</p>
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		<title>By: jmc</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2009/12/09/a-tale-of-two-forensic-scandals-ontario-vs-mississippi/comment-page-1/#comment-377428</link>
		<dc:creator>jmc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Dec 2009 15:28:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=15428#comment-377428</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think Judy has nailed it.  

There&#039;s a hugely perverse incentive in keeping things &quot;settled&quot;.  For one, the more people you let out of prison, the more people you&#039;re going to have to pay off in a civil suit later.  More money paid out to &quot;criminals&quot; or even &quot;former criminals&quot; or if we&#039;re lucky, &quot;innocent people who got locked up&quot; means less votes.

Plus, there&#039;s also the fact that the prosecutor and judge have to admit they screwed up royally.  When you release someone after serving many years in prison because they were innocent, not only to have to say, &quot;we got the wrong guy&quot;, you have to admit that for however many years, someone didn&#039;t pay for the crime they committed -- and now, the trail has likely gone cold and the case will never be solved.  All because you couldn&#039;t be bothered to do the right thing the first time.  That certainly won&#039;t get votes.  Better to just say, &quot;we know we got our man here, even if that expert witness was a fraud.&quot; 

Don&#039;t forget, there are plenty of idiots out there who think that criminals &quot;get off&quot; too often and there are too many appeals for people who are &quot;obviously guilty&quot;.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think Judy has nailed it.  </p>
<p>There&#8217;s a hugely perverse incentive in keeping things &#8220;settled&#8221;.  For one, the more people you let out of prison, the more people you&#8217;re going to have to pay off in a civil suit later.  More money paid out to &#8220;criminals&#8221; or even &#8220;former criminals&#8221; or if we&#8217;re lucky, &#8220;innocent people who got locked up&#8221; means less votes.</p>
<p>Plus, there&#8217;s also the fact that the prosecutor and judge have to admit they screwed up royally.  When you release someone after serving many years in prison because they were innocent, not only to have to say, &#8220;we got the wrong guy&#8221;, you have to admit that for however many years, someone didn&#8217;t pay for the crime they committed &#8212; and now, the trail has likely gone cold and the case will never be solved.  All because you couldn&#8217;t be bothered to do the right thing the first time.  That certainly won&#8217;t get votes.  Better to just say, &#8220;we know we got our man here, even if that expert witness was a fraud.&#8221; </p>
<p>Don&#8217;t forget, there are plenty of idiots out there who think that criminals &#8220;get off&#8221; too often and there are too many appeals for people who are &#8220;obviously guilty&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Frank</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2009/12/09/a-tale-of-two-forensic-scandals-ontario-vs-mississippi/comment-page-1/#comment-377410</link>
		<dc:creator>Frank</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Dec 2009 12:58:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=15428#comment-377410</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[#11 And the lawyer in question is risking a contempt citation when he does.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#11 And the lawyer in question is risking a contempt citation when he does.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Andrew Williams</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2009/12/09/a-tale-of-two-forensic-scandals-ontario-vs-mississippi/comment-page-1/#comment-377398</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew Williams</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Dec 2009 07:34:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=15428#comment-377398</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[When Stephen Hayne goes to Boot Hill, he&#039;d better pray one of his few remaining friends does the autopsy....]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When Stephen Hayne goes to Boot Hill, he&#8217;d better pray one of his few remaining friends does the autopsy&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Aresen</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2009/12/09/a-tale-of-two-forensic-scandals-ontario-vs-mississippi/comment-page-1/#comment-377393</link>
		<dc:creator>Aresen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Dec 2009 05:16:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=15428#comment-377393</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote&gt;
&#124;  hexag1 &#124;  December 9th, 2009 at 10:45 pm 

“more reputable pathologists” ???
Don’t you mean actual pathologists ?
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I suppose you might refer to Charles Smith and Steven Haynes as &#039;sociopathologists&#039;.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>
|  hexag1 |  December 9th, 2009 at 10:45 pm </p>
<p>“more reputable pathologists” ???<br />
Don’t you mean actual pathologists ?
</p></blockquote>
<p>I suppose you might refer to Charles Smith and Steven Haynes as &#8216;sociopathologists&#8217;.</p>
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		<title>By: hexag1</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2009/12/09/a-tale-of-two-forensic-scandals-ontario-vs-mississippi/comment-page-1/#comment-377383</link>
		<dc:creator>hexag1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Dec 2009 02:45:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=15428#comment-377383</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;more reputable pathologists&quot; ???
Don&#039;t you mean actual pathologists ?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;more reputable pathologists&#8221; ???<br />
Don&#8217;t you mean actual pathologists ?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: BamBam</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2009/12/09/a-tale-of-two-forensic-scandals-ontario-vs-mississippi/comment-page-1/#comment-377378</link>
		<dc:creator>BamBam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Dec 2009 01:22:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=15428#comment-377378</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[And it&#039;s evil to be more concerned with money (stolen from others via taxes) to pay for the abhorrent behavior of your (The State&#039;s) thugs, than it is to be concerned about truth, justice, liberty, etc.

Private justice is the best way to handle these evil creatures.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And it&#8217;s evil to be more concerned with money (stolen from others via taxes) to pay for the abhorrent behavior of your (The State&#8217;s) thugs, than it is to be concerned about truth, justice, liberty, etc.</p>
<p>Private justice is the best way to handle these evil creatures.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Judi</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2009/12/09/a-tale-of-two-forensic-scandals-ontario-vs-mississippi/comment-page-1/#comment-377369</link>
		<dc:creator>Judi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Dec 2009 23:19:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=15428#comment-377369</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Nando, it&#039;s about money alright.  But consider this as well.  Once the state admits they erred in letting Hayne and/or West do these autopsies and that these men were unqualified then that in itself is going to rattle the purse strings in Mississippi.

They will HAVE to re-open the cases in which Hayne/West testimony was crucial to the conviction.  They also know there will be a lot of cases that will be overturned and exonerations.  AND the wrongfully convicted will sue the bejesus out of them.

So in essence, they are trying not to shoot themselves in the foot.

Well guess what! OOPS!! They already have.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nando, it&#8217;s about money alright.  But consider this as well.  Once the state admits they erred in letting Hayne and/or West do these autopsies and that these men were unqualified then that in itself is going to rattle the purse strings in Mississippi.</p>
<p>They will HAVE to re-open the cases in which Hayne/West testimony was crucial to the conviction.  They also know there will be a lot of cases that will be overturned and exonerations.  AND the wrongfully convicted will sue the bejesus out of them.</p>
<p>So in essence, they are trying not to shoot themselves in the foot.</p>
<p>Well guess what! OOPS!! They already have.</p>
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		<title>By: Nando</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2009/12/09/a-tale-of-two-forensic-scandals-ontario-vs-mississippi/comment-page-1/#comment-377364</link>
		<dc:creator>Nando</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Dec 2009 22:48:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=15428#comment-377364</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Here&#039;s a question, can&#039;t a defense atty just bring up his history and bring his credibility into question?  Every time the state uses Hayne they would put themselves at risk of having his &quot;expertise&quot; questioned, no?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s a question, can&#8217;t a defense atty just bring up his history and bring his credibility into question?  Every time the state uses Hayne they would put themselves at risk of having his &#8220;expertise&#8221; questioned, no?</p>
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		<title>By: Judi</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2009/12/09/a-tale-of-two-forensic-scandals-ontario-vs-mississippi/comment-page-1/#comment-377361</link>
		<dc:creator>Judi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Dec 2009 22:17:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=15428#comment-377361</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Oops! EGREGIOUS]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oops! EGREGIOUS</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Judi</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2009/12/09/a-tale-of-two-forensic-scandals-ontario-vs-mississippi/comment-page-1/#comment-377359</link>
		<dc:creator>Judi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Dec 2009 21:58:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=15428#comment-377359</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[PLEASE sign my petition telling the state of Mississippi that these ergregious injustices by Hayne and West will NOT be tolerated and MUST be addressed:

http://www.gopetition.com/online/25939.html]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>PLEASE sign my petition telling the state of Mississippi that these ergregious injustices by Hayne and West will NOT be tolerated and MUST be addressed:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.gopetition.com/online/25939.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.gopetition.com/online/25939.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: BamBam</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2009/12/09/a-tale-of-two-forensic-scandals-ontario-vs-mississippi/comment-page-1/#comment-377357</link>
		<dc:creator>BamBam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Dec 2009 21:11:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=15428#comment-377357</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote&gt;I can’t fathom how someone can stand in court and use their power to needlessly wreck someone’s life.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

You can&#039;t understand it because it&#039;s called EVIL and you don&#039;t possess enough of it to understand it.

Always follow the money if you want an answer to your questions.  The end result may not be all about money -- sometimes it&#039;s about power and control, with money being incidental -- but money will almost ALWAYS lead you to the truth (or as close to it as you will ever get).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>I can’t fathom how someone can stand in court and use their power to needlessly wreck someone’s life.</p></blockquote>
<p>You can&#8217;t understand it because it&#8217;s called EVIL and you don&#8217;t possess enough of it to understand it.</p>
<p>Always follow the money if you want an answer to your questions.  The end result may not be all about money &#8212; sometimes it&#8217;s about power and control, with money being incidental &#8212; but money will almost ALWAYS lead you to the truth (or as close to it as you will ever get).</p>
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		<title>By: Tsu Dho Nihm</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2009/12/09/a-tale-of-two-forensic-scandals-ontario-vs-mississippi/comment-page-1/#comment-377351</link>
		<dc:creator>Tsu Dho Nihm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Dec 2009 20:21:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=15428#comment-377351</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote&gt;Government exists for the sole purpose of serving government, whether it’s Mississippi or Washington DC. Government is cancer.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Can I get that on a t-shirt and/or bumper sticker?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Government exists for the sole purpose of serving government, whether it’s Mississippi or Washington DC. Government is cancer.</p></blockquote>
<p>Can I get that on a t-shirt and/or bumper sticker?</p>
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		<title>By: Dave Krueger</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2009/12/09/a-tale-of-two-forensic-scandals-ontario-vs-mississippi/comment-page-1/#comment-377346</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Krueger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Dec 2009 19:53:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=15428#comment-377346</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think Mississippi&#039;s resistance to doing anything about Hayne is because their phobia of outside meddling completely trumps their any wish to fix their corrupt criminal justice system.  It&#039;s the &quot;You ain&#039;t gonna tell us how to run our state&quot; syndrome.

Sure, a lot of innocent people suffer, but it&#039;s not like the concept of collateral damage as a cost of civilization is unique to Mississippi.  Government exists for the sole purpose of serving government, whether it&#039;s Mississippi or Washington DC.  Government is cancer.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think Mississippi&#8217;s resistance to doing anything about Hayne is because their phobia of outside meddling completely trumps their any wish to fix their corrupt criminal justice system.  It&#8217;s the &#8220;You ain&#8217;t gonna tell us how to run our state&#8221; syndrome.</p>
<p>Sure, a lot of innocent people suffer, but it&#8217;s not like the concept of collateral damage as a cost of civilization is unique to Mississippi.  Government exists for the sole purpose of serving government, whether it&#8217;s Mississippi or Washington DC.  Government is cancer.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Foobs</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2009/12/09/a-tale-of-two-forensic-scandals-ontario-vs-mississippi/comment-page-1/#comment-377345</link>
		<dc:creator>Foobs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Dec 2009 19:45:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=15428#comment-377345</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Marty:

You assume that people consider facts and then reach conclusions.  Most people do not think that way at all; they decide what they believe and then either sift or create the facts to reach that conclusion.  Hayne knew that the answer, so he made sure his process was correct (that it reached the right answer).

People want to believe that the criminal justice system can be trusted.  It is very important that they be able to believe that the innocent are protected and the guilty punished, so they do believe it.  They&#039;ll fight tooth and nail against any attempt to demonstrate failures or inadequacies of the system.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Marty:</p>
<p>You assume that people consider facts and then reach conclusions.  Most people do not think that way at all; they decide what they believe and then either sift or create the facts to reach that conclusion.  Hayne knew that the answer, so he made sure his process was correct (that it reached the right answer).</p>
<p>People want to believe that the criminal justice system can be trusted.  It is very important that they be able to believe that the innocent are protected and the guilty punished, so they do believe it.  They&#8217;ll fight tooth and nail against any attempt to demonstrate failures or inadequacies of the system.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Salvo</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2009/12/09/a-tale-of-two-forensic-scandals-ontario-vs-mississippi/comment-page-1/#comment-377330</link>
		<dc:creator>Salvo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Dec 2009 18:19:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=15428#comment-377330</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[USA! USA! USA!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>USA! USA! USA!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Sky</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2009/12/09/a-tale-of-two-forensic-scandals-ontario-vs-mississippi/comment-page-1/#comment-377327</link>
		<dc:creator>Sky</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Dec 2009 18:09:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=15428#comment-377327</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[As of November 12, 2009 Dr. Hayne was still being paid by Lowndes County Mississippi. They are paying him to testify on autopsies he performed prior to Aug. 4, 2008 when he was removed from the state pathologist list so, he still has the ability to do allot of damage.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As of November 12, 2009 Dr. Hayne was still being paid by Lowndes County Mississippi. They are paying him to testify on autopsies he performed prior to Aug. 4, 2008 when he was removed from the state pathologist list so, he still has the ability to do allot of damage.</p>
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		<title>By: Marty</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2009/12/09/a-tale-of-two-forensic-scandals-ontario-vs-mississippi/comment-page-1/#comment-377326</link>
		<dc:creator>Marty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Dec 2009 18:07:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=15428#comment-377326</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I can understand how a person can be blinded by idealogy or propaganda, but I can&#039;t fathom how someone can stand in court and use their power to needlessly wreck someone&#039;s life.

a short prison sentence is not enough.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can understand how a person can be blinded by idealogy or propaganda, but I can&#8217;t fathom how someone can stand in court and use their power to needlessly wreck someone&#8217;s life.</p>
<p>a short prison sentence is not enough.</p>
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		<title>By: Nando</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2009/12/09/a-tale-of-two-forensic-scandals-ontario-vs-mississippi/comment-page-1/#comment-377324</link>
		<dc:creator>Nando</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Dec 2009 18:03:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=15428#comment-377324</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m guessing the reason that MS doesn&#039;t want to revisit the cases where fraudulent expert witness might&#039;ve been presented boils down to one thing: money.

States get money for prisoners, do they not?  Prisons have become a boom and a way for state and local governments to create recession-proof jobs.  Also, I think that some people falsely believe that the more prisoners there are, the better job the state is doing to &quot;protect&quot; them.

It&#039;s a sad reality, but I doubt any state will be gunning to release any falsely convicted people anytime soon.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m guessing the reason that MS doesn&#8217;t want to revisit the cases where fraudulent expert witness might&#8217;ve been presented boils down to one thing: money.</p>
<p>States get money for prisoners, do they not?  Prisons have become a boom and a way for state and local governments to create recession-proof jobs.  Also, I think that some people falsely believe that the more prisoners there are, the better job the state is doing to &#8220;protect&#8221; them.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s a sad reality, but I doubt any state will be gunning to release any falsely convicted people anytime soon.</p>
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