TheAgitator.com
Site Changes: New Comments Ap
Thursday, October 1st, 2009Starting on Saturday, I’ll be switching to a new comments system.
It’s called LivePodium and features some pretty cool interactive features. You’ll be able to IM and chat live with other commenters, vote up or down on my posts and other comments, and see real time accumulation of karma.
It’s quite a bit different than what I use now, and it’s still experimental. So I’m sure there will be bugs. I’m getting paid to use you all as guinea pigs. So give it a shot. The trial will last for four months, after which I’ll decide whether to adopt it permanently or go back to the old system.
I’ll put up a post each week where you can register complaints, suggestions, glitches, etc. It would also of course be helpful to note things you like about the system.
All we wanted was a preview button! :-)
All these changes!
I hope this is just an isolated incident.
:)
Matt beat me to it. Although it would be nice if we could edit our posts. Just throwing it out there. But even if the new system doesn’t have those two things, it still sounds pretty cool!
The comments app at FreeKeene.com has a nice edit function. After a comment is posted, an Edit button appears for 5 or 6 minutes.
Yeah, I like the idea of editing because, as we all know, mistakes are invisible until the comment is actually posted, after which errors seem to show up in larger bold font.
Next, I would appreciate an editor that points out when I’m about to post something really stupid.
Dave
I thought that was the whole reason for posting!
Haha! Yeah, now that you mention it, having a machine do what people already do so efficiently is redundant.
Yep, as mentioned above, if preview and edit are included, bring it on!
Nothing wrong with what you have now. if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.
And as long as we don’t have to “register” and remember any passwords or anything.
I already don’t like the fickle karma system, and now we have an improved even-more fickle system coming?
/facepalm
Phelps
You just need karmaists who don’t fickle.
I like the current system well enough, but it’s the “I’ll pay you to try this out” part that sold me.
More information about Rev. Jonathan Ayers. The woman who was with him before his death speaks out:
http://www.franklincountycitizen.com/articles/2009/10/01/news/news01.txt
According to her, it was 15-20 minutes after she got out of his car that he was shot, not immediately as the police have lied about.
Consulting my Rush Quotes for Any Occasion, it’s a little of the “big money goes around the world” huh?
Tune in next time when I advise on how to work Red Barchetta in it’s entirety into your wedding vows.
What we really need is an app that reads our comments back to us before we’re allowed to post.
Just as I’ve always suspected…. Radley Balko is just a shill for Big Comments App.
The lefties are going to have a field day with this once they find out.
“I’m getting paid to use you all as guinea pigs.”
Oink oink, my good man.
Rusy, European Vacation
C in CA
Shut up and keep your wheel spinning.
Uhoh, somebody doesn’t want to hear about innocent people being executed:
http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/10/01/texas.execution.probe/index.html
“but it’s the ‘I’ll pay you to try this out” part that sold me.’”
You’re not much a haggler Balko. You have to start the bidding high with something like, “Tell ya what. I’ll try this for free, but only on the condition that I write articles for your site, for free.”
About the picture. . . . nice shiner.
I am concerned that the new software will make it too easy to get rid of so-called trolls.
Heads up for Radley:
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2009/10/fbi-probe-of-burbank-police-focusing-on-excessive-force-involving-12-officers.html
That is, like, so Kali Yuga, man.
Those of not using RSS feeds (which could be as few as just me) appreciate the linear method of threading comments you now have. That is, I know for sure the next comment after #25 will be #26, and I can come back and easily pick up where I left off, without missing anything.
Too many sites have gone to a scheme where replies are placed directly below the comment to which they refer. This makes it extremely easy to miss the replies – without slogging through the entire lot of comments every time the page is read.
Please consider this a complaint-in-advance, heh.
By the way, you web site is currently far above average. It loads fast, doesn’t eat cpu time, and the formatting makes it really easy to follow.
PS – If editing was available, I’d have already fixed my typo in the above…
you = your
Okay, I gave their live demo a chance. This Flash shit didn’t work for me.
There isn’t even a fallback mode. Just a comments system that doesn’t display any comments.
No, I’m not going to try another computer. No, I’m not going to reinstall my OS. No, I’m not going to use a different browser or spend hours trying to get bloated plugins to work, just to drop a simple blog comment.
Websites can outsource to all the web2.0 services they like, for all I care, so long as they retain their basic usability.
Poor guinea pig. You killed it…
Re #26, I find threading pretty useful. Some web forums, such as those at dpreview.com, give you the option of a linear or “flat” view that you prefer, or a threaded view. Ideally the reader would get to decide on his own.
Re # 28, the Flash demo did seem to work for me, but yeah, Flash. Not an open format, doesn’t run well on all computers, it’s not even clear to me how it’s stored — if Radley will be locked in to using a database controlled by this one company. When I get home I’ll have to test it on my Linux machine (gulp).
Disturbingly I googled LivePodium and, besides the actual company that operates it, I didn’t see any relevant results.
Oh, geeze, it does use flash. Lame. Looks like you can’t copy/paste text from within the flash. In the demo, the first story says it has 8 comments, but none show.
By the way, MattH, if you want to know how it works, get Firefox with the FireBug extension and look at the Resources, you’ll see it pulling the data or trying to.
I don’t know, Radley. This thing works fine. I make web apps for a living, so consider this an expert opinion. Anybody who uses flash to solve problems that can be solved with plain html are automatically on my list of companies to avoid. That just doesn’t make sense.
Your comment system here isn’t perfect, but it works. You should consider what’s going to happen to your archives if you use this other platform for a month or two.
Additionally, the whole “we pay you to use it” isn’t a business model with any long-term viability. They’re not just offering that to Radley Balko to get some visibility, which is what I first thought. Do the math, you know what revenue ads bring in (very little). Now imagine they’re trying to run their company out of that and give you some. Simple math says you’re going to get less than you do now. And I know they try to serve more ads and thus more revenue, but twice a pittance is typically still a pittance.
If you were my client I would recommend against this.
FWIW.
This site brings in very little ad revenue, particularly in proportion to the traffic it gets. He’s paying me to test out his system, not to get visibility. I can promise you that for the four-month experimentation period I’ll be coming out well ahead. I believe his business model is to serve ads on the comment system only in exchange for letting people use the service. Whether that’s viable over the long term is of his concern, not mine. I’m not investing, I’m just lending him my readership to test out his system.
Also, the comments will be archived, and can be migrated to the old system if I decide not to keep the new format.
I’m Fred Zimmerman founder and developer of LivePodium.com. As a news and blog junky I developed LivePodium as feature rich application. One of the key features is that it pushes data back to the client in real time without refreshing the browser. It also has online presence of other users and the ability to IM or group chat. I don’t know if this multi-user experience has any real value to you the readers. That is the point of this test and for you to decide.
I appreciate all your suggestions and can add inline sequential ordering as well as editing. I just added auto login (remember me on this computer) per your request. As far as the anti-flash comment, technology is rarely important as long as it works. I choose flash as a rich client side platform and a rapid application dev environment. Doing all of these real time features in javascript/AJAX would be very difficult much less all the cross browser, cross OS issues with html/javascript. As long as you have a relatively recent flash plugin, this should work in any browser or OS, including Linux.
This is a beta product so expect a hiccup here or there. I will fix things ASAP.
Again, the key innovation is the multi-user experience. I ask you to keep an open mind and just give it a try.
Fred, thanks for jumping in here.
(the rest of you can ignore this, as it’s going to get real boring real fast)
I disagree with your choice of flash, and the reasons above aren’t convincing to me. If you simply use jquery, the cross-browser issues pretty much go away, at least for the browsers that 99% of people use (as good as flash penetration). It’s also *very* fast development, and the kind of stuff that you’re talking about can be done there with less work than flash. Deployment tends to be easier, too, as you don’t have the issues with the monolithic flash swf (the main issues here are with version control systems in my experience).
I use flash for music and movie players, and it works great for that. Using it for a comment system, though, just doesn’t make sense. It really looks to me like you’re simply sticking with what you’re comfortable with, but I’d recommend you think outside the box a little.
Looking at your site and comments, I do think your overall comment system ideas are good. I just don’t think your implementation is prime.
Again, FWIW. Free advice…
*squeak squeak*
Do I get preview?
*scurries to corner of cage*
As far as the anti-flash comment, technology is rarely important as long as it works.
No, this are wrong. Flash is, quite frankly, a resource hog. With more than a few security problems. Which is why I leave is off, unless A) I really want to see something, and B) am reasonably confident the risk of enabling it is low.
Doing all of these real time features in javascript/AJAX would be very difficult …
Just as doing them with Flash is equivalent to tossing out the baby with the bath water. I just tried your site, and even though I had Flash enabled, it does not work for me. That means nothing is displayed, at all.
On the other hand, I am happy to know Radley’s site will be better supported financially for testing it for you. And even though I don’t comment much here, I will not be able to, at all, once your software is in place…
Looks like you can’t copy/paste text from within the flash …
Correct. Some sites use it to specifically prevent this. But, regardless, it definitely puts a stop to it.
Seriously, Flash? For a bloody commenting system?
What a crock.
Oh well, at lest it’s not Silverlight.
Flash 9.0r124, Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.9.0.11) Gecko/2009061118 Fedora/3.0.11-1.fc9 Firefox/3.0.11
Does not work on this system.
Though, I have to say, being unable to read the comments has saved me an awful lot of time in the mornings.
Sorry if this comes off at all negative, Radley. I have no issues with what you’re doing, it’s your site. I feel a response is deserved since Fred chimed in here. Michael Chaney made some good points and I’d like to extend what he said.
I develop web applications for a living and I use a wide range of technology. I’m primarily a Micorosft developer and love Silverlight, though Flash is basically the same, since both can be used to create amazing web experiences. That being said, they shouldn’t be used for every web site or web application. In practice I use them judiciously, primarily developing sites using AJAX/HTML.
Technology choice does matter and developers should not choose a particular technology because it’s easy or the best for rapid development from their perspective. Everything should be driven by the scenario and the audience. Plenty of people have chimed in here already expressing their frustration with Flash. Whether their opinion forms the majority or not, it’s at least evidence technology choice matters.
Also, AJAX may seem daunting but it’s considerably easier now. I’m developing a major application in ASP.NET for my client and AJAX has no issues with Internet Explorer and Firefox. It just works. If you’re having issues with ASP.NET AJAX, then jQuery is an excellent option. It also makes AJAX easy and you should be able to find many examples of using jQuery’s AJAX without much searching.
This is my world and something I know exceptionally well. And this is actually my first comment on Radley’s site. If you do read this, Fred, I hope you take this in the spirit it’s offered – attempting to help you question your assumptions and improve your application. I’d love to see other web developers put good applications out there for users.
Thanks for reading