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	<title>Comments on: Fun Fact O&#8217; the Day</title>
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	<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2009/09/18/fun-fact-o-the-day/</link>
	<description>It rankles me when somebody tries to tell somebody what to do.</description>
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		<title>By: gorjus</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2009/09/18/fun-fact-o-the-day/comment-page-1/#comment-364397</link>
		<dc:creator>gorjus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Sep 2009 20:33:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=14568#comment-364397</guid>
		<description>Folks,

That Slate article is over a year old.  The Supreme Court recently clarified the issue in Yeager, finding that if you were previously acquitted on a crime, and it had overlapping elements with other charges, you couldn&#039;t be retried for those either.

http://www.scotuswiki.com/index.php?title=Yeager_v._United_States

As SCOTUSwiki puts it succinctly, &quot;In Yeager’s case, therefore, the Court held that the jury’s inability to reach a verdict on the insider trading counts in the indictment was simply a “nonevent,” entitled to no weight in the collateral estoppel analysis.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Folks,</p>
<p>That Slate article is over a year old.  The Supreme Court recently clarified the issue in Yeager, finding that if you were previously acquitted on a crime, and it had overlapping elements with other charges, you couldn&#8217;t be retried for those either.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.scotuswiki.com/index.php?title=Yeager_v._United_States" rel="nofollow">http://www.scotuswiki.com/index.php?title=Yeager_v._United_States</a></p>
<p>As SCOTUSwiki puts it succinctly, &#8220;In Yeager’s case, therefore, the Court held that the jury’s inability to reach a verdict on the insider trading counts in the indictment was simply a “nonevent,” entitled to no weight in the collateral estoppel analysis.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2009/09/18/fun-fact-o-the-day/comment-page-1/#comment-363987</link>
		<dc:creator>anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Sep 2009 01:00:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=14568#comment-363987</guid>
		<description>The following definitions are from &lt;i&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://books.google.com/books?id=sJQm214GM4UC&amp;printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&amp;q=&amp;f=false&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Esar&#039;s Comic Dictionary&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/i&gt;, which was published in 1943:

&lt;b&gt;conviction&lt;/b&gt;.  1. A belief that you hold or that holds you.  2. Many a man has the courage of his friends&#039; convictions.  3. Judges without conviction are the most generous in handing it out.

&lt;b&gt;judge&lt;/b&gt;.  1.  When a judge makes a mistake, it becomes the law of the land.  2.  Judges and criminals are the only persons who take the law into their own hands.  3.  Judges hand out sentences on the theory that it is more blessed to give than to receive.

&lt;b&gt;judgment&lt;/b&gt;.  What this country needs is not more judges, but more judgment.

&lt;b&gt;jury&lt;/b&gt;.  1.  Twelve men chosen to decide who has the better lawyer.  2.  A group of twelve people of average ignorance.  3.  The only thing that doesn&#039;t work right when it&#039;s fixed.  4.  A group of persons that should have the courage of its convictions.

&lt;b&gt;justice&lt;/b&gt;.  1.  Something that is too good for some people and not good enough for the rest.  2. It is well that justice is blind; she would not like most things done in her name if she could see.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The following definitions are from <i><a href="http://books.google.com/books?id=sJQm214GM4UC&amp;printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&amp;q=&amp;f=false" rel="nofollow">Esar&#8217;s Comic Dictionary</a></i>, which was published in 1943:</p>
<p><b>conviction</b>.  1. A belief that you hold or that holds you.  2. Many a man has the courage of his friends&#8217; convictions.  3. Judges without conviction are the most generous in handing it out.</p>
<p><b>judge</b>.  1.  When a judge makes a mistake, it becomes the law of the land.  2.  Judges and criminals are the only persons who take the law into their own hands.  3.  Judges hand out sentences on the theory that it is more blessed to give than to receive.</p>
<p><b>judgment</b>.  What this country needs is not more judges, but more judgment.</p>
<p><b>jury</b>.  1.  Twelve men chosen to decide who has the better lawyer.  2.  A group of twelve people of average ignorance.  3.  The only thing that doesn&#8217;t work right when it&#8217;s fixed.  4.  A group of persons that should have the courage of its convictions.</p>
<p><b>justice</b>.  1.  Something that is too good for some people and not good enough for the rest.  2. It is well that justice is blind; she would not like most things done in her name if she could see.</p>
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		<title>By: Bernard</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2009/09/18/fun-fact-o-the-day/comment-page-1/#comment-363257</link>
		<dc:creator>Bernard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Sep 2009 12:36:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=14568#comment-363257</guid>
		<description>I know that this could never happen in a real world run by lawyers, ex-lawyers and people who have too many lawyers, but given the impotence of logic and reason in forestalling their power grab the most effective way to make them think twice before convicting innocents would be to have a later finding in their favour automatically trigger a criminal investigation against the prosecutor.

There&#039;s a huge paper trail around any trial, so there would be more than enough hard evidence to go through. If it appears that the prosecutor acted in good faith they should be acquitted (though ideally still put away for 18 years under the weird ruling described above) but if they&#039;re found to have wilfully manipulated evidence to misguide the jury then they serve a custodial sentence.

Of course, if we used the current lawbook as a blueprint then the mere fact of being a prosecutor would be de facto proof of guilt, but that&#039;s a different story.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I know that this could never happen in a real world run by lawyers, ex-lawyers and people who have too many lawyers, but given the impotence of logic and reason in forestalling their power grab the most effective way to make them think twice before convicting innocents would be to have a later finding in their favour automatically trigger a criminal investigation against the prosecutor.</p>
<p>There&#8217;s a huge paper trail around any trial, so there would be more than enough hard evidence to go through. If it appears that the prosecutor acted in good faith they should be acquitted (though ideally still put away for 18 years under the weird ruling described above) but if they&#8217;re found to have wilfully manipulated evidence to misguide the jury then they serve a custodial sentence.</p>
<p>Of course, if we used the current lawbook as a blueprint then the mere fact of being a prosecutor would be de facto proof of guilt, but that&#8217;s a different story.</p>
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		<title>By: I didn&#8217;t think this was legal &#171; Quotulatiousness</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2009/09/18/fun-fact-o-the-day/comment-page-1/#comment-363065</link>
		<dc:creator>I didn&#8217;t think this was legal &#171; Quotulatiousness</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Sep 2009 22:53:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=14568#comment-363065</guid>
		<description>[...] from The Agitator, a little bit of legal trivia . . . even if the jury finds you not guilty, the judge can still [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] from The Agitator, a little bit of legal trivia . . . even if the jury finds you not guilty, the judge can still [...]</p>
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		<title>By: perlhaqr</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2009/09/18/fun-fact-o-the-day/comment-page-1/#comment-363017</link>
		<dc:creator>perlhaqr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Sep 2009 20:03:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=14568#comment-363017</guid>
		<description>J: The proper answer is to get on the jury, and flat out refuse to convict.

&quot;I don&#039;t care what the law says.  That&#039;s not a crime.  Not guilty, and we can stay here until Hell freezes over or Lawyers and Judges deserve Heaven.  Though that second one might take a while.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>J: The proper answer is to get on the jury, and flat out refuse to convict.</p>
<p>&#8220;I don&#8217;t care what the law says.  That&#8217;s not a crime.  Not guilty, and we can stay here until Hell freezes over or Lawyers and Judges deserve Heaven.  Though that second one might take a while.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2009/09/18/fun-fact-o-the-day/comment-page-1/#comment-363010</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Sep 2009 19:39:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=14568#comment-363010</guid>
		<description>I think this puts the lie to Blackstone&#039;s old &quot;better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer&quot; bit.  The truth is that people have been chipping away at that concept for years, because they hate the idea of a guilty party getting away with something.  The laws have been slowly changed to be &quot;if not guilty of what you&#039;re accused of, at least guilty of something&quot;, all in the name of getting to people who&#039;ve committed difficult to prove crimes.   Being able to sentence people for crimes they&#039;ve not been proven guilty of is just the icing on the cake.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think this puts the lie to Blackstone&#8217;s old &#8220;better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer&#8221; bit.  The truth is that people have been chipping away at that concept for years, because they hate the idea of a guilty party getting away with something.  The laws have been slowly changed to be &#8220;if not guilty of what you&#8217;re accused of, at least guilty of something&#8221;, all in the name of getting to people who&#8217;ve committed difficult to prove crimes.   Being able to sentence people for crimes they&#8217;ve not been proven guilty of is just the icing on the cake.</p>
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		<title>By: colson</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2009/09/18/fun-fact-o-the-day/comment-page-1/#comment-363003</link>
		<dc:creator>colson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Sep 2009 19:22:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=14568#comment-363003</guid>
		<description>I guess it comes back to a question I have a hard time grappling with as a libertarian:

Is holding hope for significant legal reform any different than holding hope that government may reform itself? Is this really any different than going to the voting booth where your vote is likely to not really have any meaningful effect? Are we not subscribing to the &quot;Myth of the Rational Legal System.&quot; (sorry Mr. Kaplan.)

The crux of government, and law to a degree, is it truly benefits only those who willingly participate while the burden of the costs are carried by those who do not receive any material benefit even if they are the supposed beneficiary. Laws that stray beyond the scope of person and property are nothing but the idle desires of one man imposing his ethics on another by a force we are dutifully bound to with nothing more than an irrational hope that one day we might find a social contract that respects individualism.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I guess it comes back to a question I have a hard time grappling with as a libertarian:</p>
<p>Is holding hope for significant legal reform any different than holding hope that government may reform itself? Is this really any different than going to the voting booth where your vote is likely to not really have any meaningful effect? Are we not subscribing to the &#8220;Myth of the Rational Legal System.&#8221; (sorry Mr. Kaplan.)</p>
<p>The crux of government, and law to a degree, is it truly benefits only those who willingly participate while the burden of the costs are carried by those who do not receive any material benefit even if they are the supposed beneficiary. Laws that stray beyond the scope of person and property are nothing but the idle desires of one man imposing his ethics on another by a force we are dutifully bound to with nothing more than an irrational hope that one day we might find a social contract that respects individualism.</p>
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		<title>By: Cynical In CA</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2009/09/18/fun-fact-o-the-day/comment-page-1/#comment-363002</link>
		<dc:creator>Cynical In CA</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Sep 2009 19:20:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=14568#comment-363002</guid>
		<description>It used to be said, &quot;Better to be judged by twelve than carried by six.&quot;

Not so sure anymore.  Perlhaqr wins the thread.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It used to be said, &#8220;Better to be judged by twelve than carried by six.&#8221;</p>
<p>Not so sure anymore.  Perlhaqr wins the thread.</p>
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		<title>By: Waste</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2009/09/18/fun-fact-o-the-day/comment-page-1/#comment-362996</link>
		<dc:creator>Waste</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Sep 2009 18:51:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=14568#comment-362996</guid>
		<description>#12

 My bet is that the charge was money laundering. Not taking money across state lines. Otherwise internet purchases wouldn&#039;t be legal in most cases. There is a law that if you take more than a certain amount of cash out of the country you have to declare it. So it could be something in regards to that too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#12</p>
<p> My bet is that the charge was money laundering. Not taking money across state lines. Otherwise internet purchases wouldn&#8217;t be legal in most cases. There is a law that if you take more than a certain amount of cash out of the country you have to declare it. So it could be something in regards to that too.</p>
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		<title>By: Yizmo Gizmo</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2009/09/18/fun-fact-o-the-day/comment-page-1/#comment-362995</link>
		<dc:creator>Yizmo Gizmo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Sep 2009 18:43:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=14568#comment-362995</guid>
		<description>America  has  shown it can tilt the playing  field (see drug laws or DUI) irrevocably in the favor of the Prosecution.
But I wonder, to what end? More convitions? More prisoners? 
We already  have a massive incarceration problem. So who benefits here?
Prosecutors? Defense lawyers who are more needed? In the end the taxpayers pay for the 
prisoners. Lights, food, recreation, meds. So despite the appearance of law and order isn&#039;t this trend akin to a snake swallowing its own tail?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>America  has  shown it can tilt the playing  field (see drug laws or DUI) irrevocably in the favor of the Prosecution.<br />
But I wonder, to what end? More convitions? More prisoners?<br />
We already  have a massive incarceration problem. So who benefits here?<br />
Prosecutors? Defense lawyers who are more needed? In the end the taxpayers pay for the<br />
prisoners. Lights, food, recreation, meds. So despite the appearance of law and order isn&#8217;t this trend akin to a snake swallowing its own tail?</p>
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		<title>By: hamburglar007</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2009/09/18/fun-fact-o-the-day/comment-page-1/#comment-362993</link>
		<dc:creator>hamburglar007</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Sep 2009 18:39:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=14568#comment-362993</guid>
		<description>#30 is right.  I have no problem with separating civil and criminal courts.  I do have a big problem with double jeopardy not applying at all levels.  I think it is contrary to what the framers put in the constitution, and if the people feels that strongly about it there is a well laid out process for changing the constitution.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#30 is right.  I have no problem with separating civil and criminal courts.  I do have a big problem with double jeopardy not applying at all levels.  I think it is contrary to what the framers put in the constitution, and if the people feels that strongly about it there is a well laid out process for changing the constitution.</p>
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		<title>By: wunder</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2009/09/18/fun-fact-o-the-day/comment-page-1/#comment-362988</link>
		<dc:creator>wunder</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Sep 2009 18:21:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=14568#comment-362988</guid>
		<description>#12
Yeah, I can&#039;t remember exactly what the law was - it&#039;s been a couple years.  But what I can&#039;t forget is the look of shock and disappointment on the prosecutors&#039; faces when we found him not guilty of all but the one charge.  I relish that memory.

#22
I actually don&#039;t try to avoid jury duty because I like to think of myself as one of the few reasonable voices unwilling to be spoonfed the prosecution&#039;s theories and charges.  At the beginning of deliberation, there were only two or three of us who thought the drug charge was BS, and we brought everyone else around in just a couple hours.  I know it&#039;s a small victory and probably meaningless in the big picture, but it felt good.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#12<br />
Yeah, I can&#8217;t remember exactly what the law was &#8211; it&#8217;s been a couple years.  But what I can&#8217;t forget is the look of shock and disappointment on the prosecutors&#8217; faces when we found him not guilty of all but the one charge.  I relish that memory.</p>
<p>#22<br />
I actually don&#8217;t try to avoid jury duty because I like to think of myself as one of the few reasonable voices unwilling to be spoonfed the prosecution&#8217;s theories and charges.  At the beginning of deliberation, there were only two or three of us who thought the drug charge was BS, and we brought everyone else around in just a couple hours.  I know it&#8217;s a small victory and probably meaningless in the big picture, but it felt good.</p>
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		<title>By: jwk</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2009/09/18/fun-fact-o-the-day/comment-page-1/#comment-362987</link>
		<dc:creator>jwk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Sep 2009 18:20:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=14568#comment-362987</guid>
		<description>You can be tried for the same crime in state and federal courts and double jeopardy does not apply.  You can also be tried for the same crime in criminal and civil courts because of the difference of burdon of proof.  (Hence, OJ being acquited in criminal court and &#039;convicted&#039; in civil court).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You can be tried for the same crime in state and federal courts and double jeopardy does not apply.  You can also be tried for the same crime in criminal and civil courts because of the difference of burdon of proof.  (Hence, OJ being acquited in criminal court and &#8216;convicted&#8217; in civil court).</p>
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		<title>By: Tampa Bum</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2009/09/18/fun-fact-o-the-day/comment-page-1/#comment-362984</link>
		<dc:creator>Tampa Bum</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Sep 2009 18:14:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=14568#comment-362984</guid>
		<description>More reading: http://www.abajournal.com/magazine/acquitting_time/

I have not followed up on the case at the end of the article yet. Should be interesting to see where the 6th came down.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>More reading: <a href="http://www.abajournal.com/magazine/acquitting_time/" rel="nofollow">http://www.abajournal.com/magazine/acquitting_time/</a></p>
<p>I have not followed up on the case at the end of the article yet. Should be interesting to see where the 6th came down.</p>
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		<title>By: scott</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2009/09/18/fun-fact-o-the-day/comment-page-1/#comment-362982</link>
		<dc:creator>scott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Sep 2009 18:11:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=14568#comment-362982</guid>
		<description>It needs to be said over and over until it becomes conventional wisdom... Ours is not a justice system.  It&#039;s just a legal system.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It needs to be said over and over until it becomes conventional wisdom&#8230; Ours is not a justice system.  It&#8217;s just a legal system.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt D</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2009/09/18/fun-fact-o-the-day/comment-page-1/#comment-362973</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt D</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Sep 2009 17:42:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=14568#comment-362973</guid>
		<description>Anyway, my point isn&#039;t to defend the practice, but to note that the fact of an acquittal isn&#039;t necessarily meaningful when you&#039;re talking about a decision that&#039;s already left to personal discretion rather than legal guidelines.

&lt;i&gt;This is a direct contradiction to a relatively recent Supreme Court decision which stated that federal mandatory minimum sentencing guidelines are voluntary, on the basis that they obligated the judge to consider facts not found by a jury. The sentencing guidelines violated the defendant’s Constitutional right to a jury trial, which these cases seem to do as well.&lt;/i&gt;

I&#039;m honestly not sure what to make of that decision. That the guidelines are voluntary would seem to indicate that judges are still free to follow them, after all. IOW, they still have discretion re. sentencing and can still hand out rather absurd sentences if they want--they just aren&#039;t any longer required to do so.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anyway, my point isn&#8217;t to defend the practice, but to note that the fact of an acquittal isn&#8217;t necessarily meaningful when you&#8217;re talking about a decision that&#8217;s already left to personal discretion rather than legal guidelines.</p>
<p><i>This is a direct contradiction to a relatively recent Supreme Court decision which stated that federal mandatory minimum sentencing guidelines are voluntary, on the basis that they obligated the judge to consider facts not found by a jury. The sentencing guidelines violated the defendant’s Constitutional right to a jury trial, which these cases seem to do as well.</i></p>
<p>I&#8217;m honestly not sure what to make of that decision. That the guidelines are voluntary would seem to indicate that judges are still free to follow them, after all. IOW, they still have discretion re. sentencing and can still hand out rather absurd sentences if they want&#8211;they just aren&#8217;t any longer required to do so.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt D</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2009/09/18/fun-fact-o-the-day/comment-page-1/#comment-362967</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt D</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Sep 2009 17:32:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=14568#comment-362967</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Matt D–I agree with your point that a judge should be free to sentence within a specified range, and use discretion based on the factors you mentioned. But it’s a completely different ball game when someone is sentenced for a crime for which they were never convicted.&lt;/i&gt;

I&#039;m not sure it&#039;s so different. A judge may give you a longer sentence because they find you personally offensive. You were never convicted of that, but there it is.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Matt D–I agree with your point that a judge should be free to sentence within a specified range, and use discretion based on the factors you mentioned. But it’s a completely different ball game when someone is sentenced for a crime for which they were never convicted.</i></p>
<p>I&#8217;m not sure it&#8217;s so different. A judge may give you a longer sentence because they find you personally offensive. You were never convicted of that, but there it is.</p>
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		<title>By: Pablo</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2009/09/18/fun-fact-o-the-day/comment-page-1/#comment-362956</link>
		<dc:creator>Pablo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Sep 2009 17:14:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=14568#comment-362956</guid>
		<description>Matt D--I agree with your point that a judge should be free to sentence within a specified range, and use discretion based on the factors you mentioned.  But it&#039;s a completely different ball game when someone is sentenced for a crime for which they were never convicted.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Matt D&#8211;I agree with your point that a judge should be free to sentence within a specified range, and use discretion based on the factors you mentioned.  But it&#8217;s a completely different ball game when someone is sentenced for a crime for which they were never convicted.</p>
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		<title>By: Wesley</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2009/09/18/fun-fact-o-the-day/comment-page-1/#comment-362946</link>
		<dc:creator>Wesley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Sep 2009 17:03:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=14568#comment-362946</guid>
		<description>@Matt D:

Sure, judges can consider a lot of things, which justifies giving them a range for each type of conviction. But in the aforementioned case, the judge went well beyond the typical range for powder cocaine convictions and into the range of crack cocaine (which is ridiculously several times higher) solely due to facts not found by a jury - on a fact that the jury not only didn&#039;t find, but acquitted the defendant on. 

This is a direct contradiction to a relatively recent Supreme Court decision which stated that federal mandatory minimum sentencing guidelines are voluntary, on the basis that they obligated the judge to consider facts not found by a jury. The sentencing guidelines violated the defendant&#039;s Constitutional right to a jury trial, which these cases seem to do as well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Matt D:</p>
<p>Sure, judges can consider a lot of things, which justifies giving them a range for each type of conviction. But in the aforementioned case, the judge went well beyond the typical range for powder cocaine convictions and into the range of crack cocaine (which is ridiculously several times higher) solely due to facts not found by a jury &#8211; on a fact that the jury not only didn&#8217;t find, but acquitted the defendant on. </p>
<p>This is a direct contradiction to a relatively recent Supreme Court decision which stated that federal mandatory minimum sentencing guidelines are voluntary, on the basis that they obligated the judge to consider facts not found by a jury. The sentencing guidelines violated the defendant&#8217;s Constitutional right to a jury trial, which these cases seem to do as well.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt D</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2009/09/18/fun-fact-o-the-day/comment-page-1/#comment-362933</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt D</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Sep 2009 16:38:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=14568#comment-362933</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not sure I&#039;d chalk it up to absence of common sense. I assume, for instance, that judges regularly consider all manner of extralegal factors when determining sentencing. So if they&#039;re free to give you a short sentence because you seem like a decent person who just fucked up once, it&#039;s not completely unreasonable that they might also be free to give you a longer sentence because you seem like a criminal who just narrowly evaded conviction for a host of other crimes. I don&#039;t think I&#039;d agree with that decision in most cases, but I do think that when you&#039;re dealing with a decision which already occurs far outside of the recognizable legal framework, it&#039;s not particularly meaningful to say &quot;but the jury acquitted!&quot; I mean, the jury didn&#039;t render a verdict at all on the question of whether you&#039;re affable or contrite or an important member of the community or speak proper english or dress professionally or have 3 kids you need to take care of or swear it won&#039;t happen again, but it&#039;s conceivable that the judge would be influenced by any or all of those when determining the sentence.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not sure I&#8217;d chalk it up to absence of common sense. I assume, for instance, that judges regularly consider all manner of extralegal factors when determining sentencing. So if they&#8217;re free to give you a short sentence because you seem like a decent person who just fucked up once, it&#8217;s not completely unreasonable that they might also be free to give you a longer sentence because you seem like a criminal who just narrowly evaded conviction for a host of other crimes. I don&#8217;t think I&#8217;d agree with that decision in most cases, but I do think that when you&#8217;re dealing with a decision which already occurs far outside of the recognizable legal framework, it&#8217;s not particularly meaningful to say &#8220;but the jury acquitted!&#8221; I mean, the jury didn&#8217;t render a verdict at all on the question of whether you&#8217;re affable or contrite or an important member of the community or speak proper english or dress professionally or have 3 kids you need to take care of or swear it won&#8217;t happen again, but it&#8217;s conceivable that the judge would be influenced by any or all of those when determining the sentence.</p>
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