TheAgitator.com
On Shutting Up and Doing As You’re Told
Tuesday, August 4th, 2009Terrible story from Wisconsin:
Two Wisconsin National Guardsmen filed a federal civil rights lawsuit against the city of Wisconsin Dells, its police chief and three officers because they were forced to lap up what was believed to be human urine from the ground last summer.
The guardsmen, both of whom have served two tours of duty in Iraq, were in the Dells for weekend training and were stopped by police officers Wayne W. Thomas and Collin H. Jacobson early the morning of June 1 and accused of having urinated in public, according to a lawsuit filed Monday in U.S. District Court in Madison.
The officers pointed out a wet spot in an alley that they thought was urine, the lawsuit states, but the guardsmen, Sgt. Anthony R. Anderson, of West Bend, and Specialist Robert C. Schiman, of Kaukauna, denied having relieved themselves in the alley.
In order to prove that it was not their urine and avoid a citation, Thomas and Jacobson made Anderson and Schiman lick the ground and scrape mud up with their hands and lick it, according to the lawsuit.
Schiman also was made to eat a plant that was drenched in the liquid, the lawsuit states.
A third officer, Scott Albrecht, arrived at the scene and was told by Jacobson, “I can’t stop laughing. Wayne just made those two guys lick their own piss off the ground,” according to the lawsuit.
This is only one half of a lawsuit. so all the usual caveats apply. Via Scott Greenfield.
According to Jack Dunphy, if you refuse to do as a police officer directs and aggressively assert your right not to drink pee, you should get shot.
when exactly is a request by a LEO not a “lawful” order?
I’ll believe this country cares about freedom when they bring the troops home and turn them on the police.
Ah, let me guess… the “major” punishment was getting fired. Of course, charges are NEVER sought against the children, er, men in blue..
Well, there’s one watch commander whose career has dead ended. He violated one of the cardinal rules. He believed the soldiers over the cops without video evidence. He’ll probably disappear soon.
Greg “when exactly is a request by a LEO not a “lawful” order?”
That’s the heart of the problem. We are not under the rule of law anymore we are under rule of agents of the government with badges.
Great article about that here:
http://original.antiwar.com/vlahos/2009/07/27/today-henry-gates-tomorrow-you/
Yep, just keep fucking up royally, LEOs, and soon enough there’ll be enough case law to really mount legal challenges to their bullshit.
The Jack Dunphys of the world are digging their own graves…
Appropriate justice would be to send the cops to Iraq in place of the National Guardsmen.
WTF is that town doing giving 19 and 20 yr olds guns and badges?
When you wear a cop’s uniform, carry a gun, and use your authority as a cop to make someone to lick pee up off the ground, it has to constitute a crime. These guys should be facing charges.
I wouldn’t be surprised if a few of these guys’ buddies paid these cops a visit.
WTF is that town doing giving 19 and 20 yr olds guns and badges?
Seconded. If twenty is too young to able to responsibly enjoy a beer, it’s certainly too young to have that level of authority.
Umm, if someone orders me to put urine in my mouth, I’ll take the citation.
If they have a gun to my head, I’ll decide on the spot if I’ve lived long enough or if I’m ready to check out.
Y’all know how I feel about our loyal, trustworthy friends in blue (choke, choke, gasp, sputter), but seriously, these guys did have a choice not to do as they were told. Are they automata?
What does it say about a person who would put urine in his mouth on command? What else will such a person do on command? Are they even worthy of personhood status at that point?
One also wonders why these guardsmen followed any orders whatsoever from Wisconsin Dells cops. I’m not even talking about some bullshit macho Rambo fantasy either. I’d have been inclined to just say “it wasn’t me, you can’t prove it was, and I’ll see you on the court date” then never show up. I find it difficult to believe anyone would go through the expense of extradition on a fucking ticket.
Cynical: because the cops can give a citation, and then shove a tazer up your ass just for kicks, and then have you arrested for damaging city property. Some cops are all about destroying a person’s personhood. Lets see how tough they are clearing IEDs
William “One also wonders why these guardsmen followed any orders whatsoever from Wisconsin Dells cops. I’m not even talking about some bullshit macho Rambo fantasy either. I’d have been inclined to just say “it wasn’t me, you can’t prove it was, and I’ll see you on the court date” then never show up. I find it difficult to believe anyone would go through the expense of extradition on a fucking ticket.”
Good point but they’re just kids and used to unquestioningly following orders.
A bunch of tough-guy wannabes (if they want to be such bad-asses, why not join the Army or Marines?) giving blooded Iraq Vets a hard time? And the tough-guy wannabes are still breathing? Amazing. How fortunate for the police in question that we live in such a country as this, where the citizenry are so compliant…for now.
But enough of this ‘new professionalism’ and those tough-guy wannabes will be facing the real deal. And when it happens, there’ll be dismayed looks all-around the chronic ‘law ‘n’ ordah!’ set. And if the economy gets any worse, that will happen with a lot more regularity.
Abuse under color of authority should be a capital offense.
Cynic: “What does it say about a person who would put urine in his mouth on command? What else will such a person do on command? Are they even worthy of personhood status at that point?”
I’m sure I’ll catch hell for not supporting the troops or some such bullshit, but lets keep in mind that these guys were Guardsman who had spent time in Iraq. The whole point of boot camp is to condition people to do what they’re told by someone in a uniform with more shit on the shoulders than them without asking questions or thinking too much. This is the end result of that, just as the jingoism of the 1950s were the end result of putting a whole generation of men through the same process.
After being ordered to work out until you vomit, then being ordered to be a part of an occupation force in a country that doesn’t want you there and never posed a threat to anyone you’ve ever met, do you really think lapping up someone else’s waste was a foreign concept for these guys? It seems to me they already made some cash and palmed a whole range of government benefits for just that kind of behavior.
Oh, and I cannot help but wonder if said tough-guy wannabes ever watched the first Rambo movie? You know, where some hick ‘law-man’ ran into an accomplished killer and gave him trouble for no good reason? They might want to brush up on their survival skills…
If true, those police officers (heroes) deserve to be reprimanded with suspensions with pay for up to two weeks.
nemo “Oh, and I cannot help but wonder if said tough-guy wannabes ever watched the first Rambo movie? You know, where some hick ‘law-man’ ran into an accomplished killer and gave him trouble for no good reason? They might want to brush up on their survival skills…”
Rambo is just a fantasy. Even the mightiest military in the history of the world cowers before local police in Amerika. Must be intoxicating for cops to know this.
Guys, there’s nothing in the article that says the tough-guy cops weren’t former military. A lot of them are…because of the obvious reasons.
#21: I think that its relevant that the police have guns, tazers and handcuffs, and the ability to lie and get away with it vs. unarmed men. If it was police vs guardsmen with M4 carbine and body armor, it might have been a different story.
#14 | SJE — “Cynical: because the cops can give a citation, and then shove a tazer up your ass just for kicks, and then have you arrested for damaging city property.”
So what? The cops can do that anyway, with or without cause! That doesn’t mean complying with a cop’s order will get you off the hook. What’s wrong with people these days that they won’t stand up for themselves?
#17 | Chris K. –”Abuse under color of authority should be a capital offense.”
See Jim Bell.
Reading assignments for Cynical:
*** “Ayn Rand: The Russian Radical”, 1995, by Chris Matthew Sciabarra. Please attend chapter 11: “Relations Of Power”.
*** “Eichmann In Jerusalem: A Report On The Banality Of Evil”, 1963, by Hannah Arendt.
The subject here is what Rand called “the sanction of the victim”.
SJE — “Some cops are all about destroying a person’s personhood. Lets see how tough they are clearing IEDs.”
From Solzhenitsyn: “Until they were arrested and imprisoned in the Lubyanka, they hadn’t the slightest idea what a real prison was nor what the jaws of unjust interrogation were like. (There is no basis for assuming that if Trotsky had fallen into those jaws, he would have conducted himself with any less self-abasement, or that his resistence would have proved stronger than theirs. He had no occasion to prove it. He, too, had known only easy imprisonment, no serious interrogations, and a mere two years of exile in Ust-Kut. The terror Trotsky inspired as Chairman of the Revolutionary Military Council was something he acquired very cheaply, and does not at all demonstrate any true strength or courage. Those who have condemned many others to be shot often wilt at the prospect of their own death. The two kinds of toughness are not connected.)”
(“The Gulag Archipelago”, Volume One, Part I (“The Prison Industry”), chapter 10 (“The Law Matures”), p. 410)
When the monster Yezhov’s time came in Varsonofyevsky Lane, he had to be dragged by both hands down the sloping floor, weeping like a little girl. This is what I would expect from your average cop, now, even if they weren’t in line for nine grams.
#18 | William — “The whole point of boot camp is to condition people to do what they’re told by someone in a uniform …”
Point well taken, and very alien to me as I never had the pleasure of boot camp, and never will, nor will my children if I have any say in the matter.
If that’s the kind of person that boot camp generates, it is proof of the depravity of the system.
Thanks Billy, it’s been a boring summer in the book department. My experiences with Rand include The Fountainhead, Atlas Shrugged and Anthem. I’m about Holocausted out, but I haven’t read Arendt and probably should do so. It might make me even more cynical.
What fluffy said. ;)
It’s two bad the Guardsmen didn’t beat the snot out of these cops and then use PTSD as their defense, not a jury in this land would have sent them away.
#30 It’s too bad they don’t have friends in special ops that could “disappear” these clowns.
@ #30
Have you ever seen voir dire? Any jury actually seated would be specifically selected for the stupidity to do exactly that.
hopefully, the guardsmen were abusive pricks over in iraq and this is some cosmic karma coming back on them and the power freaks are splintering into factions and fighting each other and will leave us alone.
probably not.
ktc2
good point, but a boy can dream, can’t he?
marty,
well, i certainly don’t want to be the collarteral damage in the war between former High school football players.
#19 | nemo | August 4th, 2009 at 1:48 pm
Oh, and I cannot help but wonder if said tough-guy wannabes ever watched the first Rambo movie? You know, where some hick ‘law-man’ ran into an accomplished killer and gave him trouble for no good reason? They might want to brush up on their survival skills…
And if they go after them with that many men, they better not forget one thing: a good supply of body bags.
the book was so much better and so much more violent than the movie- the movie’s almost tame. maybe I’ll send my copy to the guardsmen…
I just got home to Montana from a long road trip including a leg to/from Chicago passing right by Wisconsin Dells. I guess I can just throw out the tourism magazine I picked up as I won’t be visiting that town when I go back for a tour of Wisconsin.
#27 Cynical,
Except #18 william doesn’t know wtf he’s talking about.
#22 Boyd,
At that age the only way they were prior service is if they were tossed out early.
I can’t imagine why these 2 soldiers did what they were told by those assholes. The only thing I can think of is they were drinking and worried about the consequences of getting arrested in town.
I don’t know about Guardsmen, but in the military, arrest makes you AWOL which causes a whole ‘nuther type of trouble.
[...] I’ve really gotten done today is a bunch of “The Red Tsar”, and small comments here & there. (Tam linked probably my best statement on cannibal-pot ethics in this whole heap around [...]
“Point well taken, and very alien to me as I never had the pleasure of boot camp, and never will, nor will my children if I have any say in the matter.”
You realize you just totally jinxed your kids, right? Hope you knocked on wood.
So, these NG licked up either their own urine, someone else’s urine, or some random fluid in an alley (none particularly pleasant options) and people still claim they won’t follow orders to doorkick American homes to confiscate guns?
I’d love to see those filth to die in prison as an example to the others, and spend every single day for the rest of their worthless lives learning what it means to be forced to lick something.
JS wrote:
“Rambo is just a fantasy. Even the mightiest military in the history of the world cowers before local police in Amerika. Must be intoxicating for cops to know this.”
I am well aware of the fictional aspect of the matter. But it is from such abuse that revolutionaries are spawned. And if those who’ve never been on the receiving end of the violence they perpetrate on others should suddenly encounter that violence, courtesy of ‘shots fired in anger’ then the next puddles of urine found in the street might well be theirs.
We can hope, anyway.
I’ve been to the Dells. You’ll never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy.
However, the salt water taffy is OK.
these guys were dumb enough to do what the officers said?
then dumb enough to publicize it by filing a lawsuit?
hard to believe.
I’ve been there, too, but it was decades ago. The villainy and scum drove us around in a Duck and pointed out some iron rings in the sides of the cliffs where they said the Vikings moored their ships when they discovered America. I thought they were full of shit. I think I was five.
This thread is useless without pictures.
Frank: I was hunted once. I just came back from ‘Nam. I was hitching through Oregon, and some cop started harassing me. Next thing you know, I had a whole army of cops chasing me through the woods! I had to take ‘em all out. It was a bloodbath.
Charlie: That’s Rambo, dude.
Frank: What?
Charlie: You just described the plot of Rambo.
In response to Comment #18:
Boot Camp does indeed instill discipline, but NOT blind obedience. The Army is not a collection of robots.
Why these two particular Guardsmen decided to follow orders that on their face should have drawn a very gruff “Hell no!” in response is only known to them.
Speaking for myself, as a 15 year career sailor, any order to do such would be responded to in the spirit the order was offered, in non-touchy-feely language.
#43 They’ve been fired, but I would just love to tatoo “P-I-G” on their foreheads and drop them in general population of a state prison. They’d learn a thing or two about licking. And sucking.
You assume they aren’t already well versed in those actions.
#37
What you should do is print out all accompanying articles related to this along with your tourism paraphernalia and return it to the town/city tourism board or city hall. Let them know you never miss a chance to educate your family, friends and acquaintances about the horrors to be found in Wisconsin Dells.
I’m thinking about doing this with Boise ID.
If fact a contest should be started for the best T-Shirt/Bumper Sticker slogan that describes a particular horror of the day courtesy of Law Enforcement. When a winner is selected, we can all separately forward it onto the appropriate: tourism council, governor, congressperson and the offending LE Agency.
Anybody game? (Radley may not approve)
Let’s start with Wisconsin Dells and Boise ID.
Yes it’s immature but what else can we do but disparage them!
Is it just me, or have there been a string of these really bizarre cop abuse stories lately? I mean Taserings and beatings and stuff like that have sadly become pretty routine. But in the last week we have:
1. the cop from Idaho who used a Taser to sodomize a guy
2. the West Virginia cop who was making people strip so he could tug on their underwear.
3. These guys in Wisconsin making people drink pee
And just this evening we have # 4, a cop from Florida who was detaining male illegal immigrants and forcing them to perform sex acts on him.
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/broward/sfl-bso-deputy-arrested-sex-abuse,0,1484852.story
And that last one is also “Officer of the Year” with an “exemplary” record no less.
I find it difficult to believe anyone would go through the expense of extradition on a fucking ticket.
Obviously you have no experience with Minnesota. They will extradite for anything… anything at all just to get you in their jail / court. Why? Because Minnesota makes the accused pay for the entire process, from arrest through adjudication, plus near-endless court fees, probation fees, jail fees, release fees… pretty much anything they can charge for they do.
Yes, I know this from personal experience.
* Yes, I know this happened in Wisconsin.
#54
FTA:
O.M.F.G!
I know it’s not funny but my sense of humor is kinda twisted. I got an image of Reno911 while I read that story.
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/broward/sfl-bso-deputy-arrested-sex-abuse,0,1484852.story
worst comments ever. Florida sounds worse than Mississippi.
Bullshit story.
Two two-tour vets licked pee off the ground to avoid peeing citations? That simply doesn’t ring true.
I’d like to know if there’s any way to contact Specialists Anderson and Schiman to let them know that there are citizens like yours truly who will have their backs should they decide to pursue this in court.
I have been in the family of LEOs and I have never heard of garbage like this being done even to perps that deserve it. To my way of thinking, were police officers to do that to me today, they would be pulling them out of the nearest river weighted down by lead pumped into them from head to toe. However, I must add that when I was just a little older than those guardsmen, I had the misfortune of being accused wrongly of spotlighting deer because I had just purchased a new T-Bird with lights that went on when one turned left or right. I just happened to be driving through hunting country on opening day. I was treated very badly by only one of two officers, the oldest (middle aged who acted like he was high on something.) My fortunes began to improve as they searched vainly for a flashlight or spotlight which did not exist and a military policeman showed up. I was a Marine. They toned it down and then one of the officers, the less aggressive one noticed the sidelights and how they lit up the entire woods where we were stopped. They let me go finally with the comment that I was fortunate that I did not have a flashlight in the car. I did not respond. Why? I was in Virginia and had District of Columbia Tags on my car. I would not have made it back to the District if I had stopped at the State Patrol office in those days and reported abuse by State officers….But it is a new day out there folks and this kind of behavior is inappropriate and in my view no punishment is too strong for these two former cops.