TheAgitator.com
Healy on the Millenials
Monday, July 20th, 2009Gene Healy fears the statism of the generation now coming of age politically:
In May, the Center for American Progress released a lengthy survey of polling data on Millennials, concluding that they’re a “Progressive Generation,” eager to increase federal power.
CAP is the leading Democratic think tank, so it has a vested interest in that conclusion. But they’re on to something. In the last election, 18-to-29 year-olds went for Barack Obama by a 34-point margin.
The CAP report shows that Gen Y is substantially more likely to support universal health care, labor unions, and education spending than older voters. And other surveys support CAP’s “Progressive Generation” thesis.
In 2008, the nonpartisan National Election Study asked Americans whether “the free market” or “a strong government” would better handle “today’s complex economic problems.” By a margin of 78 to 22 percent, Millennials opted for “strong government.”
Kids today are a credulous bunch. The 2007 Pew Political Values survey revealed “a generation gap in cynicism.” Where 62 percent of Americans overall view the federal government as wasteful and inefficient, just 42 percent of young people agree.
If there’s an upside to this it’s that the first generation that can’t remember a time before the Internet does seem to at least to care about civil liberties. They tend to be anti-war, anti-drug war, cognizant of and alarmed by police misconduct, and while they put too much trust in government, they do seem to be be genuinely motivated to force government transparency and accountability, two inherent Internet values. And frankly, if that motivation doesn’t fade, what they discover–either through government disclosures or through its refusal to disclose–ought to be enough to shake at least a few of them from their broader faith in the state.
By the way, Gene’s excellent book The Cult of the Presidency is now available in paperback, and includes an afterword on Obama.
I’m not really sure there is something to this. I mean, historically the youth has opted with and voted for the liberal/progressive mindset.
Of course I could be wrong.
The State has a tremedous advantage: mandatory public indoctrination centers for the young — er, schools.
Good luck overcoming that.
And if by some miracle you do overcome it, the State always has guns. Lots of ‘em. And people ready to use them when necessary.
Many of them don’t remember America under Democratic control (pre-94) so they assume that it must be better than under GOP or split control. 20 years ago, I used to assume that Congress would be less ridiculous under control of the GOP due to the exact same lack of disproof.
Give em 2-4 years. They’ll figure it out.
Unfortunately, their idea of “civil liberties” is an entitlement to other people’s property.
As somebody that’s a borderline Gen X-Millennial, I find that many of my peers self-identify as liberal but agree with many of my libertarian beliefs (particularly, as Radley noted, when it comes to social freedoms). The disagreement definitely comes when it’s time to talk about the State, and while I’ve had a hard time understanding why people who are cynical about everything else can trust the State, I have a theory… These are people who came of age during the Bush 43 administration. They still see government failings as being the result of one bumbling president. Over the past couple months I’ve witnessed Obama supporters starting to question him in the wake of the various bail-outs and Obamacare. I really wonder if the continued failings of an Obama administration might awaken many Millennials to the realization that the government’s problems aren’t specific to certain politicians but rather inherent to the system. Here’s hoping they do.
They tend to be anti-war, anti-drug war, cognizant of and alarmed by police misconduct
In other words, they would have fit in perfectly at Woodstock. ;)
My experience with GenY has been typical of what JohnJ/#4 posted: far too many of them have no problem with taking property from one person and distributing it to another… it’s a moral demand, as far as they are concerned.
http://medianation.blogspot.com/2009/07/cambridge-police-arrest-henry-louis.html
Sorry to be off topic for this post, but I wanted to make sure you’d seen this story.
I think another thing to fear with Gen Y is the effect the instant gratification of technology has on them. When everything is “now” without thought of future consequences, well that is certainly very scary especially when it’s other people’s money they’ll be throwing (or want thrown) around.
I think another thing to fear with Gen Y is the effect the instant gratification of technology has on them.
As if we ( them ) are affected in some different way from all other groups of adults. Trying to change minds, great! Complaining about those damn kids ruining the country, well, it was dumb in the 60′s and there’s nothing new under the sun.
I learned it from watching you, dad!
>>In the last election, 18-to-29 year-olds went for Barack Obama by a 34-point margin.<<
Well I can certainly understand that, considering the apparent alternative of John McCain, but of course this begs the question as to how many of that 18-to-29 age group actually bothered to vote at all.
Well, I can certainly understand how people would be against the free market given all the examples of socialism’s stunning success. Not only that, but I’m quite sure compassionate and egalitarian state direction of the market is going to have even more opportunities to prove its superiority over sleazy, inefficient, greed-mongering capitalism. The only question is whether the U.S. is going to be able to keep up with others in the race down that road.
“this begs the question as to how many of that 18-to-29 age group actually bothered to vote at all.”
Zero would be the best possible result.
I can’t believe he included labor unions in that group. Clearly he is not aware that labor unions are nothing less than an alliance between the principles of democracy and the free market. :D
Well, it’s not hard to understand when you notice that all the failures of the current system are attributed to the free market and all the successes to the planned economy. This is done consistently, by every large news source there is.
All the spectacular failures of planned economies are too far away to be applicable to the nearby problems.
I did my part.
Where’s my bumper sticker?
I’m dropping it in the mail, Zargon. It reads:
Lysander Spooner ’12
Being a millenial myself (I know – I thought I was a Gen Xer for YEARS… I was devastated), I would say it boils down to the lack of international travel. Socialism is purely philosophical for them. They might feel differently if they got to *experience* it.
Not to knock the European nations – they’ve got their perks, I reckon – but I’ve NEVER had a friend take up temporary residence in a nation with universal health care and come back saying, “Man, we need some of that over HERE.” Just doesn’t happen.
They tend to be anti-war, anti-drug war, cognizant of and alarmed by police misconduct, and while they put too much trust in government, they do seem to be be genuinely motivated to force government transparency and accountability, two inherent Internet values.
Well, not really. As I see them, they tend to be
anti-Iraq war but pro-Democrat adventures
Anti-war on marijuana but pro-war on tobacco
alarmed by police misconduct against young people
pro-transparency on entertaining government scandal and UFO-style theories, unconcerned with transparency on things like budgets and graft.
In other words, they are your typical propaganda-created partisan narcissists.
Gee … could this be because most of them are brought up and taught by a largely liberal base of teachers who have moulded their world-view to such a degree?
While I’m not a total anarchist yet, I’m clearly becoming a Cynical in CA sympathizer.
This is a perfect example of how the educational system has done the work it was designed to do. It was never about education. It was always about brain-washing and control.
Most people think the US is a single nation. It is not. The words nation and national were removed in the summer of 1787 at the behest of Mr. Ellsworth because they were not forming a nation. Why do people think the US is a nation? Pledge of Allegiance. Brain washing.
For those of you with children that age, remind them of Bill Cosby’s saying: I brought you into this world. I can take you out. And be serious.
These young people are wussy, crybaby, whiny, ignorant, little wannabies. They don’t want to wrok for anything. They believe jobs, money, and degrees should be given to them just for being alive.
To them I quote Twain: “Don’t go around saying the world owes you a living. The world owes you nothing. It was here first.”
“These young people are wussy, crybaby, whiny, ignorant, little wannabies. They don’t want to wrok for anything. They believe jobs, money, and degrees should be given to them just for being alive.”
Well, they are their parent’s children.
I suppose your generation, whenever that was, brought sunshine, lollipops, and puppy licks to the world because your cohort defied every example before or since, grew up level headed, well adjusted, critical without being cynical, optimistic without being maudlin, and rolled up your sleeves and solved all the problems your parents had wrought for about five minutes before your children fucked it all up.
While reading these comments I can’t help but think of Statler and Waldorf.
//learly he is not aware that labor unions are nothing less than an alliance between the principles of democracy and the free market.//
In states with right-to-work laws, that’s somewhat true. In states with compulsory-union-membership laws, unions embody everything that’s wrong with democracy, without anything to do with the free market.
For those of you with children that age, remind them of Bill Cosby’s saying: I brought you into this world. I can take you out. And be serious.
Yes, you’re not really a parent unless you seriously threaten to kill your children. And it works, too! Nothing motivates kids and teenagers like threats of violence.
Sure are a lot of grumpy old folks out today.
Phelps #17 “Well, not really. As I see them, they tend to be
anti-Iraq war but pro-Democrat adventures
Anti-war on marijuana but pro-war on tobacco
alarmed by police misconduct against young people
pro-transparency on entertaining government scandal and UFO-style theories, unconcerned with transparency on things like budgets and graft.
In other words, they are your typical propaganda-created partisan narcissists.”
Totally agree!
If your parent(s) never threatened to beat your brains in you were either an incredibly good kid or they weren’t very good parents.
“Kids today are a credulous bunch. [...] Where 62 percent of Americans overall view the federal government as wasteful and inefficient, just 42 percent of young people agree.”
Healy sure takes a lot for granted where credulity is concerned. As a middle-aged man whose parents’ lives are more secure thanks to Social Security and Medicare, the federal government is a net good. The various companies I’ve worked for that went bust due to bad or ineffectual management don’t seem particularly efficient in hindsight.
Inefficiencies in government can be found and addressed in ways that don’t lead to the kinds of market dislocations that result from corporations like Enron and AIG hitting the skids. To nonchalantly assert that the 62% are obviously keener observers than the 42% is an act of ideological faith, not keen observation.
“I’m dropping it in the mail, Zargon.”
I assume you meant you’d be dropping it at Fedex or UPS? Won’t they take away your anarchist card for using the government mail system?
karl (#26). Last name Marx? Sorry, couldn’t resist.
Your parents’ lives may seem more secure because of Social Security and Medicare, but they’re not. What government gives, government can take away, regardless of “contributions” (taxes). Sometimes I think the main “benefit” of these programs is that they free the soon-to-be-retirees from the responsibility of saving, and their offspring of the responsibility of helping their parents as they grow older.
But your point that ineffectual private sector companies fail due to their own incompetence is well taken. That’s how capitalism is supposed to work: the companies that perform well are rewarded with growth and profits, while the useless or inefficient ones close their doors. Unfortunately, governments, government agencies and now government-supported businesses that are inefficient simply get yet another transfusion of taxpayer dollars, and continuing failing their way into riches.
Apparently the liberatarians are worried their influence might be on the wane. That’s a shame if true, since they’ve been so sucessful at reigning in government waste and abuses. Where would be without them?
Throw in some typos and I could’ve written, word-for-word, comment #5.
Obama supporters are slowly coming around to how bad he is and that could be a pretty solid silver lining.
If someone did a poll like this in 1970, when “youth” was dominated by hippie culture, would the results have been much different? In 1980? 1990? Young people are traditionally more left-leaning than older adults and have been for decades. What’s more significant, in my opinion, is the way in which older people are embracing big government much more than they used to.
I’ve NEVER had a friend take up temporary residence in a nation with universal health care and come back saying, “Man, we need some of that over HERE.” Just doesn’t happen.
I have a few friends or acquaintances who live in various western European countries, but have made extended visits to the US (year or more, typically for school). They are uniformly of the opinion that our healthcare system is a major downside to life here.
I have one acquaintance who currently lives in Germany (moved there 2 years ago). We are not close, but he has never complained about their healthcare when we do talk.
I’ve NEVER had a friend take up temporary residence in a nation with universal health care and come back saying, “Man, we need some of that over HERE.” Just doesn’t happen.
Your friends must have had good insurance plans in the states.
Most of the people who I know who live in Europe seem to be satisfied with the health care systems over there (there is quite a bit of variation on how it is implemented). I am sure it is better here in a lot of ways, provided you have good insurance, but it is not the horror show that a lot of people try to make it out to be over there. A lot of people, right or wrong, would rather have the security of it always being there that have the best and fastest care.
I oppose government mandated/provided health care here, but mostly because of the taking people’s money without their consent and giving it to other people problem.
#27 | Chance –
“I’m dropping it in the mail, Zargon,” wrote Cynical.
“I assume you meant you’d be dropping it at Fedex or UPS? Won’t they take away your anarchist card for using the government mail system?”
All part of the irony, Chance. Not only would Lysander Spooner have never run for President, he fought the U.S.P.S. tooth and nail on first-class mail delivery.
If your parent(s) never threatened to beat your brains in you were either an incredibly good kid or they weren’t very good parents.
So, the parents who have to resort to threats of violence to get their kids to behave are the “good” ones? And the parents who teach their kids that making moral choices is about acting out of an understanding of right and wrong, instead of out of fear of being beaten, are the “not very good” ones?
Funny, I worked for years with kids who were too violent for regular schools. I never had to threaten any of them with violence, even when they threatened me, to get them to do their schoolwork and follow the rules. Seems they’d learned from their parents that when people aren’t doing what you want them to do, you threaten them with violence.
To be fair, that’s how government solves all it’s problems. Just as people can’t imagine life without government, so too can’t they imagine life without violence (I’m no exception). It’s just that violence is a much uglier word than government.
—
Cynical, that might be the only bumper sticker idea I’ve ever heard that I’d seriously consider putting on my car. I have a thing for jokes nobody around me will ever get.
As a (ahem) Millennial, let me just say that if I could escape the cave to the clear light of day, so can my fellow cohorts. I think the best way is to drop the Gen-X cynicism, and believe in the power of your ideas. I think the best way to sell classical liberalism (i.e. libertarianism) to Millennials is to appeal to our optimism, by emphasizing the power of imagination and freedom to overcome obstacles in our path, as opposed to a cumbersome, inflexible government. The future can be a great ally, so long as you believe in it.
These kids have it exactly right (though maybe I am biased, being one of them). Don’t trust the cops or the “intelligence” community, or the military, but also don’t trust capitalists to do anything other than what will enrich themselves at everyone else’s expense, and so have the state watch over them while citizens watch over the state. If my peers really feel that way, I can’t wait until we inherit the earth.
And to all you libertarians, thpbthpbthpbthpbthpbt (picture me with thumbs in ears, fingers extended and wiggling, and tongue out). They’re not listening to your ridiculous anti-state paranoia.
[...] Radley Balko flags a Gene Healy column discussing the apparent statis- er, progressivism of the millennial generation. Radley adds: If there’s an upside to this it’s that the first generation that can’t remember a time before the Internet does seem to at least to care about civil liberties. They tend to be anti-war, anti-drug war, cognizant of and alarmed by police misconduct, and while they put too much trust in government, they do seem to be be genuinely motivated to force government transparency and accountability, two inherent Internet values. And frankly, if that motivation doesn’t fade, what they discover–either through government disclosures or through its refusal to disclose–ought to be enough to shake at least a few of them from their broader faith in the state. [...]