TheAgitator.com
City Councilman Learns Firsthand the Folly of Breed-Specific Dog Bans
Wednesday, July 1st, 2009Aaron Rochester, a city councilman in Sioux City, Iowa, who led an effort to get pit bulls banned in the city is now appealing to prevent his own dog from being euthanized after it apparently bit a neighbor. His dog? A Labrador.
It’s just an anecdote, but it’s illustrative of the problems with breed-specific legislation. Bad owners create bad dogs, regardless of the dog’s lineage. Bans on pit bulls don’t prevent dog fighting, nor do they prevent people from raising vicious dogs. They just ensure that dogs fitting the pit bull description will be vicious, because the well-bred lines will be discontinued and good owners will stop raising them. Meanwhile, people who raise dogs for fighting will simply move on to another breed.
Moreover, the term pit bull isn’t really a breed at all. It’s a generic term that can and has been applied to just about any dog with bulldog and/or terrier traits (take the pit bull test here). The American Kennel Club-recognized breed that’s generally associated with the term is the American Staffordshire Terrier. And the vast, vast majority of staffies are harmless (they’re actually considered a child-friendly breed).
I hope Rochester’s dog isn’t put down, and instead sent to a trainer. But Rochester ought pay the approriate damages to his neighbor and perhaps take a couple of dog-rearing classes before he’s allowed to own another dog. Maybe he’ll even learn from all of this why specific breeds aren’t the problem.
my formerly feral pit-mix is the sweetest gentlest creampuff with kids; dogs, cats, and vermin are a different story
I don’t think putting the dog down is the answer either. However, some sort of penalty should apply to the owner. Say a pretty massive fine, i.e., $1000 per incident? That should be enough impetus to keep dog fenced in.
Karma is a bitch, ain’t it?
Very simple for me.
If it was my dog.
Dog left the property and bit a person who was not trespassing, breaking in or violating my property or person (family) in any way. Dog gets a bullet to the head.
That should be the only responsible decision for the owner.
There’s a thing called “territorial aggression”. Owner should have taught the dog the boundaries of the property.
And to add on, if you were visiting my property and my dog, without provocation bit you, the dog gets the same bullet treatment.
I…will…not…own…a…biting…dog.
Spare the dog.
Have the councilman put down instead.
;P
A dog is an animal. Train it all you want, in the end it will do what it wants. Just ask Sigfried and Roy. I don’t think killing the dog is the answer, as it’s a knee-jerk reaction – that response never generates a proper solution. If the bite > little nip, then yes maybe killing the dog is the best solution. I’ve had plenty of dogs at the dog park give me play bites (I know what these are, as dogs do it to each other to initiate play), and I’ve had a few that I felt weren’t play bites but definitely weren’t a threat. The owner got an earful, but killing the dog is just using violence to solve a problem. Only The State has permission to solve problems with immediate violence, even death.
Yeah, I had a aquantance’s pit that mangled my lab (who was on-lead) at a place outside of our yards, costing me many hundreds in vet bills.
The pit owner was, and still is, a complete moron who lives in a toxic combination of adoration/anthromorphization of said dog as well as complete fear of it (won’t take it on-lead for fear of aggression.) Dog doesn’t know right from wrong, asshole, he just knows you don’t set any boundries for him.
As said pit-owner was a moron, he couldn’t afford to pay me back for my vet visits.
I rather like the pit, he’s a nice dog (piss poor socialization and criminal lack of discipline notwithstanding.)
The owner, on the other-hand, like all owners who fetishize the machismo of their dogs, is an absolute fucking moron.
The biggest burden for large-breed dog owners isn’t the breeds, it’s fellow dog-owners.
Don’t too hard on cappy. While his methods seem harsh it is precisely that method that has turned the American Staffordshire Terrier and the American Pitbull Terrier (yes, that is a breed and they are different the UKC recognizes the latter while the AKC the former, and some dogs in the past have been registered with both groups) into such people friendly breeds. Human aggression dogs are put down. That is a very significant form of selection against human aggression. So he may seem cold hearted, but in the end its the right thing to do with a man biter. If you can retrain the dog so it wont bite people great, if not euthanise it in a humane way.
One thing is not like the other. Dogs are domesticated animals and highly social and have been selectively bred for hundreds of years if not longer, to be around humans.
This person should never own any dog of any breed. Dogs are heirarchical creatures. Left alone in a pack they will form a structure with the alpha male at the top. As the human in your “pack” it is your job to be the “alpha” the top dog. This doesn’t mean beating the dog, but setting rules and limits. Like with a child. You don’t let your kids shit in the living room, run around God knows where and engage in inappropriate behavior with orthers….same with your dog. You are the one who decides where to go, what to do, when to eat, and so forth.
Some people really dislike Ceasar Milan, but in one episode he said something that I totally agree with. A couple were asking which is his favorite dog. He replied all his dogs are number two in his pack. They asked who is number one, and his response was immediate and unequivocal, “I am.” Damn right.
Sad, but true. Its the idiots people notice, remember and think of when it comes to BSL. The big loveably dogs that aren’t a danger to others and who have good owners are overlooked…because their dogs aren’t noticable, dangerous, or scary.
I blogged on this, too. My pit mix is awesome. If the councilman had his kids and his dog running around the yard without supervision, I don’t think it’s the dog’s fault
“Hey, I loaned my dog to Michael Vick, and now look what he does!” Small dogs seem much more prone to biting than big ones, it’s just when the big ones do it, a lot more damage is caused. BTW, I don’t think it’s necessary to formally euthanize the dog, just have the local SWAT team do a drug raid. That’ll take care of the pooch.
I own an American Pit Bull Terrier and I never let my dog lose in the front yard off leash. The dog never goes out the front door off leash. My backyard is surrounded by a cinderblock wall that the dog cannot jump over or dig under. The only other way out is a wrought iron gate with wooden slats covering it–in short my dog is always secured for my safety (lawsuits), my neighbors safety, and my dog’s safety. This man failed his dog.
A watchdog…off leash…words fail me. A watchdog is a dog that is going to be human aggressive. American Pit Bull Terriers and American Staffordshier Terriers make horrid watch/guard dogs.
Yes, dogs have been domesticated for hundreds of years, but they are still an animal. Even establishing yourself as alpha (I have 2 large dogs, and I know about this establishment) doesn’t mean your dog won’t do something completely out of the ordinary because IT’S AN ANIMAL. The only guarantee is for the human to keep the dog on leash, and hanging onto it and keeping it away from other people and dogs, if out of the house. I’ve seen plenty of dogs on leash, but the owner lets it wander close to people/things, and it goes nuts. Even my own well-behaved dogs, due to my wife and I constantly establishing that we are alpha, will sometimes want to bark or lunge towards a dog or person. These are the times that make me wish my dogs could talk and tell me why that thing makes them protective of us. Are we bad owners? Absolutely not — we do so much for our dogs, and yet things happen because they’re an animal.
Agree with so many of the opinions on this blog and I come here for a daily dose of common sense. But I have to disagree with the consensus–pit bulls are simply not like other breeds. The “my pit bull is a sweetheart and has never killed anyone” anecdotes are great, but nearly all fatal dog-on-dog or dog-on-human attacks involve pit bulls. I recognize that correlation does not necessarily imply causation, but seriously–isn’t it obvious that they’re different? Even if pit bull owners tend to be a big part of the problem, there are millions of horrible owners of all kinds of breeds–where are the maulings? This guy’s lab bit someone, but it didn’t tear them to pieces. As someone with libertarian sensibilities I have a hard time supporting the “banning” of almost anything, but my litmus test is always, “does it hurt or bother anyone else.” IMO, a good case could be made for restricting the breed in some way. A reasonable analogy would be pet hyenas. I’ve seen footage of people frolicking with them in cages, but I’d have a hard time accepting my neighbor’s owning one.
“Maybe he’ll even learn from all of this why specific breeds aren’t the problem.”
A politician, learning? What are the odds?
Let’s mix dogs and people.
What could possibly go wrong?
I love dogs just as much as the next guy. This is like the backyard swimming pool issue — some kids are going to drown no matter what. Some people are going to get bit by dogs no matter what. Danger is a part of life.
Make amends, move on. Or else fill in all the swimming pools and shoot all the dogs. No thanks.
Why the hate for Cappy? Steve Verdon has it right in his defense of Cappy: dogs that aggress against people have to be put down, which is exactly why the various “pit” breeds are famously not people-aggressive: fighting dogs that bite people are put down on the spot.
I don’t own any pits, but I do like the breed. I’ve met hundreds of them (my wife is a groomer, and we board dogs in our home). I have never, ever, met a legitimate “pit breed” that showed even the slightest aggression towards people.
Sorry, I must have typed in the wrong url. I was looking for Radley Balko’s website.
#3 | Hamburglar007 | July 1st, 2009 at 4:57 pm
Karma is a bitch, ain’t it?
graffiti on the bathroom wall of Blueberry Hill, a local bar- ‘Your karma ran over my dogma’…
Labs, along with Pits, are not supposed to be human aggressive. Those were traits that were specifically bred out of those lines long ago. There is more to this story that we aren’t getting, a lab that charges from the porch to attack someone on the street isn’t behaving normally.
I have two dobes that are well socialized but I get bad looks from people every day I walk my dogs around the block. I almost got into a physical altercation with a neighbor a few years ago because he verbalized his belief that my dogs were a danger to the neighborhood in my presence. The only problems I’ve ever had with my dogs on a leash were due to other dog owners who hadn’t properly socialized their animals. I can’t take my dogs to the dog park because other people haven’t taken the time to properly train their dogs not to rush up and jump on another dog. I’m somehow the bad guy because their dogs are little assholes.
Lastly, in praise of dobes, they’ve already earned their lifetime supply of food and treats. Someone kicked in my front door last fall and walked away without taking anything thanks to being met at the door by my dogs.
“Left alone in a pack they will form a structure with the alpha male at the top.”
Steve, I agree with 99% of your post. The 1% I take issue with is the alpha-male. Typically, the alpha female in a dog pack takes point. On the other hand dogs (typically) submit more quickly to adult male human family members, rather than women, as adult human males have deeper voices and more commanding phyisical presence. That said, when it comes to female dogs, they don’t call them bitches for nothing.
BamBam-
“Even my own well-behaved dogs, due to my wife and I constantly establishing that we are alpha, will sometimes want to bark or lunge towards a dog or person.”
That comment, coupled with your comparison to domesticated canines to siberian tigers, makes me question whether or not you truly have asserted dominance over your animals. Nothing personal, but living in fear of your pet is a self-fullfiling prophesy.
Or, you know, you could just get them spayed or neutered… That people-bitin’ gene can’t be transmitted through licking, can it?
Not true at all. This is rubbish. A CDC study found that 60% of dog attacks resulting in death involve pit bull type dogs and rottweilers. Which of course isn’t all that shocking. Both are good sized dogs (pit bull type dogs can range from 40 pounds up to over 100 pounds). Both breeds are strong. So if they do attack the chance for serious injury and even death is going to be higher. But that is not “nearly all”. I would also add that you have to factor in breed popularity. Pit bull type dogs are extremely popular (often with the wrong type of person) and Rottweilers went througha brief stint of popularity. In such cases inexperienced/ignorant owners take charge of a dog they don’t know how to handle and bad things result. Lastly note that “pit bull type” dogs include quite a few breeds not just the American Pit Bull Terrier or the American Staffordshire Terrier. They include Presa Canarios, Cane Corsos, Dogo Argentino, American Bulldogs, and mixes of all of these breeds.
Also, there is the numbers issue. How many fatal dog deaths are there in a year? A few hundred? How many pit bulls are out there in the population? Tens of millions? So the relative danger a breed poses towards the general public should be balanced by the size of the breeds population.
Well, it depends on the time frame in question. Pit bulls are now the current fad/demon dog. Before that it was other breeds like the Doberman, the Bloodhound, Newfoundlands, and even St. Bernards for a brief period (Cujo anyone??). Karen Delise has done tremendous amounts of work going through news articles for the past century and compling the results and looking at the Demon Dogs of the Time. They all tend to involve similar things like
1. Dogs for protection
2. Dogs that are maltreated
3. Dogs that are intact
4. Dogs that are not socialized
And so on. All hallmarks of bad ownership and irresponsible behavior on the part of people. We don’t punish good drivers for the bad behavior or reckless jackasses…well we do in a Nanny State.
I’m calling you out on this one. You sound like a Nanny Stater. “Ooohhhh it might hurt me therefore I have to ban all of them everywhere even though I have no basis for that belief other than news articles who very purpose is to sensationalize and sell ad space”. Epic fail here.
Uhhhmmm…what? Seriously, you are comparing the “nanny dog” to a wild animal? Really? You do realize that Pete the Pup from Our Gang/Little Rascals was a pit. That Laura Ingalls-Wilder’s dog was a pit? That Helen Keller owned a pit?
Cackalacka,
Yep, you’re right. I was thinking “alpha” but then when typing must have just typed “alpha male”. D’oh!
I agree. I have an easier time getting the dog’s attention than my wife. When they are misbehaving and I walk into the room they stop. She has to say something.
Totally agree, especially with that last part. Animals while not as smart as humans they can and do pick up on emotions and fear is a strong emotion. If you have any fear and/or reservations regarding a dog, then owning that dog is just not for you. Find someone who can provide a good home and find another dog, or even a different pet. In the end you have to be honest with yourself, even to the point of being willing to put down your dog if you think it is going to hurt someone.
Steve,
Thanks for the discussion.
Pit Bulls make up somewhere between 2 and 9 percent of the total dog population, yet they were involved in 65% of fatal attacks–no way you can sell me on the “they’re just the latest demonized breed” thing.
Since you brought up Hellen Keller and the Little Rascals, I just read recently about a 10-year-old rascal who was killed by a pair of pit bulls in Texas. Witnesses saw him fighting the two dogs off with his skateboard and later they saw the dogs dragging the boy’s body alongside a rural road. To believe you, I suppose this could have just as easily been a couple of Newfoundlands it it were a few years ago.
I was using the Hyena as an extreme analogy and I still think it works perfectly–it proves, I hope, that even you have some sort of a threshold or line you don’t think we should cross. You might think Pit Bulls are sweethearts, even if I say statistics prove otherwise, but if you let a strict a freedoms doctrine govern all decisions then why not hyenas? I’ll bet if they made up 1% of the “dog” population they wouldn’t account for more than 65% of the fatal attacks.
As a lab owner, I’m very defensive about breed-specific legislation.
You see, as labs make up a solid plurality of helper dogs for folks with disabilities (more than any other breed), they also make up a solid plurality of attacks on humans that require hospitilization in North America (also more than any other breed.)
Now, while this statistical danger is primarily due to the fact that the breed is very popular. And I’d attribute the fatality number to the fact that any attack-dog breeds are owned by the Michael Vicks of the world, or my aforementioned friend that fetishes his dogs ‘power.’
That said, Councilman Rochester notwithstanding, folks pushing for breed-specific bans typically are using these bans as a ways to a means of banning all dogs, not just ones that are perceived as ‘dangerous.’
Kidseven: I would recommend you do some research into the topic of dog aggression and bite statistics. (http://nationalcanineresearchcouncil.com/dog-bites/dog-bite-studies/)
The ‘pit bull’ is the media darling right now when it comes to ‘vicious dogs’ (20 years ago it was GSD/Dobies/Rotts), in terms of the fact that attacks by other dogs are actually underreported by the media because they aren’t ’sexy’ enough (http://btoellner.typepad.com/kcdogblog/media_irresponsibility/), but these things come and go in cycles, and the science never has backed up ‘vicious breed’ stereotypes. In another 20 years, we will have another ‘vicious dog breed’ of the hour.
Pai, respectfully, do you disagree with the published stats that pit bulls make up 2 to 9% of the dog population and account for 65% of dog attacking human fatalities? That’s not spin or bad science–just the numbers.
Would you concede that Australian Shepherd’s are better at herding than pit bulls? Or how about Newfoundlands being better swimmers? Not a stretch for me to see where one breed might be a better fighter, stronger or more aggressive by nature–therefore more dangerous. Am I stereotyping them as a vicious breed?
My point has never been that pits are more likely to bite than a lab or a poodle, only that if my 2-year-old is mauled or killed by a dog it’s VERY likely to have been a pit bull. Biting is not my concern. Mauling and death are. And I see way too many pit bull owners who mishandle, mistreat or behave recklessly with their dog. I don’t particularly favor seat belt laws, helmet laws, smoking laws, etc. but those things are all in my control–I can choose at my own risk. When I’m at the beach with family and a pit is running loose it’s different.
I concede the fact that the media is doing its usual distorting, and I concede death-by-dog-attack is low on the list of rational fears, and I’m not even SURE I’d want to do anything about them, but I still say the breed is different enough to warrant a close look. Any specific breed that is repeatedly involved in killing–not just biting–people is a concern.
No big deal if to me if it turned out popcorn makers killed 30 people a year with death by hot oil–you want popcorn bad enough to risk it–go ahead. But a bunch of pinheads bringing their popcorn makers to the park next to my family is a little different.
You might be right that the media will focus on a new dog in another 20 years, but I’ll bet the “new vicious dog” will probably be even more dangerous–as I believe the pit bull is compared to say, a German Shepherd–because that’s what seems to sell. And even though these new dogs will be stronger and potentially meaner, there will be a bunch of owners telling me how sweet they are and how they’re being maligned by the media. And the owners of dogs that chew up some kid will continue to say, “She’s never shown any signs of aggression before.”