Comments on: Nicholas Kristof on Tiananmen

By: Danny

Danny — Thu, 04 Jun 2009 21:15:20 +0000

To those downmodding #39:

So I guess after the incident the kid shouldn’t have gotten an apology? The teacher should have been thrown in the slammer? What? I don’t get your point of downmodding that statement.

By: Danny

Danny — Thu, 04 Jun 2009 21:02:30 +0000

{the teacher was, in essence, saying, “It offends me that your shirt cheapens the stuggle for liberty. I myself believe that anyone should be free to say anything that I agree with. Since freedom is so precious to me, I will limit your freedom to cheapen an icon of freedom that I cherish.”}

Which is why I said that the kid deserved at LEAST an apology, which I can’t verify did or did not happen.

By: Danny

Danny — Thu, 04 Jun 2009 21:00:32 +0000

That’s some mighty fine analysis, Boyd Durkin. Are you sure that’s a sufficiently elaborate analysis of the shirt you haven’t seen?

By: Bill

Bill — Thu, 04 Jun 2009 20:57:45 +0000

I can understand how one could be offended at the T-shirt Danny described. It would have been great for the teacher to explain why he was offended. But the whole point of freedom of speech is that we allow expression that offends us. By imposing any consequence on the kid for wearing the shirt, whether it was making the kid change it, or sending him to the office, the teacher was, in essence, saying, “It offends me that your shirt cheapens the stuggle for liberty. I myself believe that anyone should be free to say anything that I agree with. Since freedom is so precious to me, I will limit your freedom to cheapen an icon of freedom that I cherish.”

By: Boyd Durkin

Boyd Durkin — Thu, 04 Jun 2009 20:52:02 +0000

I imagine Radley is rather proud of the quality of posts he gets here. Not this one. Early favorite for Worst Comments of the Year.

Can Obama get me the last ten minutes back if I vote for him?

By: Danny

Danny — Thu, 04 Jun 2009 20:47:32 +0000

Boyd Durkin,

AUTHORITARIANISM

Comparing “persecution” of skateboarders for damaging public property to thousands of students being injured or losing their lives for peacefully protesting for their rights.

Which actually WAS the purpose of the shirt.

By: Boyd Durkin

Boyd Durkin — Thu, 04 Jun 2009 20:42:36 +0000

I’d say the point of the shirt was lost on the teacher.

AUTHORITARIANISM.

By: Danny

Danny — Thu, 04 Jun 2009 20:40:28 +0000

Oh, and thanks, omar, for breaking it down so clearly and responding articulately, even if nuances of my arguments were lost in your reproduction of them. ;)

By: Boyd Durkin

Boyd Durkin — Thu, 04 Jun 2009 20:40:17 +0000

tank guy gets Oscar worthy big budget sound track.

Danny gets played off by Keyboard Cat.

Curious…how much changed in China? What do the students today know of the murders?

By: Danny

Danny — Thu, 04 Jun 2009 20:39:01 +0000

No, omar, I brought up point 3 because it is a valid, though secondary, point of the contention with the shirt and the behavior of the student. Besides, it says that the kid is wearing the shirt for one invalid and ignorant reason instead of memorializing the terrible times surrounding the Tienanmen events. Of course he shouldn’t be forced to memorialize or be prevented from damaging public property, but he can and hopefully will be retributed against if he does damage public property.

As far as the second point, I really don’t know how much trouble the student got into (presumably none), though I’m sure he was at least embarrassed, for which he should have at least gotten an apology. What I really praise my teacher for is for recognizing the purpose of the shirt and for wanting to preserve the purpose of those students in Tienanmen square. His execution was most decidedly poor, as others have pointed out.

By: omar

omar — Thu, 04 Jun 2009 20:22:15 +0000

Danny, I got your point.

1) It’s disrespectful and ignorant for a kid to have this on his shirt.
2) Your teacher is great for punishing him.
3) Skateboarders cause damage to public property.

I agree with point 1 to a degree, assuming you are in his head and knew he wasn’t making a more subtle statement about putting yourself (the skateboarder) in Tank Man’s shoes.

On point 2, I think your teacher is foolish at best. At worst, the teacher created a smaller daily-life version of the same event in his classroom. The reason the Tank Man image is so powerful is that we all hope we will stand up for freedom when the time comes. That ‘time’ can be in real life-or-death situations or it could be the little dramatic moments happening every day.

On point 3, we weren’t talking about that. You only brought it up as a distraction from points 1 and 2. That the student depicts someone engaging in destructive behavior, has no bearing on points 1 or 2.

By: Danny

Danny — Thu, 04 Jun 2009 20:05:19 +0000

Jesus christ… I say “fuck you” once and all of the sudden the rest of my words disappear? Everything else I said was an argument or explanation. I think you missed the point.

By: omar

omar — Thu, 04 Jun 2009 19:57:24 +0000

@#8 | Judas Peckerwood

I just spit water at my computer that was so funny.

Unfortunately, like another poster said, the teacher did lose a valuable chance to teach a lesson or at least open up discussion on the topic. The lesson the kid probably learned is “This isn’t about freedom to skateboard anymore, this is about my freedoms to stand up and say what I want. I am the Tank Man and the teacher is the tank.”

Teaching about freedom by oppressing speech is fucking for virginity.

By: Danny

Danny — Thu, 04 Jun 2009 19:54:42 +0000

It had words to the effect that skateboarders were being persecuted, which is a common theme for those shirts. I can’t remember the exact wording, though. When I was in high school, skating was a huge phenomenon and people wore tons of clothing representing their favorite brands. Most didn’t have a message, but this one did. Besides, the striking image isn’t all that striking if you don’t know what it means, but I could certainly see how a kid could think it is.

By: Rick H.

Rick H. — Thu, 04 Jun 2009 19:48:59 +0000

Danny: This t-shirt you describe isn’t “comparing skateboarders being hassled by cops” to Tiananmen. It’s a visual riff on a striking image. It doesn’t even sound like a political statement at all, to me. Not that that should matter anyway.

By: Judas Peckerwood

Judas Peckerwood — Thu, 04 Jun 2009 19:40:10 +0000

You damn kids get offa my lawn! NOW!

By: Collin

Collin — Thu, 04 Jun 2009 19:39:24 +0000

http://lens.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/06/04/behind-the-scenes-a-new-angle-on-history/

A new image of Tank Man.

By: XI

XI — Thu, 04 Jun 2009 19:31:04 +0000

more t-shirt ideas:
- Anne Frank: Sk8tr grrl
- Rail Grind of Tears
- Bataan Death March… EXTREME!!! (brought to you by Carl’s Jr)

You are free to wear such things. But I think its all rather disgusting, and a teacher would be negligent to not point that out. If my son wore a shirt disrespecting Tank Man like that, he’d soon learn how many cans of food a used skateboard will buy.

By: Matt D

Matt D — Thu, 04 Jun 2009 19:28:13 +0000

Dude, we get it–you don’t like skateboarders. Yeeeesh.

By: MacGregory

MacGregory — Thu, 04 Jun 2009 19:24:15 +0000

Right here, right now. I would prefer not to wait until such time when I might have to become one of those rickshaw drivers. That’s the lesson I see here.