http://www.nytimes.com/1988/12/29/world/nanjing-students-vow-nightly-protests.html

Actually, the Chinese had days of planning the Tiananmen massacre, a premeditated slaughter ordered from the top. Kent State was categorically different, in that respect.

I’d compare Tiananmen to Waco. The tanks had the same purpose in both cases.

Funny you should say that, DaveKrueger…. for recently I’ve really gained an appreciation for a really nasty truth: that the tank I’m going to be placing myself in front of these coming years, is the ideological mainstream, whose ignorance of the true nature of liberty is damn near monolithic.

You’re right, and since we all agree we should go ahead and toss intent out the window when dealing with our own local criminals. Theft is theft, and killing is murder, and speeding is a crime so lets treat moving violations like robbery, all the same right?

You and Matt have finally convinced me. In that vein maybe Radley, as a known agitator, should go into hiding and you and matt should march yourselves down to your local PD and turn yourselves in for your anti-government speech. You can send me a post card from one of the many re-education camps our government runs. Why should you have the right to criticize when the chinese don’t, it’s all the same.

#56
Let me see if I’ve got this right…A panicky, poorly trained reservist at kent state is the same thing as running over dissidents with tanks and what we’ve done in Guantanamo is just as bad as what happens to members of the falun gong in china.

A difference in degree, not a difference in kind. Just because our government hasn’t yet got the top score for number of people directly and intentionally murdered doesn’t give it some kind of moral high ground.

Let me see if I’ve got this right…A panicky, poorly trained reservist at kent state is the same thing as running over dissidents with tanks and what we’ve done in Guantanamo is just as bad as what happens to members of the falun gong in china. Am I getting your argument correct?

You are free to spout whatever hatred and anger you have for your elected officials while those in china have to be very careful about what they say for fear of “disappearing” but our government is just as bad, right?

No system is blemish free but ignoring intent and the historical evidence of all the good this nation has done and tried to do is arguing from a disingenuous position. Again, if you and Ron cannot agree that running over students with tanks is wrong and should be criticized, who exactly are the ones with the blinders on? What more, exactly, does another nation have to do before we can all agree it should be criticized?

I don’t know if it was a tank or a BTR, but I’m pretty sure it was a painting. Will keep looking,

thanks,

Wayne. I think your picture was taken in Hungary in the early 60′s. Was it a tank or a BTR?

fwb. Those are small numbers compared to the number of their own citizens killed by the USSR and China in the 20th century.

Amen. Can’t resist a shout-out to Mike Gogulski, coiner of the phrase, “The penalty is always death.”

http://www.nostate.com/116/the-penalty-is-always-death/

This is the very essence of the State. Champions of government, even “limited,” should always be aware of what they are defending.

Please explain. That makes no sense. I suspect you don’t understand what “moral relativism” means, considering what you write about it.

You are correct – that last line didn’t make sense. That was the incorrect use of the term, and I took my argument too far out of what I was talking about and it weakens the rest of the argument. Damn furious hands!

Again my bad. I should have said “What I read from what Mattocracy wrote” and not “what he’s saying”. Again, furious hands. I have no problem with you calling me out on these things; I surely wouldn’t hesitate to do the same.

But I think the rest of my post stands on its own. It’s not moral relativism to throw verbal rotten vegetables at someone, even if you agree with them on this one issue, if they are spewing hypocrisy.

An analogy if you will…Do you endorse crimes when you call the police criminals, even if the non-state criminals commit more crimes?

@Tokin42
Just because we may not always agree that what our nation does is “right” doesn’t change the fact that we should be able to discern that running over students with a tank in order to remain in power is wrong and should be roundly criticized.

True. I do discern. But please don’t confuse “we” with congress. I criticize. You criticize. You and I aren’t in the oppression business. In this case, They are hypocrites who deserve ridicule along with every other state who would stand up and say “shame shame shame.” I’m sure not gonna’ take Those People seriously on this issue. If the Russian government condemned Tienamin Square, we would laugh at them for obvious hypocrisy. There are a lot of people laughing at Us right now.

Know what? It’s been a long time since I thought about the prospect of summary arrest. I used to live with that all the time.

It’s that I haven’t been productive enough for them to bother with, you see. Ruined my career behind it.

Lived a whole grown-up life in front of it, Radley.