TheAgitator.com
Virginia DMV Bans Smiling
Sunday, May 31st, 2009This story made the rounds last week. Apparently the Virginia DMV has banned smiling in driver’s license photos, in order to implement some sort of facial recognition software.
But I want to note the article’s intro sentence:
Few places in Virginia are as draining to the soul and as numbing to the buttocks as the branch offices of the Department of Motor Vehicles.
So here’s the thing: Everyone knows the Virginia DMV sucks. The employees are rude to the people they’re supposed to be serving. I’ve never spent less than three hours in the place, no matter what I was there to do.
A few years ago, I had an issue with the DMV that’s too complicated to go into for the purposes of this post. But resolving it required phone calls to a couple of different car insurance companies and the City of Alexandria Finance Department. Virginia-based reps from both Geico and State Farm made comments about the DMV–not only about the agency’s ineptitude, but about how its employees can be vindictive, and are known to actually slap license restrictions on customers who rub them the wrong way.
My particular problem got bad enough that I ended up calling my state delegate, Brian Moran (who is now running for governor). When I started to explain the problem, the staffer laughed and said, “Oh, it’s a DMV thing. Sometimes, they seem to think their mission is to make life hell for Virginia drivers.”
I was astounded. I replied, “I don’t really think it’s all that funny. Isn’t it the state legislature’s job to oversee the DMV? Instead of laughing about how the agency makes life a living hell for residents of Virginia, shouldn’t you be doing something about it? Isn’t that your job?”
She did at least stop laughing. But Moran’s office didn’t help.
So everyone, from Washington Post reporters to state legislators to auto insurers to anyone in city and state government knows the Virginia DMV is awful, and doesn’t really give a damn about its customers. So why haven’t any politicians done anything about it? I gotta’ think that taking up DMV reform would be pretty popular with voters. What’s the downside, here?
If anyone out there is working for one of the major gubernatorial candidates right now, tell them to take up this issue. I don’t find any of the candidates particularly inspiring. I would probably be willing to cast my vote on this issue alone.*
(*Unless it’s Terry McCauliffe, whom I wouldn’t vote for under any circumstances.)
I think the more interesting question is why no one really cares to investigate [i]why[/i] the DMV, among other government agencies, operate so poorly.
It’s easy to note that the DMV sucks and needs fixing. It’s an altogether different problem figuring out [i]how[/i] to fix it. The problem inherent is the same one that afflicts public schools, police departments, zoning boards, courthouses etc etc: lack of competition.
No, no, no. You really shouldn’t push to reform the nation’s DMV’s. They are the best argument available to us against government health care … Do you want your visit to your doctor to be like your visit to the DMV? If not, you better call your congressman … quick.
People still run down our DMV in California but I don’t think that’s fair. It’s improved immensely over the years, imo. I can drive down to our local office and be in and out of there in a half hour, or less. No kidding. And many things, like vehicle registration can be done online.
How did they fix it? I don’t know, but I read where one person gave credit to someone Governor Schwarzenegger hired to fix the agency. Seems to me, though, it had gotten better even before he took office, albeit a little at a time.
I think making a lot of functions available online was a big boost, but I don’t remember when they started that.
Just a guess here but perhaps . . . a union?
Could be the politicians dont want to oppose the government worker’s union involved with DMV. Don’t know if one exists, just hypothesizing.
It certainly seems to work for keeping the cops full of shit.
Delaware has been no-smiling for two years ….
actually, that’s a joke. the official policy is two years old. is always been the unofficial policy.
I suspect this varies greatly with the particular branch. The DMV office in Culpeper has always seemed reasonably well-run. Sometimes the wait can be a bit long, but generally not bad.
The DMV actually charges extra for walk-ins for several services; they would rather handle it by mail or on-line. This is very painless, and keeps the crowds down.
Of course, Culpeper County has less than 50,000 people, and so the local DMV personnel are a bit less anonymous; I’m sure this makes them a wee bit nicer.
Samsam
How is this going to work with those people who always seem to be smiling. You know the kind of people I’m referring to. Those people who walk around with a perpetual smug-ass, holier-than-thou, I-know-a-secret smirk on their faces. Like, for example, former DEA head Asa Hutchnison. Maybe a few hours in the Virginia DMV might cure him of that.
Hey, I know I’m not contributing anything constructive, but I needed to say that anyway.
So I looked up the definition of the word customer, which led me to look up the definitions of buy and purchase, and find you seem to have used the word correctly, but I’m still puzzled, since I associated the notion of customer with the notion of choosing.
Contract it out to three different local commercial businesses and pay them on commission basis. Each competing business will be falling all over themselves to attract customers to their office.
I haven’t been to the local DMV office in at least 20 years. They have little branch offices here where you can take care of most routine business. I doubt that I’ve ever waited more than 20 minutes or so and last time I was there to renew my license, I walked right up to the counter, they took my picture, and I was out of there in about 2 minutes.
Nonetheless, they were not happy smiling people and I’m pretty certain they wouldn’t pee on you if you were on fire. I think the system is just designed so their responsibilities are simple and well understood. If you had an issue that was out of the ordinary, they’d probably send you down to the main hell-hole in downtown Kafkaville, never to be heard from again.
Dave Krueger (#9), you have the right idea. Unfortunately, the real-world “solution” will simply be to throw more money at the DMV.
As a native 15th generation Virginian who has been living in the rocky mountains for close to two decades, I have come to consider VA as just another north eastern police state. Right up there with CT, and MA.
Too many signs, guardrails, cops, and taxes, all to keep every one safe.
Most don’t even remember when VA had car inspections every six months!
Never could relate to using the DMZ as a example of bad customer experiences. Having lived in Colorado and Minnesota – I’ve never spent more than 10 minutes at the DMV. I renewed my tabs and my MN license last month – I spent less time at the DMV than I did ordering my lunch from McDonalds after.
In NY it has improved, but can still be pretty horrible. For routine stuff it usually takes less than 30 minutes. I had to change my address recently which took about 10 minutes. When I had to renew my license a few years ago, it took something around 3 1/2 hours, and I don’t think that has improved much.
1. This is a rather unnecessary rule. At the rate politicians are going, there really isnt much left to smile about so the problem of people smiling will simply fix itself.
2. Facial recognition software is thrown off by smiling? Duly noted.
Odd. Up here in socialist Ontario, Canada we have wee little “DMV” suboffices in many different locations. Staff are friendly, service rapid (unless there are volume problems but that’s nobody’s fault) and it is painless.
“Unless it’s Terry McCauliffe, whom I wouldn’t vote for under any circumstances.”
Radley: that’s a sentiment shared by pretty much everybody in the Democratic party who is to the left of any bought-and-sold corporate whore (in other words, every Dem who isn’t pretty much every Dem congressman or senator or staffer or DLC member).
Yeah, heaven forfend that functioning examples of government doing exactly what the people want it to do (like in, you know, every other G8 country) get in the way of your ideological purity and expose you to the risk of (gasp!) having your citizens receive the sort of health care that all other first world countries take for granted and would be enraged if they lost. (Clutches pearls.)
My local DMV here in MD runs pretty well. It’s never taken me more than an hour to get anything done. When I lived in Hampton Roads though, the DMV was horrific. The only obvious difference to me is that my current DMV seems to have more tellers they aren’t rude.
Obviously, it’s a communist plot. Lure you with good service into becoming socialist and then, after they have you, they let things go to shit. In the U.S. they skip the communist plot step and go right to the shit phase.
The reason politicians haven’t taken up the cause to improve the DMV is because you* mock them and accuse them of wasting money when they try:
http://www.theagitator.com/2009/03/09/state-smiling-lessons/
They clearly can’t win either way on this issue. So, why would they even bother? Either way, all they get is negative attention from someone or another and nothing positive.
*I don’t see author tags when you have guest-bloggers so I’m assuming this was you
I’ve never had much problem with VA DMV, a 20 or 30 minute wait is my worst problem, no hostile employees encountered. In fact, you can do most of what you need with a mouse and a click and it’s actually a reasonable website. Guess I’ve been lucky.
The Indiana BMV banned smiling a couple of years ago, but no one really noticed. No one ever smiles there because they’re so completely incompetent. Last time I went in to renew my license, they didn’t believe that my current state-issued license was legit.
The bigger, more important question: Why is there a DMV at all?
Don’t trot out the tired old line of, “It’s not a right, it’s a privelege.” Bullshit, and the courts have held multiple times that moving along the public ways is a right that cannot be denied without due process.
Driving -was- a right until some legislator decided to make it a privilege. When the auto first came into popular use, there wasn’t such thing as the DMV.
Iowa now bans eyeglasses in DL photos (though endorsements may still require them while driving). If you ask the staff about the reason for the change they have no idea. They cannot point to a statute or administrative rule. All they know is that they cannot give you a license if you want to wear glasses in your photo. Why do they have to be so secretive about the implementation of facial recognition?
Radley, I’m guessing your experience is similar to mine. I lived in Virginia for about 6 months in 2003 after returning to the states. Last summer I moved to Idaho from Maryland. When I went to get an Idaho license I learned that not only had VA suspended my license in 2005, but there was a list of fees and fines that I had previously been unaware of…
1. I’d failed to pay a ticket for not wearing my seatbelt in ’07. That was easy to clear up (it came with a speeding ticket that had been paid… go figure) and the suspension was lifted.
2. $500 fine for failure to have insurance in Jan ’05. A few calls to my insurer and a fax to the DMV cleared that up but note that I was not a VA resident, did not have a VA license, nor did I have a car registered in VA at that time.
3. There are also about $1200 in unpaid personal property taxes from VA that date back to ’05. Again, wasn’t a resident, didn’t have a VA license, and no car registered in the state since Oct of ’03.
After spending about 6 months calling, faxing and writing the DMV and State Comptroller’s Office I’ve given up on item 3. I have no intention of paying the state $1200 for anything. But if you see a story on the wires of a Boise man being shot during a raid on his home due to his failure to pay VA PP taxes… it was probably me.
Hope they leave my wife, baby and dogs alone at least.
Heh – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWySSqhmLjA
(Primus, DMV, studio version)
My wife was in and out of the Alexandria, VA area DMV inside of 20m to get her address changed and license renewed. It CAN happen, though the odds aren’t with you, probably.
When I had to renew my NY dl in 2004 they required me to take an eye exam (despite the fact that I had just taken one at the very same office just a few months before that to get the motorcycle endorsement). When I was at the counter to take test, I noticed something was off with the clerk who was “assisting” me, she was retarded. Not insult retarded, bonafide mentally retarded. I could have read the greek alphabet to her and she wouldn’t have known the difference.
“in order to implement some sort of facial recognition software.”
Why isn’t THIS the part everyone’s worried about? That sentence makes me want to chuck molotov cocktails and head for the hills with a bush rifle…
“So everyone, from Washington Post reporters to state legislators to auto insurers to anyone in city and state government knows the Virginia DMV is awful, and doesn’t really give a damn about its customers. So why haven’t any politicians done anything about it?”
Having power means never having to account for one’s actions, or lack thereof.
I hope this clears up the matter for you.
I’ve never had much of a problem with the Michigan DMV. A few longish waits, but the place was packed.
I moved from Maryland to Virginia, and dealing with my car has been a royal nightmare. In Maryland, other than the time I updated my license after turning 21, I don’t think I ever had to spend more than half an hour in the MVA.
But when I registered my car in the VA DMV, first they put my registration down as Fairfax County instead of Alexandria City. (Something I didn’t notice until months later).
The dmv employee said I couldn’t re-title the car until it’s paid off. Then, I asked the dmv employee, “I read online that I am supposed to pay some sort of tax on my car?” Her response was, “No, because there’s a lien on your title, you have to wait until it’s paid off to pay any taxes on it.” When I asked her if I was all done, she said yes, not ever mentioning anything about contacting the Alexandria Finance Office (probably because she had me down for the wrong county, even though I put it down correctly on the form).
That was back in December 2008. Early in 2009, I received a tax form from Fairfax County for my car. Confused, I sent it back with a note that I don’t live in Fairfax County. About a month later, I got a letter from the DMV asking if I had insurance on the car. I sent them not only the information they asked for, but also wrote on there that my car is co-owned by myself and my father who lives in MD and that the policy is under his name instead of mine. (His name is also listed on the MD car title and registration).
Last month, I found three $40 tickets on my car. (I am able to metro to work, so I only see my car about once a week). The tickets were written roughly 24 hours apart. It was for not having a city decal. I showed the tickets to my boyfriend who has lived in Alexandria (Fairfax) for most of his life. He had no idea what it was about, but as it was a Saturday too late to do anything, I moved my car to his parents’ house over the Fairfax county line to stop getting tickets. The following Monday, I ended up taking vacation time off of work to go to the DMV (because *this* is how I like to vacation). The DMV corrected my registration, but said the tickets had nothing to do with them. They pointed to a poster that was completely blocked by the heads of other employees and said I was supposed to notice that poster when I originally came in to find the phone number to call to alert Alexandria City about my car.
We figured out the address of where we needed to go. We talked to the receptionist of the building who told me that I needed to get my tax bill first. I went to that window, and the employee told me that I was lucky my car didn’t get booted. She said that I found out about the city decal the same way most people do, and that she herself had her car booted before she found out that she needed a decal because she was originally from New Jersey and lived in Maryland. (So the decal is required for non-residents of Alexandria City, too). She also said my car wasn’t safe parked right outside, and that she had seen cars booted out there even though it is obvious that someone without a decal would be parked there in order to obtain one. Unfortunately, because I didn’t pay my taxes in December, I was given a fine for paying late. The employee at that window said, “Just remember, anything you do at the DMV, give us a call and let us know, and we’ll tell you if you need to do anything else. The DMV won’t tell you.”
Then I had to go to another window to pay my bill. The woman would only accept cash, check, or Discover card. No Visa, Mastercard, or American Express. I had unfortunately forgotten my checkbook, so I had to use their $1.50 atm machine to withdraw the cash (about $100) out of my bank account. Then I ran outside to quickly put the decal on my windshield.
Then I had to go to another office to contest the three tickets. I went in with the hope of getting two of the three dismissed. I got really lucky. When I explained the situation and showed proof that I paid my taxes, the woman there was very sympathetic. She also said that the DMV doesn’t volunteer any additional information to anyone. She dismissed all three tickets.
A couple weeks ago, I received a letter from the DMV stating that I did not have insurance on my car and that if my insurance does not send them a letter using their letterhead, my license will be revoked. I called my insurance company. They have no record of the DMV checking on my policy. They assured me that they will fax the DMV a letter showing that my car is fully insured.
Now I’m just waiting for the next letter…probably about the title the dmv said I don’t need to worry about.
Wondering why nobody does anything? The AFCSME union. 100% pro-state expansion as it funds their jobs, plus they hold the keys to getting anything done in any state agency, ever.
VA DMV used to be more lenient about what you could do in driver’s license photos- a LOT more lenient.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owvO640ODwA
(part one is good too)
Unfortunately this made the Richmond local news, officials were embarrassed, and DMV employees got canned over it:(
If the facial recognition can be fooled by smiling, doesn’t it follow that they’ll ban smiling in all public places?
When California booted Gray Davis, a friend of mine tried to run for Governor on a DMV reform platform. Sadly, as a Federal Employee he was not eligible for office.
I agree with Fred that the CA DMV is improving, and I credit technology more than political will. But when I see a computer screen that’s black with green type I figure they’ve still got some work to do.
Oh dear. Photographers have occasionally invited me to “smile for the government!”, so I don’t. What will I do now that they’ve coopted my sullen protest?
In Michigan, one elected official is clearly and directly responsible for the DMV offices. This is the Secretary of State; I don’t know if she does anything else besides running the drivers/car license system, but her picture hangs prominently on the wall of every office, and she’ll be up for re-election in 2010. And the offices are reasonably well-run for government offices, not that I’d want the doctor’s office run the same way. I’ve lived in four states, and Michigan’s DMV is the best, a little better than New Mexico, and much, much better than Oklahoma or Virginia.
It sounds like in VA there’s no elected official who the voters can hold responsible for the DMV. Hardly anyone will ignore all the other issues and switch their votes for legislators or governor based solely on a bad experience at the DMV, so why should they spend time and political capital fighting the bureaucracy and the public employee’s union?
In Tennessee, the county clerk’s offices can do most drivers license stuff. There are various locations around town and most are not usually busy. One location is in a mall and open on Saturday. You do have to go to state offices for somethings like gun carry permits.
When dose the efficiency of government deny us our rights…
I keep hearing more reasons why not to live in this citole of a state
I would expect some type of lawsuit in this situation as the efficiency of the government dose not give them the right to deny people their human rights. I wouldn’t expect the usa government in its current form to last another 15 years. allot of people are screaming tyranny
When dose the government efficiency to catch criminals supersede our human rights?
NEVER
What’s next we all need RF id chips so they can track us and it will make it easier for them to catch criminals. There are a lot of things that are more efficient however they are an attack on our rights as free Americans.
I wouldn’t worry about RF chips I along with millions of other Americans would start a civil war. While the ban on smiling is silly it screams more sinister mandates are ahead in the future all based on the goal of efficiency at the expense of civil and individual liberty
Bump to keep this up close with Google searches!
Just experienced this again today! I’m in the mood to really stir up the pot with the politicians. If they want any type of contributions, we should all expect they will do something about these dumb idiots at DMV!
My issue is with my emmissions – again, another stupid regulation thought up by those on the left without real lives!
I’m considering suing DMV for loss of personal information – ie. their computer system (if you can call it that) doesnt show i have had an emmissions inspecton since 2003 – yet i’ve renewed every two years!
Anyone know a good lawyer that doesn’t like DMV? ;)