TheAgitator.com
Gary Johnson in 2012?
Tuesday, April 21st, 2009Not sure the GOP could handle him, but the former New Mexico governor may run.
Johnson came out against the drug war while still in office in New Mexico, vetoed 700 bills over two terms, and opposed the war in Iraq. He also endorsed Ron Paul in 2008.
And he’s great on Paul’s weakest issue, immigration. From a 2000 interview with Playboy:
PLAYBOY: As governor of a border state, what is your view of the immigration issue?
JOHNSON: I don’t think Easterners recognize that the Hispanics who immigrate are great people, great citizens. They care about their families like other Americans care about their families. They’re living in poverty in Mexico and can come to the United States and do a lot better.
PLAYBOY: By–according to some–taking away jobs.
JOHNSON: They work the lowest-paying jobs, which is a huge step up from where they come from. And they are taking jobs that other Americans don’t necessarily want. They’re hardworking people who are taking jobs that others don’t want. That’s the reality.
PLAYBOY: Would you open the borders and make it easier to immigrate legally?
JOHNSON: My vision of the border with Mexico is that a truck from the United States going into Mexico and a truck coming from Mexico into the United States will pass each other at the border going 60 miles an hour. Yes, we should have open borders. It will help enormously with the drug issue, too, by the way. One of the huge raps on Mexico is that it is a drug supplier, that it’s the drug corridor. But there wouldn’t be drugs coming in illegally from Mexico if there weren’t the demand in the United States. We have a militarized border with Mexico, and it’s a shame. It doesn’t work very well, either. Mexican mules get paid a king’s ransom to carry marijuana or cocaine across the border, but they are just mules. If they get caught, they’re the ones who get locked up, not the drug lords. One out of eight gets caught. Whoever’s paying them south of the border knows that equation and understands the risk.
PLAYBOY: In California, there was a backlash against illegal immigrants. Voters passed a proposition that would have denied them medical and other services.
JOHNSON: It wouldn’t be a problem if they were legal, so the process to make them legal should be easier.
PLAYBOY: Many Americans fear the flood of immigrants that would follow.
JOHNSON: Again, they would come over and take jobs that we don’t want. They would become taxpayers. They’re just pursuing dreams—the same dreams we all have. They work hard. What’s wrong with that?
So refreshing to hear that kind of talk from a politician.
They’re just pursuing dreams—the same dreams we all have. They work hard. What’s wrong with that?
Good damn question. For all the “illegal immigrant” nay-sayers claiming “them brown people be takin our welfarez”, they should answer this before putting their perceived self-interest ahead of the immigrants. We owe it to the world to be free as free as possible, damn the torpedoes. It’s just a bonus these people bring economic benefits with them.
I worked side by side with guys fresh across the border from Mexico down in Phoenix. They were for the most part great guys and hard workers. Fun as could be. Rarely a problem with any of them. “But” they were not working jobs nobody wanted they were working jobs that are in demand, in my case welding jobs. The boss would hire them with no skills, Then have us teach them all the while paying US citizens the same rate of pay. My paternal Grandfather came here from Denmark. I have a great deal of respect for those who come here to better themselves. I just feel they should do it legally.
Sanford/Johnson 2012? Or vice-versa… anyone?
And that interview virtually guarantees that he would never win the GOP nomination. Ever.
He’ll get my vote.
Even odder was that the sanity was actually coming from a Republican. Who seem to be in short supply of that lately.
And why does no one ever answer the ‘taking our jobs’ question by talking about a fundamental economic fact – that the number of jobs is not finite. There were 100 million people in the US in 1950, now there are 300 million. Are 200 million people out of work?
And as far as preferring people immigrate legally – not always an option. I wish people could smoke marijuana legally, but we can’t because of stupid government policies, so we have to do it illegally. Same with immigration – because of stupid government policies, many are forced to immigrate illegally.
“Weakest issue”?
Not with the electorate. Johnson’s is the PC position. But the US is not now and probably has never been a libertarian country. NFW can he get elected on an open-border platform, esp. not in these time.
I’m shocked to hear a politician talk that way. Sounds like a Republican I could stand to vote for. I wonder what else he’s got to say. If he brings as much sense to other topics, he’d be worth hearing.
Anyone who applies logic to the problems of our nation will NEVER get the R or D nomination.
he could be a nice cog in a ‘revolution’ platform…
Interesting but definitely not GOP material
Palin / Bachmann 2012
MG nailed it. Employment not a zero sum game. The only thing I would add is to ask Mr. Johnson to stop talking about “jobs we don’t want.” Immigrants take whatever jobs they can. As their economic conditions improve, they change jobs, start businesses, and increase everyone’s standard of living. Talking in terms of “jobs we don’t want” is, I think, a road to defeat. Most immigrants want what most of us want – a better life for them and their kids.
I think of myself as an open-borders advocate in a theoretical sense, but I see a problem with simply legalizing the illegal population we have here. For decades, we’ve been running a filtering operation, in which we make it difficult for high-skill individuals to stay in the USA. At the same time, we’ve made it fairly easy for those who are desperate enough to enter the USA illegally, and live here as illegal aliens, with all that implies.
Thing is, it appears that the desperation that causes people to come here and to live as illegal aliens is a marker for all sorts of social pathologies. There are plenty of well-off, skilled, intelligent people in all the countries of the world from which we get illegal aliens. Those doctors, lawyers, engineers, executives, and the like, are generally NOT the people who cross the border looking for a job washing dishes or even welding.
The illegals I see (and I work with illegals every day) are disproportionately illiterate and unskilled. Statistics indicate that illegals are disproportionately alcoholic and criminal. The people that we get have had the intelligent / law abiding / skilled filtered out of the USA by our dysfunctional legal immigration system, and the desperate / criminal / illiterate / unskilled filtered into the USA by our differently dysfunctional illegal immigration culture.
After decades of that filtering, it’s no wonder that most Americans associate illegal aliens with negative social attributes. Legalizing the people who have passed through such a filtering system won’t make them greater assets to our country.
If we are going to move to open the borders, better to expand the numbers of properly-filtered people from abroad who can come here and contribute something substantial to our country, rather than legalize the people who have already been selected for attributes that we generally don’t want.
And you hear that? That’s the sound of libertarianism becoming irreparably illegitimate to the general public the moment there is a national security issue involving the border. A border that is that open would be child’s play for terrorists to get across. Why bother trying to get a visa or even fake one, when all you have to do is pay a Mexican trucker $5,000 to look the other way and do everything he reasonably can to keep you concealed from law enforcement?
Aside from the security implications of a completely wide open border, there is the cultural aspect. You have to ignore many good cases from history to honestly believe that a mass migration of one population into another population’s land won’t have deep political and cultural consequences.
I’ve never gotten a serious libertarian response to the question of what would be the libertarian response if all of Saudi Arabia wanted to move, Free State Project style to a small state and completely change its culture by overwhelming the existing American population by sheer numbers. How about if the Chinese government sponsored the emigration of 50,000,000 of their people to key states?
At what point does a free society have to put its foot down and say that too many people are coming across, especially from countries that don’t share our values?
I think most americans are fat, lazy, and both physically and mentally weak. The only people weaker than us are the euro’s. The only hope we have as a civilization is the continued influx of people who actually know what it means to struggle to survive and who are willing to do whatever it takes to make their lives better.
That said, I’m not an open borders type person and I think we’re getting too many immigrants from one place which is skewing the whole “melting pot” scenario. We need more eastern europeans, asians, and africans to get our population the proper level of gray.
“At what point does a free society have to put its foot down and say that too many people are coming across, especially from countries that don’t share our values?”
Never. If those people from Saudi Arabia or wherever wanted to start imposing their values on you after they moved in, then you have a legitimate complaint. But if you suddenly get a bunch of weird neighbors, you don’t get to kick them out (or forbid your neighbors from selling/renting their land to them) because they do weird stuff.
how will an open border be compatible with our desire to bomb the fuck out of some country every 4 years?
‘Cause you know we sure as he’ll ain’t stopping the bombs.
A border that is that open would be child’s play for terrorists to get across.
I hate to break it to you, but people with a lot less organization, imagination, and resources than AQ get across the border all the time. You should ponder why there aren’t more terrorist attacks in the US.
(Hint: it isn’t our awesome border security.)
I know it’s unpopular here, but I’m with Mike T.
“never” is not an acceptable option. You misunderstand the question of cultural influence I think…maybe equating it with interesting new foods and religions? A different culture has different laws, and large groups will refuse to follow the American system (practical or theoretical). I wholeheartedly disagree that simply plowing a bunch of ppl together will, by way of the “melting pot” produce a great country, form of govt, etc. If you disagree with things like honor killings and slavery, you need to be awful damned careful which cultures you allow to dominate the landscape…and immigration law is supposed to be the primary method of doing that.
Question: How can a Libertarian State exist* with unfettered immigration? Since most people outside such a State would in fact be statists of some stripe, it would never last in the long term. At some point, the people in charge have to put controls** just to make sure their Libertarian values survive.
*Such as the Free State Project, but let’s just assume it is a sovereign nation.
**This does not mean zero immigration. This means that people pass tests on history, government, and culture in order to make sure the right people enter the country.
If you are worried about a truck from Mexico bringing a terrorist dirty bomb to the US, that has everything to do with foreign policy and not open borders. If you don’t want an open border to result in terrorism, leave other countries the fuck alone. Problem solved.
If you are worried about extremist muslims moving to America and taking over, keep in mind that most muslims who move to the US are not “Quran Beaters”, but moderates who came to America to get away from the extremist portion of their religion. I’m not worried about foreigners not sharing our values. It’s our politicians with shitty values that hurt us more than people with funny accents.
I also think that saying most Americans are fat, lazy, and mentally weak is what fat, lazy, and mentally weak people say when trying to prove a point.
#16-
‘You have to ignore many good cases from history to honestly believe that a mass migration of one population into another population’s land won’t have deep political and cultural consequences.’
please enlighten me on ‘many good cases…’
if we restore the constitution, that limits the negative influence fundamentalist cultures can exert over us. nobody can ‘take over’ if the constitution is respected.
uh, no!
“keep in mind that most muslims who move to the US are not “Quran Beaters”, but moderates who came to America to get away from the extremist portion of their religion”
This is the correct PC response, but it is totally wrong.
Better start reading up on what the immigration of Muslims into Europe is doing to the modern liberal way of life. Honor killings, increased sexual assaults, even female genital mutilation. Thats all going to increase in the US.
Hell, just a few weeks ago a “moderate” Muslim who founded a TV station to show Islam in a better light killed and BE-HEADED his wife. oh, but thats just domestic violence – could happen in ANY culture. yeah, right.
Honor killings, sexual assault and female genital mutilation (I assume) are illegal. I don’t see much interest in legalizing these. Perhaps things will change when the Moozlims take over. Hell, they’re probably want to date white women too.
They just arrested a white, blond med student for murdering a prostitute in Boston. I guess we don’t want any more white med students running around either.
@#22
Actually the best chance for a libertarian state would be for libertarians to align themselves with immigrants. The Hispanic vote is becoming increasingly important. The majority of Hispanics would immediately identify with whichever party becomes associated with open borders. With enough immigration, there may be a large enough libertarian coalition to seriously scale back the size and scope of government.
Ron Paul’s nativism is the main reason I could never support him. It’s hard to convince me your not a racist/xenophobe when you oppose big government except when it comes to keeping brown people out of the country.
That would be great! That’s a Republican I may be able to get behind. Sure, I may have a few disagreements with him on economics (as I do with Radley and commenters on The Agitator), as I still lean a bit left in that area. But, Johnson’s apparent lack of authoritarian tendencies is very refreshing. And anytime I hear that kind of candor coming from a politician, I want to hear more.
This interview was in 2000. Does anyone have any more recent evidence that his views haven’t changed? A reasonable person’s views on immigration could have changed greatly in the last 9 years.
I have been an open borders advocate for a long time. I live ~20 mi from the border. I don’t mind if people immigrate to the U.S. We should make it easier for them. But we should hold them all to a certain standard before granting citizenship. One of my pet peeves is US citizens that cannot speak English.
I learned German when we moved to Germany, integrated myself into their school system and studied my ass off to speak the language as a respectful gesture to the people of that country and for my own benefit.
Now that I live in Arizona, it pisses me off that our school systems bend over backwards and spend tax dollars to fund ESL programs that let students continue to use foreign languages in our schools as their primary form of communcations for years. Its tough to learn a second or third language, and no amount of coddling will make it easier and engender fluency at the same time. It also helps form the us vs them mindset for people that live here on the border.
Don’t even get me started on the Mexican citizens that bus their kids across the border every day to attend our schools, and claim a distant relatives address as their primary residence.
My point is generally, if you want to become a U.S. Citizen and enjoy the benefits of this country, great. But you need to commit to it and become an “American”. It defeats the purpose of coming here if you want to change us to be like that s***hole country you just fled.
““never” is not an acceptable option….I wholeheartedly disagree that simply plowing a bunch of ppl together will, by way of the “melting pot” produce a great country, form of govt, etc. If you disagree with things like honor killings and slavery, you need to be awful damned careful which cultures you allow to dominate the landscape…and immigration law is supposed to be the primary method of doing that.”
This is where we end up with the current fad of indisputable democracy worship. Yes, in systems where the majority gets to dispose of the property and lives of the minority as it sees fit (our current system), having a majority with repugnant morals is a concern.
But in a society that has accepted that it has no right to veto decisions by people to peacefully move from any location A to any location B, I would expect that society would have also moved past democracy worship, and people moving to location B and expecting to impose their values on the people living there would be met rather unkindly, majority or not.
Jindal / Gingrich 2012??
Google’s targeted ads are not having their finest moment right now. In my RSS reader, I see “Border Patrol Training.” I dare say that’s not a job most of your readers want, for more than one reason.
I knew some of Gary Johnson’s work. Other than supporting the death penalty (not really a small government libertarian position) I’m okay with him but I don’t see the party of Sarah “Wasilla’s first Christian Mayor” Palin and Chip “Magic Negro” Saltsman going for it. I think the GOP will play the same game in 2012, something like Palin/Perry, and keep themselves confined to the rural midwest and the more detestable subregions of the deep south. Which is a shame. A functioning multiparty democracy would be nice and we haven’t had one since ’68 or so.
@scott in phx, az: Here’s the difference beween honor killings and female genital mutilation in Iran and in the UK: When a man does that kind of stuff in Iran, everyone looks the other way. When a man does that kind of stuff in the UK, he gets prosecuted and goes to jail for a real long time.
That guy, the founder of the TV station who beheaded his wife? Yeah, he’s going to prison. You knew that, right? Or did you think that just because some muslim people emigrated to England and that’s what they usually do, it’s ok for them to commit murder?
No, I don’t think you believe that.
Anyway, feel free to back up your increased whatever and the other thing with information. I’m curious to see what that’s about.
Hunter, since your cognitive skills are a little sustandard I’ll repeat the point -
“keep in mind that most muslims who move to the US are not “Quran Beaters”, but moderates who came to America to get away from the extremist portion of their religion”
Wrong, Muslims coming to America, probably most, are NOT coming here to escape the extremist portion of their religion. They are bringing their violent, hate filled ideology of conquest with them. As the PM of Turkey recently said, there is “no moderate or extreme Islam, there is only Islam”. Belive me Hunter, it ain’t your moderate kind.
But you can hide your head in the sand if you want to.
But you can hide your head in the sand if you want to.
You may be right that the muslims that come here do not necessarily leave their extremist beliefs behind.
But as a commenter above observed, and as Hunter touches on, as long as the Constitution is observed, their extremist beliefs are forced behind, regardless of their extremism.
This is how a nation of laws weeds out the unpopular cultural influences and retains the popular ones.
In short, shawarmas… pretty cool man. Genital mutilation, not so much.
I thought this was about our southern neighbor, anyway.
All this fear about honor killings and such… Wake me when Saudi Arabia puts together a hockey team… mmkay?
Cheers.
#30 ElScorcho
I agree, but say we only allow the ones who actually can speak English to stay here. Where will we send the other 270,000,000 people?
Pogue,
“as long as the Constitution is observed, their extremist beliefs are forced behind, regardless of their extremism”
and we’re doing that by building footbaths for Muslims in airports and PRIVATE prayer rooms in public colleges for Muslims (imagine the howls if Souther Baptists demanded that)?
Well, what happens when judges start deferring to Sharia law for Muslims (as they are doing in the UK)? How long after that until CAIR starts advocating that non-Muslims be judged by Sharia also when the other side is a Muslim. hmmm, can’t happen?
I wouldn’t have thought it would happen in the UK either.
You don’t have much to fear from honor killings. For Muslim women in the US, a bit more.
and we’re doing that by building footbaths for Muslims in airports and PRIVATE prayer rooms in public colleges for Muslims (imagine the howls if Souther Baptists demanded that)?
And what does that have to do with the Constitution?
When private industries willingly and without coercion decide to offer products and/or services to individuals and/or segments of the population, though most individuals and/or segments of the population deem these services unusual and/or threatening, I call that FREE MARKET baby!
After all, you don’t have to wash your feet at an airport. (Although, maybe you should. Especially if you’re that honkey I was sitting next to on my way to Boston last month who decided it wasn’t rude at all to take off your shoes so as I can smell your rancid feet.)
But if my tax dollars are going to pay for ANY religious service, howls or no, I will condemn it, and call for the heads of those responsible. And I often do, since that often happens.
One nation, under God… so on and so forth.
Well, what happens when judges start deferring to Sharia law for Muslims (as they are doing in the UK)? How long after that until CAIR starts advocating that non-Muslims be judged by Sharia also when the other side is a Muslim. hmmm, can’t happen?
Admittedly, I don’t know much about the cases of judges in the UK deferring to sharia courts. But from what I do know, it takes the agreement of both parties to defer, right?
And if either parties are unwillingly deferring to sharia courts but are made to through intimidation, then that would constitute a civil rights violation, would it not?
Which would be illegal.
You don’t have much to fear from honor killings. For Muslim women in the US, a bit more.
You’re right, I don’t have much to fear.
But I’m quite sure that these Muslim women have a much better chance of avoiding an honor killing in the US, thanks to the dominate culture condemning it, not to mention the US laws that forbid it.
And no amount of shawarma shops can change that.
Again, wake me when Abdul Yabba Dabba Doo gets appointed to SCOTUS. And admittedly, it’s not out of the realm of possibilities.
Cheers.
scott in phx az
“They are bringing their violent, hate filled ideology of conquest with them.”
You are right Scott. Everytime I turn on the tv I see yet another beheading taking place here in the US. Happens all the time. Rolling eyes….
We are a headless people now. Just of a different sort. Something tells me you haven’t met that many muslims. Just a hunch.
Scott
“You don’t have much to fear from honor killings. For Muslim women in the US, a bit more.”
So you care about Muslims then?
Damn you Radley, you always do this to me. you get me all excited about some potential presidential candidate and then the Republican party shuns him because he believes in liberty, he gets like 1% of the vote, and we are still living in tyranny.
:(
But thanks anyway I guess.
I’m not sure how I feel about the whole “jobs americans won’t do”. I started off doing those jobs. I worked on a farm, as a dishwasher and various other unskilled minimum wage jobs starting off. Not everyone is going to go to college. I did and I find myself competing intensely with immigrants and offshore workers for my job. Whats worse is I started as an entry level computer programmer and worked my way up in the company. Today my company does not hire entry level programmers. That work gets sent to Mexico. Where is the entry point into the workforce for people leaving college today? For people not going to college, how are they going to compete with someone who is willing to come here, stay in an apartment or house with a bunch of other people with almost no living expense so they can send the money back home?
You talk about jobs Americans won’t do. I make good money doing what I do. Any day my job could get sent off shore. Does that mean I am better off because some guy in Mexico is doing the job I won’t do? Are you saying it is a low skill job and that I should get a higher skill set that is worth more? Like what? Brain Surgery?
Elroy. You sound like a communist. You are complaining about competition in the work place? So that’s a bad thing?
I’d support Johnson over Sanford, but I think Sanford has a much better chance of winning the nomination. I’d certainly feel much better about Sanford than many of the other people that getting talked about a lot- Palin, Gingrich, Jindal…
As long as Mr. Johnson personally pays me back the several thousand dollars I spent to have my wife legally immigate here then I’m fine with it.
@scott in the land of the arpaios: So let me see if I’ve got it. Your premise is:
If the muslims are allowed to immigrate to America, they’re going to do all kinds of crazy things that we don’t do now, like honor killings, throwing acid in womens’ faces, etc., and they will get away with it because their belief is religious in nature. We will be powerless to stop it.
Your reasons as you have presented them are as follows:
–because I said so
–because the Prime Minister of Turkey said so
Forgive me, but I’m going to need a bit more to go on if you want me to follow.
The difference is that in our culture, this individual has been caught, and will likely spend the rest of his life in jail.
While the beheading incident isn’t a great example because it was peformed here and I’m sure the guy will get put in jail. A better example would be the woman in Saudi Arabia who was raped, and rather than go after the men who raped her, they sentenced her to 200 lashes.
So I’m guessing the type of culture that has a woman beaten for “enticing men to rape her” is what people here in the U.S. might be a bit fearful of. Regardless of whether their fears are grounded or not, and even if one disagrees, it’s not too difficult to see where they are coming from.
While it’s true, our constitution should offer us protection, based on recent events, it seems like that might not always be the case.
PC thought runs deep evidently even in Libertarian circles.
I haven’t noticed Dearborn (Little Iraq) transforming into a mullah-run dystopia where you can’t walk down the street without getting your head or your clitoris or both chopped off, but maybe I just don’t get over to that side of Michigan enough.
Also, remember when JFK ran all his decisions as president by the pope? That sucked.
Why no follow up to “It wouldn’t be a problem if they were legal”?
The hell it wouldn’t. Isn’t the implication that “they” like many other Americans, would be getting health care and other services AT NO COST to themselves, but definitely at cost to society. Isn’t that what the questioner meant? No one should be denied emergency medical care, but it is axiomatic that what you subsidize, you get more of. We don’t need any more people on the dole. If they are legalized then employ them, insure them, and tax the hell out of them just like everyone else that works legally in the US.
“Well, what happens when judges start deferring to Sharia law for Muslims (as they are doing in the UK)?”
I live in the UK and that has never happened. Not sure where your getting your “facts” from.
Hayden -
see http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/crime/article4749183.ece
If Gary Johnsdon is being honest in this interview, then he would be a great candidate for president. He understands the border region and would approach it with common sense and not hysteria. Obama is just ignoring it, and letting states like Arizona become a police state. Way to lead. (NOT)
But I have to ask myself…why is Johnson a Republican? That makes him suspicious.