TheAgitator.com
Police Department in America’s “Most Livable City” Gets a Couple of Tanks
Tuesday, April 14th, 2009Courtesy of the Pentagon’s surplus program.
And frankly, it looks like that’s the last thing they need.
Hey, Dems. Here’s a policy proposal for you: How about ending these Pentagon giveaways to local police departments? This stuff was designed for the battlefield. It has no place on America’s streets, being used against American citizens.
I would like to see statistics as to just how often officers in Portland, Maine have had to “force their way into barricaded building.”
“This stuff was designed for the battlefield. It has no place on America’s streets, being used against American citizens.”
But this is the new America.
I was going to make a comment comparing our cops to the Gestapo, but have decided not to do that anymore. It’s just not fair to the Gestapo who, as far as I know, didn’t have tanks.
“This stuff was designed for the battlefield. It has no place on America’s streets, being used against American citizens.”
It can’t be put any more truthfully and succinct as these two sentences.
Clearly US police departments need to up-armor their vehicles, given how often they’ve been attacked with IEDs lately.
Technically, for them to be tanks under modern day usage of the term, they have to have a fully traversing turret with a gun.
Among other things, I happen to be a tank nut.
I mean we get all bent out of shape when someone mistakenly refers to a semi-automatic weapon as automatic or when someone misrepresents a rifle as being an assault rifle. We should be careful not to refer to an armored personnel carrier as a tank.
That technicality aside, I can’t see how any police department in the country can really justify an armored tracked vehicle. These are nothing but the machines for the macho. You know. The guys who view themselves, not so much as peace officers, as gladiators.
if there was ever a time to say its now-WTF????
Dave Krueger,
I have to quibble with your definition. As a former redleg, I have always been irritated with people assuming that self-propelled howitzers are tanks, but by your definition they would be. (Or maybe not, depending on how you define “fully traversing”.)
Back to the topic, an M113 that has not been up-armored (I’m pretty sure those offered in the surplus program are stock) can be penetrated by AP 7.62×51, or any number of common deer or moose hunting calibers if a full metal jacket round is used instead of a soft-point lead round.
No, according to my understanding, the howitzers I think you’re referring to would not be tanks. They would be self-propelled artillery. “Fully traversing” means a turret that rotates 360 degrees. While I’m sure there may be people who disagree with it, I didn’t make up that definition.
Regardless, I doubt that anyone in the military would generally confuse an M113 APC with a tank. The Bradley is the closest thing there is to a armored vehicle that fulfills both roles and is referred to as an infantry fighting vehicle. The Bradley would not be a match against other tanks.
If I recall correctly, the militarization of our police forces was supposed to be in response to being threatened with the same military hardware that the cartels are only just now acquiring.
The cartels didn’t start investing in said hardware until AFTER Presidente Calderon began to ‘fight the DrugWar like a real war!”as so many armchair DrugWarriors have wanted to do. Well, now they’ve gotten their wish, and as a result the bad guys are getting their hands on the very weapons the DrugWarriors were so afraid of long ago.
This is not a ‘which came first, the chicken or the egg’ question. The upswing in cartel violence began after the paramilitarization of our police forces. THE INCREASE IN VIOLENCE IS IN RESPONSE TO THE MILITARIZATION OF THE DRUGWAR. Might as well try to put out a fire with gasoline.
Talk about a ‘self-fulfilling prophecy’…
The tanks are to be used against “right-wing extremists” – like libertarians.
There was something on the news last night (CNN I think) about a rise in right wing militant extremists. They were saying that the Oklahoma City bombing really scared a lot of people away from the movement, but now that’s apparently wearing off.
They didn’t mention libertarians, though. We’re so few in number and so ridiculed by the mainstream parties that most folks group us right along side alien abductees and Raelians. We’re assumed to be far more dangerous to ourselves than others. Militia groups are another matter. They stockpile guns and subscribe to the Anarchist Quarterly. It’s only a matter of time before the government feels compelled to go in and kill them all to save the children.
Tanks roaming American streets remind me of a belief I have…
No way anyone in America has the apples to block a tank like the Chinese dude (while never dropping his grocery bags!).
If anyone in America did, they’d be split in two by .50 caliber rounds fired by their fellow Americans (just following orders, sir).
Someone has lost that revolutionary spirit! But, it found someone else.
Any time Dave Krueger posts this many times, I check out his website and remind myself that his day is probably going better than mine. Mostly because I’m sitting here looking at my Raelian membership card sitting on top of several David Boaz books and getting ready to ask Kang and Kodos to lube the probe next time. It’s like he’s inside my head (but shouldn’t the tinfoil block that?)!
The M-113 is an Armored Personnel Carrier produced first in the 1960′s.
Its armor is aluminum, and only designed to protect the crew and Mech Infantry squad from small arms fire and artillery shrapnel.
A .50 calibre armor-piercing round will penetrate the hull……..
Boyd,
I would stand in front of a line of tanks in the town square. While likely I would piss myself, I would do it.
However, I freely admit I do not have the chutzpah to immolate myself like the Buddhist monks in Vietnam. Those guys are heroes (for their cause).
I salute you, CRNewsom!
Still gotta hold the groceries, tho!
I get the sense there’s another Kent State brewing. We have a lot of the ingredients.
Sorry, Boyd, my lovely wife does the grocery shopping. I think she would be mad if I took some from the pantry to participate in a protest. If I weren’t shot (by the police/military), I’d never hear the end of it.
Can I carry a bag of tools, I am in charge of the tools.
Yeah, the OK bombing was stupid.
He would have been a folk hero had he chosen his target better, perhaps an IRS building but definitely not somewhere with a childcare facility as he did.
Even though the M-113 is not a true “tank” and merely an old “APC” I’m willing to let the Pentagon give me a couple to help (cough) reduce the defense budget spending.
Heck, I’ll even accept a couple real tanks if it will help.
Given that America is a nation of criminals, just look at the percentage of the population in prison or on probation for evidence of that, giving APCs to the police is a wise and prudent decision. How else can the manifest criminal tendencies of the majority of the population be repressed.
Also this should be a much needed economic stimulus for the Prison/Criminal Justice industry. In these tough economic times we must do everything we can to ensure full employment in every industry. Especially an industry as vital to our national character and well being as this one is.
#11 | Dave Krueger said
“Militia groups are another matter. They stockpile guns and subscribe to the Anarchist Quarterly. It’s only a matter of time before the government feels compelled to go in and kill them all to save the children.”
ROFLMAO… but not really.
Technically speaking, the M113 is not a tank but it is a fully tank-tracked armored vehicle designed purely for the battlefield (it was the most widely used armored vehicle in Vietnam) It has no place on the streets of America, either literally or figuratively.
Oh, sure, people complain that they are a bit “too much,” acknowledges PPD Capt. Ted Ross. But he insists that the vehicles will “reduce the exposure to danger for officers who approach … hostile or armed confrontations.”
Right, until they arrive at the scene and have to get the fuck out.
Unless they plan on shelling homes – which could very well be the idea, who knows. The police department is fighting a war (on Drugs), after all.