TheAgitator.com
Detained by TSA
Thursday, April 2nd, 2009in town for a conference, a director of Ron Paul’s Campaign for Liberty is detained by TSA at the St. Louis airport because when asked to explain why he’s carrying $4,700 in cash (it was proceeds from book and ticket sales at the conference), he asks the agents to tell him what law requires him to do so. He managed to surreptitiously record his conversations with TSA officers on a cell phone. The audio is infuriating.
Aren’t such inquiries about cash fairly routine?
They may be routine inquiries, but are you _legally_ required to answer them? The TSA employees in this recording never say you have to answer (strongly implying that you don’t have to).
I was disturbed by the statements of the Fox people at the end when they put up the white guy’s face and said “Is that the face of a terrorist?” as if to imply that terrorists are dark and white, clean cut people are not terrorists. Horribly simplistic, erroneous view.
Kudos to the man for recording it. I would never even think to be that quick with my phone.
Add this to another long list of ridiculous TSA complaints. Mr. Balko, I’d love to hear your thoughts on the full body scanners that are currently being tested in certain US airports. It brings up all sorts of morality issues: Will children go through and essentially be photographed nude? Who will be the first person to save and unblur a celeb photo and send it to a tabloid? How is this not a gross violation of our civil liberties?
When is someone going to start raising the standards for hiring these flunkies? Last time I was at the airport, half of these TSA “professionals” were just standing around talking about the TV show “LOST” and giggling like teenagers. These are the people protecting our country from another 9/11 attack? Come on now.
I forgot to mention that the TSA actions were horrible as well.
#1 | qwints
‘Aren’t such inquiries about cash fairly routine?’
they’ve become a routine part of asset forfeiture- which is why I believe they were threatening him with bringing in the DEA.
I’m in St. Louis and could find no local reference to this story. These tsa idiots sounded like they were following the govt. thug 101 playbook!
I wanna know what kind of phone that was- that’s brilliant!
I’m still trying to find that “if you have nothing to hide” amendment to the constitution.
That shit is really getting old. It probably pissed the LEOs off that he didn’t just roll over and die as about 99% of their victims would have.
If the full body scanners could replace all of the other ridiculous security theater, I would be all for it. I am really not worried even a little bit about strangers seeing me naked. If everyone could see everyone naked, I am convinced the world would be a better place. The rest of the pointless shit they put you through is far more dehumanizing and offensive.
Regarding the money, I don’t think you are legally required to explain why you have any amount of cash. If it is over 10k, you have to declare it or something, but that is all. Of course that wont stop them from stealing it from you using civil asset forfeiture.
A) I love the irony.
B) Among other things (like typical threats/scare tactics, “bring the DEA in here” etc), I like the standard “if you’ve got nothing to hide, you’ll just tell us” BS. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7TSDUHhPIw&feature=PlayList&p=868190E140656886&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=19
This is a perfect example of how to speak the police. “Am I being detained or am I free to go”. I’d put my $$$ the FBI agent let him go because of his insistence on not making a statement.
I love how the TSA pigs (I have no problem with that word for these ‘bad apples’) threaten to take him down to the police station. It’s ingrained in our minds, even in law abiding minds, the police station means danger and a bad time, and it’s not a place you want to go.
From a practical standpoint, this gentleman probably saved his cash by refusing to answer. Refuse to answer any questions, their “suspicions” are empty, and they will have a hard time filling out the seizure record. Start telling the truth, suddenly the liberty thieves will say “he acted nervously, and we felt he was lying, so we took his money”.
Will he now face charges for recording these idiots without their knowledge?
Evidently our civil authorities now detain citizens without even knowing by what authority they’re doing so – just on their own say-so, I guess.
Good for him for recording it and for being polite and calm as they verbally abuse him. I hope this guy sues for a gazillion dollars, but the sad thing is it’d have no effect – most people would just answer their questions because they assume a guy with a badge is entitled to do whatever he wants. I weep for this country.
The FOX piece mentioned that we only heard a minute or two of the recording. Any chance someone knows where we can check out the whole thing?
Like others have said, this is straight out of Cop Talk 101. The message is clear: “Whether you broke a law or not, I can make your life miserable. Play nice or get fucked.”
Also, I wholeheartedly agree with Omar and others in applauding the decision not to make a statement. Given our current culture, saying nothing is always better than saying something. Guilty, innocent, whatever. Just keep your mouth shut at all times.
#3, I disagree that the “is this the face of a terrorist” question is inappropriate. Yeah, really smart terrorists would in fact recruit such people, if they could, but come on. Most terrorists still look and act like non-apple-pie-American types; you’re basically supporting the TSA’s random approach that ends up searching 8-year old white girls etc.
Another thing, it’s interesting that a plainclothes FBI agent shows up and suddenly he’s free – I’m sure they checked the guy out, what he does, etc, realized that not only were they wrong to detain him, but that they’d probably get hit with a nice lawsuit to boot.
The last time I was at Denver International Airport they had an audio message playing in the TSA line that said something to the effect “You know that you are not a threat, now prove it to us” I said to my wife “What ever happened to innocent till proven guilty? What a crock” with in ear shot of one of the officers, next thing I know I have to take off my sweat shirt (it was freezing outside) and had to go through the “random” invasive search. I guess I was just another person having to prove my innocence.
I’m disgusted by the fact that the TSA tried to get him to answer questions by threatening him with having to explain the money he had to the DEA.
The implication, of course, being that the TSA just wants him to answer a couple questions, but if he insists on asserting his rights, they’ll get someone in there who will trample all over those rights and deprive him of anything that even resembles due process, and not even think twice about it.
Land of the free, and the home of the brave.
#14, ever wonder what Timothy McVeigh or Eric Rudolph looked like in their younger years?
[i]“come on. Most terrorists still look and act like non-apple-pie-American types”[/i]
Tim McVeigh.
There are lots of good reasons those goofballs should have left the kid alone. That he’s young and white aren’t among them.
This sort of thing is exactly why I refuse to fly commercial anymore. I will fly private charter or dash across country in my car (yes, with all 6 kids in tow) before I will expose myself to this crap.
It does tempt me to start operating on a cash-only basis, though, just to tick off the powers that be.
Glad he had the balls to do this. I’d like to think I would have too. But in the end, I think I would have answered just so I could catch my plane.
And that’s just what they were thinking. This was not about safety. It was about power. Give some people a uniuform and a badge and they think they have a license to do anything.
Many TSA agents are decent enough. Many are 300+ pounds and would be too lazy to even do this to a passenger. The rest are assholes.
The TSA is the equivalent of the Atlanta police force. A lot of people join to do good, and they are judged incompetent based on the actions of a few jerks.
Speaking of cash-only. Buy your plance tickets with cash. That puts you in line for “special security screening.”
It’s especially good to do this if you are flying during busy times and would have to wait in a long security line.
Pay cash and you go to the front of the line and get through very quickly. They just ask you a couple extra questions and might put you in one of those things that shoots air are you.
Beats waiting in the line though!
The sad part is this is the kind of shit McVeigh was pissed about.
Nothing makes me happier than to tell an officer “I don’t have to answer that question” or “no you may not look through my car”. They get real shitty, real fast. This kid did a great job staying strong and polite.
This is slightly off topic, but I was at Logan in the security line behind an off-duty TSA agent. He was talking with his on-duty co-workers, mentioned he was flying out to get some training and said “This friggin’ sucks. I feel like a passenger.”
This morning I wrote on my “freedom baggie” with a Sharpie. It said, “THIS BAG DOES NOT KEEP US SAFE.” The TSA didn’t find that funny either.
I didn’t get detained though, just told I shouldn’t write on the bag.
If he was so suspicious and possibly dangerous as the assholes were trying to maintain, why the fuck didn’t they pad him down? Wouldn’t they have found his phone and that it was recording? Geniuses all. Those guys were bored and that’s all there is to it. They kept saying he was playing games. Playing games? Since when is it a game to want to know what your rights are? I submit that it was the LEOs that were playing games.
Full audio of the encounter: http://www.sendspace.com/file/gm11wt
How long until “check points” appear on the highways?? They are here now, as “sobriety” checks. All they need to do is add the “terrorist screening” step. Welcome to the USSR.
TSA Agents have NO arrest authority. None.
That is why there are always local police at the security checkpoint.
If TSA detects what they suspect is contraband or suspicious behavior, the local policeman conducts the search/questioning/arrest.
I think the young Ron Paul supporter taught the police a lesson.
#14 I think many people on ehre would argue that whatever you want to say about random stops and screens at the airport, searching people based on their appearance as it relates to ethnicity or race is wrong and very un-liberty. However rational it might seem to some, it does not outweigh the how wrong it is in principle.
My question in hearing/seeing this is who trains thiese idiots? Why were these guys so clueless in responding to someone asserting his rights? Why did they become so emotional and excitied (”you’re acting like a child”)? Why didn’t they answer his questions (no sir you are not legally required to answer, but your refusal might, in combination wiht other aspects of your behavior, constitute suspicion allowing us to escalate this situation to another agency” – not a great answer, but at least one that indicates knowledge and professionalism).
Obviously, whatever training these guys receive it’s pretty light on the legalities. Not to mention the likelihood that the training probably describes people who assert their rights in perjorative terms.
And yes, I am ashamed. I’ve often defended my agency here on your blog when I disagreed with critics, but conduct like that is completely indefensible.
ROFLMAO!
“I’m done with it.”
Who cares what the TSA ass hat is done with?
“Are you from this planet?”
NEW Professionalism on display in the face of a very respectful citizen who explained exactly what he was doing: getting clarification of his rights.
TSA can’t tell you if it is law or not because they don’t know the law. They know only bully tactics because the are only bullies and nothing else.
Steve Bierfeldt is in the early running for Clever Person of the Year.
Guys, first this is just another bit of confirmation that EVERYONE needs to have something that can record at least sound, if not video. Go get a pocket recording device or make sure your cell phone can record. You never know when it might save your bacon.
Secondly, you NEED to know your rights, particularly the 4th amendment stone cold. If you know nothing else, just shut up and ask for a lawyer. If they want to take you downtown and arrest you, fine. Just adds another zero to your lawsuit.
@craig: the only problem is that lawsuits don’t really ever fix the problem. The $$ comes from the government, not the individual idiots that violated your rights. Sure, you get $1M or $10M or whatever, but it’s really a pointless exercise.
#29 | Nick T-
‘Obviously, whatever training these guys receive it’s pretty light on the legalities.’
They don’t look like they draw ‘trainable’ people. These are entry level jobs, except with power. Minimal education, lots of ‘fuck with people’ power= lots of headaches.
These people shouldn’t even be in charge of brooms.
#32 | andyinsdca-
I agree that the people who’re idiots should have to pay, but it’s not pointless if people start realizing they can win the fight and be rewarded for it. More people will fight and maybe they’ll get the message.
#34:
If people ever started suing and winning regularly, it wouldn’t take long before legislation was passed that says you can’t sue TSA agents, or the agencies, or anyone involved with your unlawful detainment/property confiscation/whatever.
Maybe I’m just a cynic…
I echo those who note that he probably saved his earnings by keeping his mouth shut.
There is a lot to be annoyed about in that tape. High on my list is the implication that carrying cash is somehow cause for suspicion. That’s crap. Cash is 100% legal and it poses zero threat to that flight. If TSA has some evidence that he is carrying something that is a direct threat to other passengers, crew, or the plane, then they should establish that and be done with it. I’m tired of this “he had something that might be evidence of a crime” baloney.
And, as noted, TSA are not cops. Their role in the whole security theater drama is to maintain the illusion that flight can be kept totally safe from dangerous things, not to play junior detectives and entrap people for carrying things they think may be suspicious somehow, but pose no threat to the flight. That includes legal items like cash and illegal (but not dangerous) items like drugs, etc.
It seems like, if the TSA drones can’t explain how carrying cash is a threat to flight safety, they should shut the hell up and get back to work.
“This sort of thing is exactly why I refuse to fly commercial anymore. I will fly private charter or dash across country in my car (yes, with all 6 kids in tow) before I will expose myself to this crap.”
What a silly comment. Hate to break it to you but there is no right to travel by commercial airplane.
99% of the people go through TSA checkpoints every day without an issue. I’ve gone through 9 of them in the last month. In one case before boarding the plane they performed a random check of passenger’s carry on baggage. All passengers remained polite as did the TSA crew. I was one of those who’s carry on bags were searched (interestingly they only searched my gym bag and not my backpack). It was over in minutes and we were on our way.
Now there are real issues with TSA agents over stepping their bounds and acting like thugs. There are real issues in how the TSA performs security checks and whether or not they are effective. But then again there are real issues with passengers acting like total idiots. Always remain polite is my motto. It gets you to your destination.
andyinsdca “@craig: the only problem is that lawsuits don’t really ever fix the problem. The $$ comes from the government, not the individual idiots that violated your rights. Sure, you get $1M or $10M or whatever, but it’s really a pointless exercise.”
Absolutely! And that is the flaw that keeps any meaningful reform of this from happening. It will always be pointless unless the guys doing the bullying are held personally accountable somehow. If not a lawsuit then fire their dumb asses!
BTW this is OT, but related to police abuse. Did anyone see the Scott Loper video that was a few videos down on the YouTube scroll? Holy crap! Arrested in Canada by Canadian police he caught in a narcotics scam and then held and tortured for four years!
(I don’t know how to get a link out of the embedded player, but a search turned up this link to the video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVHCPtuY3d8.)
tim @ 37
Have you gone through O’ hare yet? Most of the TSA types there are loud, rude, inner-city types with room temperature IQs. They have one tiny iota of authority and they think that it gives them the right to scream at, berate, and insult passengers.
What would have been the downside of the TSA guys saying, “yes, you are legally required to answer that question?” The answers would have been inadmissable? Maybe in this case, since there was a recording of the conversation, that would be true. But in all the other cases, the officers could just say that the information was volunteered, and everything gets admitted into evidence.
That’s right, Tim. Just be polite, keep your head down and show them your papers when asked. If you’re not going anything wrong, you have nothing to fear.
tim,
You do not have the right to travel on an airplane, but because TSA folks are government agents, your 4th amendment rights do come into effect and are implicated at all times. Also, the comment you call silly does make any statement about whether or not you have the right to fly in a plane.
Lastly, I don’t see what your point about passengers acting like idiots has to do with this post. Is carrying 4700 dollars acting like an idiot? Was refusing to answer the questions posed, consistent with his constitutional rights, iditotic behavior by this gentlemen? Is the solution to iditotic behavior detentnion and interrogation? What is your point?
@Tim: I don’t understand your objection to solinox. Where exactly did he even mention a “right to travel by commercial airplane”? What are you referencing with that comment?
Also, you’re right in a sense: being polite and kowtowing to so-called “authorities” (aka the TSA) is the quickest way to get on your plane. Of course, giving up our right to privacy would be a great way to catch criminals. Does that make it the right thing to do?
Listen, if you have no problem with how the TSA has treated you, then great. We respect your right not to complain. But please don’t call those of us who are offended “silly”. Incidents like this are far from silly.
Wouldn’t carrying large amounts of cash be a reason for you to bypass security? Really, if you were going to crash the plane, wouldn’t you have left your cash at home?
“What a silly comment. Hate to break it to you but there is no right to travel by commercial airplane. ”
You’re right, there is no “right” to travel by major commercial airline. Therefore, if I feel that doing business with those companies (and therefore submitting to the associated governmental agencies) would violate my right to privacy and my right to be free from unreasonable search and seizure, then I am still free (so far, anyway) to withdraw myself from that system, remove my financial support, and seek alternative modes of travel. It is a choice between principles and convenience (charter planes are more expensive, cars are slower and more dangerous).
As long as enough people choose convenience, the system will be perpetuated. If enough people stop using it, though, eventually it will stop. Hopefully. Hey, I can dream.
If enough people stop using it, though, eventually it will stop. Hopefully. Hey, I can dream.
Did you see the parody car ad ‘The Bailout’? http://tinyurl.com/6cm5ke : “You wouldn’t buy our shitty cars… so we’ll be taking your money anyway.”
I suspect the same would happen with the airlines: If we stop buying seats, we’ll just end up paying them to fly empty.
Yeah, kind of like Amtrak. *sigh*
I’ve been successfully boycotting the airlines for years due to this bullshit. Sadly it’s only a matter of time before my schedule requires a flight :(
Out of curiosity, what exactly *can* the TSA compel you to answer in order for you to get onto a flight? I don’t have a very good understanding of this…
So glad to have this thread.
This past Sunday I was flying back from LA to Denver with my wife and kid (21 months). Like all parents who fly nowadays, we have one of those small coolers that we carry with us to keep his milk, yogurt, and other snacks cool. Since it contains more fluid than is allowed, every time we have to get it tested by TSA. In Denver, they let you at least you handle it and give it to them to tell you which container is which. That might not sound like much, but in LA not only did the initial TSA Halfwit tell us that none of our food or medicine (totalling about $50) was allowed, but he also handled our sick child’s food and milk containers with the same grubby plastic gloves he used on every other container. (At least he won’t get sick!)
We protested, since it was less food and milk than we had packed on our initial flight out to LA, and that had passed TSA back in Denver with no problem. He then told us, “This is more food than you need for such a short flight.” To which we both said, “Who are you to tell us how much food our child needs for a flight?” I wouldn’t care what Dr Spock told me about how much food my kid needed, but to put this in further perspective, the guy was about 22-years old and didn’t seem to have much “kid knowledge” to put it mildly.
We made enough stink that the supervisor came over. The moron original TSA agent didn’t think we needed the Coldpack and wanted to throw that out. He didn’t realize it kept the milk cold until the super told him that was the case, I shit you not. The original guy further wanted to throw out most of our food (and the Benadryl for our allergic kid!!!!) and protested, “We have to stop a certain amount of stuff per day.” Awesome. Throw out perfectly compliant and good food to fill your quota. The supervisor “let” us go with everything but one yogurt.
How can we give authority to such morons? What would our kid have eaten if we were delayed on the runway? What if the child has even more severe allergies than ours? What if the kid just eats more than others? I should be able to take a container of yogurt on a plane from Miami to Seattle just to throw it out unopened if that’s what I damn well want to do.
I probably should have made more of a stink, but we had a sick kid in an airport and just wanted to get him home. I have my dissertation on my laptop and couldn’t work without it, so I didn’t want to have it seized/stolen. These bullies rely on factors like this to make totally capricious and arbitrary decisions that affect people’s lives. What scumbags.
They were invoking the threat of the DEA, implying asset forfeiture of the cash. In other words, they were pointing to the DEA as the bad cops, implying that they, in contrast, were the good cops (although they’re not cops at all).
Wow. That’s quite a variation on the good cop/bad cop routine. Maybe we should re-name it the “bad cop/worse cop” schtick.
@38 and 32, andyinsdca
Guys, the cops often DO pay:
http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/05/541.asp
Tuesday’s decision also ordered the police to pay $35,000 in compensatory damages. The arresting officers — Patrick Fetterman, John Rigney, and Gregg Riek — must also each pay Robinson $2,000 in punitive damages.
-Long story short, man videotapes cops, cops arrest man, cops find wallets 2k lighter.
and
http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/05/541.asp
Wilson admitted that he heard and ignored Greeves’ warning that someone would be arrested if the truck wasn’t moved. He said he was “startled and dumbfounded” when he was cuffed, and upset and angry that Greeves was interfering.
Officer Greeves has been ordered to pay $18,000.
-Long story short, cop arrests firefighter at accident scene for impeding traffic with his firetruck and not obeying his lawful orders, cop pays 18k. PERSONALLY.
The problem is that so many people are weak minded, don’t know their rights, and are satisfied just to get out of jail or to be released unharmed. So many people want letters of apology and crap like that. How can you maintain a civil rights lawsuit, if you fail to understand that your civil rights have been violated.
Screw that. Keep your apology. I want your money. I am going to hit you where it hurts, in the wallet.
The main problem and reason why the cops get away with it is because people let them. Cops that do this crap have little fear of civil suits because people so rarely do it. When cops are more worried about manhandling someone and getting sued, they’ll straighten up.
@Nathan A,
Any law prohibiting 4th amendment suits would be ruled unconstitutional for violating the 4th amendment. There’s a legal principle that “for every right there is a remedy.” This means that if your rights are violated, the court must find some reasonable remedy for you, and can’t just ignore it.
A #39 Tim
My, my, my…you’re just a tiny little sheep aren’t you?
craig, good stories. But, I think your second link is the same as the first. The second story is at:
http://www.kmov.com/topstories/stories/kmov_localnews_080213_firefighterarrested.bd01f42f.html
And, I agree that, whenever possible, a misbehaving officer (or any government representative) should be personally named in any civil action.
The TSA guy says, “If you have nothing to hide, you can tell us what it’s for?”
That summarizes law TSA’s philosophy of liberty. Unfortunately for us, it also epitomizes what most citizens and politicians think as well.
I seriously wonder if they will prosecute him for the recording. They could easily claim that the recording gives away security procedures that are not meant to be public. The only thing standing in their way is their strategic estimation of whether they could get away with it. It always comes down to what they feel they can get away with. They follow no other rule and are loyal to no other principle.
If this causes them enough embarrassment, it could lead to mandatory searches prior to detainment. They will look for way to avoid this in the future and it won’t be by acting less intrusive.
Personally, I think this entire thing happened because they just just can’t tolerate someone who doesn’t cower before their authority.
I applaud Steve’s ability to stay calm and collected throughout. I damn near snapped just listening, good for him.
#25 You should have immediately asked for a supervisor and reported the TSAhole. Then filed a complaint form on him for civil rights violations.
The one mistake he made was calling the scum “sir”.
The concept that they might not have the lawful authority to ask the questions they were asking was completely beyond their mental grasp. Not just difficult, but totally impossible. Like teaching quantum physics to an amoeba.
“I seriously wonder if they will prosecute him for the recording. They could easily claim that the recording gives away security procedures that are not meant to be public. ”
I think that would be an even longer shot than trying to convict him for carrying cash. Recording in public is generally exempt as there is no expectation of privacy. The theory goes that if you don’t want to be overheard/recorded, keep your mouth shut I read one case in MA where a guy was convicted based on the state’s wiretapping law, but that is the ONLY one.
Craig, I was thinking that once they took him back into their office, he was no longer in public, What you say makes sense, but I never cease to me surprised at the kind of stuff that happens in the name of security these days.
Most wiretap laws require one party to the conversation to be aware of the recording. There are some, however, that require you to say if you are recording, which can be achieved by simply saying “this conversation may be recorded.” It’s a fun thing to say all the time, just in case.
CD @ #53: The moron original TSA agent…further wanted to throw out most of our food (and the Benadryl for our allergic kid!!!!) and protested, “We have to stop a certain amount of stuff per day.”
Of all the sordid idiocy under discussion in this thread, this impresses me as the most ridiculous and revealing.
How can we give authority to such morons?
I guess we stay in practice by ritually giving even more authority to even bigger morons in Washington every couple of years or so.
“There are some, however, that require you to say if you are recording, which can be achieved by simply saying “this conversation may be recorded.”
I would refrain from that unless in MA, lest your recording disappear.
“How long until “check points” appear on the highways?? They are here now, as “sobriety” checks. All they need to do is add the “terrorist screening” step. Welcome to the USSR.”
Hate to tell you this but Homeland Security through Customs & Border Protection has been operating suspicionless checkpoints on public highways for quite some time now. You can see videos of my encounters at one such checkpoint over the course of the past year at:
http://www.youtube.com/CheckpointUSA
This checkpoint is over forty miles North of the border with Mexico and runs East-West, not North-South. Additionally, the Border Patrol claims they use such checkpoints as an opportunity to look for terrorists, weapons, felons, narcotics and aliens.
Terry,
I was thinking of those check points when that person made the statement. I knew there had been “border patrol” doing this, miles away from the border. It makes it look like we already have authorized a police state!
[...] don’t know where I saw it first yesterday, but Balko has what was easily the Spark of The Day* yesterday: you have to hear the recording of TSA goons detaining a man at Lambert (St. Louis) and [...]
Two questions: what cell phone models will record like this?
And more importantly, where is the definitive source for what the TSA can and cannot do?
Thanks all.
# 65 Dave and #66 SusanK
I have always believed that it was OK to record a conversation as long as you were a participant in that conversation.
I visited the TSA blog and asked, in the comments, whether we would be seeing anything about this incident on the blog. I invite you to do the same.
http://www.tsa.gov/blog/
I’ve just become a liberal! Just kidding, but the TSA fools, and the FBI fools and the DEA fools think they run the country: oh wait they do.
I hope they fire these guys.
As I listened I could tell the uniformed officers were deadly serious. You’ll hear a TSA supervisor say that these men did a great job, exactly as they were trained, but that’s not true. It’s weird that the government uses the Stanford expierement to it’s own advantage. In other works; the government lets idiots with no college education attempt to Stanford the suspect in to making a mistake before an FBI agent that has a brain come in and clean up the mess.
[...] Ron Paul staffer asked why he has so much cash at the airport. Detained and harassed. Oh, staffer recorded audio on his [...]
[...] Ron Paul staffer asked why he has so much cash at the airport. Detained and harassed. Oh, staffer recorded audio on his [...]
I am trying to sympathize but can’t. If it was me, I would have shown the receipt, proven the money to be legit and gone on my merry way instead of antagonizing these guys further.
That being said TSA is a joke and about as relevant to preventing terrorism as Glade refills are to dusting your house.
As someone pointed out above, it’s a good idea to know your rights The 4th and 5th Amendments applied here. But even having a decent knowledge of said rights but *acting* like an expert will probably get you far with idiots like this. They are fueled by authority and stupidity. Act like the authority on the constitution or on your rights, and watch them shrink away I bet.
Ask them questions like whether the 4th Amendment applies to this conduct, state that you know your rights and use some random sentence from the BoR, and see where that gets you.
Terry,
You are a hero. No question in my mind, a real life fucking hero. One day, I’d like to shake your hand.
-Omar
Z: “I am trying to sympathize but can’t. If it was me, I would have shown the receipt, proven the money to be legit and gone on my merry way instead of antagonizing these guys further.”
At what point do you say “enough!” Do we wait for the gulags? Random house searches? Has the Constitution become just an anachronistic piece of paper?
Z: I am trying to sympathize but can’t.
I don’t get the impression that Bierfeldt is going for sympathy here. I consider what he’s doing to be a public service that documents and warns of a growing danger to safety, now, as well as freedom.
I would have shown the receipt, proven the money to be legit and gone on my merry way
So would many of us. That’s the biggest part of the problem.
TSA officials, police, and even bankers are charged with the duty of identifying suspicious activity. Carrying almost $5,000 in bills is not illegal, but it definitely falls within the category of drawing suspicion, justifying the questions, though not by itself enough to justify detaining him. I like Steve Bierfeldt’s responses and think he handled himself wonderfully, but most of you commenters, on the other hand, are ridiculous. If he had an Arab or Hispanic face, you probably would not have thought twice about the TSA officials pressing him like that. In fact, many of you probably would have supported incarcerating him until we found out everything about him.
83, 84: The part that bugs me is that the guy seemed (in tone or words) to go out of his way to antagonize the TSA- while recording them- probably so that he could get his fifteen minutes and of course jury award. He seemed like the type of smarmy character that’s now hawking supposed videotapes of Ashley Biden snorting coke: a cockroach out for himself. Great causes can be undone by shady advocates.
Z,
What exactly gives you that impression? I don’t see anything close to that at all. I mean, you are way off. He just asked if he was legally required to answer the questions. He kept his words to an absolute minimum and his tone was at all times calm and respectful even though he had the opportunity to be a real wise-ass like with his driver’s license retort.
I’d be interested to hear whether you think the TSA agents were antagonistic? They called his behavior childish and said it was a game. They threatened him, called him names and berated him for not answering their questions. Do you feel a common civilian should be held to a higher standard of non-antogonistic behavior than a government agent and so-called professional?
If so, can I invite you to go start your own country?
BP, ever visited this site before? First time caller?
Dave P: “what cell phone models will record like this?”
If you have an iPhone, there is a free application called iTalk from Griffin that works pretty well to turn it into an audio recorder.
Most cell phones have a “Record a Note” function that does this.
#87- as I said above I think the TSA is about as useful as boobs on a warthog. They are a symptom of America’s unwillingness to face the reality that terrorism is perpetuated, almost exclusively, by a certain segment of the world Muslim population that wants to party like its 699.
Now back to our hero: Choice bits “The young man runs the campaign for liberty.” And he just happened to have such an encounter? Cute. Moving on to the tape itself: “They wanted to know who he was, who did he work for, how did he get the money that he had on him.” All are legitimate questions for guys traveling through airport with thousands in cash. Of course those questions may also have legitimate answers. “My name is Z, I work for X, and I just won this money on the ponies. Here’s my bet receipt.” See? No need to be a dick about it.
“85 to 90% of his encounter was recorded”- so he says. This is a recording made and timed by a vested party. Its not like a patrol car dashboard camera that just keeps rolling no matter what the show is.
So lets hear what he has for us.
“What do you do for a living?”
“Not relevant.” Nothing about the constitution, our rights, liberty, lawyers etc. If I gave that answer while traveling with thousands in cash I might as well stamp “crook” on my forehead.
“Yes it is.” From their perspective, sure.
“Am I legally required to tell you that?”
“Well I tell you what. Go pick a fight. You may not be legally required to tell me that but you will be legally required to tell the police officer.” Maybe he is wrong, but he is sure getting pissy. As I said many times, most TSA guys are thugs looking for power. Why antagonize them in the least communicative manner possible? Unless of course you’re spoiling for a fight/book deal/interview/lawsuit.
“How much money is it?”
“I don’t know the exact amount Sir.” More polite but still evasive. How many of you carry huge wads of cash and not know how much it is? Can I hang out with you?
“$4700?”
“Yes Sir.”
“Why do you have all this money?”
“Am I required by law to answer this question?” Again, not encouraging from the TSA’s point of view.
Does he have the right not to answer? Sure. Can he reasonably expect to be treated the way he would if he gave polite, clear, honest answers? No. Is this guy a hero? Not from where I’m sitting.
Z, I asked you to point out where he was being antagonistic and you couldn’t. Your response basiclaly boiled down to not answering the questions is per se antagonistic-ness and should be criticized, which, from where I’m sitting, means you view these rights as abstract constructions that should never be brought to bare in real life.
The questions are, doubtless legitimate. The suspicion is understandable, all that and a bag of chips, but your point was that this guy was “antogonistic” and you fail to explain it other than to point out that he did in fact assert his rights. The TSA clowns in this case were uninformed unprofessional antagonistic and stupid. Do you disagree with that? How is that justified in the face of a citizen acting within the law? Did they have a right to detain this person? What is worse, not answering questions from government idiots who behave like thugs, or using your government authority to unlawfully detain a person?
In other words, why the fuck are we talking about what the civilian could have done differently?
Also, if you watch the video he explains why he felt like not explaining what he did for a living. It’s a pretty damn good reason, actually. Not that he needs one.
Z: I think the TSA is about as useful as boobs on a warthog. [...] As I said many times, most TSA guys are thugs looking for power. Why antagonize them in the least communicative manner possible? Unless of course you’re spoiling for a fight/book deal/interview/lawsuit.
If the TSA is, as you characterize it, useless and thuggish, then why not welcome the efforts of someone brave enough to resist and fight it even at the risk of antagonizing its agents when they have him isolated and outnumbered?
“TSA officials, police, and even bankers are charged with the duty of identifying suspicious activity. Carrying almost $5,000 in bills is not illegal, but it definitely falls within the category of drawing suspicion, justifying the questions, though not by itself enough to justify detaining him.”
Ok, see this is why people need to have an understanding of the 4th amendment.
The sentences above are incompatable. If the citizen’s actions were suspicious, then that begs the question “of what?” What, exactly is he doing that is so suspicious? what crime do you suspect him of?
Surely you suspect him of more than just carrying large amounts of money through the airport, so exactly what is it?
Furthermore, you can’t just be generally suspicious of someone to detain them, you have to have reasonable articuable suspicion of some involvement in crime to detain a person at all.
Even you admit that there was no justification to detain him, which suggests there is no RAS, but then you say there is RAS of SOMETIHNG just because he has some cash on him. Nobody can say what that something is, but they are threatening to arrest him again, for SOMETHING they’ll fill in the blank later…
Without the detainment, they can’t stop him to ask questions. They can ask all they want, but he is free to go, and at no point does he have to answer the questions. RAS or no RAS, detained, arrested, or free to go, it doesn’t matter. All he has to say is “i do not wish to be interrogated, direct all questions to my lawyer.”
Go read up on the 4th amendment and terry stops, and then you might have something to argue about.
“They wanted to know who he was, who did he work for, how did he get the money that he had on him.” All are legitimate questions for guys traveling through airport with thousands in cash. ”
Ok, fine we can agree to disagree that they are legitimate questions. I’ve got a legitimate answer: Fuck you. (not directed to the poster). Again, you are free to ask all you want. I am free to decline to answer. Pull me into a room, and you are going to get sued.
“No need to be a dick about it.” No need to be a sheep about it either.
“You may not be legally required to tell me that but you will be legally required to tell the police officer.” Maybe he is wrong, but he is sure getting pissy. As I said many times, most TSA guys are thugs looking for power. Why antagonize them in the least communicative manner possible? Unless of course you’re spoiling for a fight/book deal/interview/lawsuit.”
He IS wrong. You never have to disclose any of that info to a cop, ever. Why cooperate and get harassed more? As far as spoiling for a lawsuit, it isn’t my duty to keep you from violating the law, they seriously have like 2 or 3 amendments they need to be mindful of, and they can’t even do that. If you are going to willfully violate my rights, I’ll be stamping defendant on your forehead.
Linda- the guy does not strike me as someone out to liberate you and me. He strikes me as someone spoiling for a fight and the fame, riches, etc etc that come from it. I admit that is a subjective interpretation.
Nick- Watch the video again. Listen to the conversation, especially between minutes two and three. It’s a charade: 90% of his answers are a variation on the theme that he is not required to answer that question by law. But consider: is he? And this is the part that gets me- true, his boss voted against the patriot act but his boss, a Texas Republican has been utterly ineffective in stemming the statist tide which his party and his region within his party have been advocating for since at least 1976- the year, incidentally, when the good doctor endorsed Ronald Reagan. Sure it’s easy to be on the outside pissing in but what did he or his boss do, really do, really accomplish, over the last nine years in particular, to make the constitution respected and the war on terror a true war of values?
But, Z, leaving aside questions of Bierfeldt’s motives, haven’t his actions at the very least helped to expose some of the thuggishness and uselessness that you perceive in the TSA? I don’t understand why you wouldn’t applaud that even if you don’t particularly care for Bierfeldt’s demeanor or methods. Are people who question and resist oppressive authority more irksome to you than “thugs” wielding that authority?
Z,
What are you talking about? Yes, he answers the same theme. And yes, it’s an act. But it’s an act civil libertarians, lawyers, and Miranda rights keep telling us to use to cover our buts and keep ourselves out of undeserved trouble:
“If the police detain you, tell them you have nothing to say and ask them if you are free to go. If they have no reason to hold you, they have to let you go.”
Situations like this are the reason the 4th and 5th Amendments were written. You have a right not to talk. The authorities DO NOT have the right to keep you without reason. If they have no reason, and you don’t give them reason (by explaining), then they are legally bound to let you go. Not only is that legally correct, it’s morally correct.
And Ron Paul?!? His boss isn’t a perfect libertarian so…something? So, er, screw the rights of people who work for him?
My boss is a socialist. I don’t think it makes me a hypocrite that I don’t feel morally bound to surrender my land to the collective.
Z,
Can you like clarify the balls off of the last two thrids of your second paragraph. Who cares whether Ron Paul and is politics have been remotely successful? What does that have to do with this discussion in the least? I’m seriously baffled over here. I might need a diagram.
How far are you going to go to stick up for people you admittedly call thugs? If I were in Mr. Bierfoldts (sp?) shoes I’d have been a much bigger dick about it because the people around me were thuggishly, oppressively, and spine-crushingly-dickishly violating the living hell out of my rights! I’d probably insult their intelligence and make wise-cracks. Would I be being a dick? Would my conduct be particularly justified? Not really. Would it make an iota of sense to examine the situation and think that *I* was the problem? No. Not in anwyay not ever.
The rules against being a dick are really just guidelines, and don’t have to be followed all too closely. The Constitution on the other hand…..
Your interpretation of this guy’s intent, is not only completely baseless but its also irrelevant. You can’t explain it or support it, and that’s why you don’t respond in substance to these arguments. Just save us all the time and admit that you love authority and power and you view rights as unnecessary since we should all just cooperate! Yayyy!
Z,
Also please don’t go saying that you really do love rights and think they super-awesome! Because then I’ll just ask you to reconcile that statement with your characterization of one’s exercising his 4th and 5th Amendment rights as “a charade.”
I’ve stood up to those thugs a number of times. One time, in front of a huge group of people, one of them demanded to know if I was threatening him. I demanded to know if he was threatening me in an even louder voice. You could almost see his balls shrivel.
I just don’t fly anymore.
It’s Transportation Security Administration – get it right if you’re going to complain.
I don’t understand. Why would anybody object to be treated like a citizen of the Soviet Union or Nazi Germany? I mean just because we have our rights and all doesn’t mean we shouldn’t give them up when those in charge of us ask us too. Because…like, we still have them, at least written down somewhere huh?
Good day! We (TSA Blog) just posted a statement on this incident. Click here —> http://tinyurl.com/cqvg4o
Thanks,
Blogger Bob
EoS Blog Team
If you are ever in this situation, the pertinent question is, “Am I under arrest?” If you are under arrest, immediately say, “I invoke my right to counsel.” They cannot question you until you have a lawyer at the point.
The assertion of one’s rights is not “suspicious” that rises to the level of “reasonable cause” justifying arrest. Thus, every official speaking on that tape is guilty of a crime called “official oppression”. And the young fellow in question needs to file a grevance with their employers and he needs to contact the FBI so they can conduct an investigation for official oppression.
The only way to stop this kind of evil is to start calling the cops down on them.
The TSA has a blog post up about it:
http://www.tsa.gov/blog/2009/04/incident-at-st-louis-international.html
I would have no trouble answering TSA questions in any way that helps them to perform the task of providing safe secure transportation.
The problem is that this was not about that. It might possibly have been about drugs, but transporting drugs or drug money has nothing to do with TRANSPORTATION SAFETY. I don’t want these assholes doing this stuff. I want them doing the job they should be doing: making me safe.
Finally, I don’t even think it was about drugs. The only reference to drugs was their threat to take him to the DEA guys. They just felt they had the right and authority to pry into any aspect of this guy’s life that they wanted to. People almost universally cave in to their intimidation and that’s what they’re used to. Anything else is incomprehensible to them.
In reality, it’s not even the fault of these individuals, although they could certainly have been several orders of magnitude more intelligent about the issue of Constitutional rights especially since that’s supposed to be an integral part of their goddamn job. But, if you want to blame someone, blame the idiots who run the TSA and your dumb ass elected officials who set the rules these guys operate by.
If airports are already so secure that these morons have time to harass people for no productive reason related to security, then they are obviously overstaffed.
Yes, the TSA is useless and thuggish. Everyone knew that before this tape came out. Everyone also knew but were too polite to admit that the TSA and the WoT and the PATRIOT acts were all exercises in government control and propaganda, designed for disguising the reality that terrorism is mostly perpetuated by a segment of a population whose oil rich arses we have been kissing since at least the 40s when Arafat’s favorite mufti was one of Hitler’s towel boys.
That said, here is a guy who, through connections and powers not available to most of us could have done more to prevent this charade instead of now trying to benefit from it. And make no mistake: this little cockroach is not standing up FOR you. He is standing up to GET OVER you.
Don’t believe me? Take this little test. Go to your bank, take out few grand, then fly. Then do exactly what he did. Then complain to him and to his opportunistic parasitic boss, the fake gadfly of Galveston. Then let me know how they stood up for you.
P.S.: I HATE HATE HATE Ron Paul. (As if that wasn’t obvious.) I don’t hate him because of the libertarian stuff he discusses. I hate him because he doesn’t believe in or act on 80% of it, futile media-ready crusades notwithstanding, and because he gets in bad with the crud of the right wing: fellows who would happily put you in a concentration camp if they had half a chance.
We had a concentration camp here in Wyoming: Hart Mountain. Japanese were interned there. I think that it was a democrat-named Roosevelt-who sent them there.
Then there was a guy who jailed political dissenters-I think his name was Woodrow Wilson. Also a democrat. Huh.
I tend to think of right-wingers as separatists, as opposed to the collectivists on the left. And I pretty much think you are talking out of your ass.
The plain clothed fed that told TSA and St.Loius Pd to release this young man was in fact a DEA agent.
I saw the gold badge at the airport.
Pinandpuller where were you over the last 8 years? Ever heard of a fine resort town named Gitmo? No? Had a peek at what passed for campaigning in 2004? That bald fellow with the pacemaker and the shotgun? Used to talk about how we should all be very very very afraid because unless he is in a position of power everything will go down the drain and we’ll all live in TERROR?
It’s a shame. If the GOP still retained some resemblance to the party of Lincoln and later Goldwater, I may even be a member.
Z (refering to Bierfeldt): #94 – the guy does not strike me as someone out to liberate you and me. and #106 – And make no mistake: this little cockroach is not standing up FOR you.
Any individual who stands up against flagrant abuse of government power and violation of his own personal rights benefits me if through no other channels than illumination of the threat and inspiration to resist it. Altruistic or heroic intention is not required.
Regarding his connection with Ron Paul, whose bid for presidency I did not support, so what? No one should be harrassed by the TSA for carrying cash or any other item or substance that posses no threat whatever to the safety of passengers on a plane. Good on anyone trying to make that point.
#110: That’s a nice way of looking at it and if he was an average person without connections- a Linda or a Z- I might think “Meh the guy is a little smarmy and cops an attitude but he has a point.” But he is infinitely better connected and positioned than Linda or Z. He could have at least tried to prevent some of this. Did he?
Now just because the TSA is useless and the laws put in place are more to control us, rather than to keep us safe, that doesn’t mean there should be no laws at all. I think it’s perfectly reasonable to ask a guy carrying thousands of dollars in cash where it came from. All money is not created equal and there is a difference between “won it on a bet” and “check out this missile.” But as I have said earlier, it would do a world of good for us to focus our energies on opening our eyes and understanding that hummers with 50 gallon tanks and houses set on 3000 acres in the middle of nowhere wont help us kick the Saudis, Russians, etc to the curb.
It might be reasonable if they have some concrete reason to believe the money is for a missile. Otherwise, it’s none of their fucking business and they shouldn’t be asking.
Even aside from the rights issue, making everyone prove that their money is not being used for terrorism is massively ineffective and inefficient. It’s like questioning everyone in town to find out which one has a gun and plans to commit a murder (and hoping he freely admits to it as well).
The fact that money can be used to buy illegal or dangerous things is not sufficient reason to justify the tracking of everyone’s money, but that’s not how the government sees it. The utter ineptitude of their reasoning and their willingness to eradicate any remaining semblance of privacy is stunning.
It’s as if the absolute last people on the planet that you would want in charge of your freedom are, in fact, in charge of your freedom.
“It might be reasonable if they have some concrete reason to believe the money is for a missile. Otherwise, it’s none of their fucking business and they shouldn’t be asking.”
True. Of course that takes time, effort, training, education and the honesty to discriminate intelligently- to know who does what and why. But that is not what you see. What you see is a jobs program to keep thugs and dropouts off the street while bending over backwards to prove that my Japanese exchange student neighbor is every bit as much a potential threat as Mr. Abdullah from Syria who has no bank account but is carrying ten grand in cash and has only a one way ticket.
@ Z
So you originally complain that the guy was causing unnecessary trouble and spoiling for a fight. Now your argument is that he wasn’t causing enough problems since he was only standing up for his own rights and not the rights of the multitudes.
May i present the theory that you are the one spoiling for a fight, because you dislike the man’s boss?
I would like to know who decided it was going to be TSA’s job to look for money and drugs, and whatever else they wanted. Was this, government intrusion, not to make airline travel SAFER?? How can it be safer when they are not concentrating on weapons and bombs? It seems as they are more worried about how much money you are carrying and where you work. They were questions I would not answer. They have no baring on whether or not I will have a safe flight. And who is most likely NOT to crash the plane? A guy with nothing in his wallet, or a guy carrying $5,000? All this just adds up to the fact that I will not be flying commercially again.
The responsibilities of the TSA need to be decreased if they have time to hassle someone over money. It should only matter if the questions they ask have to do with flight safety! Otherwise, they need to butt out!
Z
Yes, I have heard of Gitmo. That’s just the way they do things in Cuba (throw people in jail indefinitly without trial).
Funny you should bring up the party of Lincoln-another guy who threw dissenters in jail and suspended Habeus Corpus.
I think my main point to you is don’t be so blind as to attribute loss of civil rights to just right wingers. I hope you don’t try and take any transfat through JFK.
Why isn’t someone at American Express using incidents like this to market Travelers Checks? If the police confiscate them can you call up and report them as stolen then get your money back?
#115- Yes that is the way things are done in Cuba but I thought the whole point of the WoT was to show that we are better people with better values so to suddenly kiss Cuban Commie rear ends is not helpful. And yes, Lincoln did suspend HC. We can argue over its merits (I don’t know the circumstances so I can’t defend or oppose it) but that was basically half of United States containing large numbers of people who though that their way of doing things, that is to say holding black people hostage and exploiting their labor and, in the case of many women, their bodies, was so wonderful that it outweighed the constitution and the unifying primacy of the federal government in applying that constitution. (The alternative is anarchy which is less fun than it sounds. BTW how come that when people invoke “states rights” its almost always done to defend restricting the rights of the individual? Hell nobody who was frothing at the mouth to ban gay marriage is rushing to defend medical marijuana laws. The only area in which these people support expanding individual rights is when it comes to carrying guns.)
I think it’s perfectly reasonable to ask a guy violating the Fourth Amendment where it came from.
#49 “I suspect the same would happen with the airlines:”
Look again. We’ve been bailing out airlines since the Fifties.
Look, I don’t want to spoil anybody’s rant here, but I got stopped by TSA with live ammunition in my carry-on. And I’m pretty damn scary. And they were pretty damned scared.
And they were perfectly decent and nice about it. They apologized for the inconvenience, and I made my flight.
There are some American citizens actually working there.
Well Z if you have the God given right to carry a gun its a lot harder for people to exploit you and your labor and the like. Most gun laws put in place in the south were to keep black people from getting them. To own a handgun in Missouri for the longest time you would have had to take two references to the local sherrif and get his approval-not usually a problem if you were white. Can you imagine a stipulation like that put on abortion? Not really, Planned Parenthood has the express lane for minorities.
#119 historically true on both counts and also not relevant to Gitmo. As I said before, I may have been a Republican up to about 1964. However, you can show your memo to Republicans circa 2009 and ask why they never talk about individual liberty except when it comes to waving guns around. The government, since at least 1980 but especially since 2000 has gone out of its way to stamp out individual freedoms except for when the threat of losing those freedoms could be harnessed to manipulate the masses. I’d like the Republicans to talk about individual liberty a lot more consistently: liberty doesn’t just mean buying Uzis and keeping your kids segregated from the darkies yanno.
“As I said before, I may have been a Republican up to about 1964. However, you can show your memo to Republicans circa 2009 and ask why they never talk about individual liberty except when it comes to waving guns around.”
Truth be told, republicans since the 80’s have NOT been for gun rights.
Reagan banned the use of full auto weapons.
G HW Bush created the much laughed about gun free zones.
GW Bush stated that he would re-authorize the Assault weapons ban if congress presented it to him.
Clinton/dems get the gun control label, because they signed on to the Brady bill…which was proposed by a Reagan, republican staffer…
Not sure why Republicans get a pass on this and Dem’s get a fail. They are all really working together in bipartisan spirit restrict your right to own a weapon.
#121- because the republicans are very good at sounding a certain way and the democrats, clintons excepted, are not. The Republicans have been very good at pretending to espouse and advocate a certain set of values: rural or “lightly” suburban/exurban, predominantly white, predominantly Christian/Southern Baptist, predominantly southern/midwestern. A value system where guns are good (but militias aren’t), free speech is to be protected as long as its popular, religious and racial minorities are tolerated if they know their place, gays are relentlessly demonized along with immigrants and (hypocritically) Muslims and anyone who asks for government funding and actually needs it. This last one really burns me up because while individuals are relentlessly hounded for their welfare/social security etc etc drawdowns, corporations are given a free pass to suck the government tit and evade taxes with impunity while using the world as their race course towards the lowest paid workers they can find.
Ahh the TSA. My favorite story is when they held up my mother in LA as she was coming back from a cruise in Mexico. Apparently the duty free scotch she bought as a gift for a friend who took care of her cats while she was away was verboten. Sealed, bought n paid for etc. but just not “safe”. She is told she can’t go on with it and TSA guy moves to take it off and away (to put it in his locker no doubt). Mom tells him, hold on, give it back to me then and I’ll come back through security without it. Somewhat reluctantly the agent gave her back the scotch and she went and found garbage can and dumped the whole bottle out.
Back in, 04 or so I was in San Jose airport and one agent actually asked me what my glasses repair kit was. It had various screws and nosepads in a small plastic tube with a small screwdriver. The idiot actually responded, “Good answer!”. The guy himself was wearing prescription glasses….
As for the money amount there Z, should I be stopped when I was traveling to the UK and France for vacation last fall and had 2000+ in cash on my person and travel bag? Rates were fluctuating every day and BofA isn’t always, say the most competitive with their credit card exchange rates.
The money in his wallet came from *me.*
I was playing a game with Ron Paul’s cronies to see how much cash it would take to subvert the Fourth Amendment.
http://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2007/06/paris_hilton_or_mary_winkler_f.html
A discussion of poor people who are put in mental institutions in lieu of imprisoning them. I don’t know if they show up in the standard imprisonment stats.
I wish he could have worked in something like, “I’m not carrying money. Theses are federal reserve notes.”
It’s funny that these GEstapo types are fond of the ‘if you have done nothing wrong, you have nothing to fear’… until you take THEIR photo.
Why not try to encourage EVERY liberty-minded person to ask – politely – to snap photos of the TSA goons and anyone else who turns up. If they refuse, start asking them why they have something to hide; why they are subject to different laws to the rest of the livestock… and so on.
First of all, I love some of the morons’ replys, like the one about the judge being a bigot because of his comment about the “white guy.” The way I read it, he was referring to his baby face, not his race. It takes a genuine bigot to read race into his statement. Second, every member of the military and everyone elected to office swears an oath to a piece of paper, the U.S. Constitution, NOT “the president” or even “the government.” You people are willing to give up everything for “security.” You need to go back and read your history books, start out with pre-Nazi Germany in the 1930’s. Even when you are in court, accused of a crime, YOU ARE NOT REQUIRED TO TALK! So now, you need answer some flunky’s questions about whatever? MONEY DOESN’T BLOW UP! It isn’t a threat! And $4,700 ain’t a great deal of money anymore (thanks to the liberals in Congress). And these tough guys with the idle threats and foul mouth ought to be fired. If they represent the legitimate law enforcement profession, I’m a hamster. And if the moron who said he was with the FBI wasn’t, he should go to jail for impersonating a federal agent. Oh, and I AM a professional law enforcement officer.
[...] Assuming that Hendrickson is really a collector of antique warplanes who’s guilty of improper filing of a form, and not a terrorist, impounding and threatening to destroy his unique bird does seem rather excessive. One assumes most legitimate pilots would be given a deficiency notice and told to correct their filings. But in the battle between TSA bureaucrats and world terror, the notion of excess often goes out the window. [...]
stop complaining guys. TSA is just doing their job. yes, TSA agent should be suspended and retrained for his bad language. TSA agents have to equally profile everyone. this “white guy” could have been dangerous. sure he looks okay, clean cut, well spoken etc. but everyone no matter how they look, has to be vetted to make sure they are okay to travel. i have travelled the world, and have gone thru other countries version of TSA and let me tell you my co-americans, that we have it much easier. in other countries, customs and their versions of TSA can legally kick your ass, put you in a hole underground, and basically treat you like shit. in some other countries, people dont have the rights like here in the states. this guy for even challenging the govt (TSA representatives) would have been beaten in some other countries. but here he can complain, “your violating my rights, im going to sue” only in america can you say this kind of quote. so com’on people travel abroad, get out of the states, and you will see some realy ugly stuff.