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	<title>Comments on: Puppycide</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.theagitator.com/2009/02/10/puppycide-18/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2009/02/10/puppycide-18/</link>
	<description>It rankles me when somebody tries to tell somebody what to do.</description>
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		<title>By: old</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2009/02/10/puppycide-18/comment-page-1/#comment-241100</link>
		<dc:creator>old</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Feb 2009 08:13:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=12035#comment-241100</guid>
		<description>#49 &#124;   Cynical In CA &#124;  February 12th, 2009 at 11:34 am

&lt;i&gt;You da man, old. Inspiration. I’ll report back on my findings too.&lt;/i&gt;

Please do.

Also, as Ernest Hemingway wrote in &lt;i&gt;The Sun Also Rises&lt;i&gt; “Direct action,” said Bill. “It beats legislation.”</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#49 |   Cynical In CA |  February 12th, 2009 at 11:34 am</p>
<p><i>You da man, old. Inspiration. I’ll report back on my findings too.</i></p>
<p>Please do.</p>
<p>Also, as Ernest Hemingway wrote in <i>The Sun Also Rises</i><i> “Direct action,” said Bill. “It beats legislation.”</i></p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Cynical In CA</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2009/02/10/puppycide-18/comment-page-1/#comment-240816</link>
		<dc:creator>Cynical In CA</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Feb 2009 15:34:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=12035#comment-240816</guid>
		<description>You da man, old.  Inspiration.  I&#039;ll report back on my findings too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You da man, old.  Inspiration.  I&#8217;ll report back on my findings too.</p>
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		<title>By: Aspasia</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2009/02/10/puppycide-18/comment-page-1/#comment-240647</link>
		<dc:creator>Aspasia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Feb 2009 00:30:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=12035#comment-240647</guid>
		<description>Gods. What is wrong with them? Why is the first response to shoot everything that isn&#039;t in a uniform?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gods. What is wrong with them? Why is the first response to shoot everything that isn&#8217;t in a uniform?</p>
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		<title>By: Spleen</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2009/02/10/puppycide-18/comment-page-1/#comment-240461</link>
		<dc:creator>Spleen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Feb 2009 16:59:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=12035#comment-240461</guid>
		<description>Am I correct in assuming that a cop would have shot the dog in this instance?A cop would have shot the dog long before it left its own yard.

Looks like if you own a dog, installing surveillance cameras might be a good idea.  The only way these cops get what&#039;s coming is if the video shows up on YouTube.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Am I correct in assuming that a cop would have shot the dog in this instance?A cop would have shot the dog long before it left its own yard.</p>
<p>Looks like if you own a dog, installing surveillance cameras might be a good idea.  The only way these cops get what&#8217;s coming is if the video shows up on YouTube.</p>
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		<title>By: Gac</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2009/02/10/puppycide-18/comment-page-1/#comment-240358</link>
		<dc:creator>Gac</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Feb 2009 11:44:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=12035#comment-240358</guid>
		<description>Nah, PETA would only get involved if they skinned the pup to make a stole or barbecued him afterwards...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nah, PETA would only get involved if they skinned the pup to make a stole or barbecued him afterwards&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: markm</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2009/02/10/puppycide-18/comment-page-1/#comment-240356</link>
		<dc:creator>markm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Feb 2009 11:40:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=12035#comment-240356</guid>
		<description>PETA? They&#039;d rather have the dog dead than &quot;confined&quot; as a pet.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>PETA? They&#8217;d rather have the dog dead than &#8220;confined&#8221; as a pet.</p>
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		<title>By: andy</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2009/02/10/puppycide-18/comment-page-1/#comment-240342</link>
		<dc:creator>andy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Feb 2009 10:02:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=12035#comment-240342</guid>
		<description>I think PETA needs to get involved with this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think PETA needs to get involved with this.</p>
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		<title>By: OneByTheCee</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2009/02/10/puppycide-18/comment-page-1/#comment-240297</link>
		<dc:creator>OneByTheCee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Feb 2009 06:35:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=12035#comment-240297</guid>
		<description>#1 &#124;  ALowe &#124;  February 10th, 2009 at 3:16 pm 
wrote:

&quot;At least the police department had the courage to admit that they made a mistake.&quot;

COURAGE???!!!

If there was any true courage displayed by these officers, the dog would still be alive!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#1 |  ALowe |  February 10th, 2009 at 3:16 pm<br />
wrote:</p>
<p>&#8220;At least the police department had the courage to admit that they made a mistake.&#8221;</p>
<p>COURAGE???!!!</p>
<p>If there was any true courage displayed by these officers, the dog would still be alive!</p>
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		<title>By: old</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2009/02/10/puppycide-18/comment-page-1/#comment-240284</link>
		<dc:creator>old</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Feb 2009 05:16:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=12035#comment-240284</guid>
		<description>#32 &#124;   Cynical In CA &#124;  February 10th, 2009 at 5:43 pm

...

&lt;i&gt;In the meantime, I ask, among all you dog owners out there (and I’m not one), are there any willing to do more than cry your eyes out at the next puppycide outrage due to be posted within the next 72 hours or less?&lt;/i&gt;

&lt;a HREF=&quot;http://blackarmor.com/Vest/dog.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;The K-9 Partner Vest&lt;/A&gt;
&lt;a HREF=&quot;http://www.protectpolicek-9.com/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Arizona legislators on House Bill 2448&lt;/A&gt;
&lt;a HREF=&quot;http://www.ajc.com/pets/content/pets/stories/2008/07/22/tony_stewart_vest.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Tony Stewart&lt;/A&gt;
&lt;a HREF=&quot;http://kdka.com/steelers/Roethlisberger.police.dogs.2.712530.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Ben Roethlisberger&lt;/A&gt;

I will be having some good conversations down at the dog park when Old Top is sporting something to look like one of &lt;a HREF=&quot;http://blackarmor.com/images/K9_1.gif&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;these.&lt;/A&gt;

Good luck Cynical In CA.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#32 |   Cynical In CA |  February 10th, 2009 at 5:43 pm</p>
<p>&#8230;</p>
<p><i>In the meantime, I ask, among all you dog owners out there (and I’m not one), are there any willing to do more than cry your eyes out at the next puppycide outrage due to be posted within the next 72 hours or less?</i></p>
<p><a HREF="http://blackarmor.com/Vest/dog.htm" rel="nofollow">The K-9 Partner Vest</a><br />
<a HREF="http://www.protectpolicek-9.com/" rel="nofollow">Arizona legislators on House Bill 2448</a><br />
<a HREF="http://www.ajc.com/pets/content/pets/stories/2008/07/22/tony_stewart_vest.html" rel="nofollow">Tony Stewart</a><br />
<a HREF="http://kdka.com/steelers/Roethlisberger.police.dogs.2.712530.html" rel="nofollow">Ben Roethlisberger</a></p>
<p>I will be having some good conversations down at the dog park when Old Top is sporting something to look like one of <a HREF="http://blackarmor.com/images/K9_1.gif" rel="nofollow">these.</a></p>
<p>Good luck Cynical In CA.</p>
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		<title>By: Aresen</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2009/02/10/puppycide-18/comment-page-1/#comment-240258</link>
		<dc:creator>Aresen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Feb 2009 04:01:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=12035#comment-240258</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;
#40 &#124;  Bob Weber &#124;  February 10th, 2009 at 10:50 pm 
Take the guns away from the cops and issue them vacuum cleaners if they’re so afraid of dogs.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Uh, no.

Kirby salesmen wouldn&#039;t make any sales if they shot a dog every time they came to someone&#039;s door.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>
#40 |  Bob Weber |  February 10th, 2009 at 10:50 pm<br />
Take the guns away from the cops and issue them vacuum cleaners if they’re so afraid of dogs.
</p></blockquote>
<p>Uh, no.</p>
<p>Kirby salesmen wouldn&#8217;t make any sales if they shot a dog every time they came to someone&#8217;s door.</p>
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		<title>By: Bob Weber</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2009/02/10/puppycide-18/comment-page-1/#comment-240221</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob Weber</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Feb 2009 02:50:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=12035#comment-240221</guid>
		<description>Take the guns away from the cops and issue them vacuum cleaners if they&#039;re so afraid of dogs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Take the guns away from the cops and issue them vacuum cleaners if they&#8217;re so afraid of dogs.</p>
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		<title>By: Shay</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2009/02/10/puppycide-18/comment-page-1/#comment-240190</link>
		<dc:creator>Shay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Feb 2009 01:59:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=12035#comment-240190</guid>
		<description>&quot;The large mass seen by the heat sensing helicopter could have been Mr Fernandez doing some garden equipment maintenance.

You can bet when Joe Cop opened that shed if he had seen Fernandez standing there with his 14 inch shears Fernandez would be dead right now.&quot;




You&#039;re right Mack, Fernandez would have been shot. And then they would have covered it up by smearing his reputation and saying he assaulted a police officer with the shears so the officer shot in self defense because......and here&#039;s the ol&#039; standby that works every time.....&quot;I was in fear for my life.&quot; They would have also tried to dig up anything they could about Fernandez to ensure the people that Fernandez was really some kind of terrible person who deserved what he got. How many innocent people have they done that to?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The large mass seen by the heat sensing helicopter could have been Mr Fernandez doing some garden equipment maintenance.</p>
<p>You can bet when Joe Cop opened that shed if he had seen Fernandez standing there with his 14 inch shears Fernandez would be dead right now.&#8221;</p>
<p>You&#8217;re right Mack, Fernandez would have been shot. And then they would have covered it up by smearing his reputation and saying he assaulted a police officer with the shears so the officer shot in self defense because&#8230;&#8230;and here&#8217;s the ol&#8217; standby that works every time&#8230;..&#8221;I was in fear for my life.&#8221; They would have also tried to dig up anything they could about Fernandez to ensure the people that Fernandez was really some kind of terrible person who deserved what he got. How many innocent people have they done that to?</p>
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		<title>By: supercat</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2009/02/10/puppycide-18/comment-page-1/#comment-240117</link>
		<dc:creator>supercat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Feb 2009 00:20:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=12035#comment-240117</guid>
		<description>Are there any statistics kept as to how many animals are shot by each officer?  I wonder if the statistics are skewed by a small number of officers who for whatever reason seem predisposed to kill dogs?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Are there any statistics kept as to how many animals are shot by each officer?  I wonder if the statistics are skewed by a small number of officers who for whatever reason seem predisposed to kill dogs?</p>
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		<title>By: MacK</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2009/02/10/puppycide-18/comment-page-1/#comment-240107</link>
		<dc:creator>MacK</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Feb 2009 00:09:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=12035#comment-240107</guid>
		<description>I think many of us are missing something that could have been much worse.
The large mass seen by the heat sensing helicopter could have been Mr Fernandez doing some garden equipment maintenance.

You can bet when Joe Cop opened that shed if he had seen Fernandez standing there with his 14 inch shears Fernandez would be dead right now.

You can also bet that this statement would not change much “This is an extra unfortunate incident,” he said. “All cops are people lovers and it hurts us deeply when something like this occurs.”.

I wonder how many grow operations that Helo has found illegally.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think many of us are missing something that could have been much worse.<br />
The large mass seen by the heat sensing helicopter could have been Mr Fernandez doing some garden equipment maintenance.</p>
<p>You can bet when Joe Cop opened that shed if he had seen Fernandez standing there with his 14 inch shears Fernandez would be dead right now.</p>
<p>You can also bet that this statement would not change much “This is an extra unfortunate incident,” he said. “All cops are people lovers and it hurts us deeply when something like this occurs.”.</p>
<p>I wonder how many grow operations that Helo has found illegally.</p>
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		<title>By: Marty</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2009/02/10/puppycide-18/comment-page-1/#comment-240085</link>
		<dc:creator>Marty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Feb 2009 23:45:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=12035#comment-240085</guid>
		<description>TC wins the prize!

Good luck Cynical, sounds like a great idea to get the word out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>TC wins the prize!</p>
<p>Good luck Cynical, sounds like a great idea to get the word out.</p>
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		<title>By: TC</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2009/02/10/puppycide-18/comment-page-1/#comment-240066</link>
		<dc:creator>TC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Feb 2009 23:10:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=12035#comment-240066</guid>
		<description>To think Michael Vick is in prison for killing dogs.....

He should have been a cop.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To think Michael Vick is in prison for killing dogs&#8230;..</p>
<p>He should have been a cop.</p>
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		<title>By: CHRISC</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2009/02/10/puppycide-18/comment-page-1/#comment-240034</link>
		<dc:creator>CHRISC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Feb 2009 22:21:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=12035#comment-240034</guid>
		<description>Back in the early 90&#039;s I once owned a large boxer in Phoenix, very protective but nice as pie. Never bit anyone. He chased away contractors, postmen, coyotes. Thank goodness the police never came by. In Mesa, a cop was investigating claims of dangerous pit-bulls on the loose (someone confused 2 brindle boxers for pit bulls) so he stood on his cruiser to peer into their owner&#039;s walled yard. Dogs see him looking over, and go crazy, he actually fires over the wall into the yard, kills both of them. He probably did it for... the children. Yeah, that&#039;s it. It&#039;s for the children!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Back in the early 90&#8242;s I once owned a large boxer in Phoenix, very protective but nice as pie. Never bit anyone. He chased away contractors, postmen, coyotes. Thank goodness the police never came by. In Mesa, a cop was investigating claims of dangerous pit-bulls on the loose (someone confused 2 brindle boxers for pit bulls) so he stood on his cruiser to peer into their owner&#8217;s walled yard. Dogs see him looking over, and go crazy, he actually fires over the wall into the yard, kills both of them. He probably did it for&#8230; the children. Yeah, that&#8217;s it. It&#8217;s for the children!</p>
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		<title>By: Michael G</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2009/02/10/puppycide-18/comment-page-1/#comment-240003</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael G</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Feb 2009 21:53:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=12035#comment-240003</guid>
		<description>&quot;If &#039;all cops&quot; were &#039;animal lovers,&#039; they’d learn how to subdue a dog without killing it.&quot;
I agree, completely.  As a Letter Carrier for 18 years I have had many encounters with dogs.  I was only bitten in the first year on the job.  After that I learned how to better deal with most dogs.  By talking to them you allay any fears they may have.  Some dogs, of course, like people, you can&#039;t talk to.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;If &#8216;all cops&#8221; were &#8216;animal lovers,&#8217; they’d learn how to subdue a dog without killing it.&#8221;<br />
I agree, completely.  As a Letter Carrier for 18 years I have had many encounters with dogs.  I was only bitten in the first year on the job.  After that I learned how to better deal with most dogs.  By talking to them you allay any fears they may have.  Some dogs, of course, like people, you can&#8217;t talk to.</p>
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		<title>By: Cynical In CA</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2009/02/10/puppycide-18/comment-page-1/#comment-239999</link>
		<dc:creator>Cynical In CA</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Feb 2009 21:43:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=12035#comment-239999</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s the same thing every time.

Someone owns a dog.  Cop comes onto property (trespasses, whatever).  Cop perceives a threat no matter how miniscule.  Cop dispatches dog with impunity.  Radley reports, you deride.  

I marvel at the consistent emotion, at the impotent rage time and again in the comments of these posts.

It is the nature of dogs to pose a danger, even if only as an alarm or diversion.  Cops know this.  Dog owners seem a little behind the curve.  Surely one of the reasons to own a large dog is for self-defense.  I see plenty of petite women out walking their boxers or Dobies or Rotts.

There are only three options:

1. Status quo -- SWAT roulette for dogs, puppycide posts from here to kingdom come.

2. Legislation -- will never get passed, as no politician could weather the police union&#039;s storm of &quot;you&#039;re putting the lives of officers in danger.&quot;

3. Spontaneous citizen action -- the only hope.

On March 1, 2009, I plan to attend a round table of animal welfare groups in Orange County, CA, and strike up some conversations about puppycide and just how much &quot;on the radar&quot; this issue is among professionals.  A couple of posters here (John Jenkins and Old) have offered their insights, which I will share in discussion.  I&#039;ll be happy to report back with my observations.  

In the meantime, I ask, among all you dog owners out there (and I&#039;m not one), are there any willing to do more than cry your eyes out at the next puppycide outrage due to be posted within the next 72 hours or less?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s the same thing every time.</p>
<p>Someone owns a dog.  Cop comes onto property (trespasses, whatever).  Cop perceives a threat no matter how miniscule.  Cop dispatches dog with impunity.  Radley reports, you deride.  </p>
<p>I marvel at the consistent emotion, at the impotent rage time and again in the comments of these posts.</p>
<p>It is the nature of dogs to pose a danger, even if only as an alarm or diversion.  Cops know this.  Dog owners seem a little behind the curve.  Surely one of the reasons to own a large dog is for self-defense.  I see plenty of petite women out walking their boxers or Dobies or Rotts.</p>
<p>There are only three options:</p>
<p>1. Status quo &#8212; SWAT roulette for dogs, puppycide posts from here to kingdom come.</p>
<p>2. Legislation &#8212; will never get passed, as no politician could weather the police union&#8217;s storm of &#8220;you&#8217;re putting the lives of officers in danger.&#8221;</p>
<p>3. Spontaneous citizen action &#8212; the only hope.</p>
<p>On March 1, 2009, I plan to attend a round table of animal welfare groups in Orange County, CA, and strike up some conversations about puppycide and just how much &#8220;on the radar&#8221; this issue is among professionals.  A couple of posters here (John Jenkins and Old) have offered their insights, which I will share in discussion.  I&#8217;ll be happy to report back with my observations.  </p>
<p>In the meantime, I ask, among all you dog owners out there (and I&#8217;m not one), are there any willing to do more than cry your eyes out at the next puppycide outrage due to be posted within the next 72 hours or less?</p>
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		<title>By: Rhayader</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2009/02/10/puppycide-18/comment-page-1/#comment-239991</link>
		<dc:creator>Rhayader</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Feb 2009 21:28:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=12035#comment-239991</guid>
		<description>Hey Brownwyn,

Hard to say if it would have been shot or not.  Cops SHOULD only kill a dog if it presents an immediate physical threat (ie is lunging at them, about to bite), but obviously that isn&#039;t always how it works.

In terms of dealing with the dog, the best thing would honestly be to make friends with the dog.  I know my parent&#039;s dog will bark her head off at someone walking up the driveway, then will happily let them pet her head when they actually come up to her.

Now depending on the dog, just walking up to it and trusting it not to go from barking to biting might not be the greatest idea ever.  Most dogs are ultimately friendly though, and will listen to people they know.  Maybe ask the neighbor what the best way to deal with it is?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Brownwyn,</p>
<p>Hard to say if it would have been shot or not.  Cops SHOULD only kill a dog if it presents an immediate physical threat (ie is lunging at them, about to bite), but obviously that isn&#8217;t always how it works.</p>
<p>In terms of dealing with the dog, the best thing would honestly be to make friends with the dog.  I know my parent&#8217;s dog will bark her head off at someone walking up the driveway, then will happily let them pet her head when they actually come up to her.</p>
<p>Now depending on the dog, just walking up to it and trusting it not to go from barking to biting might not be the greatest idea ever.  Most dogs are ultimately friendly though, and will listen to people they know.  Maybe ask the neighbor what the best way to deal with it is?</p>
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