New Oregonian and sometime Agitator guest blogger Jacob Grier writes an op-ed in opposition to that state’s pending smoking ban. The comments are depressing. Unfortunately, we lost this war about five years ago. Property rights lost out to, “I have the right to go to all the cool bars and force them to serve me on my terms.”
Speaking of which, Chicago may now ban smoking in apartments, too.
Thirty-seven-year-old man dies after jolt from “non-lethal” taser.
Interesting look at Oklahoma’s murder statute, which allows for a first-degree murder charge without requiring prosecutors to prove any criminal intent.
In response to the death of Rachel Hoffman, two Florida lawmakers are proposing changes in how the department deals with drug informants. It’s a shame that it took the death of a pretty white college student for that to happen, but it’s at least a small step in the right direction.
Men dressed as a police SWAT team raid a Phoenix home and carry out what looks to be a hit for a Mexican drug cartel.
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on Tuesday, December 30th, 2008 at 10:03 am by Radley Balko
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TheAgitator.com
I wonder how many of these self-righteous assholes will get upset if people start walking around with mobile phone jammers in order to protect their bodies from cancer-causing microwaves. Probably a lot of them.
Re the fake SWAT raid:
“We have seen an increasing amount of these type of violent crimes in the past five months,” Phoenix Police Sgt. Joel Tranter said. “We want the public to realize that these types of crimes will not be tolerated in Phoenix.”
It seems to me that the most legitimate complaint the police have in this case is one of copyright infringement.
quote of the day in the Chicago smoking ban article:
‘As he puffed on a cigarette outside a downtown bar on a recent 20-degree evening, Mark Lancaster, 30, said banning smoking in residences crosses the line. Lancaster, who lives in Rogers Park, supports the smoking ban in bars. “It’s better for other people, and it’s not a problem for me,” he said before throwing his butt in a trash can (he hates when smokers litter). But if apartments are the next anti-smoking frontier, Lancaster said he won’t be so compliant.
“I’d break that rule,” he said.
I love people who don’t mind limiting others’ (bar owners) property rights, but will disregard intrusions into their own. What an ass.
@#3-> I don’t think it’s as much that he sees it as his vs. other peoples rights, but rather public vs. private area rights. He does, however, forget that what he considers a public place (pub) may be someone elses private place, say, the owner.
“Protecting workers is simply the polite fiction by which nonsmokers have imposed their will on an increasingly unpopular minority.”
Oh, and it was so much better 30 years ago when the unpopular minority could impose its will on the majority?
Strange that you mention that MikeT. My hubbies been considering getting a cell phone jammer because he’s tired of people going for there phones when he’s halfway through sticking them with a needle – he works in the medical field. You would be surprised how often this occurs.
Myself – I’d consider using one in the car. After all, it just as dangerous to drive while talking on your cell phone than to drive drunk.
“We have seen an increasing amount of these type of violent crimes in the past five months,” Phoenix Police Sgt. Joel Tranter said. “We want the public to realize that these types of crimes will not be tolerated in Phoenix.”
Talk sure is cheap. I think the time to start “not tolerating these types of crimes” was five months ago. Both of my parents live in Phoenix, and they tell me about the horrorshow drunk driving checks and red light camera issues there — you know, “keeping the people safe.” Seems like the Phoenix police view old people as the real threat and not home invasions by Mexican drug cartel members.
In some (rare) instances, cigarette smoking in an apartment is, like a stereo that’s too loud, a nuisance for the neighbors. In the apartment I inhabited as a grad student, I had to run the exhaust fan 24/7 in the bathroom if I didn’t want the place to stink like stale smoke. My neighbor smoked in his bathroom and some idiosyncrasy of the ventilation pushed the smoke into my bathroom.
Smoking bans are a new front on the drug war. Everyone will over exaggerate things in order to feel justified for being a dick. Anti-second hand smokers are part of a fanatical religion. And fanatics exude the same selfishness and barbarity that they accuse others of having.
After Golden’s two accomplices completed the robbery, they fled the scene and were tailed by police officers and a police dog. One of the men, Charles Turner, shot and wounded the dog, and the officers returned fire, killing Turner. Golden was hiding under a boat in a nearby yard while these events unfolded.
Golden and his surviving accomplice, Christopher Michael Dickens, were both tried and convicted of first-degree murder for the death of their accomplice, who had been killed by a police officer. Golden and Dickens are serving life sentences, with the possibility of parole.
I know it’s difficult to work up much sympathy for armed-robbers, but basing the charge on whether the police wound or kill a fleeing suspect seems unfair even for our justice system. It’s the criminal justice version of suing all tangential parties in a civil case. I guess both come from the same thinking.
One has a right not to be exposed to second hand smoke.
And one exercises that right by not going to places where people are smoking.
#9 | Mattocracy and #11 | Zeb
well said!
Ron: What are you talking about? 30 years ago, people still had the right to not go place others were smoking, if they didn’t like the smoke.
The article is interesting, but it veers off on a weird tangent when it starts to mention the landlord’s limiting smoking voluntarily or at the insistence of their customers.
The author should have stuck with the state/legislation issues only. If a landlord wants to say no smoking and he/she only amends leases as they come up for renewal or start new, I can’t see how libertarians would be upset by that since it is the landlord’s property.
Same is true with the Condo covenants that you voluntarily joined (so long as it was all laid out in the papers before you bought) by buying into the property. It’s why I don’t understand why people set themselves up for being controlled by their holier than thou neighbors by buying into HOA or Covenant neighborhoods or buildings.
Meet Obamas senate replacement:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roland_Burris
It will be announced by illinois governor effenheimer at a news conference this afternoon.
Here is the article on the replacement, for those interested.
http://www.chicagobreakingnews.com/2008/12/blagojevich-to-name-burris-to-senate.html
perlhaqr,
oh, yes, 30 years ago I and my wife and young children were free to get out of the store checkout line before we had a chance to buy our groceries because some jerk in the line decided he could light up and fill the entire area with that awful cigarrette smoke and who cares of there are five other people in the line who hated the smoke. Yes, when I was in college I suppose I could choose to not go to class (and fail the course) because of the professors some of whom literally chain smoked with a regular cigarrette in one hand and a menthol in the other. Sometimes the guy would have a couple more still burning in the ash tray. Breathing was not easy in his class, I can attest to that. And I can cite many other similar situations but I think you get the point. Back then the minority imposed its will and its offensive smell on the majority, there is no question about that.
This is not to say I agree with everything the anti-smoking people are doing today, because I don’t. If you wanna smoke in your home or car, or in a bar, go ahead.
The anti-smoker questionaire.
I hate smokers/smoking because:
A. The smell of smoke is icky and yucky, it makes my hair and clothes stink and I hate walking into a bar/restaurant where people are smoking. So rather than take advantage of the free market and go somewhere that is voluntarily smoke free, I would rather use the power of the state to impose my personal preference on my fellow citizens.
B. My beloved ___________ (choose one: husband, wife, father, mother, brother, sister, nephew, niece, uncle, aunt, maid, dog, cat, goldfish, gay lover) died from ________(choose one: cancer, heart disease, emphysema, car crash, train wreck, terrorist attack, sting ray) because of their smoking.
C. I smoked for _____ (# of years) and now I am ________ (choose one: sick, dead, born again, enlightened, ashamed of myself) and want to share my experience with others.
D. The Big Tobacco companies are lying scumbags and must pay! (you’re not exactly coming down off the mountain with the tablets there)
E. I represent Big Pharmaceutical interests that benefit from the anti-smoking movement because it increases the sales of our Nicotine Replacement Therapy (NRT) products.
F. I am a deeply caring individual in the mold of Mother Theresa and I am speaking out due to my benevolent, philanthropic, altruistic concern about the health of my fellow man.
G. I am a research scientist and grant junky, and if I don’t tow the party line my grant money will disappear.
H. I’m just a garden variety Fascist and Totalitarian and get a ______ (choose one: cheap thrill, natural high, orgasm) by imposing my will on other people.
I. I am a simpleton who believes in bogus studies, junk science, the Easter Bunny and the Toothfairy. I fear that because I walked into a bar on Spring Break in 1987, and was exposed to Second Hand Smoke I now suffer from ______(choose one: AIDS, Herpes, Athlete’s Foot, Jock Itch, male pattern baldness, or genital warts)
J. I am a disgruntled, prissy and angry employee of a ______(choose one: bar, restaurant, club, casino) who can’t leave the job because I am a _______(choose one: slave, indentured servant, sweatshop laborer, illegal immigrant) and had no idea there was smoking going on in the place before I took the job.
K. An elected public serpent, serving as a _____ (choose one: State Assemblywoman, Senator, Freeholder, city councilman, mayor) and I have failed miserably in my job and trying to tackle really tough problems like _____ (choose one: gang violence, income taxes, property taxes, crime, corruption), so I will support a smoking ban based on the talking points and literature that “L” has given me and claim that I have actually accomplished something to help my constituents.
L. A professional anti-tobacco activist who makes $450,000 per year. MY GOAL IS TO REDUCE SMOKING RATES FROM 25% TO BELOW 10%. KICKING THEM OUT OF THEIR FAVORITE BAR AND RESTAURANT IS JUST A SMALL STEP TO COERCE THEM TO QUIT. I DON’T EVEN BELIEVE THE SHS NONSENSE MYSELF! Don’t you dare try to ban cigarettes, if you do I will have to go back to my previous job of ______(choose one: prostitute, drug dealer, pimp, state assemblyman, mayor) where I won’t make nearly as much money and the bank will foreclose on my seaside villa and repo my _______(choose one: Lexus, Mercedes, BMW, Hummer, Infiniti, Acura, Volvo, Bentley). I take advantage of the prejudices of categories A-K above to accomplish my goal.
M. I don’t fit any of the above categories, I just like to argue with people.
RE: Fake SWAT raid.
While not as ghastly as the Phoenix mob hit, in New York a pair of thieves donned “bulletproof vests bearing the New York Police Department logo” and ‘raided’ a house, absconding with $4000 worth of goodies on Christmas Eve. This of course was after claiming they had a warrant, gaining access to the house, pistol whipping the husband and tying a couple up. There were children in the house who, fortunately, didn’t awake during the robbery.
“It’s why I don’t understand why people set themselves up for being controlled by their holier than thou neighbors by buying into HOA or Covenant neighborhoods or buildings.”
In many areas, there aren’t a lot of other acceptable options.
Claude, I am so stealing that questionnaire. I love it.
Yeah Claude Im snagging it too. Hope you dont mind.
Here is a related link regarding second hand smoke:
http://www.davehitt.com/facts
Best quote from Jacob Grier’s article comments to honestly illustrate the motivations behind smoking bans:
Posted by leap29 on 12/29/08 at 9:15PM
Dell4100, I’d interpret it another way: We don’t want you to smoke – it’s bad for you and it’s bad for those around you. But if you’re going to, we’re going to tax you. Don’t want the tax? Stop smoking.
WE don’t want you to smoke … it’s bad for YOU … WE’RE going to tax YOU. This illustrates power gone mad, and the hypocritical and zealous nature of anti-[fill in the blank] people. Liberty, private property rights, and personal responsibility are NOT in the equation. When someone starts using government to force their agenda that these zealots don’t like, they whine like wounded dogs. Every time I read or hear zealots, I picture a rabies infested dog, frothing at the mouth, as they whip themselves into a frenzy as their face becomes red — I always imagine this when I occasionally tune in Rush Limbaugh for a few minutes to hear what garbage he’s spewing.
RE: Fake SWAT take2:
Holy crap, the hits keep coming, this time in LA.
RE: Grier’s Article
:::Sigh:::
Portland – It’s really, REALLY hard for me to say this, but I think I want to start seeing other cities. We’ve got a long history together and some really great memories… I was just 18 when we first met, and your numerous strip clubs will always hold a special place in my heart. But, you’ve changed, and I’m finding it increasingly hard to justify our affair, especially since it’s long-distance, and all.
Let’s be real – this is a slippery slope you’re heading down. First it’s smoking, then it’s tall cans… Before you know it, you will have leached all sorts of money out of me for a monorail you *say* you’re gonna build for me but never do, and then you’re going to take my plastic bags away! That’s just mean, and I refuse to go through that again. Once all that’s happened – oh, and it WILL – you tell me what you can offer me that Seattle doesn’t already. Huh? That wasn’t rhetorical!
You think you’re going to seduce me with that no sales-tax business again? Whatever. Gas isn’t THAT cheap. I even introduced you to my friends! How could you do this to me?!? It’s cool. I’m so over you. I didn’t want to say this, but Seattle’s better-looking, anyway. Without that bad-boy appeal, you’re NOTHING.
RE: “Rachel’s Law”
“We were placing most of the blame on Rachel Hoffman. I regret that now,” Jones said. “It made us look like we weren’t taking responsibility for what happened.”
Sure, Chief. You regret the negative publicity TPD received and that’s about it, you jackass. You guys turned a small time pot-dealing college grad into an informant, treated her like a “hardened criminal” and now you’re shocked that a couple of experience thugs killed her? This case should serve as a notice to the public of the immorality that is today’s drug war. People are just pawns to be used so that the department can get good publicity from a fawning media and bring in asset forfeiture money. The officer that was fired was in the wrong, no doubt, but probably has a point. Why didn’t heads roll at the top of the chain of command? Hmmm, I think I’ll call it Abu Ghraib syndrome.
It’s very simple: smoking is air pollution. On the scale of an individual, it’s usually a very small amount of pollution that isn’t a problem — after all, the atmosphere is very large. But in small places with lots of people (or very heavy smokers) it becomes a problem. Your right to smoke, just like your right to swing your fist, ends at my nose.
If that small place belongs to someone who wants to allow smoking, you don’t have the right to put your nose there.
#27- ‘It’s very simple’ to you smoking nannies. You say ‘it’s very simple’ as if everyone who opposes your views are not bright enough to understand ‘simple’ truths.
I know many nannies feel the end justifies the means… they lie, distort, legislate, claim it’s ‘for the children’, cite ‘your business will improve’ bullshit, whatever it takes to get cigarettes banned. But don’t ever talk about ‘rights’. When people lose the ability to smoke in their own business, this has gotten way out of whack.
There are books on the subject- do your research before you spew stupid cliches or cite the typical bullshit Alberto Gonzales statistics…
I can’t believe the Mexican drug cartel. Why don’t they call the police out on impersonating them?…You know, what with all the breaking into people’s homes and shooting them because they found marijuana seeds in their trash or the kidnapping little girls who are in their own yards and beating them to the point where they need hospitalization that the police do.
“We have seen an increasing amount of these type of violent crimes in the past five months,” Phoenix Police Sgt. Joel Tranter said. “We want the public to realize that these types of crimes will not be tolerated in Phoenix.”
Really? I couldn’t agree more. So, if you could have all your officers hand over there badges and guns…
“Your right to smoke, just like your right to swing your fist, ends at my nose.”
Your right to force others to conform to your notions of propriety end when you walk off your own property.
” Im snagging it too. Hope you dont mind.”
Be my guest. That was circulated via email a couple years ago. Its not my original work. I changed a few words here and there. Feel free to add catagories if you have something good. :-)
“Unfortunately, we lost this war about five years ago. Property rights lost out to, ‘I have the right to go to all the cool bars and force them to serve me on my terms.’”
Close, Radley. But you’re off by a couple hundred years or so.
Or maybe a couple thousand years.
Who knows, maybe tens of thousands.
Lysander Spooner wrote, “The Constitution either authorized such government as we have today or it was powerless to prevent it.”
An interesting view of the automotive industry. Where do you see the future of the industry, will it ever recover or will there be major casulties?