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	<title>Comments on: Holy Irony</title>
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	<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/11/26/holy-irony/</link>
	<description>It rankles me when somebody tries to tell somebody what to do.</description>
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		<title>By: InjusticeAnywhere@gmail.com</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/11/26/holy-irony/comment-page-1/#comment-243856</link>
		<dc:creator>InjusticeAnywhere@gmail.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Feb 2009 23:54:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=11268#comment-243856</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Update regarding Ben Field prosecutorial misconduct case:

http://www.mercurynews.com/ci_11680314]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Update regarding Ben Field prosecutorial misconduct case:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.mercurynews.com/ci_11680314" rel="nofollow">http://www.mercurynews.com/ci_11680314</a></p>
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		<title>By: Nick T</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/11/26/holy-irony/comment-page-1/#comment-212782</link>
		<dc:creator>Nick T</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Nov 2008 15:42:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=11268#comment-212782</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Chris, you shouldn&#039;t throw around the word monopoly so lightly, especially when it doesn&#039;t apply in any sense.  

At the consumer end there is no monopoly.  There are thousands upon thousands of lawyers and firms you could hire to represent you.  The market will still factor into and motivate lawyers to do a good job.  

Yes, some people would of coruse be capable of recognizing a good lawyer or good doctor without having to be assured that the person a)graduated law school b)passed an exam c) has never cheated or ratted out their clients or has otherwise behaved improperly.  But many people can&#039;t.  

I think you also have to look at who these bodies keep out and who they let in.  When they become too onerous, too expensive or they exist to favor certain schools or industries then it&#039;s a problem.  To become a licensed lawyer, you basically have to go to an accredited law school, pass a usually pretty easy exam and not have screwed somebody over at some point.  There would be a ton of quacks if anyone could become a legal counselor just because they got arrested once, or argued their way out of a parking ticket.  I could tell you anecdotes for days.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chris, you shouldn&#8217;t throw around the word monopoly so lightly, especially when it doesn&#8217;t apply in any sense.  </p>
<p>At the consumer end there is no monopoly.  There are thousands upon thousands of lawyers and firms you could hire to represent you.  The market will still factor into and motivate lawyers to do a good job.  </p>
<p>Yes, some people would of coruse be capable of recognizing a good lawyer or good doctor without having to be assured that the person a)graduated law school b)passed an exam c) has never cheated or ratted out their clients or has otherwise behaved improperly.  But many people can&#8217;t.  </p>
<p>I think you also have to look at who these bodies keep out and who they let in.  When they become too onerous, too expensive or they exist to favor certain schools or industries then it&#8217;s a problem.  To become a licensed lawyer, you basically have to go to an accredited law school, pass a usually pretty easy exam and not have screwed somebody over at some point.  There would be a ton of quacks if anyone could become a legal counselor just because they got arrested once, or argued their way out of a parking ticket.  I could tell you anecdotes for days.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Marty</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/11/26/holy-irony/comment-page-1/#comment-212597</link>
		<dc:creator>Marty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Nov 2008 01:57:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=11268#comment-212597</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[OneByTheCee-

Great link on prison profiteering! I was struck also by the &#039;1 in 32&#039; stat. Pretty mind-blowing!

We have just signed a legal team to start our fight- I&#039;m hoping we can make someone limp, but we&#039;re probably more like a defective pinto to Ford...

I&#039;ll be digging through the links you provided- thanks, again.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OneByTheCee-</p>
<p>Great link on prison profiteering! I was struck also by the &#8217;1 in 32&#8242; stat. Pretty mind-blowing!</p>
<p>We have just signed a legal team to start our fight- I&#8217;m hoping we can make someone limp, but we&#8217;re probably more like a defective pinto to Ford&#8230;</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll be digging through the links you provided- thanks, again.</p>
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		<title>By: OneByTheCee</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/11/26/holy-irony/comment-page-1/#comment-212546</link>
		<dc:creator>OneByTheCee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Nov 2008 20:48:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=11268#comment-212546</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[#21 Marty


Went to your link on your #9 post, then went to the CMS website.

The website gleefully states:

&quot;The future of correctional healthcare:
The number of prisoners in the United States has never been higher - 1 in 32 Americans is behind bars. The growing inmate population has resulted in incredible growth for the correctional healthcare industry as well as the increased privatization of correctional healthcare.&quot;

http://www.cmsstl.com/about-us/evolution-correctional-healthcare.asp]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#21 Marty</p>
<p>Went to your link on your #9 post, then went to the CMS website.</p>
<p>The website gleefully states:</p>
<p>&#8220;The future of correctional healthcare:<br />
The number of prisoners in the United States has never been higher &#8211; 1 in 32 Americans is behind bars. The growing inmate population has resulted in incredible growth for the correctional healthcare industry as well as the increased privatization of correctional healthcare.&#8221;</p>
<p><a href="http://www.cmsstl.com/about-us/evolution-correctional-healthcare.asp" rel="nofollow">http://www.cmsstl.com/about-us/evolution-correctional-healthcare.asp</a></p>
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		<title>By: OneByTheCee</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/11/26/holy-irony/comment-page-1/#comment-212542</link>
		<dc:creator>OneByTheCee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Nov 2008 20:38:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=11268#comment-212542</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[In 1981, I turned 18, got my drivers license, registered to vote, then BAM, got my first (of many) jury summons.  I was seated for a jury on a case of manslaughter.  During Voir Dire, the jury was told that police officers would be testifying and would any of us automatically believe their testimony?  Eleven of us outright laughed, including the judge!  But one older gentleman held fast that he would believe their testimony - he was excused.  In the end, we did find the defendant guilty of voluntary manslaughter.

But now, it&#039;s not just the police, it&#039;s the prosecutor&#039;s motives as well, that NEED to be questioned but how can that be done?

Interesting website:

http://truthinjustice.org/p-pmisconduct.htm]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In 1981, I turned 18, got my drivers license, registered to vote, then BAM, got my first (of many) jury summons.  I was seated for a jury on a case of manslaughter.  During Voir Dire, the jury was told that police officers would be testifying and would any of us automatically believe their testimony?  Eleven of us outright laughed, including the judge!  But one older gentleman held fast that he would believe their testimony &#8211; he was excused.  In the end, we did find the defendant guilty of voluntary manslaughter.</p>
<p>But now, it&#8217;s not just the police, it&#8217;s the prosecutor&#8217;s motives as well, that NEED to be questioned but how can that be done?</p>
<p>Interesting website:</p>
<p><a href="http://truthinjustice.org/p-pmisconduct.htm" rel="nofollow">http://truthinjustice.org/p-pmisconduct.htm</a></p>
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		<title>By: OneByTheCee</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/11/26/holy-irony/comment-page-1/#comment-212537</link>
		<dc:creator>OneByTheCee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Nov 2008 19:13:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=11268#comment-212537</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[#21 &#124;  Marty &#124;

http://www.corpwatch.org/article.php?id=867]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#21 |  Marty |</p>
<p><a href="http://www.corpwatch.org/article.php?id=867" rel="nofollow">http://www.corpwatch.org/article.php?id=867</a></p>
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		<title>By: TBoneJones</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/11/26/holy-irony/comment-page-1/#comment-212437</link>
		<dc:creator>TBoneJones</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Nov 2008 10:32:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=11268#comment-212437</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Before I worked in the criminal justice system for about a decade I thought  it was just criminal defense lawyers who were slime balls. Now its my opinion prosecutor&#039;s are worse. The only thing unusual  about the  Santa Clara County Dude is that he was minimally held accountable for his dishonesty.  It&#039;s  my opinion one of the best signs cops are lying when they&#039;re under oath is when their lips start moving. That being the case I now have much greater respect, and see the need for competent criminal defense attorneys.

As the DA is usually the highest level of law enforcement in a county, (a job that should require 100% honesty to bolster public trust) I think they should be held to the highest possible standards. One tiny lie, withhold  ANY  evidence, ignore ANY court order, they should disbarred for life, publicly flogged, tarred and feathered, then run out of town on a rail. (ooops, we wouldn&#039;t have any prosecutors left then so guess I better come up with another plan.)

Of COURSE they&#039;re trying to limit the consequences they could suffer for being scumbags. They&#039;re lawyers for Gods sake. Not sure what it is they do to them in law school but they sure come out of there with some messed up morals. (the whole herd of them!)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Before I worked in the criminal justice system for about a decade I thought  it was just criminal defense lawyers who were slime balls. Now its my opinion prosecutor&#8217;s are worse. The only thing unusual  about the  Santa Clara County Dude is that he was minimally held accountable for his dishonesty.  It&#8217;s  my opinion one of the best signs cops are lying when they&#8217;re under oath is when their lips start moving. That being the case I now have much greater respect, and see the need for competent criminal defense attorneys.</p>
<p>As the DA is usually the highest level of law enforcement in a county, (a job that should require 100% honesty to bolster public trust) I think they should be held to the highest possible standards. One tiny lie, withhold  ANY  evidence, ignore ANY court order, they should disbarred for life, publicly flogged, tarred and feathered, then run out of town on a rail. (ooops, we wouldn&#8217;t have any prosecutors left then so guess I better come up with another plan.)</p>
<p>Of COURSE they&#8217;re trying to limit the consequences they could suffer for being scumbags. They&#8217;re lawyers for Gods sake. Not sure what it is they do to them in law school but they sure come out of there with some messed up morals. (the whole herd of them!)</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Z.</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/11/26/holy-irony/comment-page-1/#comment-212429</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Z.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Nov 2008 09:18:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=11268#comment-212429</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Off topic, but this &quot;Jason&quot;/&quot;rightklik.blogspot.com&quot; guy is spamming.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Off topic, but this &#8220;Jason&#8221;/&#8221;rightklik.blogspot.com&#8221; guy is spamming.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Marty</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/11/26/holy-irony/comment-page-1/#comment-212367</link>
		<dc:creator>Marty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Nov 2008 05:12:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=11268#comment-212367</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[OneByTheCee-

I&#039;m not familiar with either of those groups- do you have any links or reference points?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OneByTheCee-</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not familiar with either of those groups- do you have any links or reference points?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: ZappaCrappa</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/11/26/holy-irony/comment-page-1/#comment-212363</link>
		<dc:creator>ZappaCrappa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Nov 2008 04:29:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=11268#comment-212363</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;the draft calls for a two-year statute of limitations for bringing any charges against attorneys.&quot;

Heh heh heh....thanks for the chuckle.  2 years.  They sure are generous with themselves.  If we ever have a revolution...the lawyers and lawyer/politicians HAVE to be the first to go.........just sayin&#039;....

*Disclaimer for prevention of SWAT team kicking in my door, shooting my dog, then conspiring with some prosecutor to send me up for life for treasonous statements:  ZappaCrappa does NOT support a revolution....at this time.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;the draft calls for a two-year statute of limitations for bringing any charges against attorneys.&#8221;</p>
<p>Heh heh heh&#8230;.thanks for the chuckle.  2 years.  They sure are generous with themselves.  If we ever have a revolution&#8230;the lawyers and lawyer/politicians HAVE to be the first to go&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;just sayin&#8217;&#8230;.</p>
<p>*Disclaimer for prevention of SWAT team kicking in my door, shooting my dog, then conspiring with some prosecutor to send me up for life for treasonous statements:  ZappaCrappa does NOT support a revolution&#8230;.at this time.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/11/26/holy-irony/comment-page-1/#comment-212345</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Nov 2008 01:23:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=11268#comment-212345</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Sorry Nick, I am perfectly capable of deciding if the doctor I choose to treat me is worthy do do the job.  The same with lawyers and every other profession.  All your way does is lead to an unnatural monopoly and the higher costs that government monopolies bring.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry Nick, I am perfectly capable of deciding if the doctor I choose to treat me is worthy do do the job.  The same with lawyers and every other profession.  All your way does is lead to an unnatural monopoly and the higher costs that government monopolies bring.</p>
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		<title>By: OneByTheCee</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/11/26/holy-irony/comment-page-1/#comment-212319</link>
		<dc:creator>OneByTheCee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Nov 2008 23:16:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=11268#comment-212319</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[#16 &#124;  Marty &#124; 

Out of curiosity, have any of your investigations lead you to CCA and The Geo Group?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#16 |  Marty | </p>
<p>Out of curiosity, have any of your investigations lead you to CCA and The Geo Group?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Marty</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/11/26/holy-irony/comment-page-1/#comment-212305</link>
		<dc:creator>Marty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Nov 2008 23:02:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=11268#comment-212305</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[thanks OneByTheCee, the more I investigate, the worse it gets. 

&#039;It’s horrific and unconscionable,&#039; indeed.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>thanks OneByTheCee, the more I investigate, the worse it gets. </p>
<p>&#8216;It’s horrific and unconscionable,&#8217; indeed.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Jason</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/11/26/holy-irony/comment-page-1/#comment-212284</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Nov 2008 21:43:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=11268#comment-212284</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[A recipe for disaster]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A recipe for disaster</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: bear</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/11/26/holy-irony/comment-page-1/#comment-212279</link>
		<dc:creator>bear</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Nov 2008 21:35:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=11268#comment-212279</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I for one am shocked...just shocked, that a prosecutor was actually held accountable for any crimes.  Unprecedented, to say the least.

Of course, I&#039;m not shocked, that the response from other prosecutors is to shut this whole accountability thing down.

FYI...I sent an email to Patrick Frey, an LA ADA, who runs the &quot;patterico.com&quot; website, requesting his coverage of this topic.  Say what you will, but aside from the occasional &quot;stepping off the reservation,(you too at times Radley.  Hell, me too, for that matter and I don&#039;t blog!)&quot; Patterico and his crew are generally fair minded and thought provoking bloggers.  I am thankful for the dust-ups between him and Radley which introduced me to his site.

I cc&#039;d you on the request Mr. B...

best,

-bear]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I for one am shocked&#8230;just shocked, that a prosecutor was actually held accountable for any crimes.  Unprecedented, to say the least.</p>
<p>Of course, I&#8217;m not shocked, that the response from other prosecutors is to shut this whole accountability thing down.</p>
<p>FYI&#8230;I sent an email to Patrick Frey, an LA ADA, who runs the &#8220;patterico.com&#8221; website, requesting his coverage of this topic.  Say what you will, but aside from the occasional &#8220;stepping off the reservation,(you too at times Radley.  Hell, me too, for that matter and I don&#8217;t blog!)&#8221; Patterico and his crew are generally fair minded and thought provoking bloggers.  I am thankful for the dust-ups between him and Radley which introduced me to his site.</p>
<p>I cc&#8217;d you on the request Mr. B&#8230;</p>
<p>best,</p>
<p>-bear</p>
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		<title>By: Cynical In CA</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/11/26/holy-irony/comment-page-1/#comment-212275</link>
		<dc:creator>Cynical In CA</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Nov 2008 21:22:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=11268#comment-212275</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;The first thing we do, let&#039;s kill all the lawyers.&quot;  Shakespeare, Henry VI]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The first thing we do, let&#8217;s kill all the lawyers.&#8221;  Shakespeare, Henry VI</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: OneByTheCee</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/11/26/holy-irony/comment-page-1/#comment-212271</link>
		<dc:creator>OneByTheCee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Nov 2008 21:08:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=11268#comment-212271</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[#9 &#124;  Marty &#124; 

I too, have read atrocious prison healthcare stories.  The ACLU 
conducted an investigation on a Nevada prison, that literally let a diabetic prisoner&#039;s limbs rot, which of course, killed him. Very slowly. 

I do not care what this prisoner did and the investigation didn&#039;t say, presumably, to make the dead prisoner more sympathetic.

It&#039;s horrific and unconscionable.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#9 |  Marty | </p>
<p>I too, have read atrocious prison healthcare stories.  The ACLU<br />
conducted an investigation on a Nevada prison, that literally let a diabetic prisoner&#8217;s limbs rot, which of course, killed him. Very slowly. </p>
<p>I do not care what this prisoner did and the investigation didn&#8217;t say, presumably, to make the dead prisoner more sympathetic.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s horrific and unconscionable.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: gDavid</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/11/26/holy-irony/comment-page-1/#comment-212230</link>
		<dc:creator>gDavid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Nov 2008 19:27:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=11268#comment-212230</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[A dirty prosecutor will ruin a persons life forever.  So any limit on their misconduct should be none.  It may take decades before a bad prosecutor can be found out and charged.  I also think that any prosecutor who does not abide by the law should be imprisioned forever until their death.  A prosecutor&#039;s job is to bring forth the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.  Anything less is worse than the most cowardly criminal can ever be.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A dirty prosecutor will ruin a persons life forever.  So any limit on their misconduct should be none.  It may take decades before a bad prosecutor can be found out and charged.  I also think that any prosecutor who does not abide by the law should be imprisioned forever until their death.  A prosecutor&#8217;s job is to bring forth the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.  Anything less is worse than the most cowardly criminal can ever be.</p>
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		<title>By: Scott</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/11/26/holy-irony/comment-page-1/#comment-212226</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Nov 2008 19:16:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=11268#comment-212226</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Wait!  I&#039;ve heard this one before.  How does it go...

&quot;All pigs are equal.  But some pigs are more equal than others&quot;.

That&#039;s the answer, right?  Now maybe I can get that cushy gub&#039;ment job.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wait!  I&#8217;ve heard this one before.  How does it go&#8230;</p>
<p>&#8220;All pigs are equal.  But some pigs are more equal than others&#8221;.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s the answer, right?  Now maybe I can get that cushy gub&#8217;ment job.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: MacGregory</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/11/26/holy-irony/comment-page-1/#comment-212180</link>
		<dc:creator>MacGregory</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Nov 2008 17:29:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=11268#comment-212180</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Evaluating the performance of a prosecutor based on a conviction rate is a big part of the problem. Threats of longer jail terms, if convicted in court, leading to plea bargains (or agreements as they like to say) follows closely. If I were working on a project and things got this messy, I would scrap the whole thing and start over.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Evaluating the performance of a prosecutor based on a conviction rate is a big part of the problem. Threats of longer jail terms, if convicted in court, leading to plea bargains (or agreements as they like to say) follows closely. If I were working on a project and things got this messy, I would scrap the whole thing and start over.</p>
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