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	<title>Comments on: Transparency vs. Anonymity</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.theagitator.com/2008/11/13/transparency-vs-anonymity/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/11/13/transparency-vs-anonymity/</link>
	<description>It rankles me when somebody tries to tell somebody what to do.</description>
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		<title>By: Lloyd</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/11/13/transparency-vs-anonymity/comment-page-2/#comment-206969</link>
		<dc:creator>Lloyd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Nov 2008 02:14:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=11091#comment-206969</guid>
		<description>Transparency cost this fellow his job. I guess people have to be careful from now on what causes they support or oppose.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Transparency cost this fellow his job. I guess people have to be careful from now on what causes they support or oppose.</p>
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		<title>By: SJE</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/11/13/transparency-vs-anonymity/comment-page-2/#comment-206791</link>
		<dc:creator>SJE</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Nov 2008 17:36:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=11091#comment-206791</guid>
		<description>Lloyd:  the hysteria is disturbing, and it would be no less disturbing coming from the other &quot;side.&quot;  That is not an argument against transparency, however.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lloyd:  the hysteria is disturbing, and it would be no less disturbing coming from the other &#8220;side.&#8221;  That is not an argument against transparency, however.</p>
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		<title>By: dad29</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/11/13/transparency-vs-anonymity/comment-page-2/#comment-206758</link>
		<dc:creator>dad29</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Nov 2008 14:33:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=11091#comment-206758</guid>
		<description>You could, BobzBob, point out the specific &quot;inaccuracies&quot; of the WMC ads...

Matter of fact, I don&#039;t have a problem with the s/w company doing what it did.

But it&#039;s also clear that the Left has decided to elevate political disagreement to economic blackmail.

SO....germane to the thread, anonymity is preferred.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You could, BobzBob, point out the specific &#8220;inaccuracies&#8221; of the WMC ads&#8230;</p>
<p>Matter of fact, I don&#8217;t have a problem with the s/w company doing what it did.</p>
<p>But it&#8217;s also clear that the Left has decided to elevate political disagreement to economic blackmail.</p>
<p>SO&#8230;.germane to the thread, anonymity is preferred.</p>
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		<title>By: Lloyd</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/11/13/transparency-vs-anonymity/comment-page-1/#comment-206511</link>
		<dc:creator>Lloyd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Nov 2008 22:20:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=11091#comment-206511</guid>
		<description>Here&#039;s a hypothetical: Let&#039;s suppose that a gay theater director in Utah felt that he had to resign his job after it came to light that he sent a contribution to the anti-prop 8 effort -- that Mormons from around the country threatened his employer with boycott unless he left. Would that be any better/worse/different?

Personally, I find the anti-Mormon hysteria -- and the vindictive &#039;outing&#039; of the Sacremento theater director a bit disturbing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s a hypothetical: Let&#8217;s suppose that a gay theater director in Utah felt that he had to resign his job after it came to light that he sent a contribution to the anti-prop 8 effort &#8212; that Mormons from around the country threatened his employer with boycott unless he left. Would that be any better/worse/different?</p>
<p>Personally, I find the anti-Mormon hysteria &#8212; and the vindictive &#8216;outing&#8217; of the Sacremento theater director a bit disturbing.</p>
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		<title>By: Frank N</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/11/13/transparency-vs-anonymity/comment-page-1/#comment-206271</link>
		<dc:creator>Frank N</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Nov 2008 13:05:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=11091#comment-206271</guid>
		<description>Transparency will breed a viral reciprocity. Anonymity is our only choice....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Transparency will breed a viral reciprocity. Anonymity is our only choice&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: supercat</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/11/13/transparency-vs-anonymity/comment-page-1/#comment-205699</link>
		<dc:creator>supercat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Nov 2008 01:13:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=11091#comment-205699</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;A common sense threshold should be maintained though, perhaps anything under 250$ as immaterial.&lt;/i&gt;

According to present statutes and regulations, if an individual contributes less than $200 to a campaign, reporting is not necessary.  If an individual contributes more than $200, whether all at once or in small transactions, reporting is required.  Obama received an unprecedented amount of money in transactions below $200.  He has not released information that would make it possible to ensure with any certainty that everyone whose combined donations exceed $200 is reported.  Indeed, I would not be surprised if he has avoided collecting such information.

Someone who stopped by five stores once a week could buy with cash a $200 gift card at each store while arousing very little suspicion.  Go online at an Internet cafe and donate $995 completely anonymously.  Repeat as often as desired.  The $2200 limit on total contributions wouldn&#039;t be a factor at all.  If one was willing to do more legwork or found some reliable assistants, one could donate an essentially-unlimited amount of untraceable cash.  One might waste 10% in card fees and help costs, but if someone wanted to donate $1,000,000 it would hardly be impossible.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>A common sense threshold should be maintained though, perhaps anything under 250$ as immaterial.</i></p>
<p>According to present statutes and regulations, if an individual contributes less than $200 to a campaign, reporting is not necessary.  If an individual contributes more than $200, whether all at once or in small transactions, reporting is required.  Obama received an unprecedented amount of money in transactions below $200.  He has not released information that would make it possible to ensure with any certainty that everyone whose combined donations exceed $200 is reported.  Indeed, I would not be surprised if he has avoided collecting such information.</p>
<p>Someone who stopped by five stores once a week could buy with cash a $200 gift card at each store while arousing very little suspicion.  Go online at an Internet cafe and donate $995 completely anonymously.  Repeat as often as desired.  The $2200 limit on total contributions wouldn&#8217;t be a factor at all.  If one was willing to do more legwork or found some reliable assistants, one could donate an essentially-unlimited amount of untraceable cash.  One might waste 10% in card fees and help costs, but if someone wanted to donate $1,000,000 it would hardly be impossible.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave Krueger</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/11/13/transparency-vs-anonymity/comment-page-1/#comment-205631</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Krueger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Nov 2008 23:35:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=11091#comment-205631</guid>
		<description>The fact is that, as long as politicians have immense power to control people and money, there is not a single thing you can do to control those who want to buy favors from those politicians.  Once you&#039;ve created a market, the more you restrict it, the more you&#039;ll push it under ground.  But you can&#039;t make it go away.

I&#039;m totally for anonymous speech.  For those who think &quot;it can&#039;t happen here&quot;, it can.  What you say, even here on this very blog, could conceivably be used against you someday, whether by government or others.  I also think contributions, anonymous or not, are a form of expression and are protected.  Back when the First Amendment meant something (it doesn&#039;t anymore), I think campaign contributions would be recognized as such.

The only way to control campaign finance is to limit government power.  And that, we know, will never happen.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The fact is that, as long as politicians have immense power to control people and money, there is not a single thing you can do to control those who want to buy favors from those politicians.  Once you&#8217;ve created a market, the more you restrict it, the more you&#8217;ll push it under ground.  But you can&#8217;t make it go away.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m totally for anonymous speech.  For those who think &#8220;it can&#8217;t happen here&#8221;, it can.  What you say, even here on this very blog, could conceivably be used against you someday, whether by government or others.  I also think contributions, anonymous or not, are a form of expression and are protected.  Back when the First Amendment meant something (it doesn&#8217;t anymore), I think campaign contributions would be recognized as such.</p>
<p>The only way to control campaign finance is to limit government power.  And that, we know, will never happen.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff Licquia</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/11/13/transparency-vs-anonymity/comment-page-1/#comment-205603</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Licquia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Nov 2008 22:45:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=11091#comment-205603</guid>
		<description>I have one question for you all:

Are you now, or have you ever been, a member of the Communist Party?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have one question for you all:</p>
<p>Are you now, or have you ever been, a member of the Communist Party?</p>
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		<title>By: SJE</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/11/13/transparency-vs-anonymity/comment-page-1/#comment-205429</link>
		<dc:creator>SJE</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Nov 2008 20:11:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=11091#comment-205429</guid>
		<description>#32: Even if there is never a true &quot;fully transparent&quot; politician, it does not mean that we should not pursue as much transparency as possible. A goal being unattainable does not make it worthless. To argue otherwise is like saying that because we will all die some day, that we should never go to the doctor.

#44: I don&#039;t think anyone is disputing the theatre director&#039;s right to have or express opinions.  However, the right to hire/fire him is the employer&#039;s, not ours.  

In this particular case, the public support of anti-gay initiatives would probably affect the ability of an artistic director to perform his work, because his work involves very extensive interaction with the gay community, and because his presence jeopardizes the relationship of his organization with its customers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#32: Even if there is never a true &#8220;fully transparent&#8221; politician, it does not mean that we should not pursue as much transparency as possible. A goal being unattainable does not make it worthless. To argue otherwise is like saying that because we will all die some day, that we should never go to the doctor.</p>
<p>#44: I don&#8217;t think anyone is disputing the theatre director&#8217;s right to have or express opinions.  However, the right to hire/fire him is the employer&#8217;s, not ours.  </p>
<p>In this particular case, the public support of anti-gay initiatives would probably affect the ability of an artistic director to perform his work, because his work involves very extensive interaction with the gay community, and because his presence jeopardizes the relationship of his organization with its customers.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew Williams</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/11/13/transparency-vs-anonymity/comment-page-1/#comment-205380</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew Williams</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Nov 2008 19:18:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=11091#comment-205380</guid>
		<description>Does anyone else see the humor in a *theater* director being anti-gay marriage? 

Anyway, I don&#039;t think he should have resigned/been fired. Even if he had had a billboard and a bullhorn. It&#039;s his right to hold that opinion and express it. As long as it doesn&#039;t affect the quality of his work, it&#039;s irrelevant.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Does anyone else see the humor in a *theater* director being anti-gay marriage? </p>
<p>Anyway, I don&#8217;t think he should have resigned/been fired. Even if he had had a billboard and a bullhorn. It&#8217;s his right to hold that opinion and express it. As long as it doesn&#8217;t affect the quality of his work, it&#8217;s irrelevant.</p>
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		<title>By: Mattocracy</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/11/13/transparency-vs-anonymity/comment-page-1/#comment-205364</link>
		<dc:creator>Mattocracy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Nov 2008 18:54:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=11091#comment-205364</guid>
		<description>Mr. Bowers is right.  The problem isn&#039;t that we give money to politicians, the problem is that we have politicians.  This is like arguing how to wage the drug war knowing good and well that we shouldn&#039;t be waging it at all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mr. Bowers is right.  The problem isn&#8217;t that we give money to politicians, the problem is that we have politicians.  This is like arguing how to wage the drug war knowing good and well that we shouldn&#8217;t be waging it at all.</p>
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		<title>By: Tom Myers</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/11/13/transparency-vs-anonymity/comment-page-1/#comment-205357</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom Myers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Nov 2008 18:44:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=11091#comment-205357</guid>
		<description>Transparency of government is important; anonymity of opponents is important. Why not have both? The winner of any election must publish a complete list of all donations: who and how much. The loser can be silent.

(I&#039;m not at all sure this is a good idea, but I thought it was interesting.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Transparency of government is important; anonymity of opponents is important. Why not have both? The winner of any election must publish a complete list of all donations: who and how much. The loser can be silent.</p>
<p>(I&#8217;m not at all sure this is a good idea, but I thought it was interesting.)</p>
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		<title>By: Brandon Bowers</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/11/13/transparency-vs-anonymity/comment-page-1/#comment-205354</link>
		<dc:creator>Brandon Bowers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Nov 2008 18:40:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=11091#comment-205354</guid>
		<description>Of course, the reason this is even an issue is because government is involved in so many areas where it has neither the moral nor constitutional authority to be. Fix government and this becomes much less significant.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Of course, the reason this is even an issue is because government is involved in so many areas where it has neither the moral nor constitutional authority to be. Fix government and this becomes much less significant.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/11/13/transparency-vs-anonymity/comment-page-1/#comment-205305</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Nov 2008 17:32:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=11091#comment-205305</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;There should be a way to get both. What about political donation lists that only show the hometown and an anonymous tracking number, with provisions to keep names classified without a subpoena?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Except that such a system is going to be inherently insecure and eventually (by that I mean &#039;within 6 weeks&#039;) whatever anonymizing code they use will be broken and people with the right knowledge will be able to connect A and B. Reference the controversy a few years ago when AOL accidentally released &quot;anonymized&quot; search records. Search records were only referenced by number, not screen name or individual identity, yet enterprising individuals were quickly able to connect the numbers to usernames and from there to individuals.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>There should be a way to get both. What about political donation lists that only show the hometown and an anonymous tracking number, with provisions to keep names classified without a subpoena?</p></blockquote>
<p>Except that such a system is going to be inherently insecure and eventually (by that I mean &#8216;within 6 weeks&#8217;) whatever anonymizing code they use will be broken and people with the right knowledge will be able to connect A and B. Reference the controversy a few years ago when AOL accidentally released &#8220;anonymized&#8221; search records. Search records were only referenced by number, not screen name or individual identity, yet enterprising individuals were quickly able to connect the numbers to usernames and from there to individuals.</p>
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		<title>By: bobzbob</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/11/13/transparency-vs-anonymity/comment-page-1/#comment-205275</link>
		<dc:creator>bobzbob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Nov 2008 16:39:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=11091#comment-205275</guid>
		<description>&quot;The Wis Mfgrs/Commerce ass’n had heavily supported a ‘conservative’ (and successful) individual for the WI Supreme Court. Some of their advertisements were controversial, but not inaccurate.&quot;

Actually many of the WMC ads were most certainly inaccurate.

Second, Are you arguing that a software company doesn&#039;t have the right to spend its money as it see&#039;s fit?  That is should be illegal for a company to not do business with someone associated with an organization with which it disagrees?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The Wis Mfgrs/Commerce ass’n had heavily supported a ‘conservative’ (and successful) individual for the WI Supreme Court. Some of their advertisements were controversial, but not inaccurate.&#8221;</p>
<p>Actually many of the WMC ads were most certainly inaccurate.</p>
<p>Second, Are you arguing that a software company doesn&#8217;t have the right to spend its money as it see&#8217;s fit?  That is should be illegal for a company to not do business with someone associated with an organization with which it disagrees?</p>
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		<title>By: bobzbob</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/11/13/transparency-vs-anonymity/comment-page-1/#comment-205272</link>
		<dc:creator>bobzbob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Nov 2008 16:32:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=11091#comment-205272</guid>
		<description>Simple:  All contributions should be anonymous to the recipients.  Set up an organization that accepts contributions that are earmarked for a candidate.  Bundle those contributions and distribute them to the candidates anonymously.  If you believe in a candidate you can contribute to him/her, but there can be no quid pro quo because the candidates can&#039;t know the quid (or is it the quo?).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Simple:  All contributions should be anonymous to the recipients.  Set up an organization that accepts contributions that are earmarked for a candidate.  Bundle those contributions and distribute them to the candidates anonymously.  If you believe in a candidate you can contribute to him/her, but there can be no quid pro quo because the candidates can&#8217;t know the quid (or is it the quo?).</p>
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		<title>By: dad29</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/11/13/transparency-vs-anonymity/comment-page-1/#comment-205224</link>
		<dc:creator>dad29</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Nov 2008 15:37:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=11091#comment-205224</guid>
		<description>FWIW, there&#039;s a Wisconsin controversy which bears on this.

The Wis Mfgrs/Commerce ass&#039;n had heavily supported a &#039;conservative&#039; (and successful) individual for the WI Supreme Court.  Some of their advertisements were controversial, but not inaccurate.

Following the election, a member of the Wis Mfgrs/Commerce Board resigned that position.  He&#039;s also the Chair of a large general contracting firm which was building a VERY large addition for a Wisconsin software company.

Turns out that the CEO of the software company is a very, very, left-leaning activist--and she had &quot;advised&quot; the construction Chairman that unless he dis-associated himself from Wis Mfgrs/Commerce, he would lose the contract for her Company&#039;s building.  That would have had a severe impact on the contractor&#039;s business (not to mention a large number of his employees.)

All perfectly legal, of course.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>FWIW, there&#8217;s a Wisconsin controversy which bears on this.</p>
<p>The Wis Mfgrs/Commerce ass&#8217;n had heavily supported a &#8216;conservative&#8217; (and successful) individual for the WI Supreme Court.  Some of their advertisements were controversial, but not inaccurate.</p>
<p>Following the election, a member of the Wis Mfgrs/Commerce Board resigned that position.  He&#8217;s also the Chair of a large general contracting firm which was building a VERY large addition for a Wisconsin software company.</p>
<p>Turns out that the CEO of the software company is a very, very, left-leaning activist&#8211;and she had &#8220;advised&#8221; the construction Chairman that unless he dis-associated himself from Wis Mfgrs/Commerce, he would lose the contract for her Company&#8217;s building.  That would have had a severe impact on the contractor&#8217;s business (not to mention a large number of his employees.)</p>
<p>All perfectly legal, of course.</p>
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		<title>By: mr. snrub</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/11/13/transparency-vs-anonymity/comment-page-1/#comment-205190</link>
		<dc:creator>mr. snrub</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Nov 2008 14:51:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=11091#comment-205190</guid>
		<description>I think there&#039;s a distinction to be drawn between donating to a cause (No on 8, ACLU, NRA) and donating directly to a candidate.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think there&#8217;s a distinction to be drawn between donating to a cause (No on 8, ACLU, NRA) and donating directly to a candidate.</p>
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		<title>By: Erico</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/11/13/transparency-vs-anonymity/comment-page-1/#comment-205137</link>
		<dc:creator>Erico</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Nov 2008 13:58:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=11091#comment-205137</guid>
		<description>Why not go for anonymity to the recipient as well. Give as much as you want to who you want, whether you are an individual or a corp. However, the money goes into a blind trust. The candidate gets to know the balance, but not where it came from. I can then support who I want, remain anonymous, and all the candidates who claim that contributors arent &quot;buying&quot; representation can  make good on that claim.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why not go for anonymity to the recipient as well. Give as much as you want to who you want, whether you are an individual or a corp. However, the money goes into a blind trust. The candidate gets to know the balance, but not where it came from. I can then support who I want, remain anonymous, and all the candidates who claim that contributors arent &#8220;buying&#8221; representation can  make good on that claim.</p>
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		<title>By: Frank</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/11/13/transparency-vs-anonymity/comment-page-1/#comment-205031</link>
		<dc:creator>Frank</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Nov 2008 11:31:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=11091#comment-205031</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m for anonymity.  Just watch:  When we get single-payer health care crammed down our throats by the democrats, the primary list of those denied entry in the system will be the donation list from Ron Paul&#039;s presidential bid.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m for anonymity.  Just watch:  When we get single-payer health care crammed down our throats by the democrats, the primary list of those denied entry in the system will be the donation list from Ron Paul&#8217;s presidential bid.</p>
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