Comments on: Sunday Afternoon Stuff

By: buzz

buzz — Tue, 11 Nov 2008 20:45:53 +0000

Yes, that was an impressive article. Impressive in how much crap can be shoveled into one little column. How dare we think that maybe people who are “one of us” and successfully ran a business or raised a family or served in a lower office might possible be as competent as a lawyer. And after all the success of the Intellectual class has had over the past 50 years or so. And les, “f you’re a dishonest, hypocritical, bigoted statist, like Palin is” isnt considered correct just because you said it. Might give a little thought to supporting it if you want to be considered seriously.

By: Robert

Robert — Tue, 11 Nov 2008 08:28:15 +0000

“We” are not in a position to allow people to have children or not. It is a basic biological function. A government has as much right to forbid someone to have a baby as it does to forbid someone to take a shit.

Ahh… so “we” don’t have the right to tell someone not to have sex with a willing 12 year old? After all, it’s a biological function, and as long both parties are okay with it, then all’s fair?

By: Greg C.

Greg C. — Tue, 11 Nov 2008 02:33:51 +0000

Steve Young ( or at least his wife with his implied support) opposed Prop 8. So he’s a “good Mormon” to me. I guess he’s just too secure in his heterosexuality to be “threatened” by homosexual marriage. I wonder what Jeff Garcia and Carmella think.

By: Jeremy

Jeremy — Mon, 10 Nov 2008 23:25:44 +0000

Jeff,

The answer to each of your questions is yes. The LDS church has put itself in a bad situation and Mormons should be concerned about the real mental anguish we helped bring to a significant number of people. I would understand if many socially liberal Americans had a sour taste in their mouth for Mormonism for a long time to come.

By: Zeb

Zeb — Mon, 10 Nov 2008 15:41:57 +0000

“So I guess we should allow severely mentally retarded people to have children. They’re people after all”

“We” are not in a position to allow people to have children or not. It is a basic biological function. A government has as much right to forbid someone to have a baby as it does to forbid someone to take a shit.

By: John Jenkins

John Jenkins — Mon, 10 Nov 2008 15:30:30 +0000

@21 – Robert, communism does *not* sound okay in theory. From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs necessarily implies that someone will determine those needs and that someone will determine ability. As a result those of ability will be forced to supply those with needs. Irrespective of all the idiocies inherent in central planning, that use of force is what makes communism evil and not “good in theory.”

By: Jeff

Jeff — Mon, 10 Nov 2008 12:26:17 +0000

Jeremy – agreed, the boycott of Utah won’t help anyone and it’s a stupid move, but won’t this whole debacle hurt the LDS Church? I mean, if you’re Mormon, won’t you feel a little awkward about talking to a gay guy, or even a social liberal, for a while? And won’t such people be a little wary of you when you tell them of your religion? I mean, how many more doors are going to get slammed in missionaries’ faces from here on?

All this Prop 8 episode did was take latent bigotry against Mormons, bring it into the open, and give people an excuse for it. And for what? Monson picked a bad hill to die on here. He had to know that getting this involved in a passionate issue was going to turn a lot of people against the Church, right? I’m not excusing bigotry, but isn’t this whole LDS PR disaster partly Monson’s fault?

By: CL

CL — Mon, 10 Nov 2008 07:53:14 +0000

One, and only one, good thing from the Lilla article:

But “populist chic” is just the inversion of “radical chic,” and is no less absurd, comical or ominous.

Couldn’t agree more. Palin’s problem is not that she’s dumb (she isn’t). For a time, she was the embodiment of a cynical gimmick and it’ll be a while before she can shake that off (if she cares to).

By: Jeremy

Jeremy — Mon, 10 Nov 2008 06:22:42 +0000

The Mormons may have a history of institutional racism (like nearly ever other predominately white American church) but the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints today allows no discrimination in any of its rites or teachings based on skin color. The letter Radley cited should remind all Mormons of our shameful history and the importance moving past racist practices and teachings from the past.

Mormons did play a role in getting Prop 8 passed but boycotting Utah isn’t going to hurt the L.D.S. church. It is going to impact the livelihood of many fair minded workers (both gay and straight) who are just trying to make a living for themselves and their families. The boycott is a foolish idea.

By: Les

Les — Mon, 10 Nov 2008 06:15:10 +0000

Even IF you are…

By: Les

Les — Mon, 10 Nov 2008 06:13:46 +0000

Palin is attacked as a rural rube, but not because she’s a rural rube. They hate her politics. She’d be equally reviled even if she were the intellectual equivalent of Thomas Jefferson.

Even is you are the intellectual equivalent of Thomas Jefferson, if you’re a dishonest, hypocritical, bigoted statist, like Palin is, then you deserve to be reviled. Politics have nothing to do with it.

By: Robert

Robert — Mon, 10 Nov 2008 06:10:46 +0000

Well, eugenics is definitely a bad idea, and I don’t like the thought of trying to control someone’s body, but on the other hand, does a person who has abused their previous children really have an unlimited right to keep having children?

I suspect most people would say yes they do, but I don’t know.

So I guess we should allow severely mentally retarded people to have children. They’re people after all. At what point does one decide that someone isn’t able to take care of a child? By the way, saying someone can’t have a child because she didn’t/couldn’t take care of her previous children is not eugenics.

That being said, eugenics, on an academic level probably wouldn’t be bad for our species. The problem is in the execution. Sort of like communism. It sure sounds okay in theory, but just doesn’t work.

By: Alex

Alex — Mon, 10 Nov 2008 05:50:44 +0000

@ #11 — I have to assume he’s talking about Krugman. If so, his academic work is beyond reproach. But he’s now a Dem hack for the Grey Lady, and it’s perfectly civil, and necessary, to criticize that work.

By: Alex

Alex — Mon, 10 Nov 2008 05:45:52 +0000

From the WSJ article:

“Buckley [badass], Irving Kristol [founding neocon], Nathan Glazer [neocon], Daniel Patrick Moynihan [necon-leaning Dem], Gertrude Himmelfarb [necon, Irving's wife], Peter Berger [neocon], Jeane Kirkpatrick [neocon, gave "Blame America First" speech at 84 RNC], Norman Podhoretz [neocon]– agree or disagree with their views, these were people one had to take seriously.”

I did take them seriously, but I don’t have to anymore for the same reason I ignore the fat, bearded fellow peddling the latest People’s Weekly World. They had some power during Reagan, and we got Iran-Contra. They had ultimate power in this administration after 9/11, and we preemptively invaded a country with no more than 25% of the force needed, not to mention the other myriad atrocities against conservatism. Sorry Dr. Lilla, but you assholes had your day and you blew it. Get over it.

By: Walter

Walter — Mon, 10 Nov 2008 04:11:21 +0000

Palin is attacked as a rural rube, but not because she’s a rural rube. They hate her politics. She’d be equally reviled even if she were the intellectual equivalent of Thomas Jefferson.

By: Lee

Lee — Mon, 10 Nov 2008 01:30:22 +0000

If a person doesn’t own their body, then you get things like anti-prostitution laws, reproduction laws, etc. If you don’t own your body, then you are 100% a fucking slave. Get it?

By: ktc2

ktc2 — Mon, 10 Nov 2008 00:56:41 +0000

Great news on the possible AIDS cure.

One of those rare Radley posts that doesn’t ruin my day.

By: Eric Ogunbase

Eric Ogunbase — Mon, 10 Nov 2008 00:49:02 +0000

If you think that letter from the Mormons is a surprise, if you go to 2 Nephi 5, verses 21-25, you will see where God cursed them with a “skin of blackness”.

Ah racism under the cover of “religion”.

It’s always amusing, because Abraham is from an area which would be modern day Iraq. We know how many lightskinned people come from there!

By: Marty

Marty — Mon, 10 Nov 2008 00:02:34 +0000

‘We should like to say this to you in all sincerity, that you are too fine a man to permit yourself to be led off from the principles of the Gospel by worldly learning.
You have too much of a potentiality for doing good and we therefore prayerfully hope that you can re-orient your thinking and bring it in line with the revealed Word of God.’

I keep reading this over and over and picture a smiling asshole minister trying to lead a curious young man away from getting a useful education. The fact that the man who wrote this may still be alive leads me to think these attitudes regarding race and intellectualism are still alive, as well.

By: SusanK

SusanK — Sun, 09 Nov 2008 22:39:46 +0000

As far as the Dutch article goes, we pretty much already have the same system here in the states. Sure, women who have been previously found unfit mothers and have had their parental rights terminated aren’t forced to take contraceptives, but their children are removed from them at the hospital and put in foster care. Don’t think states don’t track that. The only way to avoid it is by having a baby in another state and not receiving public assistance for the pregnancy.