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	<title>Comments on: Kentucky Rules the Internet</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.theagitator.com/2008/10/21/kentucky-rules-the-internet/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/10/21/kentucky-rules-the-internet/</link>
	<description>It rankles me when somebody tries to tell somebody what to do.</description>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Cynical In CA</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/10/21/kentucky-rules-the-internet/comment-page-1/#comment-195427</link>
		<dc:creator>Cynical In CA</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Oct 2008 05:01:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=10845#comment-195427</guid>
		<description>Sin = without

Semilla = seed

Sinsemilla = without seed

Shit, I learn something new every day.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sin = without</p>
<p>Semilla = seed</p>
<p>Sinsemilla = without seed</p>
<p>Shit, I learn something new every day.</p>
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		<title>By: Ganja Blue</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/10/21/kentucky-rules-the-internet/comment-page-1/#comment-194222</link>
		<dc:creator>Ganja Blue</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Oct 2008 14:05:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=10845#comment-194222</guid>
		<description>Actually I like just about any kind of grass.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually I like just about any kind of grass.</p>
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		<title>By: Ganja Blue</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/10/21/kentucky-rules-the-internet/comment-page-1/#comment-194221</link>
		<dc:creator>Ganja Blue</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Oct 2008 14:05:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=10845#comment-194221</guid>
		<description>I like bluegrass, but as long as I have my teeth, no thanks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like bluegrass, but as long as I have my teeth, no thanks.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous Coward</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/10/21/kentucky-rules-the-internet/comment-page-1/#comment-193983</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous Coward</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Oct 2008 02:04:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=10845#comment-193983</guid>
		<description>Kentucky allows horse racing, operates a state lottery w/PowerBall and scratch-offs.  The proceeds largely support political campaigns and freeing up education money from the general fund budget.

Gov. Beshear wants to legalize casinos, and these sites would take money away from them.  If the house is going to take a rake, apparently the house&#039;s house needs something on the order of twice that amount.

The NY attorney general should use this precedent to assume control of KY operated Amazon.com in regards to the sales tax collection issue they have harassed Amazon associates about.  

/ From KY</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kentucky allows horse racing, operates a state lottery w/PowerBall and scratch-offs.  The proceeds largely support political campaigns and freeing up education money from the general fund budget.</p>
<p>Gov. Beshear wants to legalize casinos, and these sites would take money away from them.  If the house is going to take a rake, apparently the house&#8217;s house needs something on the order of twice that amount.</p>
<p>The NY attorney general should use this precedent to assume control of KY operated Amazon.com in regards to the sales tax collection issue they have harassed Amazon associates about.  </p>
<p>/ From KY</p>
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		<title>By: Robert</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/10/21/kentucky-rules-the-internet/comment-page-1/#comment-193971</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Oct 2008 01:15:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=10845#comment-193971</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Radley, I’ve never seen anything on this site that would get you in trouble in Canada. Lior, can you point to any specific posts?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Canada does not allow one to criticize ANY government institution, regardless of where it is located, or how silly it is.  This is punishable by being force fed Tim Hortons donuts and Molson Canadian until you explode.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Radley, I’ve never seen anything on this site that would get you in trouble in Canada. Lior, can you point to any specific posts?</p></blockquote>
<p>Canada does not allow one to criticize ANY government institution, regardless of where it is located, or how silly it is.  This is punishable by being force fed Tim Hortons donuts and Molson Canadian until you explode.</p>
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		<title>By: MikeL</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/10/21/kentucky-rules-the-internet/comment-page-1/#comment-193950</link>
		<dc:creator>MikeL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Oct 2008 23:41:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=10845#comment-193950</guid>
		<description>Radley, I&#039;ve never seen anything on this site that would get you in trouble in Canada.  Lior, can you point to any specific posts?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Radley, I&#8217;ve never seen anything on this site that would get you in trouble in Canada.  Lior, can you point to any specific posts?</p>
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		<title>By: Alex</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/10/21/kentucky-rules-the-internet/comment-page-1/#comment-193944</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Oct 2008 23:05:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=10845#comment-193944</guid>
		<description>&quot;It’s discriminatory because Kentucky allows internet gambling of certain types (mainly horse racing) from companies located in the U.S., but presumably now will not allow it for William Hill from England.&quot;

I could be wrong, but I think all legal betting in Kentucky is parimutuel.  It seems to me that poker is basically parimutuel, but regular sportsbooks, like William Hill, certainly are not.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;It’s discriminatory because Kentucky allows internet gambling of certain types (mainly horse racing) from companies located in the U.S., but presumably now will not allow it for William Hill from England.&#8221;</p>
<p>I could be wrong, but I think all legal betting in Kentucky is parimutuel.  It seems to me that poker is basically parimutuel, but regular sportsbooks, like William Hill, certainly are not.</p>
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		<title>By: z</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/10/21/kentucky-rules-the-internet/comment-page-1/#comment-193942</link>
		<dc:creator>z</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Oct 2008 22:56:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=10845#comment-193942</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;I don’t see how the ruling is discriminatory,&lt;/i&gt;

It&#039;s discriminatory because Kentucky allows internet gambling of certain types (mainly horse racing) from companies located in the U.S., but presumably now will not allow it for William Hill from England.  This is the same argument that Antigua used to win their case against the US with the WTO.  Of course, the US has decided to ignore any WTO ruling they don&#039;t agree with.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>I don’t see how the ruling is discriminatory,</i></p>
<p>It&#8217;s discriminatory because Kentucky allows internet gambling of certain types (mainly horse racing) from companies located in the U.S., but presumably now will not allow it for William Hill from England.  This is the same argument that Antigua used to win their case against the US with the WTO.  Of course, the US has decided to ignore any WTO ruling they don&#8217;t agree with.</p>
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		<title>By: Lior</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/10/21/kentucky-rules-the-internet/comment-page-1/#comment-193910</link>
		<dc:creator>Lior</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Oct 2008 21:25:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=10845#comment-193910</guid>
		<description>Radley beware: your posts violate public policy in Iran and Canada; your domain may be subject to seizure! 

The real problem is that an essential internet corporation, ICANN, is located in the US (specifically, in California) and that sometimes US authorities abuse this situation.  Of course, this is not mere happenstance: the internet is an outgrowth of ARPANET.  Nevertheless, ICANN being situated in the US makes it subject to the whims of US government agencies.  These are commonly driven by internal US considerations rather than global ones.  Thus here, Kentucky (a governmental entity in the US) ordered ICANN to transfer some domains, and ICANN agreed to do this pending a final judgement -- but without fighting the ruling themselves.

I&#039;m not saying that having ICANN headquartered in Canada and subjected to Canadian &quot;anti-discrimination&quot; must-discriminate laws would be better.  Having ICANN be a UN body would be even worse.  Nevertheless it needs to be understood that the Internet is subject to more US control that one naively expects from its global nature.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Radley beware: your posts violate public policy in Iran and Canada; your domain may be subject to seizure! </p>
<p>The real problem is that an essential internet corporation, ICANN, is located in the US (specifically, in California) and that sometimes US authorities abuse this situation.  Of course, this is not mere happenstance: the internet is an outgrowth of ARPANET.  Nevertheless, ICANN being situated in the US makes it subject to the whims of US government agencies.  These are commonly driven by internal US considerations rather than global ones.  Thus here, Kentucky (a governmental entity in the US) ordered ICANN to transfer some domains, and ICANN agreed to do this pending a final judgement &#8212; but without fighting the ruling themselves.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not saying that having ICANN headquartered in Canada and subjected to Canadian &#8220;anti-discrimination&#8221; must-discriminate laws would be better.  Having ICANN be a UN body would be even worse.  Nevertheless it needs to be understood that the Internet is subject to more US control that one naively expects from its global nature.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew Williams</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/10/21/kentucky-rules-the-internet/comment-page-1/#comment-193904</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew Williams</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Oct 2008 21:20:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=10845#comment-193904</guid>
		<description>&quot;I cannot see how the judge’s ruling jibes with the US Constitution’s commerce clause.&quot;

You think a piddling quibble--or a quibbling piddle--like that will STOP them? Christ I hope you&#039;re right.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I cannot see how the judge’s ruling jibes with the US Constitution’s commerce clause.&#8221;</p>
<p>You think a piddling quibble&#8211;or a quibbling piddle&#8211;like that will STOP them? Christ I hope you&#8217;re right.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew Williams</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/10/21/kentucky-rules-the-internet/comment-page-1/#comment-193900</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew Williams</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Oct 2008 21:17:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=10845#comment-193900</guid>
		<description>OMG! Yahoo. Serious. Totally unintentional. And about as funny as the actual &quot;comedian.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OMG! Yahoo. Serious. Totally unintentional. And about as funny as the actual &#8220;comedian.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew Williams</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/10/21/kentucky-rules-the-internet/comment-page-1/#comment-193898</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew Williams</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Oct 2008 21:16:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=10845#comment-193898</guid>
		<description>If any ISPs have their servers in Kentuck, they&#039;d better pull them out NOW before these yahoos get serious.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If any ISPs have their servers in Kentuck, they&#8217;d better pull them out NOW before these yahoos get serious.</p>
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		<title>By: Ben (the other one)</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/10/21/kentucky-rules-the-internet/comment-page-1/#comment-193878</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben (the other one)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Oct 2008 21:00:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=10845#comment-193878</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;I cannot see how the judge’s ruling jibes with the US Constitution’s commerce clause. The ruling means nothing.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I&#039;m not sure I follow.  While the Commerce Clause authorizes Congress to regulate commerce, state legislation that is neither discriminatory against out-of-state business nor preempted by federal law, is constitutional.  I don&#039;t see how the ruling is discriminatory, however unworkable it turns out to be, and it doesn&#039;t seem that there is a basis for arguing federal preemption here (I don&#039;t think any of the defendants raised it).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>I cannot see how the judge’s ruling jibes with the US Constitution’s commerce clause. The ruling means nothing.</p></blockquote>
<p>I&#8217;m not sure I follow.  While the Commerce Clause authorizes Congress to regulate commerce, state legislation that is neither discriminatory against out-of-state business nor preempted by federal law, is constitutional.  I don&#8217;t see how the ruling is discriminatory, however unworkable it turns out to be, and it doesn&#8217;t seem that there is a basis for arguing federal preemption here (I don&#8217;t think any of the defendants raised it).</p>
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		<title>By: chsw</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/10/21/kentucky-rules-the-internet/comment-page-1/#comment-193858</link>
		<dc:creator>chsw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Oct 2008 20:40:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=10845#comment-193858</guid>
		<description>I cannot see how the judge&#039;s ruling jibes with the US Constitution&#039;s commerce clause.  The ruling means nothing.

chsw</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I cannot see how the judge&#8217;s ruling jibes with the US Constitution&#8217;s commerce clause.  The ruling means nothing.</p>
<p>chsw</p>
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		<title>By: Ben (the other one)</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/10/21/kentucky-rules-the-internet/comment-page-1/#comment-193854</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben (the other one)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Oct 2008 20:36:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=10845#comment-193854</guid>
		<description>I read the opinion, whose jurisdiction analysis is not simplistic, though it might be erroneous.  A key fact in the court&#039;s decision is that there are other gambling websites which implement geographic blocking (at the website level, presumably by examining IP addresses).  

I misspoke, above, however: the question is whether &lt;i&gt;in rem&lt;/i&gt; jurisdiction, not personal jurisdiction, exists over the domain names.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I read the opinion, whose jurisdiction analysis is not simplistic, though it might be erroneous.  A key fact in the court&#8217;s decision is that there are other gambling websites which implement geographic blocking (at the website level, presumably by examining IP addresses).  </p>
<p>I misspoke, above, however: the question is whether <i>in rem</i> jurisdiction, not personal jurisdiction, exists over the domain names.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt Moore</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/10/21/kentucky-rules-the-internet/comment-page-1/#comment-193836</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt Moore</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Oct 2008 20:18:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=10845#comment-193836</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Have any of these marching imbeciles actually thought about how they would go about enforcing this law, other than the sites voluntarily blocking all of Kentucky?&lt;/blockquote&gt;They could require the ISPs to block the website by IP address. Basically, just do a dig on all 140 domain names and send the list to the cable and phone company... then they&#039;ll put an ACL blocking traffic to those IPs (nevermind that IPs can and do change or that multiple, unrelated websites can share an IP) on their edge routers.

Don&#039;t laugh, as ridiculous and technically unwieldy as that sounds &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.cdt.org/speech/pennwebblock/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;it&#039;s been tried before&lt;/a&gt;. In that case it was Pennsylvania trying to block access to child porn, and it was found to violate the first amendment... I suspect the same will hold true in Kentucky eventually.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Have any of these marching imbeciles actually thought about how they would go about enforcing this law, other than the sites voluntarily blocking all of Kentucky?</p></blockquote>
<p>They could require the ISPs to block the website by IP address. Basically, just do a dig on all 140 domain names and send the list to the cable and phone company&#8230; then they&#8217;ll put an ACL blocking traffic to those IPs (nevermind that IPs can and do change or that multiple, unrelated websites can share an IP) on their edge routers.</p>
<p>Don&#8217;t laugh, as ridiculous and technically unwieldy as that sounds <a href="http://www.cdt.org/speech/pennwebblock/" rel="nofollow">it&#8217;s been tried before</a>. In that case it was Pennsylvania trying to block access to child porn, and it was found to violate the first amendment&#8230; I suspect the same will hold true in Kentucky eventually.</p>
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		<title>By: Mattocracy</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/10/21/kentucky-rules-the-internet/comment-page-1/#comment-193785</link>
		<dc:creator>Mattocracy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Oct 2008 19:36:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=10845#comment-193785</guid>
		<description>This really makes Kentucky look like a bunch of back woods dumbasses.  Like the rest of the world is going submit to their court rulings.  They might as well make it illegal for space aliens to abduct people and place a world wide ban on unicorn hunting.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This really makes Kentucky look like a bunch of back woods dumbasses.  Like the rest of the world is going submit to their court rulings.  They might as well make it illegal for space aliens to abduct people and place a world wide ban on unicorn hunting.</p>
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		<title>By: z</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/10/21/kentucky-rules-the-internet/comment-page-1/#comment-193761</link>
		<dc:creator>z</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Oct 2008 18:24:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=10845#comment-193761</guid>
		<description>There is already a federal law requiring ISP&#039;s to block access to internet gambling sites.  The unlawful internet gambling act (port act 2006) specifies:
&lt;i&gt;
(c) LIMITATION RELATING TO INTERACTIVE COMPUTER SERVICES.
(1) IN GENERAL.
Relief granted under this section against an interactive computer service shall-
(A) be limited to the removal of, or disabling of access to, an online site violating section 5363, or a hypertext link to an online site violating such section, that resides on a computer server that such service controls or operates, except that the limitation in this subparagraph shall not apply if the service is subject to liability under this section under section 5367;
(B) be available only after notice to the interactive computer service and an opportunity for the service to appear are provided;
(C) not impose any obligation on an interactive computer service to monitor its service or to affirmatively seek facts indicating activity violating this subchapter;
(D) specify the interactive computer service to which it applies; and
(E) specifically identify the location of the online site or hypertext link to be removed or access to which is to be disabled.
&lt;/i&gt;

All ISP&#039;s must remove or disable links to unlawful internet gambling sites.  Move over China, the US censorship has begun.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is already a federal law requiring ISP&#8217;s to block access to internet gambling sites.  The unlawful internet gambling act (port act 2006) specifies:<br />
<i><br />
(c) LIMITATION RELATING TO INTERACTIVE COMPUTER SERVICES.<br />
(1) IN GENERAL.<br />
Relief granted under this section against an interactive computer service shall-<br />
(A) be limited to the removal of, or disabling of access to, an online site violating section 5363, or a hypertext link to an online site violating such section, that resides on a computer server that such service controls or operates, except that the limitation in this subparagraph shall not apply if the service is subject to liability under this section under section 5367;<br />
(B) be available only after notice to the interactive computer service and an opportunity for the service to appear are provided;<br />
(C) not impose any obligation on an interactive computer service to monitor its service or to affirmatively seek facts indicating activity violating this subchapter;<br />
(D) specify the interactive computer service to which it applies; and<br />
(E) specifically identify the location of the online site or hypertext link to be removed or access to which is to be disabled.<br />
</i></p>
<p>All ISP&#8217;s must remove or disable links to unlawful internet gambling sites.  Move over China, the US censorship has begun.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/10/21/kentucky-rules-the-internet/comment-page-1/#comment-193759</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Oct 2008 18:20:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=10845#comment-193759</guid>
		<description>Sometimes a judge makes a correct legal decision that is perplexing when viewed in the light of commercial or social reality. Such decisions serve to highlight problems with the laws on the books. It often takes considerable courage for a judge to issue such a decision, rather than simply waving his or her hands and mandating a reasonable outcome that is not supported by the law.

I&#039;m not saying this is such a case. I haven&#039;t read the opinion. It&#039;s something to consider before calling the judge names, though.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sometimes a judge makes a correct legal decision that is perplexing when viewed in the light of commercial or social reality. Such decisions serve to highlight problems with the laws on the books. It often takes considerable courage for a judge to issue such a decision, rather than simply waving his or her hands and mandating a reasonable outcome that is not supported by the law.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not saying this is such a case. I haven&#8217;t read the opinion. It&#8217;s something to consider before calling the judge names, though.</p>
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		<title>By: ParatrooperJJ</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/10/21/kentucky-rules-the-internet/comment-page-1/#comment-193758</link>
		<dc:creator>ParatrooperJJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Oct 2008 18:09:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=10845#comment-193758</guid>
		<description>&quot;Ruling for the state, Beshear wrote, “The Internet, with all its benefits and&quot;

Judge Wingate wrote that,  not the Governor.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Ruling for the state, Beshear wrote, “The Internet, with all its benefits and&#8221;</p>
<p>Judge Wingate wrote that,  not the Governor.</p>
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