As for the notion that McCain dragged Mr. Wurzelbacher into this, Joe the Plumber’s original question was stated as a hypothetical, and McCain’s discussions regarding “Joe the Plumber” are related to the hypothetical question he raised. If McCain were seeking to have the government hire Joe to repair the Capitol rest rooms, Joe’s plumbing credentials would be a valid concern. But in the actual situation!? Whether or not Joe is personally in a position to take over a business with revenue over $250K (note that Obama himself used the term “revenue”) there are many other people who are in such a position. His own personal credentials have nothing to do with the reasonableness of his hypothetical question.

Look, the Republicans had complete control of the government for six years. So we don’t just need to listen to their ads to find out what they believe–we can look at what they did. Those guys aren’t libertarian. Not even the ones who haven’t been taking part nationalizing half the financial industry, and handing the other half blank checks.

I consider myself a Libertarian spirit, though I’d prefer that the party itself emphasize something other than the right to smoke dope.

Well, there is the entirety of the LP platform, of which the “right to smoke dope” is expressed in only one location. To wit:

1.2 Personal Privacy

We support the protections provided by the Fourth Amendment to be secure in our persons, homes, and property. Only actions that infringe on the rights of others can properly be termed crimes. We favor the repeal of all laws creating “crimes” without victims, such as the use of drugs for medicinal or recreational purposes.

But really, why focus on the positive aspects of the libertarian philosophy when you can focus on the one aspect you dislike?

So true.

I also wish this was an option. if it won, then we could ban those who lost to this option from running again and keep going until someone actually beats “none of the above”.

In my six decades, I have often heard it said there is not a dime’s worth of difference between the two major parties. I would amend that to say it’s now less than one cent’s worth.

Bush has accepted every bloated funding initiative that the Democrats have larded together and, not to be outdone, has larded up his own. His motto seems to have been, “Veto? What’s a veto? We’re just trying to get along here.”

I consider myself a Libertarian spirit, though I’d prefer that the party itself emphasize something other than the right to smoke dope. In truth, I have given up expecting anyone in Washington to behave reasonably. It may be something in the air there.

So all I’m left with is voting against candidates. This year I have the rare pleasure of voting against both of my senators: Durbin and Obama. If I’m still alive four years from now, perhaps there will be someone on the national ticket whom I can actually endorse.

Yes, Republicans deserve to lose but so do Democrats. Unfortunately there is no box for “none of the above.”

OCO

Supercat, please feel free to detail the lengths that Obama has gone to discredit and/or attack Joe. I don’t think you can come up with even one.

As for the media investigation into Joe’s background, frankly, McCain is the one to blame for that. McCain is the one who has thrust Joe into the spotlight – he’s the one who made Joe a central theme to the third debate, and he’s the one who continues to invoke Joe’s name at rallies around the country. If the press have taken an interest in Joe and his background, it’s only because McCain has held Joe up as some sort of example – and that’s an action that’s sure to invite media investigation.

Yes he did. NRA Convention.No guns? Jeebus we’re so screwed..

Now I see him at gun shows pushing GOP flyers.

Let’s start with him.

I had no idea he had a cameo in the last few minutes of Quarantine.

(*) Joe’s his middle name, state licensing procedures require someone to work as an unlicensed apprentice for a few years becoming an independent plumber, etc. But why should any of that be newsworthy?

McCain and many other Republicans deserve to lose. I’ll grant you that 100%. I’d even grant that they probably deserve to live under King Obama’s thumb. The rest of the country, however, does not.

Obama is going to make things worse. McCain is going to make things worse AND start a new war.

3rd Party votes are only wasted as long as people think that way. Times of turmoil have led to the growth of 3rd party status. If both parties move left on fiscal issues fiscally conservative voters may get more serious about a 3rd option.

Economically speaking, yes. Socially speaking? Um… I’m gonna have to disagree with you on that one.

…and a loss for us.

Barr has a LOT of penance to do before he should be believed. Control the opposition, any opposition; make people believe they have a choice; direct energy away from activities that could change things to activities that can be controlled and therefore silenced. These things happen all of the time, there is such a huge incentive to not let people wake up and get MAD AS HELL.

Russell,

My point is Republican beliefs, at some level (and clearly not in the current administration), are more aligned to core Libertatian beliefs than Democrats who are outwardly hostile toward Libertarian beliefs.

Obama couldn’t even discuss a hypothetical question about cutting spending.

Also, in practical ways, Obama’s assault on individual freedoms is almost certain to exceed that of the Bush administration (or McCain) -

gun control – despite what Heller says, you bet!

national service – you think he’s not going to push that? think about the Feds paying millions MORE to groups like ACORN. remember his desire for a civilian corps as large as the military? just imagine, millions of little “community organizers”. pretty soon they’ll be gathering and sharing (ref: Lord of the Rings), but mostly gathering.

how about the “fairness doctrine”? What’s that you say? You’ll find out when Pelosi and company bring it back and APPLY IT TO THE INTERNET.

The following sums it up pretty nicely (from http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/page/2/)

Libertarians/Conservatives like “Jay” and myself underestimate liberals/progressives — and what we’re guilty of is projection. But when we’re drunk and honest, we have to admit: We’re effing pikers. To restate more plainly: We don’t want power, and don’t know how to wield it. We’re pikers.

Progressives have no such qualms. Given power, they’ll take more and they’ll exercise it ruthlessly. Look at the Democrats in Congress these last two years. In not even 24 months, they’ve sunk to depths it took the Republican Congress six or more years to sink to. Their unpopularity levels are even worse than the Republicans’ in 2006. And what will happen in November? The Democrats will win seats — because they know how to wield their power to deliver the goods to please their corrupt, greedy, grabby, needy base.

—————-
Obama and the Democrats may never give up power after this election. I for one would rather take the chance that a McCain administration could hold the line while a real conservative movement comes back.

I’ll say it again. I’m not certain America will survive an Obama presidency.

If he truly and honestly believe what he did for 8 years in Congress and as a DA was all wrong, good for him. And he will probably receive my vote this year anyway (hell, I voted for Badnarik). He just has A LOT of pennance to do before he is “believeable”. A lot…

I think right now, libertarians should be reaching out to the disenfranchised conservative voters who, with all due respect, probably aren’t conservative in any shape or form, aside from calling themselves such a name.

While I agree with your concern about four years of Obama, my problem is most of my fears regarding Obama are equally applicable to McCain. Increased federal spending, government intervention abroad, government intervention in our economy (including trade restrictions), a further erosion of civil liberties… McCain hasn’t done anything to make me think he’ll be better in any of these areas than Obama. Frankly, if he did I think you’d see way more McCain love from Agitator commentors, myself included.