<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Ryan Frederick Update</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.theagitator.com/2008/10/11/ryan-frederick-update-2/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/10/11/ryan-frederick-update-2/</link>
	<description>It rankles me when somebody tries to tell somebody what to do.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 10 Feb 2012 19:07:30 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: Green</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/10/11/ryan-frederick-update-2/comment-page-1/#comment-190235</link>
		<dc:creator>Green</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Oct 2008 15:28:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=10793#comment-190235</guid>
		<description>Obviously Frederick did not &quot;have a plan&quot;. Obviously the SWAT team did, and a very bad one. If Frederick does not take a plea ,he will walk, unless the justice system can railroad him. If Frederick does not walk ,then none of us are safe in our homes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Obviously Frederick did not &#8220;have a plan&#8221;. Obviously the SWAT team did, and a very bad one. If Frederick does not take a plea ,he will walk, unless the justice system can railroad him. If Frederick does not walk ,then none of us are safe in our homes.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: SJE</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/10/11/ryan-frederick-update-2/comment-page-1/#comment-190225</link>
		<dc:creator>SJE</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Oct 2008 14:59:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=10793#comment-190225</guid>
		<description>Re: &quot;how can the prosecution use the information that Frederick called Turnbull and threatened the police? Unless the conversation was recorded and can be played back for the court, isn’t it just hearsay?&quot;

1.  The phone records are facts, and not hearsay.  Who did the calling can be inferred.
2. What they spoke about is not hearsay if at least one party to the actual conversation is willing testify and is subject to cross examination.  Thus, Turnbull can get on the stand and recount the conversation, but only if Frederick&#039;s lawyer can cross-examine Turnbull to determine truthfulness etc.  T

However, it would be hearsay for the police to say what Turnbull told them that Frederick said, if used to prosecute Frederick.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: &#8220;how can the prosecution use the information that Frederick called Turnbull and threatened the police? Unless the conversation was recorded and can be played back for the court, isn’t it just hearsay?&#8221;</p>
<p>1.  The phone records are facts, and not hearsay.  Who did the calling can be inferred.<br />
2. What they spoke about is not hearsay if at least one party to the actual conversation is willing testify and is subject to cross examination.  Thus, Turnbull can get on the stand and recount the conversation, but only if Frederick&#8217;s lawyer can cross-examine Turnbull to determine truthfulness etc.  T</p>
<p>However, it would be hearsay for the police to say what Turnbull told them that Frederick said, if used to prosecute Frederick.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: freedomfan</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/10/11/ryan-frederick-update-2/comment-page-1/#comment-190219</link>
		<dc:creator>freedomfan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Oct 2008 14:15:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=10793#comment-190219</guid>
		<description>As mentioned before, it&#039;ll be a shame if Frederick had more than a trivial amount of pot in his garage. If the prosecution can paint him as a &quot;cop-killing drug-dealer&quot;, his chances of getting railroaded here have gone way up, no matter how badly the police screwed the pooch on this one.

And, it&#039;s more the shame because of how flimsy the police account of this actually sounds. I&#039;ve mentioned &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.theagitator.com/2008/09/10/bombshells-in-the-frederick-case/#comment-179904&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;before&lt;/a&gt; how the prosecutor is pushing a very weak story. The prosecution’s basic narrative here is that Ryan Frederick is so stupid that (remember that this is &lt;em&gt;the prosecution&#039;s&lt;/em&gt; allegation) -

 * Frederick knew in advance that the police were coming to raid his “grow operation” and that he “had a plan” for them.
 * Frederick announced that plan to to people who didn&#039;t like him personally and that he knew to be police informants. (Apparently, letting the police know that he &lt;em&gt;had&lt;/em&gt; a plan was part of the plan. Very devious.)
 * Frederick cleaned out his alleged grow operation. At this point, all the police had on him was the word of two criminals.
 * Frederick is gainfully employed and engaged to be married and there is no evidence that he has a death wish. But, after making sure there was no evidence against him, he planned to lay in wait to engage in a suicidal gunfight with armed police. Nevermind that he was only facing charges for a small-time grow operation that likely couldn’t be proven anyway. And nevermind that a single person pointing a gun at several cops is more dangerous than pointing it at his own head. Even if no one had actually been hurt, it would result in the harshest possible prosecution.
 * The police, &lt;em&gt;knowing that he knew they were coming&lt;/em&gt;, still carried out their nighttime raid against someone against whom they were likely to find no evidence and who they believe was laying in wait. All that instead of peaceably picking him up en route to work or the grocery store.
 * After shooting one cop, Frederick suddenly decides to give up willingly.

If the prosecution’s account were true, Frederick’s lawyer would have a pretty tight case that Frederick lacks mental competence to stand trial, because no one who isn’t an outright moron would execute such a plan.

And, all that is aside from other factors such as inconsistencies in where the police say they were when shots were fired; how little they actually found at the raid; potential evidence tampering at the scene with removed bullet slugs; etc. Add that to the issues of illegal police evidence gathering and warrant issues and Ryan Frederick really should have gotten this case dismissed. It seems certain that, if the people who broke through his door that night had been members of a different group, &lt;em&gt;they&lt;/em&gt; would be on trial right now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As mentioned before, it&#8217;ll be a shame if Frederick had more than a trivial amount of pot in his garage. If the prosecution can paint him as a &#8220;cop-killing drug-dealer&#8221;, his chances of getting railroaded here have gone way up, no matter how badly the police screwed the pooch on this one.</p>
<p>And, it&#8217;s more the shame because of how flimsy the police account of this actually sounds. I&#8217;ve mentioned <a href="http://www.theagitator.com/2008/09/10/bombshells-in-the-frederick-case/#comment-179904" rel="nofollow">before</a> how the prosecutor is pushing a very weak story. The prosecution’s basic narrative here is that Ryan Frederick is so stupid that (remember that this is <em>the prosecution&#8217;s</em> allegation) -</p>
<p> * Frederick knew in advance that the police were coming to raid his “grow operation” and that he “had a plan” for them.<br />
 * Frederick announced that plan to to people who didn&#8217;t like him personally and that he knew to be police informants. (Apparently, letting the police know that he <em>had</em> a plan was part of the plan. Very devious.)<br />
 * Frederick cleaned out his alleged grow operation. At this point, all the police had on him was the word of two criminals.<br />
 * Frederick is gainfully employed and engaged to be married and there is no evidence that he has a death wish. But, after making sure there was no evidence against him, he planned to lay in wait to engage in a suicidal gunfight with armed police. Nevermind that he was only facing charges for a small-time grow operation that likely couldn’t be proven anyway. And nevermind that a single person pointing a gun at several cops is more dangerous than pointing it at his own head. Even if no one had actually been hurt, it would result in the harshest possible prosecution.<br />
 * The police, <em>knowing that he knew they were coming</em>, still carried out their nighttime raid against someone against whom they were likely to find no evidence and who they believe was laying in wait. All that instead of peaceably picking him up en route to work or the grocery store.<br />
 * After shooting one cop, Frederick suddenly decides to give up willingly.</p>
<p>If the prosecution’s account were true, Frederick’s lawyer would have a pretty tight case that Frederick lacks mental competence to stand trial, because no one who isn’t an outright moron would execute such a plan.</p>
<p>And, all that is aside from other factors such as inconsistencies in where the police say they were when shots were fired; how little they actually found at the raid; potential evidence tampering at the scene with removed bullet slugs; etc. Add that to the issues of illegal police evidence gathering and warrant issues and Ryan Frederick really should have gotten this case dismissed. It seems certain that, if the people who broke through his door that night had been members of a different group, <em>they</em> would be on trial right now.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Blaze Miskulin</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/10/11/ryan-frederick-update-2/comment-page-1/#comment-189969</link>
		<dc:creator>Blaze Miskulin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Oct 2008 19:26:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=10793#comment-189969</guid>
		<description>Even if true, how can the prosecution use the information that Frederick called Turnbull and threatened the police?  Unless the conversation was recorded and can be played back for the court, isn&#039;t it just hearsay?

I&#039;m not a lawyer, so I don&#039;t know the rules, but on its face it seems to be fairly clearly inadmissible.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Even if true, how can the prosecution use the information that Frederick called Turnbull and threatened the police?  Unless the conversation was recorded and can be played back for the court, isn&#8217;t it just hearsay?</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not a lawyer, so I don&#8217;t know the rules, but on its face it seems to be fairly clearly inadmissible.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Grant Gould</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/10/11/ryan-frederick-update-2/comment-page-1/#comment-189941</link>
		<dc:creator>Grant Gould</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Oct 2008 17:13:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=10793#comment-189941</guid>
		<description>You write:  &lt;i&gt;...it’s time for a federal investigation. We aren’t going to know what actually happened in this case until Turnbull and Steven are given immunity, and can speak freely without fear of Chesapeake authorities coming down on them for what they say.&lt;/i&gt;

Is it really the case that the feds can grant immunity against state prosecution?  I had thought federal investigations could only grant immunity against future &lt;i&gt;federal&lt;/i&gt; prosecution, but that a federal immunity grant couldn&#039;t bind state or local prosecutors.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You write:  <i>&#8230;it’s time for a federal investigation. We aren’t going to know what actually happened in this case until Turnbull and Steven are given immunity, and can speak freely without fear of Chesapeake authorities coming down on them for what they say.</i></p>
<p>Is it really the case that the feds can grant immunity against state prosecution?  I had thought federal investigations could only grant immunity against future <i>federal</i> prosecution, but that a federal immunity grant couldn&#8217;t bind state or local prosecutors.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

